Find your diamond
Find your jewelry
shape
carat
color
clarity

Tsk Tsk, Tiffany & Co.

AV_

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 5, 2018
Messages
3,884
@Johnbt It works too - I am getting pages worth of WF first from searches around 'a cut above" & diamond etc. I assume that this is not too important, but I'd laugh to land on a royal kingfisher blue page at WF on occassion!
 

the_mother_thing

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Mar 2, 2013
Messages
6,194
We will be looking into it. Technically our trademark is A CUT ABOVE®

However, there is sufficient confusion created here, particularly because the pitch is focused on diamonds of elite cut quality, that it may be a legally enforceable infringement on our trademark.
When I saw the image in the first/original post (before reading anything else in this thread), I honestly thought Tiffany may have engaged in a partnership arrangement of some sort with Whiteflash to improve the cut on some of their diamonds and using the ACA brand. Realizing that isn't the case, I hope WF pursues your legal options here; it’s not right and it IS confusing for anyone who has a degree of familiarity with the ACA brand. Good luck!
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
28,496
WOW. Tiffany must be hurting since consumers don't want to pay for their diamonds when they aren't cut as well as WF, CBI, and other super ideals. It PAINS me when I see people paying two times the cost to have a mediocre tiffany diamond.
But many care more about brand prestige than the light performance (quality).
Image over substance.

Honestly, I'm astonished Tiff doesn't jump onto the light performance bandwagon ... oh ... and use an independent gem lab like GIA or AGS.
 

Mamajemmy

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 6, 2020
Messages
270
But many care more about brand prestige than the light performance (quality).
Image over substance.

Honestly, I'm astonished Tiff doesn't jump onto the light performance bandwagon ... oh ... and use an independent gem lab like GIA or AGS.
I think if they did use GIA or AGS they’d lose customers who would realize that they could get the same stats for much less. There are still so many people who believe that a Tiffany graded diamond > any other lab.
 

daisygrl

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Dec 30, 2019
Messages
373
I think if they did use GIA or AGS they’d lose customers who would realize that they could get the same stats for much less. There are still so many people who believe that a Tiffany graded diamond > any other lab.
Agreed. In many people's mind, when they buy a Tiffany diamond, they want Tiffany everything, including a Tiffany lab certificate to justify the price. They hold a belief that other labs are inferior to Tiffany. :roll: Most people understand - super ideal = Tiffany. The brand thrives off of its history.
 

VeryUndecided

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 1, 2020
Messages
96
I think if they did use GIA or AGS they’d lose customers who would realize that they could get the same stats for much less. There are still so many people who believe that a Tiffany graded diamond > any other lab.
I am not sure that this is true. Are you sure?

Possibly, the customers would find out that Tiffany's has a brand name to uphold and they are keeping their scoring on par with GIA or AGS. I do not see anything to disprove it except unvalidated statements of online diamond sellers and customers (which might or might not be true). Why would an online diamond vendor have a better motivation than "analog-store-front " Tiffany's? They are both a business.
 

Mamajemmy

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 6, 2020
Messages
270
I am not sure that this is true. Are you sure?

Possibly, the customers would find out that Tiffany's has a brand name to uphold and they are keeping their scoring on par with GIA or AGS. I do not see anything to disprove it except unvalidated statements of online diamond sellers and customers (which might or might not be true). Why would an online diamond vendor have a better motivation than "analog-store-front " Tiffany's? They are both a business.
Of course I’m not sure at all. This guess is just based on my experience with psychology and marketing in my career.

And don’t get me wrong— I love and have a good handful Tiffany pieces. Most are more intricate or very Tiffany specific. My thoughts with the engagement ring were that mostly what you are paying for is the stone (even though I adore the 6 prong classic setting) and to sell the idea that a particular Tiffany diamond is worth twice as much as a non Tiffany with the same stats— they have to do something different— therefore different grading lab. If you can buy a Mercedes at one dealership or go to another dealership and buy the same one with the exact same upgrades for half the cost, maybe people would do that— so Tiffany’s needs to find a way to say— this is how we are different. Perhaps it’s just the customer service or the idea of one stop shop as I’ve never seen a bad Tiffany’s diamond but I think doing their own grading is just one more way to say that their stones are different. And many people are more familiar with Tiffany vs. GIA or AGS and they will believe a Tiffany grading report is superior, even if it’s the same.

