Well, Now Brett Kavanaugh Can Face His Accuser

[redwood66]

You stated or implied that you wondered why democrats don't believe Kavanaugh and his stating it's roe v wade is the precedent.

So I don't believe anything he says. What do you mean by demeanor? if you mean his frothing, and crying? well I just thought he was a typical man/boy/baby, but his words, his partisan words stuck with me. It would have mattered a lot to me if he'd been kind, quiet and concerned and open, but wishes aren't horses.

I was gonna call you out but sinceyou posted to me, I gotta tell you, You again made me think (not something I do often ) I thought very heavily on what you said to Deb about her views were not necessarily mainstream.. and I thought What!??? that can't be, but I thought and thought about it and then I had to ask myself the dreaded question: Am I not mainstream? So I then went to the Oracle, my husband, and we discussed it at length, then I went to Pew to do a bunch of reading, and I came to the realization that I am not mainstream I am not far from mainstream, here I thought I was the savior of the downtrodden, poor etc and that everyone else to a larger or lesser degree felt the same and that right wing views were out of step, well far right wing is out of step, not mainstream right, everything I read is that people want abortion rights, they want a strong military, they want to help the lesser (more and less depending on your side of the divide).. I wasn't discouraged! but I was shocked. So I plan to do more reading. so thanks again for opening my eyes.. this is why forums are good and people pass info back and forth. I'm always better for it..

This makes me very happy. It was my point to Deb that it is a trap to think that most everyone else thinks like you. This keeps people from actually looking outside their small circle which very likely is loaded with confirmation bias. You and I are probably not that far apart until on quite a number of things, but we are probably far apart on others.

Oh and I didn't wonder why they didn't believe Kavanaugh, I know they don't.

 

[AGBF]

@the_ mother_thing , You are literally the only one I’ve heard call a woman a feminist since the 1970’s. Back then the term was usually used by a man who was upset when a woman was not afraid to stand up to them in business. Woman did so much back then to pave the way for today’s wowen. You act as though it is a huge insult to be called a feminist.

She is the only woman I have heard use the word "feminist" preceded by negative adjectives since the 1970's when women were still defending the right of women to be unequal. I still hear men use it today, though, also its alternate form "femi-nazi".

 

[Calliecake]

CallieCake, do young people today not use the word feminist? Serious question. I don't spend much time with people in their twenties - no kids and I work with the elderly - so is it an old-fashioned word to millennials?

To me, being a feminist means equal pay for equal work, control over your own body, the right to say "no" at all times, and not having to deal with attacks or harassment. In other words, enjoying the same privileges, respect, and ease in the world that men do. Other things, too, but that's a broad definition of what the term means to me. It's hard to imagine any woman who wouldn't want those things.

I spent five hours with four of my nieces yesterday. I’ve never heard them ever say the word feminist. I think it’s an old fashioned word. These young women have grown up in a world where women have abortion rights. They are all for equal pay rights. None of them were happy about Kavanaugh being appointed yesterday. They only talked about about it for 5 minutes but their opinions were very well known. I can’t see the majority of this generation jumping on the Trump train. They are vocal about not approving of him and his racist views. It gives me hope for the future.

 

[AGBF]

Everyone keeps posting about how red needed to tell me I was not a mainstream thinker. Did anyone read my response to her? My point to red was that I know I am not a mainstream thinker. I did not need you to tell me I am not a "mainstream" thinker, red. I am far left of center. I am not without self-awareness. Sheesh!

AGBF

 

[jaaron]

Sure it does because I have read article after article and many posts here that most democrats don't believe him when he says that it is settled law.
As far as Franken, take a look at the pic above and he also confessed. Big difference.

