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Using Transferwise for payments to overseas IG sellers

yaygems

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 27, 2020
Messages
54
So I'm looking at purchasing a gemstone from an IG seller and they have asked for me to use Transferwise as it has lower fees and better exchange rates. They also have an Etsy account and have good reviews but I'm nervous about what buyer protection I would have if I use this method.
They did say I can pay via PayPal or through etsy but they would charge between 5-10% more to cover the fees. Since there is an option to pay via debit card through Transferwise, I'm wondering if I would be able to access a chargeback through the debit card if I end up having a dispute with the seller. Has anyone used Transferwise for buying overseas and successfully accessed a chargeback through their debit card when having a dispute with a seller? Thanks!
 

fredflintstone

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jul 18, 2020
Messages
297
Never use a transfer wire. No protection.

I suggest always using Payal. The only way of truly being safe.

Yes, if they send an invoice some oversea dealers get charged 5% from Paypal. But at the same time, they're making their money, don't let them fool you. 10% is an out right lie. Tell them well, thanks, but, no thanks, I'll find a stone somewhere else. You'd be surprised how many will say, ok, I'll do it with Paypal without extra charge.

You can also tell them to send you a money request with the stones listed with their prices. I do believe Paypal will protect you here, but not 100%.

Hope this helps.
 

PinkAndBlueBling

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 16, 2017
Messages
922
I've used Transferwise twice, no problem with payment or item received. I've also used bank transfers, no problems. I've actually never had any problems with items received from IG sellers. The one stone I wanted to return was here in Los Angeles, and he wanted a 25% re-stocking fee which I failed to read before buying. I kept the stone and I hate looking at it.
 

Bron357

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 22, 2014
Messages
5,217
Use PayPal. The seller fees for receiving money via Paypal are between 2.9% and 5%. it’s an expense of doing business for them, for you it’s protection if they send you nothing or send you something not as described.
Otherwise you have zero recourse with them if the sale doesn’t work out for you.
if it’s a small purchase and you are happy with the risk, ok then.
the other thing with IG sellers is there’s no way of knowing how many sales they’ve made, how happy or unhappy other purchasers have been. For all ebays faults, as a buyer ebay is a good platform.
Proceed with caution is my advice.
 

JackTrick

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jul 23, 2019
Messages
396
I've used both Transferwise and Paypal.

I had no issue with Transferwise, but I would only use it with vendors that are generally well known and respected. Definitely definitely +1 to the comment of proceeding with caution there.

But also consider that PayPal isn't flawless either, and I've seen increasing reports of them denying claims (granted, this was for gemstone rough).
 

AnastasiaBeaverhausen

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Sep 11, 2013
Messages
1,528
Maybe you could pay with Paypal but cover the fees yourself? That way you get buyer protection and only need to spend an extra 3-5% (as opposed to 10%).
 

yaygems

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 27, 2020
Messages
54
Never use a transfer wire. No protection.

I suggest always using Payal. The only way of truly being safe.

Yes, if they send an invoice some oversea dealers get charged 5% from Paypal. But at the same time, they're making their money, don't let them fool you. 10% is an out right lie. Tell them well, thanks, but, no thanks, I'll find a stone somewhere else. You'd be surprised how many will say, ok, I'll do it with Paypal without extra charge.

You can also tell them to send you a money request with the stones listed with their prices. I do believe Paypal will protect you here, but not 100%.

Hope this helps.

10% was for purchasing the stone through their etsy account, as etsy also has their own buyer protection. They did say that if I really want to pay with PayPal they would split the fee and ask for 2.5% extra. The problem with Paypal is the exchange rate isn't that great and they have fees on my end too for currency conversion, so for a $5000 stone any extra fees does add up. Trying to figure out the safest and most cost effective way.
 

yaygems

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 27, 2020
Messages
54
I've used both Transferwise and Paypal.

I had no issue with Transferwise, but I would only use it with vendors that are generally well known and respected. Definitely definitely +1 to the comment of proceeding with caution there.

But also consider that PayPal isn't flawless either, and I've seen increasing reports of them denying claims (granted, this was for gemstone rough).

