USAA / stolen ring update

[whitewave]

This is total nonsense!!! If you were paying their premium based on an 11k value, how can they then turn around and say they are only giving 6k? Isn't that the entire point of paying insurance based on a certain $$ replacement value?? I am very confused.

Because most policies are written to basically say replacement value or 11k whatever is the least. Unless it is a straight cash out policy, which hers apparently is not. It is an either or and USAA are choosing replace as first choice.

 

[cokitty]

USAA offers multiple options for jewelry insurance. Part of it is how did you document/submit when you ordered the policy. It sounds like you may not have fully understood the policy. I have never had any issues with USAA myself, but I am also the sort who goes over things line by line to make sure I understand what I am signing up for.
This is an expensive and unfortunate way to realize you did not fully understand your policy.

I know someone who got their hand shut in one of those awful sliding doors on a minivan in march. Tricare took care of her hand and USAA had the check to her before the cast was off.

Don't feel attacked, everything in life has a learning curve. I have my fingers crossed that you will enjoy the new rings once they arrive.

 

[whitewave]

Its all in the contract, they are not insuring 11k, they are insuring to make them whole with like kind up to 11k.
In this case they are saying their guy can make the like kind for 6k fulfilling the contract so that is what they are offering for cash.

Exactly and I am unsure why she is not letting them recreate her rings like for like and allowing them to make her whole.

She also doesn’t seem to understand that diamonds trade and therefore, their value fluctuates. Diamonds prices are lower right now I believe than in 2012 for instance.

 

[the_mother_thing]

@mymindslost I’m sorry you feel attacked; that’s certainly not anyone’s intention here. We genuinely want to help; unfortunately in this case, it seems the only ‘help’ we can offer is to explain how jewelry insurance typically works so you realize 1) USAA really isn’t being shady and/or trying to screw you; and, 2) you know what to do/ask for in an appraisal going forward so you aren’t overpaying for insurance. Sadly, many of us learned these lessons the hard way as well, and we share here in hopes others will ‘learn before they leap’.

You absolutely SHOULD post your CADS, lab reports, etc., and any other images here when you get them from USAA. That is where folks really can help you not get a subpar piece out of this unfortunate situation by helping you see and show USAA where they may be missing a detail, angle, feature, etc from your previous set to this new one. Many of us have experience with the custom process, reviewing CADs, etc. If you ‘take your toys and go home’ now, you’ll miss out on some very valuable help from people who want nothing more than for you to get a beautiful ring in the end. That may seem blunt, but it’s the truth. Your local jeweler will have his hand out expecting more than that, I assure you.

 

[new-beginning]

I am sorry about your loss and the issue with USAA; however, I suspect the main problem is that you paid retail, got an appraisal of 'retail price', and insured for retail price (which, obviously, included a typical brick and mortar markup). USAA plans to either replace at wholesale or offer you a cash refund at wholesale.

I know this is not what you were expecting, and it isn't even what you believed your insurance would cover. Hopefully, you will locate better coverage on your replacement items.

 

[Lookinagain]

I don't think anyone is implying that your rings are "cheap". They are just trying to explain that USAA can purchase the stones and make the rings for much less money than you can go out and buy them for. You do not get the benefit of wholesale pricing, or any benefit for being a large customer. USAA probably sources their diamonds from a few places and therefore gets them at a very favorable price as they are probably something like a "bulk" buyer, for lack of a better term, as I'm sure they have plenty of claims that require them to buy diamonds. And they have their own bench who will make the settings. So the cost to them just happens to be less than what you paid or what your appraisal states. That is how insurance works if your policy is for "replacement cost". It doesn't indicate anything about the quality of your rings and you should not think that it does. It's just a question of how much they have to pay for something vs. how much you had to pay.

 

[tyty333]

I'm sorry you're going through this. Til now I've only heard good things about USAA. Im frankly shocked they'd gwt into the jewelry making business to save money on their claims. Unfortunately most insurance companies make money on both ends. Health insurance is a good example where you can't get the same rate if you pay cash directly to the provider. You have to insure at a retail cost and the insurer is only willing to pay wholesale to satisfy your claim. I hope they can come to a better sokution and that you can find another insurer in the future that will work directly with your jeweler of choice.