1.
Q: If the Republicans want to prove it was about R v W, why not act like the bigger party (morally) and say, ok, there are some question marks about Kavanaugh's past. We don't believe they're the truth, but we see that pushing him through confirmation could be extremely polarising. We'll nominate another Federalist Society pick without a smudge to his/her name, but warning, he/she is even more likely to overturn R v W. If the Democrats then acted in the same way, it would prove their point.
A: The reason they didn't do this is that having tied their boats to the criminal buffoon in the White House, they know they sink or swim with him at this point (see Lindsay Graham, formerly somewhat repellent but sane, as exhibit A). And the criminal buffoon in the White House very badly wanted Kavanaugh because of his unusual and very convenient take on executive privilege.

2. Franken did not confess. He said it was a joke, albeit a poorly conceived one and apologised. Nothing that came out against him carried any more weight than what has come out against either Kavanaugh or Trump. That said, while I like Franken's politics, and I wished the Democrats had stood behind him and called for an investigation, I also agreed that it would be distracting and potentially hypocritical--it was at the very least an unpleasant and misogynistic joke--and supported his decision to resign.

 

[redwood66]

Everyone keeps posting about how red needed to tell me I was not a mainstream thinker. Did anyone read my response to her? My point to red was that I know I am not a mainstream thinker. I did not need you to tell me I am not a "mainstream" thinker, red. I am far left of center. I am not without self-awareness. Sheesh!

AGBF

I give up at this point trying to explain.

 

[yssie]

1.
Q: If the Republicans want to prove it was about R v W, why not act like the bigger party (morally) and say, ok, there are some question marks about Kavanaugh's past. We don't believe they're the truth, but we see that pushing him through confirmation could be extremely polarising. We'll nominate another Federalist Society pick without a smudge to his/her name, but warning, he/she is even more likely to overturn R v W. If the Democrats then acted in the same way, it would prove their point.
A: The reason they didn't do this is that having tied their boats to the criminal buffoon in the White House, they know they sink or swim with him at this point (see Lindsay Graham, formerly somewhat repellent but sane, as exhibit A). And the criminal buffoon in the White House very badly wanted Kavanaugh because of his unusual and very convenient take on executive privilege.

2. Franken did not confess. He said it was a joke, albeit a poorly conceived one and apologised. Nothing that came out against him carried any more weight than what has come out against either Kavanaugh or Trump. That said, while I like Franken's politics, and I wished the Democrats had stood behind him and called for an investigation, I also agreed that it would be distracting and potentially hypocritical--it was at the very least an unpleasant and misogynistic joke--and supported his decision to resign.

 

[the_mother_thing]

@Calliecake & @AGBF If you think I feel negatively toward feminism, let me remove all doubt for you - I do. I don't subscribe to feminism, I don't want other women (especially extreme, man-hating, stereotyping, hypocritical feminists) or anyone else speaking for me. I don't support 'your' feminist views, and quite frankly, I think they end up hurting more than helping the very groups of women claimed to be trying to help.

There are some of us women who like their men to actually be men vs some feminine version of a man. And that definition of a man doesn't mean what feminists describe them as. And if you really & truly were all for women having choices and respecting those choices, you'd be just as supportive of those like me who choose NOT to wear a pink vagina hat and belittle men.

We don't need a hashtag or some movement to validate our views or legitimize our feelings. We own them and we own our actions vs seeking out someone to blame. Believe you me, we ARE strong, we ARE vocal, and we VOTE as well.

 

[AGBF]

@Calliecake & @AGBF If you think I feel negatively toward feminism, let me remove all doubt for you - I do. I don't subscribe to feminism, I don't want other women (especially extreme, man-hating, stereotyping, hypocritical feminists) or anyone else speaking for me. I don't support 'your' feminist views, and quite frankly, I think they end up hurting more than helping the very groups of women claimed to be trying to help.

There are some of us women who like their men to actually be men vs some feminine version of a man. And that definition of a man doesn't mean what feminists describe them as. And if you really & truly were all for women having choices and respecting those choices, you'd be just as supportive of those like me who choose NOT to wear a pink vagina hat and belittle men.

We don't need a hashtag or some movement to validate our views or legitimize our feelings. We own them and we own our actions vs seeking out someone to blame. Believe you me, we ARE strong, we ARE vocal, and we VOTE as well.

