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Tweets from a lunatic

Many of our prisons are privatized. It is big money to keep them filled and to keep things just the way they are in order to make a profit.

I don’t see anything about our prison system changing for a very long time. Not as long as big business is guaranteed $18,000 per year, per inmate.
 
t-c said:
It's not necessarily population, but our approach to crime, justice, and treatment of our citizens. To move towards the Norwegian system, we would have to reconsider how we treat minor crimes and juvenile crimes. Also how we criminalize casual drug use. Overly harsh punishment (i.e. prison) reduces the chance that a person will be able to recover (lack of job opportunities with a record, lack of good influence in their environment, etc...)

I also think that having a social safety net helps keep crime low. If you live in an every-man-for-himself society like the US, it's not hard to imagine how some turn to and get trapped in the cycle of criminality. But if you know you'll have healthcare, housing, food, and won't be stigmatized for using these services, you'll be more immune to that criminal impulse.
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Well said.
 
t-c said:
It's not necessarily population, but our approach to crime, justice, and treatment of our citizens. To move towards the Norwegian system, we would have to reconsider how we treat minor crimes and juvenile crimes. Also how we criminalize casual drug use. Overly harsh punishment (i.e. prison) reduces the chance that a person will be able to recover (lack of job opportunities with a record, lack of good influence in their environment, etc...)

I also think that having a social safety net helps keep crime low. If you live in an every-man-for-himself society like the US, it's not hard to imagine how some turn to and get trapped in the cycle of criminality. But if you know you'll have healthcare, housing, food, and won't be stigmatized for using these services, you'll be more immune to that criminal impulse.
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That sounds great. We can't even keep the mentally ill taken care of let alone actually rehabilitate prisoners. There are plenty of ideas that will never be implemented because the cost is too great.
 
t-c said:
It's not necessarily population, but our approach to crime, justice, and treatment of our citizens. To move towards the Norwegian system, we would have to reconsider how we treat minor crimes and juvenile crimes. Also how we criminalize casual drug use. Overly harsh punishment (i.e. prison) reduces the chance that a person will be able to recover (lack of job opportunities with a record, lack of good influence in their environment, etc...)

I also think that having a social safety net helps keep crime low. If you live in an every-man-for-himself society like the US, it's not hard to imagine how some turn to and get trapped in the cycle of criminality. But if you know you'll have healthcare, housing, food, and won't be stigmatized for using these services, you'll be more immune to that criminal impulse.
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But those Scandinavian countries are more into equality than America is.
Much of America is pious and into superiority, blatant or disguised behind religion.
... "I'm better than you so it's right (God's will?) that I get more and you inferior people get less."
 
Red is right that the Norwegian system wont work in the US.
Norway (and many other countries with well performing prison systems) has high taxes and much more of a "we" mentality. The US is very much a "me" mentality. You'd have riots in the streets if the govt raised taxes high enough to cover these systems that the rest of the world sees as basic necessities. There would be a country wide tiki torch shortage :roll:
 
redwood66 said:
That sounds great. We can't even keep the mentally ill taken care of let alone actually rehabilitate prisoners. There are plenty of ideas that will never be implemented because the cost is too great.
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It's a matter of priorities, isn't it? Do we (hypothetical yet typical situation) increase military budget or do we provide healthcare or do both? In the long run, the Norwegian system would cost much less, but this country never seems to do things based on the long run.
 
t-c said:
It's a matter of priorities, isn't it? Do we (hypothetical yet typical situation) increase military budget or do we provide healthcare or do both? In the long run, the Norwegian system would cost much less, but this country never seems to do things based on the long run.
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We can’t do anything based on long run because that would mean we couldn’t have bigger/better/faster/more/NOW. It would mean we’d have to wait for gratification. We’d have to wait to see results. The Walmart generation of Black Friday shoppers wants nothing to do with that.
 
redwood66 said:
So what do you suggest for people who have committed crimes? Especially violent crimes.
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Redwood66, crimes are often a relative term. Example? Marijuana is legalized in many states, so buying/using it is not a crime any longer (except for federal employees). At the same time, there still might be people serving time for selling/buying in, in the same states where it is legal.

Now the system works in a strange way. Marijuana is legal in WA and last time I checked, was not legal in neighboring ID and (definitely not) in Montana. So some people might get behind bars in ID or MO for what in WA is not a criminal offense.

Tampering with mail is a federal crime.

Last but not least, "deinstitutionalization" - Reagan's "humane" idea which ended up in closing state hospitals left us with homeless on the streets and tent cities. Homelessness and prison system are two communicating vessels, when there are too many people in one, they move to the other one, and vise versa. Homelessness related to mental illness is even more intimately connected to prisons and jails.

