Using Transferwise for payments to overseas IG sellers

[fredflintstone]

So did you get PayPal pre-approval when you sold stones?

In the 1000's of stones, I sold I had 3 claims against me. I never filed one against another person. In these claims Paypal withheld from my account the sum of the invoice while they were under arbitration.

One was from a customer who filed a claim on a $4500.00 Spinel against me from Taiwan, before he even sent it back! PayPal held that money in limbo from my account until the stone returned and automatically deducted it from my account once returned. Let me say, I was more than happy to refund his money, but some customers are real joys! LOL!

The other the shipping company said the stone was delivered. The customer filed a claim, claiming he did not get it. I go by what the shipping courier says. I countered claimed and won as the shipping company claimed delivery. Then, the customer filed a claim again and Paypal again withheld the money. It turned out that the shipping company screwed up the whole thing. Finally delivered the stone and the customer was so mad he refused delivery and when the stone came back to me, Paypal automatically refunded his money.

That is the way it works.

The above chart does not mean a thing in my experience. A invoice is a legal and binding contract. Paypal protects both seller and buyer. Both cannot win a case, so you will always have someone who cries wolf, when it turns out to be a Chihuahua.

 

[icy_jade]

The above chart does not mean a thing in my experience. A invoice is a legal and binding contract. Paypal protects both seller and buyer. Both cannot win a case, so you will always have someone who cries wolf, when it turns out to be a Chihuahua.

I was actually more interested in the pre-approval process and how easy it would be to get approval... did your sales predate the pre-approval clauses?

The chart or rather the term means that PayPal can legally choose not to enforce anything as other posters have stated in the other thread. So I think it does mean something.

 

[fredflintstone]

I have never seen that chart on Paypal. In the 15 years or so I used it. I sent 1000's of invoices. None were ever preapproved, because they were already paid and a binding contract. I'd like to see the link to this on the official Paypal site.

 

[fredflintstone]

Here is the official Paypal customer protection:

PayPal Purchase Protection for Buyers | PayPal US

PayPal Purchase Protection gives buyers peace of mind while they shop. Find out which purchases are eligible and more, here.

www.paypal.com

 

[fredflintstone]

I found the link. First of all it was not even a official Paypal link, it was Facebook. It does not even exist anymore, and is is most likely bogus in the first place. Do not believe everything you read second, third, fourth hand.

Here is the link:

https://www.facebook.com/PayPalUSA/posts/10159159126964573

 

[icy_jade]

I found the link. First of all it was not even a official Paypal link, it was Facebook. It does not even exist anymore, and is is most likely bogus in the first place. Do not believe everything you read second, third, fourth hand.

Here is the link:

https://www.facebook.com/PayPalUSA/posts/10159159126964573

https://www.reddit.com/r/Shinypreciousgems/comments/djy6or

I think some PS-ers have bought from mvmgems. Personally I don’t believe it is a bogus post.

I applied the same logic u quoted hence did some google search and reading about PayPal protection. An eBay guide mentioned protection using PayPal on eBay but up to $1000 only (not sure how true since didn’t see the limit on PayPal terms). There are also other info/discussions on (no) protection for customized items (which applies to jewelry) etc.

Whatever it is and whoever is reading this, pls do your own research before splashing out hundreds of extra dollars using PayPal for purchases.

Also, note that PayPal terms have changed over the years. What was true years ago may not apply today. Buyers beware.

 

[fredflintstone]

Why do you keep arguing?

I was in the trade 40 years. Used Paypal 1000's of times sending invoices and paying invoices. Had PayPal withhold $4500.00 from my account as I wrote above. That is quite a bit more than $1000.00. LOL! Plus e bay protects it sellers and buyers too. Though there is always someone who feels the got the short end of the stick.

Had a Paypal account since the early 2000's. Still have one.

You don't believe it is a bogus post, but you cannot prove it is not either.

I'm here relating years of experience with Paypal as a gemstone dealer and associations with too many gemstone dealers who use Paypal to even try to count.

I have no reason to lie about it. I would imagine from what I gather your experience with Paypal is extremely limited or you feel you have been wronged by them. If you have, I'm sorry, but I'm not going to continue this argument because to be honest (my biggest fault) your points are moot and I feel there is no concrete reason to continue this so called discussion.

Have a good night.

 

[corundumafficionado]

I

Why do you keep arguing?

I was in the trade 40 years. Used Paypal 1000's of times sending invoices and paying invoices. Had PayPal withhold $4500.00 from my account as I wrote above. That is quite a bit more than $1000.00. LOL! Plus e bay protects it sellers and buyers too. Though there is always someone who feels the got the short end of the stick.

Had a Paypal account since the early 2000's. Still have one.