Thanks, I'm also worried about paying the extra for Paypal and still not being covered, that would really suck.
 

fredflintstone

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jul 18, 2020
Messages
297
10% was for purchasing the stone through their etsy account, as etsy also has their own buyer protection. They did say that if I really want to pay with PayPal they would split the fee and ask for 2.5% extra. The problem with Paypal is the exchange rate isn't that great and they have fees on my end too for currency conversion, so for a $5000 stone any extra fees does add up. Trying to figure out the safest and most cost effective way.

If I undrstand what you wrote right?

Exchange rate is the same world over for currency. Paypal does not control exchange rates. If that was true when I was in business I'd be paying a lot less for the stones I bought from third world countries, or any country where the dollar was stronger.

If your just speaking of paying Paypal charges with US currency, which you do not have to pay at all with an invoice. The seller pays that, as you know.


Do not offer to pay or split Paypal charges as I wrote. They will meet you 99% of the time and pay them thierselves.


Paypal will protect you. I have used it thosands of times. =)2
 
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lissyflo

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 23, 2016
Messages
1,386
Exchange rate is the same world over for currency. Paypal does not control exchange rates. If that was true when I was in business I'd be paying a lot less for the stones I bought from third world countries, or any country where the dollar was stronger.

That’s not correct. PayPal exchange rate is dreadful - they effectively add a profit margin onto the central rate. Transferwise (and other similar banks and forex companies) use a rate that is very close to central bank rates. It can make a significant difference on larger transactions.
 

fredflintstone

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jul 18, 2020
Messages
297
That’s not correct. PayPal exchange rate is dreadful - they effectively add a profit margin onto the central rate. Transferwise (and other similar banks and forex companies) use a rate that is very close to central bank rates. It can make a significant difference on larger transactions.

No, not at all.



The global exchange rate stays the same. You may get extra charges as a PayPal service no different than many financial institutions to charge a fee for exchange for converting currency, but the global exchange rate stays the same at time of purchase or sell. But you are not paying more money for a stone sent via Paypal invoice by the seller. They assume the conversion cost. If you negotiate to share the cost, then yes, you pay more..



It is foolish to not pay a little more for a lot more security of your purchase, but if you don't give into the sellers demands to share that cost then they have to pay it. You do not, as they are the seller...


 
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lissyflo

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 23, 2016
Messages
1,386
No, not at all.



The global exchange rate stays the same. You may get extra charges as a PayPal service no different than many financial institutions to charge a fee for exchange for converting currency, but the global exchange rate stays the same at time of purchase or sell. But you are not paying more money for a stone sent via Paypal invoice by the seller. They assume that cost.



It is foolish to not pay a little more for a lot more security of your purchase.


The exchange rate doesn’t stay the same. Each institution can and does set their own rates. It’s why it’s really foolish to exchange foreign currency in airport currency exchange places - the rate they give is appalling compared to even high street banks where you’re not a captive market.

For instance, the global £ to $ exchange rate is currently 1.39. Transferwise will currently give 1.3864. (Revolut, XE and other companies are similar, and you can also obtain cards on these kinds of account, which may give some online protection.) PayPal currently give 1.34. PayPal alternatives will also generally charge lower fees, on top of having better rates.

On a sizeable purchase the rate difference can easily mount up, especially with fees are then applied on top as well. I’m not arguing that the buyer protection from PayPal isn’t necessarily worth the extra, but your statement about the rate being fixed is incorrect.
 
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fredflintstone

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jul 18, 2020
Messages
297
Yes, the value from one currency to another always fluctuates. No doubt. What I meant by saying "The global exchange rate stays the same," is that it does fluctuate, of course it does (I know, I worded it wrong), but Paypal has no control over that.



What PayPal or any other financial institution has control over is how much they are going to charge you to convert it as an extra fee. But they have no control of currency fluctuation, hence the currency rates at the time of purchase are the same as what currency are on the world monetary system at that moment of processing the purchase.
 

peacechick

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 6, 2013
Messages
1,427
Honestly, they should only charge you the extra amount that Paypal/Etsy charges them... I’m not sure why it would be a range of 5%-10%? Even if it’s a double commission to Etsy and PayPal, surely they know what percentage would be? It’s the same as when my local jeweller gives me a small discount to pay with cash rather than use a credit card.