I should not be commenting on how often violent crimes are related to untreated, undiagnosed mental illness. I see it more often than other people. We are not talking about rapists and child molesters. But regular crime, two guys fighting in a bar? Road rage? Half of these cases, if not 2/3, could be preventable with adequate mental health care.
 
redwood66 said:
Nice place. I am sure that inmates from the US would love to live there and it is probably a great place to work as well. If our population were 5 million, and our society not so violent, we might be able to have something like that.

I agree the criminal justice system needs an overhaul, always have. But I seriously doubt any politician, regardless of leaning, would vote for a prison system such as this in Norway.
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The only thing that is really different in Norway, Finland or Iceland is the fact that their societies are more ethnically homogenous. It probably creates a certain bond, if you are living in a country like Iceland, with the population of 300000, and everyone is theoretically related.

My information about Norway I get from Jo Nesbo's murder mysteries. I don't know how true they are, but for example, "safe houses" in Oslo that Nesbo describes - places where active users could live (and use) - indicate that their society is not that perfect as well. But, at least trying to be humane.

There are debates in King County of WA about doing the same. I think it could be a safe idea - we have lost this war on drugs, everyone knows it, so maybe trying a "truce" is not so bad? For a change?
 
redwood66 said:
White supremacists existed long before the Aryan Brotherhood.
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True. Here is a little bit about Aryan Brotherhood.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aryan_Brotherhood

The problem is not that they exist. The problem is that to survive in prison, some white inmates without nationalistic ideas have to join Aryan Brotherhood. And after they are recruited, they will not leave. You know all it as well as I do. Prison does not make anyone better, it can make only worse. This environment is harsh on both the prisoners and the guards - who are also human and whose nervous system is also in overhaul from working there. The system can be improved.
 
Arkteia said:
My information about Norway I get from Jo Nesbo's murder mysteries.
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I have been following this thread without contributing. I have a few of Jo Nesbo's books in my "to read" pile, however. I am glad to find someone who has actually read them. Someone other than a reviewer, that is. I get the best ideas for books to read here on Pricescope. One book I read within the last year and loved was Norwegian By Night. I cannot recommend this one enough. End of threadjack.
 
Arkteia said:
True. Here is a little bit about Aryan Brotherhood.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aryan_Brotherhood

The problem is not that they exist. The problem is that to survive in prison, some white inmates without nationalistic ideas have to join Aryan Brotherhood. And after they are recruited, they will not leave. You know all it as well as I do. Prison does not make anyone better, it can make only worse. This environment is harsh on both the prisoners and the guards - who are also human and whose nervous system is also in overhaul from working there. The system can be improved.
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In order to survive in prison inmates join or align with a particular gang out of necessity, not just whites either. There are so many prison gangs of every color and nationality with subsets among those that are at odds with each other. Opposing Hispanic gangs will war to the death over actual or perceived injustices, same with blacks, Asians, and others, though less so.

You are preaching to the choir when you talk about the harsh system but the system costs so much already (especially in Cali) and no one wants to spend more to churn out rehabilitated criminals. One prison with 3000+ inmates, 6 staff psychiatrists, 12 psychologists, 22+ LCSWs, and a $1+ million dollar a month psychotropic medication cost, is their answer. Plenty of acknowledged malingering also going on just to get meds that they can sell/trade. The psych staff would try to stop it by working with line staff to monitor behavior once they were back in the housing unit. This is a prison where most of the inmates are never getting out. Cali has 33 prisons last count. Inmates can get an appointment anytime they want. Yet my medical coverage allowed me 6 visits per year, though I never used them. People want criminals housed away from society and the cost for that is high. I don't have the answers but I do know how violent humans can be and it is horrifying.
 
redwood66 said:
In order to survive in prison inmates join or align with a particular gang out of necessity, not just whites either. There are so many prison gangs of every color and nationality with subsets among those that are at odds with each other. Opposing Hispanic gangs will war to the death over actual or perceived injustices, same with blacks, Asians, and others, though less so.

You are preaching to the choir when you talk about the harsh system but the system costs so much already (especially in Cali) and no one wants to spend more to churn out rehabilitated criminals. One prison with 3000+ inmates, 6 staff psychiatrists, 12 psychologists, 22+ LCSWs, and a $1+ million dollar a month psychotropic medication cost, is their answer. Plenty of acknowledged malingering also going on just to get meds that they can sell/trade. The psych staff would try to stop it by working with line staff to monitor behavior once they were back in the housing unit. This is a prison where most of the inmates are never getting out. Cali has 33 prisons last count. Inmates can get an appointment anytime they want. Yet my medical coverage allowed me 6 visits per year, though I never used them. People want criminals housed away from society and the cost for that is high. I don't have the answers but I do know how violent humans can be and it is horrifying.
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Redwood66, I feel for you I am glad that you do not need the appointments, but people who do, should have enough.