I hope that makes sense. I’m definitely not trying to knock your stunning ring. It’s amazing!
 

soxfan

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jun 20, 2013
Messages
4,804
I think if they did use GIA or AGS they’d lose customers who would realize that they could get the same stats for much less. There are still so many people who believe that a Tiffany graded diamond > any other lab.
I agree. They would post the cert here and see that they could get a much better cut diamond for half the price!
 

lovedogs

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 31, 2014
Messages
11,073
I think if they did use GIA or AGS they’d lose customers who would realize that they could get the same stats for much less. There are still so many people who believe that a Tiffany graded diamond > any other lab.
This. They are counting on people believing their diamonds are somehow better than others even though they arent. They are no better than GIA XXX, and are almost certainly not AGS000. So having the cert likely would lose them business
 

VeryUndecided

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 1, 2020
Messages
96
This. They are counting on people believing their diamonds are somehow better than others even though they arent. They are no better than GIA XXX, and are almost certainly not AGS000. So having the cert likely would lose them business
But how do we know for sure? Perhaps we should all buy a bunch of Tiffany's diamonds and have them evaluated (GiA and AGS) to know once and for all.

Why do we assume that the negative thesis (for Tiffany's) is the truth? How about the thesis that if Tiffany's accepted GIA XXX and AGS000, we would find out, that the Tiffany's grading is consistently superior to both and it would hurt both GIA and AGS.

As it is, we simply do not know what the truth is. It would have to be tested and proven. Claims without proof are just rumours. I would love to find out the facts.

To quote the late (and fabulous) Joan Rivers: do not ever economise on luxury! :D
 

Mamajemmy

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 6, 2020
Messages
270
But how do we know for sure? Perhaps we should all buy a bunch of Tiffany's diamonds and have them evaluated (GiA and AGS) to know once and for all.

Why do we assume that the negative thesis (for Tiffany's) is the truth? How about the thesis that if Tiffany's accepted GIA XXX and AGS000, we would find out, that the Tiffany's grading is consistently superior to both and it would hurt both GIA and AGS.

As it is, we simply do not know what the truth is. It would have to be tested and proven. Claims without proof are just rumours. I would love to find out the facts.

To quote the late (and fabulous) Joan Rivers: do not ever economise on luxury! :D
This would be very interesting! Send yours in to AGS and let’s see!
 

VeryUndecided

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 1, 2020
Messages
96
This would be very interesting! Send yours in to AGS and let’s see!
You know what? I’d be tempted to do it :D And vice versa. People should send their ideals for evaluation with Tiffany’s and see what happens. Test the thesis both ways. We can push all the standards higher.

But then I’d have to part with it :D How long would it take? From Europe? So maybe next year once I get bored of the sparkle :D
 
  • Like
Reactions: JrJ

Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 3, 2004
Messages
31,859
Why do we assume that the negative thesis (for Tiffany's) is the truth? How about the thesis that if Tiffany's accepted GIA XXX and AGS000, we would find out, that the Tiffany's grading is consistently superior to both and it would hurt both GIA and AGS.
IIRC Tiff's stones were graded by GIA in the past??.

Had you bought a Tiff ring say 15 yrs ago?? the ring came with both GIA report & a Tiff & Co. certificate...IIRC.

I don't think Tiff overgrade their stones but their prices are too rich for my blood,but if you must have a Tiff & Co. ring & the blue box then you must buy from Tiff.
 

Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 3, 2004
Messages
31,859
But then I’d have to part with it :D How long would it take? From Europe? So maybe next year once I get bored of the sparkle :D
Don't do it!, b/c you would need to remove the stone from its setting before you can send it to GIA or AGS for grading.
 
Joined
Apr 22, 2020
Messages
264
But how do we know for sure? Perhaps we should all buy a bunch of Tiffany's diamonds and have them evaluated (GiA and AGS) to know once and for all.