Outside of their insurance USAA sales diamonds/engagement rings/jewelry. USAA, from what I understand, covers a lot of different businesses in order to
help US Military members. I believe they used to do travel also but not sure any more. I used to receive flyers from them but since going mostly paperless
I dont receive them anymore.

 

[Forgiven888]

I do feel sorry for your lost rings but I see no fault in anything USAA is doing. Your post is putting blame on a company doing exactly what they are supposed to be doing and if you went with any other insurance company, it would be the same thing. I know you wrote you feel attacked but that is because in this situation you misunderstood what was covered or how your insurance policy works and now am blaming USAA.

I hope everything works out but next time try not to blame a company who is doing everything they are supposed to correctly.

 

[bludiva]

I dunno the intricacies of OPs insurance policy but it seems like USAA could handle this a bit better for example using her mold and could do a better job of explaining how they will ensure like for like quality. It's always the hope that we don't have to use these policies and that when we do we're not navigating a minefield.

 

[the_mother_thing]

I dunno the intricacies of OPs insurance policy but it seems like USAA could handle this a bit better for example using her mold and could do a better job of explaining how they will ensure like for like quality. It's always the hope that we don't have to use these policies and that when we do we're not navigating a minefield.

I imagine using her mold is an additional risk they understandably don’t want to take on. If something happens to that, that is ‘irreplaceable’, I’d think, so I can also appreciate OP’s family not wanting to ship it off elsewhere. Assuming the mold is for the wedding band, I’m hard pressed to understand why the cost for the local jeweler to reproduce that band is so exorbitant. They have a mold, the shop has produced the ring before, it’s not like a hand-forged, ‘from-scratch’ custom ring that would have a ton of back & forth on details, or even CAD, etc. ... but not seeing a pic of it, it’s hard to say, I suppose. It could be a super elaborate wedding band requiring heavy labor to finish/engrave, etc.

None of us were on the phone, so we really shouldn’t assume USAA didn’t do a good job explaining her policy details or the replacement options/process to her. Is it possible? Absolutely, but it reads more to me like OP was unaware and/or caught by surprise with what her policy actually provides, and I can understand that in the midst of the sadness of the loss in the first place, especially if there wasn’t a lot of research done on the front end to take out the policy. But it doesn’t mean good/reasonable customer service wasn’t extended. In fact, I can’t think of a single time I’ve been on the phone with USAA in my 20+ years of membership (and it has been A LOT!) where someone was rude, unhelpful, didn’t take the time to explain something to me, etc.; in fact, it’s always the opposite. In my experience, this is not a company that is going to hang their reputation on providing crappy service to any member ... just saying.

 

[cmd2014]

I think it's hard when you realize that your insurance company will pay a jeweler considerably less money than what you paid retail to replace your jewelry. It takes a while to understand that they are not undercutting you, but simply that what you paid when you bought your piece retail was a huge markup from what they are able source wholesale (if they have an in-house team) or what they are able to negotiate with a jeweler who does insurance work (when they contract in bulk). It makes you feel that they are giving you the short end of the stick and that you aren't getting the same quality as what you originally paid for. It's also hard to accept the loss of control over what the insurance company feels is "of like quality" because we all know two G VS1 Ex, Ex, Ex stones are not going to be alike (and that people here will pour over stones to find the best cut ones, even though they look the same on paper).

If I was the OP, I'd probably let them replace everything but the family heirloom ring. For the extra $200 it would be worth it to me to have the exact replica done with the family mold.

 

[bludiva]

I imagine using her mold is an additional risk they understandably don’t want to take on. If something happens to that, that is ‘irreplaceable’, I’d think, so I can also appreciate OP’s family not wanting to ship it off elsewhere. Assuming the mold is for the wedding band, I’m hard pressed to understand why the cost for the local jeweler to reproduce that band is so exorbitant. They have a mold, the shop has produced the ring before, it’s not like a hand-forged, ‘from-scratch’ custom ring that would have a ton of back & forth on details, or even CAD, etc. ... but not seeing a pic of it, it’s hard to say, I suppose. It could be a super elaborate wedding band requiring heavy labor to finish/engrave, etc.