But it is not right to compare our lives with the lives of those behind bars. Theirs are horrible. Even if they have unlimited doctors' appointments. I bet most of them are behind bars for drug-related charges. After years of observing addicts, i am far from blaming them. Most, sadly, inherited predisposition to drugs, certain drugs. It is genetic. So if it is my sheer luck that I don't carry genes for opiate addiction, how can I blame someone who does for "making bad choices"?

I think the answer would be to stop incarcerating addicts and to look at the problem from another angle. To me it became obvious once I read the first book about Prohibition (Richard Eyg was the author's name, if I am not mistaken. It was in 2007).
 
Arkteia said:
Redwood66, I feel for you I am glad that you do not need the appointments, but people who do, should have enough.

But it is not right to compare our lives with the lives of those behind bars. Theirs are horrible. Even if they have unlimited doctors' appointments. I bet most of them are behind bars for drug-related charges. After years of observing addicts, i am far from blaming them. Most, sadly, inherited predisposition to drugs, certain drugs. It is genetic. So if it is my sheer luck that I don't carry genes for opiate addiction, how can I blame someone who does for "making bad choices"?

I think the answer would be to stop incarcerating addicts and to look at the problem from another angle. To me it became obvious once I read the first book about Prohibition (Richard Eyg was the author's name, if I am not mistaken. It was in 2007).
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I am glad you have compassion for addicts as everyone should to a point. However I have none left for murderers, rapists, molesters and drug dealers which were the bulk of the incarcerated I am familiar with. Those made choices beyond drug addiction and I have empathy for their victims only.

I was not comparing my life to theirs either, it was making a point of the $ already spent that does nothing to make a situation any better.
 
Arkteia said:
After years of observing addicts, i am far from blaming them. Most, sadly, inherited predisposition to drugs, certain drugs. It is genetic. So if it is my sheer luck that I don't carry genes for opiate addiction, how can I blame someone who does for "making bad choices"?
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Of course not it is much easier to blame it on everyone else..:rolleyes2:
 
Dancing Fire said:
Of course not it is much easier to blame it on everyone else..:roll2:
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Dancing Fire. There are several ancestry commercial sites. 23@me does the best job counting genes. Their Ancestry portion is enough. If you get it and run your results through Promethease.com site for 5 dol, you will get your full genome - at least what we know today. They also list genes for addictions. My drug of choice would have been nicotine, I am happy I never tried. Of our family, people showed different predispositions, one, my old FIL - has the one to opiates. I am glad no one ever prescribed him painkillers for migraines. But I had several surgeries, was prescribed painkillers and felt so bad...nausea, dryness, and constant sleep. No euphoria that people described. Not even close.
But if I was lucky not to have these genes, it is not my own merit, right? Just the nature.
What about people who got double copy, from both parents?
 
redwood66 said:
I am glad you have compassion for addicts as everyone should to a point. However I have none left for murderers, rapists, molesters and drug dealers which were the bulk of the incarcerated I am familiar with. Those made choices beyond drug addiction and I have empathy for their victims only.

I was not comparing my life to theirs either, it was making a point of the $ already spent that does nothing to make a situation any better.
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Most people who sell drugs also use them. And addicts are not necessarily the most pleasant people, stealing or other crimes when there is dependency is a bad thing.

But jail is not the answer. It is an open secret that one can get any drugs in jail if he has the money.

P.S. and my attitude to addicts is less of compassion and more of logic. Really, alcohol is the same drug, and we never had as much organized crime or drinking as during the Prohibition. Moreover, Al Capone's chief hitman, "Fast Gun" McGurn after the Prohibition was lifted, attempted a golf career. Tried to get a "legal" job. And his chief accountant, "greasy thumb" Guzik, also slowly disappeared from the mob scene. Not that they were good people, but if you criminalize vices, be it drugs, alcohol or prostitution, you create true evil. How do these cartels get their money?
 
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kenny said:
But those Scandinavian countries are more into equality than America is.
Much of America is pious and into superiority, blatant or disguised behind religion.
... "I'm better than you so it's right (God's will?) that I get more and you inferior people get less."
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Oh, yes...this is what always surprises me, our Christians, should they not follow the story of Christ? How about simple "do not judge"? People who easily say "you shall go to hell".. don't they remember it is not for them to decide?

The sole factor that we have "prosperity churches" tells me it is not Christ's teaching.
 