What a sneering post! I like real men, not "a feminine version of a man". You must be really insecure to have to claim you're the only woman to have a "real man". You don't know me or "my" men. I don't wear a "pink vagina hat" or belittle men who do not deserve belittling. By the way, Trump deserves it.

AGBF

 

[OboeGal]

What a sneering post! I like real men, not "a feminine version of a man". You must be really insecure to have to claim you're the only woman to have a "real man". You don't know me or "my" men. I don't wear a "pink vagina hat" or belittle men who do not deserve belittling. By the way, Trump deserves it.

AGBF

Hear, hear!

 

[Matata]

(especially extreme, man-hating, stereotyping, hypocritical feminists)

What's it called again when someone who says it's wrong to stereotype engages in stereotyping and with a butt load of righteous indignation points out every time others engage in the wrong behavior? Hypocrisy. Just another one of your many charming attributes.

 

[cmd2014]

@Calliecake & @AGBF If you think I feel negatively toward feminism, let me remove all doubt for you - I do. I don't subscribe to feminism, I don't want other women (especially extreme, man-hating, stereotyping, hypocritical feminists) or anyone else speaking for me. I don't support 'your' feminist views, and quite frankly, I think they end up hurting more than helping the very groups of women claimed to be trying to help.

There are some of us women who like their men to actually be men vs some feminine version of a man. And that definition of a man doesn't mean what feminists describe them as. And if you really & truly were all for women having choices and respecting those choices, you'd be just as supportive of those like me who choose NOT to wear a pink vagina hat and belittle men.

We don't need a hashtag or some movement to validate our views or legitimize our feelings. We own them and we own our actions vs seeking out someone to blame. Believe you me, we ARE strong, we ARE vocal, and we VOTE as well.

Wait, you are allowed to vote because of feminists. Only they were called suffragettes back then. You have property rights because of feminists (because at one point women were considered property). You have agency over your life because of feminists (because as property, men at one point had complete control over where you’d live, whether you ate, whether and who you married, whether or not you were locked away somewhere, and they had the full right to beat you as they saw fit to discipline you if they were unhappy with you). You have the right to carry money, open a bank account, have your own credit card because of feminism (because at one point women were not allowed to do any of these things). You have custody rights to your children because of feminists (because at one point children were the property of men and men took sole custody of the children in divorce). You have the right to work because of feminism. You have the right to drive because of feminism. You have the right to ask for and be granted a divorce because of feminism (because that was also once the sole purview of men). You have the right to say no to sex because of feminism (because marital rape was not illegal at one point and sex on demand was considered a wife’s ‘duties’). You were taught to read because of feminism (rather than sewing, dancing, painting, and other ‘womanly arts’). Women are allowed into university because of feminism, and law school, and medical school. Because this was not always the case. We don’t have to be nurses or teachers only until we get married. And I don’t know these man hating, stereotyping feminists you keep talking about. Women who believe in equal pay, equal rights, and gender equality are not man hating lesbians if that’s what you mean. I love men. I’m married to one. I have friends and colleagues who are men (and fellow feminists, if we define this by being invested in gender equality), and no, my husband is not freaked out when I’m alone with them. Nor are they emasculated wimpy *effeminate* men if that’s what you are implying. Feminists don’t care if you choose to be a homemaker or a stay at home mom. We fought for the right to be able to make that choice. We don’t care if you do or don’t use birth control (just don’t tell me whether or not I can, or try to bar it from being covered under my prescription drug plan - you know, the one that I *earn* through being employed, just like men do when they expect their prescription drugs to be covered). We don’t care what type of men you like. No one’s rights are being taken away just because women ask for equality under the law. So I’m not sure where all your rage comes from.

 

[AGBF]

As I have said before: "feminism" is not a dirty word. "Feminism" is the radical notion that women are human beings. Feminists believe in sisterhood, but feminists do not hate men. Feminists believe that a woman's safety is more important than men's feelings.