None of us were on the phone, so we really shouldn’t assume USAA didn’t do a good job explaining her policy details or the replacement options/process to her. Is it possible? Absolutely, but it reads more to me like OP was unaware and/or caught by surprise with what her policy actually provides, and I can understand that in the midst of the sadness of the loss in the first place, especially if there wasn’t a lot of research done on the front end to take out the policy. But it doesn’t mean good/reasonable customer service wasn’t extended. In fact, I can’t think of a single time I’ve been on the phone with USAA in my 20+ years of membership (and it has been A LOT!) where someone was rude, unhelpful, didn’t take the time to explain something to me, etc.; in fact, it’s always the opposite. In my experience, this is not a company that is going to hang their reputation on providing crappy service to any member ... just saying.

Good point, I can't assume what was said. I do hope she's able to get to a satisfactory resolution.

 

[GreenPapaya]

I'm sorry to hear about your stolen ring. I hope you are able to get a satisfactory resolution. Dealing with insurance is stressful. I filed my first ever claim with USAA last summer. We went to Europe and on my very first day in Barcelona, my phone was stolen from my purse in the metro. From googling online, I discovered that it's covered under my renter's insurance policy with USAA. I filed a claim online, they sent a check to me 6 or so weeks later and I thought that was the end of that. Well, when it came time to renew my policy, it was 4x the amount I usually paid . USAA never gave me a reason why they increased it so much. Especially since it was my first claim and we've been with them since 2001 (or 1997?). This remind me to call USAA again. If I knew my policy was going to increase that much I would have never filed a claim. It was more than the price of my phone.

 

[jp201845]

Please come back @mymindslost I can assure you everyone is really trying to help you get a fair replacement value of your rings and I'm truly sorry if you feel attacked that's nobody's intention....

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I'm sorry to hear about your stolen ring. I hope you are able to get a satisfactory resolution. Dealing with insurance is stressful. I filed my first ever claim with USAA last summer. We went to Europe and on my very first day in Barcelona, my phone was stolen from my purse in the metro. From googling online, I discovered that it's covered under my renter's insurance policy with USAA. I filed a claim online, they sent a check to me 6 or so weeks later and I thought that was the end of that. Well, when it came time to renew my policy, it was 4x the amount I usually paid . USAA never gave me a reason why they increased it so much. Especially since it was my first claim and we've been with them since 2001 (or 1997?). This remind me to call USAA again. If I knew my policy was going to increase that much I would have never filed a claim. It was more than the price of my phone.

This is actually another very important point that many people don't understand, so thank you for posting! In relation to jewelry, I sometimes see people with setting damage or lost stones say they would file with their insurance. I always tell people never to make small claims because it usually will cost you more in the long run, even if the higher premium is small at first. We carry fairly high deductibles on some insurance just because we'd never make a small claim.

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

So, now I'm regretting posting this and I really wish I hadn't but I feel like I can't just not respond either.

My previous thread I was asking for advice because at that time I thought we were going to be just receiving the value for my rings cashed out and I was trying to figure out what the best way to replace my e-ring specifically was. Nearly a month went by from the time we made the claim before they told us they wouldn't replace off our receipts/appraisals etc and told us about their replication process. They did not mention any of that up front besides saying that we had the choice to have them replicate or us cash out and replace. I had looked into custom creating the same style of ring with some of the jewelers mentioned here on Pricescope because I wasn't sure what the dollar comparison was compared to my current ring. I did mention in that other thread that I could also go with my same setting from my local jeweler I had gotten it previously from. My ring was only 2 years old and to my surprise he had another available. I was trying to stick with a similar stone size and quality even. I don't know how by shopping around for recreating that ring would be a negative thing? I just wanted to find out my options and opinions from others so that's why I had originally posted.

My previous ring specs from appraisal:
0.91 ct E color, SI1. Cushion shape halo surround with twelve round full cut melee, diamonds equal approx. 0.60ct. Flush diamonds set down the shank, twelve diamonds on each side, totaling 24 diamonds equaling approx. 0.34 ct. together. Thirty six diamonds equal approx. 0.94 ct together of G/H SI1 grades. Total ring approx. weight is 1.85 ct diamond. It talks about the diamond dimensions and some other details to describe the ring.