Why do we assume that the negative thesis (for Tiffany's) is the truth? How about the thesis that if Tiffany's accepted GIA XXX and AGS000, we would find out, that the Tiffany's grading is consistently superior to both and it would hurt both GIA and AGS.

As it is, we simply do not know what the truth is. It would have to be tested and proven. Claims without proof are just rumours. I would love to find out the facts.

To quote the late (and fabulous) Joan Rivers: do not ever economise on luxury! :D
I read a post by a guy who runs a diamond information website (https://beyond4cs.com/reviews/tiffany/) where he reviews Tiffany’s diamonds against WhiteFlash/James Allen and goes to give some more information in the comments as well. I am not very knowledgeable about diamonds but he concludes basically that Tiffany’s offers some well cut but not the best cut diamonds at a significantly high premium.

To add: I do think that the premium can be worth it for some: the buying experience, the brand name etc. People will always have different priorities and it’s not like Tiffany is selling chunks of dead glass, their diamonds are reasonably well cut and beautiful :) just quite expensive at a significant mark up. it’s a question of budget and priorities, but I do think on the whole they are not as consistent as GIA/AGS and it is possible to get a better cut diamond at a much lower price elsewhere. Especially with round diamonds grading is really a science with parameters for both labs available online.
 
Last edited:

WillyDiamond

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 7, 2004
Messages
1,291
Tiffany’s has fantastic marketing. People believe due to their advertising that their diamonds are the best and if you buy it, you can give that special woman in your life the baby blue outer box. And it works. The enthusiasts who buy on this forum probably make up 1-2% of all diamond buyers. The masses of people never heard of PS. I am a watch enthusiast, and when I go into a Rolex boutique I often strike up a conversation with a person looking to buy. They have never heard of the the watch forums, and how much you can learn and the for sale section.
 

soxfan

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jun 20, 2013
Messages
4,804
But how do we know for sure? Perhaps we should all buy a bunch of Tiffany's diamonds and have them evaluated (GiA and AGS) to know once and for all.

Why do we assume that the negative thesis (for Tiffany's) is the truth? How about the thesis that if Tiffany's accepted GIA XXX and AGS000, we would find out, that the Tiffany's grading is consistently superior to both and it would hurt both GIA and AGS.

As it is, we simply do not know what the truth is. It would have to be tested and proven. Claims without proof are just rumours. I would love to find out the facts.

To quote the late (and fabulous) Joan Rivers: do not ever economise on luxury! :D
It sounds like you are second-guessing your purchase or you WANT to believe that tiffany diamonds are the best and WF, CBI, and other AGS 000 vendors are lying.

You can quote Joan Rivers all you want, but you didn't listen to us when we gave you advice, you wanted a tiffany diamond, you gave into your husband who HAD to buy retail, everyone said that is fine and were gracious enough to tell you their preference of the stones you posted and you still come here to challenage everyone and seek validiation.

I'm not trying to be rude, but none of us are going to send our diamonds to Tiffany when we already have AGS 000 reports. :roll:
 

Jimmianne

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 9, 2013
Messages
6,077
When I had my Tiffany ring appraised I was told that a replacement from Tiffany would be around 50k, but that the non-Tiffany replacement value would be around 24k. It’s a pretty 2.5ct stone, but definitely not cut to PS standards.
 

Garry H (Cut Nut)

Super_Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 15, 2000
Messages
15,320
IIRC Tiff's stones were graded by GIA in the past??. Had you bought a Tiff ring say 15 yrs ago?? the ring came with both GIA report & a Tiff & Co. certificate...IIRC.
I don't think Tiff overgrade their stones but their prices are too rich for my blood,but if you must have a Tiff & Co. ring & the blue box then you must buy from Tiff.
Correct DF. I think it was not a coincidence that Tiffany stopped using GIA about the same time as Certifigate.
A dealer was regulary having lunch at the same cafe as a senior GIA grader who was given nice vacations by the dealer.
The dealer would mention that there may be a 70ct D Flawless coming in today. Happened at least twice.
Later a salesrep in Saudi Arabia nearly had his right hand chopped off for offering large E VVS diamonds to the Royal Family as D IF's.