AGBF

 

[the_mother_thing]

What a sneering post! I like real men, not "a feminine version of a man". You must be really insecure to have to claim you're the only woman to have a "real man". You don't know me or "my" men. I don't wear a "pink vagina hat" or belittle men who do not deserve belittling. By the way, Trump deserves it.

AGBF

I didn't say you personally. That's your inference. And I didn't say I am the only woman. Again, your inference. Youhave/do belittle men whom you do not know personally, who simply disagree with your philosophy. I don't agree with that. That's my prerogative.

 

[AGBF]

I didn't say you personally. That's your inference. And I didn't say I am the only woman. Again, your inference. Youhave/do belittle men whom you do not know personally, who simply disagree with your philosophy. I don't agree with that. That's my prerogative.

Oh, no! I have actually said something negative about a man I know personally? How shocking! BTW, who?

 

[Calliecake]

@the_mother_thing,

I too would like to hear more about these men hating stereotype feminists?

I also would like to know what your definition of a real man is?

 

[JPie]

Wait, you are allowed to vote because of feminists. Only they were called suffragettes back then. You have property rights because of feminists (because at one point women were considered property). You have agency over your life because of feminists (because as property, men at one point had complete control over where you’d live, whether you ate, whether and who you married, whether or not you were locked away somewhere, and they had the full right to beat you as they saw fit to discipline you if they were unhappy with you). You have the right to carry money, open a bank account, have your own credit card because of feminism (because at one point women were not allowed to do any of these things). You have custody rights to your children because of feminists (because at one point children were the property of men and men took sole custody of the children in divorce). You have the right to work because of feminism. You have the right to drive because of feminism. You have the right to ask for and be granted a divorce because of feminism (because that was also once the sole purview of men). You have the right to say no to sex because of feminism (because marital rape was not illegal at one point and sex on demand was considered a wife’s ‘duties’). You were taught to read because of feminism (rather than sewing, dancing, painting, and other ‘womanly arts’). Women are allowed into university because of feminism, and law school, and medical school. Because this was not always the case. We don’t have to be nurses or teachers only until we get married. And I don’t know these man hating, stereotyping feminists you keep talking about. Women who believe in equal pay, equal rights, and gender equality are not man hating lesbians if that’s what you mean. I love men. I’m married to one. I have friends and colleagues who are men (and fellow feminists, if we define this by being invested in gender equality), and no, my husband is not freaked out when I’m alone with them. Nor are they emasculated wimpy *effeminate* men if that’s what you are implying. Feminists don’t care if you choose to be a homemaker or a stay at home mom. We fought for the right to be able to make that choice. We don’t care if you do or don’t use birth control (just don’t tell me whether or not I can, or try to bar it from being covered under my prescription drug plan - you know, the one that I *earn* through being employed, just like men do when they expect their prescription drugs to be covered). We don’t care what type of men you like. No one’s rights are being taken away just because women ask for equality under the law. So I’m not sure where all your rage comes from.

I think I love you.

 

[AGBF]

Wait. I misread. I disagree with men I don't know? That is even more appalling! My grad school professors would skin me alive for daring to have opinions!

 

[the_mother_thing]

What's it called again when someone who says it's wrong to stereotype engages in stereotyping and with a butt load of righteous indignation points out every time others engage in the wrong behavior? Hypocrisy. Just another one of your many charming attributes.

I'm talking about a movement; not a gender, race, orientation, ethnicity, etc. "Feminism" isn't a protected class, except by dems.

 

[the_mother_thing]

@the_mother_thing,

I too would like to hear more about these men hating stereotype feminists?

I also like to know what your definition of a real man is?

Re-read this thread without the rose-colored glasses.

 

[Matata]

Perhaps we have to put this disclaimer in all our posts:
We recognize that: the other side does/did it too;
there are extreme examples of human behavior in all groups;
it is unreasonable to expect every human on the planet to act civilly all the time;
no one has yet achieved perfection.