My family ring (a right hand ring) I've never wanted to recreate with anyone but the jeweler that did my other family members. We have the mold so to me we just replicate off that. I just had hoped it would be valued for by USAA for the cost it is for me to do that - rather than what they think they can duplicate it themselves for because in my eyes you don't duplicate a family heirloom where every ring is the same. It's a $200 difference from their value to replicate and what my moms jeweler can do it for so not even that big of a deal in the long run perhaps but $200 is $200. USAA would not agree to use my mold.

My sapphire diamond bands I could go either way - I know it costs more than what USAA wants to pay out to buy them. I have shopped around for the same rings, even at mall stores like Zales or say Shane company (cheaper quality than mine were) and they still cost more than USAA will pay out so no choice but to replicate.

I think the key thing I've learned through this now looking at it is that USAA has in house gemologists that they can use to recreate things at a lower cost, they can get diamonds sourced at a lower cost. Therefor they are saying they can replicate for a certain value amount. I did not know this was their process and perhaps I should have been better informed but I seriously had no clue they would have such low values for my property. I have no choice but to let them replicate because I can't buy new rings of equivalent value with the pay outs they want to give me. I don't know why others can just send pictures and get checks issued on their items or others just get checks for items detailed in an appraisal but no pictures. The claims adjuster has said numerous times that it's because my appraisal is so detailed and my pictures were so clear that they can replicate. I think if I had say a custom ring with a special diamond or a specific type that maybe they can't recreate it would be different. My jeweler does not carry run of the mill items though either, he takes trips overseas a few times a year to diamond shop for clients. My in-laws have used him for years as well and with very high quality expensive items similar to those on this board. So I find it slightly upsetting that I'm getting the impression that people think my rings must be cheap or junk and not worth much or that I'm doing something wrong to get this type of response from USAA. I'm really upset, hurt, have been crying a ton over this, stressed out, not sleeping etc and it seems like coming here for advice was perhaps a bad idea rather than helpful.

I'm attaching my ring picture, (I do realize now that I've been on pricescope that it could be set a bit better because there is a small gap between stone/halo but I don't think it looks like some cheap ring either). I just sort feel attacked a bit and emotional about all of this. I obviously have learned a ton about this idea of USAA and "replacing with equal value" vs actually doing it based on my appraisals or what I paid or even what it would cost for me to replace. I wish I knew they only valued all my property at 6k so my premiums weren't based on a higher value. I guess I could get 2-3 appraisals in the future to guarantee that I cover myself better too, I don't know.

I am supposed to receive CAD's in the upcoming days and the GIA cert before they order the diamond. I'm not sure how comfortable I feel saying they look good, was hoping for help here with that but this thread really makes me feel pretty awful.

And I forgot to mention that my representative told me, "If you don't like the rings we replicate you can do whatever with them and sell them." I'm sorry but I just took that really hard because these rings aren't just items to me, they mean SO much more than that to me.

link to rings - one is a video even. https://photos.app.goo.gl/83SfvqYqqs4DpRY56
(I'm a size 7 for reference) Hopefully that works.

I would've posted a reply/answered questions sooner but I barely left my patient all night, and took a lunch finally at 4am.

oh dear
i hope your patient is doing better
my heart actually breaks for you over your stolen rings
thank you for starting this thread because im learning from everyone's reply
but i just don't know enough about insurence to feel like i could make a helpful reply before
i have a very low opinion of the insurence industry after seeing what the entire city of Christchurch has gone through with insurence companies
Your not the only one who feels hard done by because it feels like they keep shifting the goal posts
i fully understand how you think you should get back what you paid premiums for
i worked for a very large Australian hardwear chain and we handled alot of insurence work
the insurence companies got discounts almost as good as our staff discount which was cost + 10% + tax
The insurence companies here get a really good deal from my mall jewler which is fine for replacing like with like but not my grandma's engagement ring thank you !
im so sorry your rings got stolen in the first place and i totally understand how you want the original jewler to make your hairloom family ring - i just love that your mom and sister have matching ones
ive learnt alot from this forum and indeed your thread
please don't feel offended
sometimes the way we read things off the internet is not quite how the writer intended but when we read it we don't see their sympathetic expression or hear their carring tone

the ring in your video is beaitiful and i wish you well in getting all this sorted out