ETA: Read the thread again, and I don’t really understand why they ask you to split PayPal fees. Just offer what you think is fair and they should pay their own fees. Is this a well priced stone in the first place? And yes, PayPal will offer protection even if you don’t go through Etsy.
 
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fredflintstone

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jul 18, 2020
Messages
297
Honestly, they should only charge you the extra amount that Paypal/Etsy charges them... I’m not sure why it would be a range of 5%-10%? Even if it’s a double commission to Etsy and PayPal, surely they know what percentage would be? It’s the same as when my local jeweller gives me a small discount to pay with cash rather than use a credit card.

ETA: Read the thread again, and I don’t really understand why they ask you to split PayPal fees. Just offer what you think is fair and they should pay their own fees. Is this a well priced stone in the first place? And yes, PayPal will offer protection even if you don’t go through Etsy.

Actually, Esty now charges as much as 15% I've been told by my friends in the trade. This is due to Esty doing google adds (the vendor cannot opt out of the ads) & etc. So, if your stone gets sold that was in the add, whether or not that the person who buys the stones sees it in the add or just by coming to your page, Esty will charge close to 15%, but with the fees too, it is more than that. Plus, the buyer must pay sales tax in the USA.

Paypal & direct contact is so much better for both parties concerned. Just make sure there is a return policy written into the invoice.
 

peacechick

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 6, 2013
Messages
1,427
Actually, Esty now charges as much as 15% I've been told by my friends in the trade. This is due to Esty doing google adds (the vendor cannot opt out of the ads) & etc. So, if your stone gets sold that was in the add, whether or not that the person who buys the stones sees it in the add or just by coming to your page, Esty will charge close to 15%, but with the fees too, it is more than that. Plus, the buyer must pay sales tax in the USA.

Paypal & direct contact is so much better for both parties concerned. Just make sure there is a return policy written into the invoice.

Sheesh, I didn’t know that. The thing I loved about Etsy the most was how good their search bar was. eBay is so tiring to look through, and IG’s search sucks (plus no prices). Guess I have to join the gem selling Facebook groups like you suggested :P2
 

icy_jade

Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 1, 2009
Messages
4,213
The global exchange rate stays the same.

Different banks and online payment portals use different foreign exchange rates for conversions. Some will give better conversions, no different from how you can go to different money changers (in the old days when overseas holidays were possible) and get a little more or less depending on the rates they offer.
 
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yaygems

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 27, 2020
Messages
54
I've used Transferwise twice, no problem with payment or item received. I've also used bank transfers, no problems. I've actually never had any problems with items received from IG sellers. The one stone I wanted to return was here in Los Angeles, and he wanted a 25% re-stocking fee which I failed to read before buying. I kept the stone and I hate looking at it.

Would you use transferwise for a $5000 stone? Also if I use paypal it will bump the payment up by approximately $500 in fees compared to transferwise. It may be higher as they also warn about extra fees that might not be included in the estimate lol I honestly don't think the person will cause a problem as they have good etsy reviews and have been very helpful the whole time. The fact they are offering paypal rather than just transferwise as well says to me they are probably trustworthy. But of course since it is a large payment I am naturally hesitating about the risk.
 

lovedogs

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 31, 2014
Messages
13,002
Is it true that PP doesnt work in Sri Lanka? I just had a vendor say that PP doesnt work for them. I paid using transferwise and it's fine but just curious
 

icy_jade

Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 1, 2009
Messages
4,213
Is it true that PP doesnt work in Sri Lanka? I just had a vendor say that PP doesnt work for them. I paid using transferwise and it's fine but just curious

 

fredflintstone

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jul 18, 2020
Messages
297
Is it true that PP doesnt work in Sri Lanka? I just had a vendor say that PP doesnt work for them. I paid using transferwise and it's fine but just curious

Most Sri Lankans dealers do take Paypal, but they have it set up with friends & relatives in other countries.
 

fredflintstone

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jul 18, 2020
Messages
297
Would you use transferwise for a $5000 stone? Also if I use paypal it will bump the payment up by approximately $500 in fees compared to transferwise. It may be higher as they also warn about extra fees that might not be included in the estimate lol I honestly don't think the person will cause a problem as they have good etsy reviews and have been very helpful the whole time. The fact they are offering paypal rather than just transferwise as well says to me they are probably trustworthy. But of course since it is a large payment I am naturally hesitating about the risk.