You don't believe it is a bogus post, but you cannot prove it is not either.

I'm here relating years of experience with Paypal as a gemstone dealer and associations with too many gemstone dealers who use Paypal to even try to count.

I have no reason to lie about it. I would imagine from what I gather your experience with Paypal is extremely limited or you feel you have been wronged by them. If you have, I'm sorry, but I'm not going to continue this argument because to be honest (my biggest fault) your points are moot and I feel there is no concrete reason to continue this so called discussion.

Have a good night.

I know Mvmgems well and spoke to her throughout this issue-her post isn't bogus. It's possible to have very negative outlier experiences with a company like Paypal and those instances should be considered as part of risk assessment. Just because it didn't happen to you doesn't mean it didn't happen.

 

[icy_jade]

Just because it didn't happen to you doesn't mean it didn't happen.

@fredflintstone because of this. Because people have the right to make informed decisions. Because I feel like it and I can.

P.s. bolded above as I think that’s absolutely important. Else I wouldn’t waste time arguing with people on this forum

 

[micellular]

Hi, this is Michelle of mvmgems. The account is absolutely true, and I'm happy to upload proof to another image hosting site. It should still be available on Facebook under this link. I've double checked that the permissions are publicly accessible, and it includes 22 photos/screenshots of our interactions.

That being said, as a very small fry I still use Paypal as a buyer and seller because of how dominant it is. I have used Transferwise about half a dozen times mostly as buyer to trusted vendors with no issues so far .

I'm far from the only person, new or established, to have issues with Paypal. L Allen Brown of All That Glitters as also stopped using them after 20 years as a loyal customer. ATG - scroll to his policies at the bottom of the page.

(As an aside, I opened a Pricescope account prior to starting to sell as a faceter and rarely visit the forum - someone linked me. Could someone point me to where I can get trade verification?)

 

[micellular]

The update to the post, which reached a resolution about a month afterwards:

After a solid 40 hours (I tracked) of compiling screenshots, writing emails back and forth to Paypal, and four calls to customer service, I finally was able to escalate to a disputes expert who was surprised that my claim, and then appeal, were denied. She was not fully aware of the "pre-approved seller" aspect, and after reading through my appeal evidence, refunded me the money. Which works out to about $25/hr for my time spent.

 

[icy_jade]

(As an aside, I opened a Pricescope account prior to starting to sell as a faceter and rarely visit the forum - someone linked me. Could someone point me to where I can get trade verification?)

Hi Michelle, thanks for posting about the resolution. Good to know it was made good to you even if it’s quite a pain (40 hours! That’s one week of work!)



If you go to your account preferences, you can mark yourself as trade in the second last option.

 

[fredflintstone]

I

I know Mvmgems well and spoke to her throughout this issue-her post isn't bogus. It's possible to have very negative outlier experiences with a company like Paypal and those instances should be considered as part of risk assessment. Just because it didn't happen to you doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Ok, new person. LOL!

There will always be someone that can bamboozle the system, no doubt whether it is Paypal or the justice system. So, is it the justice system or Paypal's fault? Should we toss all protection to the side? My advice is not. There is alway a victim, whether they truly are or not.

Nothing in this world is foolproof, but you can hedge your bets. Paypal is as good as bet as there is for dealing with someone over the internet you never met and never will and still protect you.

All the rest that has been said by other parties is just conjecture.


Experience counts for something. Years of experience.

 

[minousbijoux]

Ok, new person. LOL!

There will always be someone that can bamboozle the system, no doubt whether it is Paypal or the justice system. So, is it the justice system or Paypal's fault? Should we toss all protection to the side? My advice is not. There is alway a victim, whether they truly are or not.

Nothing in this world is foolproof, but you can hedge your bets. Paypal is as good as bet as there is for dealing with someone over the internet you never met and never will and still protect you.

All the rest that has been said by other parties is just conjecture.


Experience counts for something. Years of experience.

Seriously, doesn't it get old constantly telling us about your "years of experience?" It seems to me (and quite often in other threads as well, actually) that you are the one who keeps arguing. In fact your need, so frequent, to have the last word, wears thin. Please for a second consider the fact that it is quite possible that others here might have considerable experience as well.

 

[fredflintstone]

Hi, this is Michelle of mvmgems. The account is absolutely true, and I'm happy to upload proof to another image hosting site. It should still be available on Facebook under this link. I've double checked that the permissions are publicly accessible, and it includes 22 photos/screenshots of our interactions.

That being said, as a very small fry I still use Paypal as a buyer and seller because of how dominant it is. I have used Transferwise about half a dozen times mostly as buyer to trusted vendors with no issues so far .

I'm far from the only person, new or established, to have issues with Paypal. L Allen Brown of All That Glitters as also stopped using them after 20 years as a loyal customer. ATG - scroll to his policies at the bottom of the page.