 

[TreeScientist]

Is the $11k appraised value for only the E-ring, or the e-ring and two sapphire-diamond bands together? Would be helpful to figure out how they most likely arrived at $6k for the cash-out value. As a hypothetical example, this is a similar setting on Adiamor:
https://www.adiamor.com/Engagement-...etting-for-Cushion-Cut-Diamond/WhiteGold/1710

And a similarly spec'd diamond that is well cut for a cushion (nice pattern under the table):
https://www.adiamor.com/Diamonds/0.90-ct-E-VS2-Excellent-Cut-Cushion-Diamond/D43463323?

Together, that's around $5.2k for a similar E-ring. Again, online jewelers like Adiamor are typically priced around 25-30% above wholesale, so multiplying $5.2k by .75 is $3900. I assume that USAA would not be paying more than about $4k, or $4.5k at the most if it was in platinum (you didn't specify) to make this ring. Throw in 2 sapphire/diamond wedding bands, and it's pretty easy to see how they arrived at $6k for the total cash-out value.

I don't think it was anyone's intention to be rude in their replies. It's just to help you understand how USAA is arriving at this figure. And we're not implying that your family jeweler is overpriced. I'm sure they're quite fair for a B&M store. What you need to understand though, is that B&M stores will always charge a higher percentage over wholesale than equivalent online jewelers. They NEED to in order to stay in business. They have a physical storefront that they need to rent out and employees they need to pay, and their overall turnover is much lower than an equivalent online jeweler that sells nationwide/internationally. For example, in a hypothetical scenario, an online jeweler may have $1 million in total gross sales for any given month, whereas your typical mom and pop local jeweler would likely be in the $100k range. If they have equivalent overhead (storefront and employee costs), then the local jeweler is going to need a larger net profit on any given sale in order to stay afloat.

Buying from a local jeweler has many benefits (seeing rings in person, interacting with an actual human face to face, local after-sale support etc.) that make it "worth it" to pay a higher premium to many shoppers. But you need to understand that if your USAA policy is a "replace with like kind" policy, they are not going to give you an $11k payout for ring(s) they can make for $6k (or less) at "their" cost. To them, that's equivalent to giving away $5k in free money. If the difference would be small between their cost and the appraisal value, they may just go ahead and agree to a payout to make the customer happy, but I imagine that $5k is simply too great of a hit for them to take for the sake of making a single customer satisfied.

Sorry if that's harsh, but that's how business works, and USAA is a business.

 

[Tonks]

We have USAA and this all makes me want to go back and review our policy. I would never have imagined that filing a claim would put us in a position to allow an insurance company to fabricate replacement pieces. That is not at all what I would want, and I get why OP is upset.

 

[TreeScientist]

We have USAA and this all makes me want to go back and review our policy. I would never have imagined that filing a claim would put us in a position to allow an insurance company to fabricate replacement pieces. That is not at all what I would want, and I get why OP is upset.

Then you need to make sure you have a payout-based policy. Just FYI, these typically have much higher premiums than the "replace with like kind" policies, and they also typically require an appraisal from an appraiser that is authorized by the insurance company. As I'm sure you can imagine, when it comes to cash payout policies, these insurance companies want to make sure that the jewelry in question is actually worth close to what is recorded on the appraisal, because it would be a very easy method of insurance fraud to have jewelry appraised by an "appraiser" for about 2X what it is worth/what was paid for it, and then "lose" it and collect the difference.

 

[Johnbt]

" I don't understand how I can pay for a policy on the e-ring alone for $11k+ and it be worth only approx. $5k."

If they knew precisely what they were insuring and they knew they could make it/replace it for $6k, then why didn't they base the premium on that $6k valuation? That was the extent of their exposure/risk.

Okay, I admit it, I know, it's because they collected more money using the $11k number.