If the seller invoices you through Paypal. you do not pay any fees, the sellers pays all associated fees to the transaction. You can do friends and family, for next to nothing but you are not protected with that from fraud, but neither are you with a bank transfer.

The only way you pay fees through Payal in the amounts you suggest is you send money for goods to the seller.

When I sold stones, I sent 1000's of Paypal invoices. I paid all fees. I then in turn took those fees off on my income taxes as a business cost.
 

mellowyellowgirl

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 17, 2014
Messages
4,361
If it makes you feel any better I'm notorious for sending money into the ether and I've always received my goods.

I have bought a lot of Jade so it's either go retail and buy super ugly Jade for thousands of dollars or send money to China with no insurance, refunds or charge backs. Lol You get braver the more you buy!
 

PinkAndBlueBling

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 16, 2017
Messages
922
Transferwise, or Wise as it is now, drives me crazy! My first transactions were easy and smooth. I guess it depends on the currency type or account you're sending to and location, because I had to send dollars to euros to whatever, and I've also had to send foreign currency to them to convert to dollars to whatever. The fees can be annoying depending on what you have to do. I'd still use it if need be. Thank you for letting me have a mini rant.

Regarding Sri Lanka, if they can't take it, they can't take it. There are a lot of articles out there about it, as icy_jade said.

You also can't use certain credit cards in other countries that are outside of their currency.

One country wanted me to verify my identity. Can't remember which one. I skipped that.
 

yaygems

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 27, 2020
Messages
54
If the seller invoices you through Paypal. you do not pay any fees, the sellers pays all associated fees to the transaction. You can do friends and family, for next to nothing but you are not protected with that from fraud, but neither are you with a bank transfer.

The only way you pay fees through Payal in the amounts you suggest is you send money for goods to the seller.

When I sold stones, I sent 1000's of Paypal invoices. I paid all fees. I then in turn took those fees off on my income taxes as a business cost.

So I realised I was reading the fees page wrong, apparently there's more fees if you send money as a "personal" transaction, as in to friends and family, rather than if you use the buyer protection. So I only had to pay the international conversion fee and the bad exchange rate. Still, ended up being $400 extra compared to Wise, but I at least I feel more protected. The seller replied straight away and is sending the parcel apparently so hopefully it all works out.
 

fredflintstone

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jul 18, 2020
Messages
297
Sending "Friends and Family" through Paypal cost very little. Many oversea dealers want you to do that so they don't get charged fees associated with sending invoices which can be up to 4.99%. If you are sending money to pay for commercial goods, then bigger fees apply.
 

icy_jade

Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 1, 2009
Messages
4,213
Anyway as I understand, sellers need to be preapproved under user terms:

98865BD9-7862-46D8-B4F3-DDD857D6A2A2.jpeg

Otherwise there is no protection for buyers anyway. I won’t pay extra to use PayPal for some illusion of protection.

See:
 

evil_unicorn

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 26, 2014
Messages
52
Anyway as I understand, sellers need to be preapproved under user terms:

98865BD9-7862-46D8-B4F3-DDD857D6A2A2.jpeg

Otherwise there is no protection for buyers anyway. I won’t pay extra to use PayPal for some illusion of protection.

See:

Thanks @icy_jade! I was unaware of this and am a bit shocked now tbh. I always thought PayPal is best when it comes to buyer protection!
Guess I'll stick to my credit card for future gemstones/jewellery purchase...

In saying that, I just made a purchase using TransferWise/Wise with a credit card last night, so I’m glad I didn’t get to use PayPal or else I won’t be covered!!
 
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icy_jade

Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 1, 2009
Messages
4,213
If the seller invoices you through Paypal. you do not pay any fees, the sellers pays all associated fees to the transaction. You can do friends and family, for next to nothing but you are not protected with that from fraud, but neither are you with a bank transfer.

The only way you pay fees through Payal in the amounts you suggest is you send money for goods to the seller.

When I sold stones, I sent 1000's of Paypal invoices. I paid all fees. I then in turn took those fees off on my income taxes as a business cost.

So did you get PayPal pre-approval when you sold stones?
 
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