(As an aside, I opened a Pricescope account prior to starting to sell as a faceter and rarely visit the forum - someone linked me. Could someone point me to where I can get trade verification?)

Seriously, doesn't it get old constantly telling us about your "years of experience?" It seems to me (and quite often in other threads as well, actually) that you are the one who keeps arguing. In fact your need, so frequent, to have the last word, wears thin. Please for a second consider the fact that it is quite possible that others here might have considerable experience as well.

Well, this may be very true. But consider this, I might be very well right too. In this case there are literally a wealth of proof that Paypal does work for the consumer. That cannot be contested as a whole.

I've read many of your posts and the same thing could be said of you, but that is another discussion, and it is your right to exercise that, and I will stick up for your right to do that. Obviously, you don't feel the same way about me. So be it.

As far as L. Allen Brown, No comment. Take that for what it is worth… or not.

 

[micellular]

Flint, you're responding to an argument I didn't make. Nobody here is arguing "So, is it the justice system or Paypal's fault? Should we toss all protection to the side?"

Paypal has built a following based on a reputation for buyer protection, but as someone earlier mentioned, their terms and services have changed over the years and what they used to protect may no longer be covered, or the process may be more difficult.

I shared my experience to highlight what can happen, and to provide additional information to make the judgement call themselves based on their personal risk tolerance for the particular transaction under consideration.

 

[fredflintstone]

Flint, you're responding to an argument I didn't make. Nobody here is arguing "So, is it the justice system or Paypal's fault? Should we toss all protection to the side?"

Paypal has built a following based on a reputation for buyer protection, but as someone earlier mentioned, their terms and services have changed over the years and what they used to protect may no longer be covered, or the process may be more difficult.

I shared my experience to highlight what can happen, and to provide additional information to make the judgement call themselves based on their personal risk tolerance for the particular transaction under consideration.

I actually was not replying to you other than my last sentence. I was replying to minousbijoux for the most part.

Yes, there are some people here making arguments against Paypal, or maybe I should say comments.

Sure, every financial agency changes policy, banks do it all the time, But there was never a pre-approve clause for invoicing/doing business that I ever seen, signed or aware of in all the years I used Payal. Never, and that is where this second round of my comments here started.

 

[Ella]

Folks, please be kind to each other. This isn't the place for nastiness, take it elsewhere.

 

[icy_jade]

Time passes, things change...

 

[fredflintstone]

Time passes, things change...

A parachute also only works if you learned how to use it and jump from off the ground.

Frank Zappa said many things, not always nice but his intent was never to be nice for the sake of being liked. But I liked him anyway. RIP Frank.

 

[icy_jade]

In fact your need, so frequent, to have the last word, wears thin.

Agree and since PS has an ignore function, that’s what I’ve done.

 

[fredflintstone]

Agree and since PS has an ignore function, that’s what I’ve done.

That is fine. I was through here, but it was obvious that your comment was pointed at me (yes I know you are ignoring me but this is for others here and myself). I would have as soon called it quits. I was all for Ella's comment and I think it was probably pointed more at me, which is fine. But one thing I always do is reply if I am replied too or a comment is directed toward me as yours obviously was. Call it common curtsy, welcomed or not. I was all for Ella's comment, which was basically…peace. You wrote what you did, and I replied what I did in sincerity.

I was not name calling. I have nothing against you or anyone on this thread. But I do have a direct way of saying things. My only goal here was to try to help some people out whether to use Paypal or not and use it as safely as they can (nothing is perfect). Whether they take my advice is their given prerogative. Whether they want to take my word for it is their given choice but if they reply, I do reply back which I would hope is my given choice here.

My only goal here on PS is to help. I do not post that often, but when I do I feel I have the experience to help, and after all, is that not what a lot of these threads are for, help? Sometimes people do not want it or won’t accept it and sometimes I might not completely read through something and I am wrong. But make no mistake, I do not do this with malice towards anyone here. But at the same time I find it a little one sided here that I write something and people reply and I reply back but I'm the bad guy because I have to have the last word. It is not so much that but I feel it is rude to ignore a reply to me.

And Minous is right, I do mention experience a lot. I’m sorry if that offends some, but I do have a lot of experience to share and hopefully someone will benefit from it and there are times I ride it hard, but only when just like this thread it is not allowed to die by constant replies. If this was a forum about cars you’d never read a word from me as I’m as mechanical as a rock. But I do know a lot about rocks and the business of rocks and I try to share it to help.

With all of that said, I have no plans of posting on this thread anymore unless someone directs a comment my way. I just soon let it die and be done with it and if a few took my advice here, great! If not, that is fine too.

Good day.