 

[the_mother_thing]

" I don't understand how I can pay for a policy on the e-ring alone for $11k+ and it be worth only approx. $5k."

If they knew precisely what they were insuring and they knew they could make it/replace it for $6k, then why didn't they base the premium on that $6k valuation? That was the extent of their exposure/risk.

Okay, I admit it, I know, it's because they collected more money using the $11k number.

Well to be fair, the insurance company doesn’t have the ring in hand to assess it; they are going off the appraisal OP obtained & provided.

Alternatively, how would one react if they submitted an appraisal for an item stating replacement value was $5000, they paid $4500, but the insurance co said - based on a piece of paper - “No, this is really worth $10k, and we are going to charge you premiums for that higher value amount instead.”

 

[Diamondbug]

So the next question would be, after replacement do you insure it for 6k or 11k knowing they can replace it for 6k?

 

[Tonks]

Did a quick search and thought this thread might be of interest:

https://www.pricescope.com/communit...g-to-insure-rings-for-appraisal-value.209293/

Particularly, look at the screenshots I’m attaching. I am horrified at the thought of an insurance company selecting replacement stones.

 

[LLJsmom]

Dear @mymindslost please keep posting so people can help you get your new rings to be as close to your old rings. Don’t feel like you need to justify yourself. Everyone knows that the insurance business is a racket and you need to have a lawyer read your policy before hand and spend hours with you to explain and go through every possible scenario before you can understand what is happening. Focus on the important stuff which is replacing your rings and be strong. That’s the advice you will need going forward.

 

[the_mother_thing]

I am horrified at the thought of an insurance company selecting replacement stones.

Then it would make sense for you to pay for an upgraded policy that - in the event of a loss - will cash-out vs. replace your stone. Those types of policies are available, they just usually cost more and not everyone wants to/is able to pay that increased premium. But they are available.

 

[MamaBee]

We have USAA and this all makes me want to go back and review our policy. I would never have imagined that filing a claim would put us in a position to allow an insurance company to fabricate replacement pieces. That is not at all what I would want, and I get why OP is upset.

Me too...I have had USAA for 45 years and never filed a claim. I remember them saying..pre-PS...that they would replace the diamond. Now that’s not even okay...

 

[Tonks]

Absolutely it would. I’m grateful for this thread because I honestly, despite quite a bit of education, have not thought to look at our policy that closely. I’m sure I’m not the only one.

Then it would make sense for you to pay for an upgraded policy that - in the event of a loss - will cash-out vs. replace your stone. Those types of policies are available, they just usually cost more and not everyone wants to/is able to pay that increased premium. But they are available.

 

[Tonks]

Me too...I have had USAA for 45 years and never filed a claim. I remember them saying..pre-PS...that they would replace the diamond. Now that’s not even okay...

That’s actually an interesting point. Once upon a (pre-PS) time, an insurance company replacing a diamond might not have made me blink. Now the thought is not acceptable.

 

[the_mother_thing]

Absolutely it would. I’m grateful for this thread because I honestly, despite quite a bit of education, have not thought to look at our policy that closely. I’m sure I’m not the only one.

I just started a new thread on this topic in RT so we don’t derail OPs thread here. If you like, let’s take these questions/etc. there, maybe we can all chime in with what our ins companies say/offer and help future consumers know going in what to do/document/ask for.

 

[whitewave]

I have half my policies with State Farm and half with Ampac and my ampac policies are much more expensive, but they are straight cash out policies.

All I meant to post, and I truly don’t want OP to get offended, is that I think you need to allow USAA to start the process of replacement and see how it goes.

For instance, with my Crafted by Infinity and Brian Gavin Diamonds, I seriously doubt they could replace those— like for like would be those same branded diamonds.

But for some of my other pieces, as long as it came out the same, then it would be done.

OP, it’s like any insurance... at the end of the day, you get what is in the policy you bought. Sometimes, we don’t find out until after the event that we were underinsured or didn’t have the coverage we wanted to have.

Please come back and tell us where you are in this process. If you keep us informed as you go along, I’m sure we can help make sure you are made whole and EQUAL to what you had. Another set of eyes, so to speak...