Arkteia said:
Most people who sell drugs also use them. And addicts are not necessarily the most pleasant people, stealing or other crimes when there is dependency is a bad thing.

But jail is not the answer. It is an open secret that one can get any drugs in jail if he has the money.
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Well at least we can agree on something. Though I would be more forceful in my opinion of crimes like murder, rape, molestation being a "bad" thing. And yes criminals in prison can get most anything if they are willing to "pay" for it, though it is not always in money.

Quite a bit of violent crime has drugs involved or as a contributor but that does not negate the violent crime/s committed nor should it be a pass or excuse for it IMO.
 
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redwood66 said:
Well at least we can agree on something. Though I would be more forceful in my opinion of crimes like murder, rape, molestation being a "bad" thing. And yes criminals in prison can get most anything if they are willing to "pay" for it, though it is not always in money.

Quite a bit of violent crime has drugs involved or as a contributor but that does not negate the violent crime/s committed nor should it be a pass or excuse for it IMO.
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Redwood66, we can agree on a lot, or agree to disagree. This is not the problem. My attitude is, we should first look at harm reduction and then at prevention. But criminalizing the problem is neither. I love coffee. What happens if tomorrow they make it illegal? Just imagine. Are people going to drink it less?
 
Arkteia said:
Redwood66, we can agree on a lot, or agree to disagree. This is not the problem. My attitude is, we should first look at harm reduction and then at prevention. But criminalizing the problem is neither. I love coffee. What happens if tomorrow they make it illegal? Just imagine. Are people going to drink it less?
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I really think that we are talking about two different things and should acknowledge that. I don't think you really want to keep the most violent criminals out of prison do you? And I hope you don't think that I want to throw every drug addict in prison and toss out the key. I am talking about very violent convicted felons who need to be locked up for the protection of the rest of us.
 
Yes, but the reason we can not come to agreement is because neither of us knows what percentage of prison inmates is "very violent" beyond recovery.
 
Circling back to tweets for a moment, Cheeto von Tweeto hasn't tiny hand tweeted even ONE character of the 140 available at a crack about Mueller's charge to be revealed tomorrow. Hmmm...
 
Dee*Jay said:
Circling back to tweets for a moment, Cheeto von Tweeto hasn't tiny hand tweeted even ONE character of the 140 available at a crack about Mueller's charge to be revealed tomorrow. Hmmm...
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It means it’s really serious.

And that John Kelly has resorted to sleeping between Trump and Melania to keep the Trump away from his Twitter account. :mrgreen2:
 
I would expect indictments for Manafort and maybe Flynn. Nothing more.
 
I don't know where to put this so here's as good a place as any! I don't know if this is true because I cannot find the original video or audio but I still thought it was funny as all hell so I thought I'd share. If anyone can find the original audio/video, please post!

https://www.newyorker.com/humor/bor...cuses-clinton-of-deliberately-losing-election

WASHINGTON (The Borowitz Report)—In what might be his most startling allegation against his former election opponent, Donald Trump on Wednesday accused Hillary Clinton of deliberately losing the 2016 election just so that he could be impeached.

“How could one of the most experienced politicians in history lose to the most unfit candidate ever?” Trump asked reporters. “Crooked Hillary lost on purpose because she wanted me to be impeached.”

Explaining Clinton’s motives for intentionally sabotaging her quest for an office she had coveted for decades, Trump said, “Hillary Clinton is more than a nasty woman. She is an evil woman, and her sick mind is capable of anything.”

Trump said that instead of reporting the “fake story” of his campaign’s collusion with the Russians, the media should focus on Clinton’s “diabolical scheme to lose the election.”

“I don’t know if Hillary Clinton lost the election on her own,” Trump said. “Maybe she asked the Russians to help her lose. But the fact is, Hillary Clinton deliberately plotted to put me in the White House, and the American people should be very angry about that.”
 
LOL, whether this is from a "real" news source or a "fake" news source, it's damn funny!
 
Dee*Jay said:
LOL, whether this is from a "real" news source or a "fake" news source, it's damn funny!
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Ya, I'm pretty certain it was a joke but a really funny one at that! And one that I could actually see as a possibility coming from Mr. President VanNutBag. :lol:
 
From CNN:

November 1, 2017 2:53pm EDT
Trump's aides are trying to talk him out of calling the tax bill by this name
From CNN's MJ Lee

President Trump has been pushing for the tax legislation to be called the “Cut, Cut, Cut” bill, one conservative source who has been in touch with multiple White House officials this week about tax reform tells CNN.

This person added that aides around the President have been “trying to talk him out of it.”
 
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