It would save a lot of time not having to read through the endless repetition of logical fallacies that pepper some posters' responses when emotion rules over critical thinking.

 

[OreoRosies86]

Just catching up on here and the White Privilege thread. I have learned so much tonight and yet I have been surprised by absolutely none of it!

 

[OboeGal]

I think I love you.

I think I love her, too!!

 

[Matata]

I'm talking about a movement; not a gender, race, orientation, ethnicity, etc. "Feminism" isn't a protected class, except by dems.

The movement you are referring to is made up of people whom you have painted with a broad brush ("especially extreme, man-hating, stereotyping, hypocritical feminists") unless the movement you are referring to is a BM which doesn't necessarily require a human and is shitty nonetheless.

 

[House Cat]

A strong man isn’t threatened by a feminist. As a matter of fact, he’s a feminist too.

A small man feels the need to withhold rights from others. A weak woman supports this kind of man.

 

[soxfan]

A strong man isn’t threatened by a feminist. As a matter of fact, he’s a feminist too.

A small man feels the need to withhold rights from others. A weak woman supports this kind of man.

Describes my husband to a T. He is sickened by all of this. He is a father to a boy and a girl.

My male friends with their giant trucks with two flags hanging off the back, Trump-love spewing, woman hating views are ALL married to women who are just absolutely pathetic. They are ignorant, subservient, and negative. They regurgitate ANYTHING their "man" says.

When their men aren't around, they CONSTANTLY tell me how much they love my husband. And I have a sneaking suspicion that it's not only how he looks, but how he treats women

Confidence is silent. Insecurities are loud. See: Mitch McConnell, Lindsey Graham, Brett Kavanaugh.

 

[soxfan]

Also....

 

[telephone89]

Wait, you are allowed to vote because of feminists. Only they were called suffragettes back then. You have property rights because of feminists (because at one point women were considered property). You have agency over your life because of feminists (because as property, men at one point had complete control over where you’d live, whether you ate, whether and who you married, whether or not you were locked away somewhere, and they had the full right to beat you as they saw fit to discipline you if they were unhappy with you). You have the right to carry money, open a bank account, have your own credit card because of feminism (because at one point women were not allowed to do any of these things). You have custody rights to your children because of feminists (because at one point children were the property of men and men took sole custody of the children in divorce). You have the right to work because of feminism. You have the right to drive because of feminism. You have the right to ask for and be granted a divorce because of feminism (because that was also once the sole purview of men). You have the right to say no to sex because of feminism (because marital rape was not illegal at one point and sex on demand was considered a wife’s ‘duties’). You were taught to read because of feminism (rather than sewing, dancing, painting, and other ‘womanly arts’). Women are allowed into university because of feminism, and law school, and medical school. Because this was not always the case. We don’t have to be nurses or teachers only until we get married. And I don’t know these man hating, stereotyping feminists you keep talking about. Women who believe in equal pay, equal rights, and gender equality are not man hating lesbians if that’s what you mean. I love men. I’m married to one. I have friends and colleagues who are men (and fellow feminists, if we define this by being invested in gender equality), and no, my husband is not freaked out when I’m alone with them. Nor are they emasculated wimpy *effeminate* men if that’s what you are implying. Feminists don’t care if you choose to be a homemaker or a stay at home mom. We fought for the right to be able to make that choice. We don’t care if you do or don’t use birth control (just don’t tell me whether or not I can, or try to bar it from being covered under my prescription drug plan - you know, the one that I *earn* through being employed, just like men do when they expect their prescription drugs to be covered). We don’t care what type of men you like. No one’s rights are being taken away just because women ask for equality under the law. So I’m not sure where all your rage comes from.

 

[monarch64]

 

[lovedogs]

Reminder that the ignore button exists and is glorious. I see something upset everyone, but happily I never saw it

And if I want to read nonsense, I have to press the "show ignored" button.

It's seriously the greatest PS invention ever.