The sad part was Bill Boyajian, the President of GIA, resigned and replacement Lawyer who did the GG course for fun changed the culture. That included stomping over my HCA patent using DLA Piper top lawyers out $gunning$ me.
End or rant

 

Grymera

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Nov 26, 2017
Messages
106
I think this is likely a huge marketing fail. While print ads and television campaigns would have legal review, I would be surprised if the digital marketing branch of a company would go through the same level of vigor for an email or website update. Hopefully Whiteflash can defend their trademark and it's a good resolution for all. Regardless of the cause of the mistake, it's completely unacceptable. If I were in Tiffany marketing I'd be sweating bullets and pulling it immediately.
 

Jsand

Shiny_Rock
Joined
May 6, 2019
Messages
177
Tiffany’s has fantastic marketing. People believe due to their advertising that their diamonds are the best and if you buy it, you can give that special woman in your life the baby blue outer box. And it works. The enthusiasts who buy on this forum probably make up 1-2% of all diamond buyers. The masses of people never heard of PS. I am a watch enthusiast, and when I go into a Rolex boutique I often strike up a conversation with a person looking to buy. They have never heard of the the watch forums, and how much you can learn and the for sale section.
Which watch forums would you recommend? Definitely interested in the for sale sections!
 

VeryUndecided

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 1, 2020
Messages
96
Correct DF. I think it was not a coincidence that Tiffany stopped using GIA about the same time as Certifigate.
A dealer was regulary having lunch at the same cafe as a senior GIA grader who was given nice vacations by the dealer.
The dealer would mention that there may be a 70ct D Flawless coming in today. Happened at least twice.
Later a salesrep in Saudi Arabia nearly had his right hand chopped off for offering large E VVS diamonds to the Royal Family as D IF's.

The sad part was Bill Boyajian, the President of GIA, resigned and replacement Lawyer who did the GG course for fun changed the culture. That included stomping over my HCA patent using DLA Piper top lawyers out $gunning$ me.
End or rant


This was very informative. Live and learn.
 

meesmom

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 25, 2015
Messages
412
Of course I’m not sure at all. This guess is just based on my experience with psychology and marketing in my career.

And don’t get me wrong— I love and have a good handful Tiffany pieces. Most are more intricate or very Tiffany specific. My thoughts with the engagement ring were that mostly what you are paying for is the stone (even though I adore the 6 prong classic setting) and to sell the idea that a particular Tiffany diamond is worth twice as much as a non Tiffany with the same stats— they have to do something different— therefore different grading lab. If you can buy a Mercedes at one dealership or go to another dealership and buy the same one with the exact same upgrades for half the cost, maybe people would do that— so Tiffany’s needs to find a way to say— this is how we are different. Perhaps it’s just the customer service or the idea of one stop shop as I’ve never seen a bad Tiffany’s diamond but I think doing their own grading is just one more way to say that their stones are different. And many people are more familiar with Tiffany vs. GIA or AGS and they will believe a Tiffany grading report is superior, even if it’s the same.

I hope that makes sense. I’m definitely not trying to knock your stunning ring. It’s amazing!
Totally agree. I bought a pair of pre-owned Tiffany diamond studs, under the understanding that the paperwork was misplaced and not included, and priced accordingly. Imagine my surprise a few weeks later when i recieved a fat envelope from the seller with ALL the paperwork :-oincluding the original Tiffany certs. I knew the value of the earrings probably close to doubled just bc of those certs!!
Btw, the diamonds are pretty terrible, and one scores in the 3s and the other in the 4s on the ACA. But i love them anyway!! :)
 

Garry H (Cut Nut)

Super_Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 15, 2000
Messages
15,320
Imagine my surprise a fat envelope from the seller with ALL the paperwork :-oincluding the original Tiffany certs. Btw, the diamonds are pretty terrible, and one scores in the 3s and the other in the 4s on the ACA. But i love them anyway!! :)
I am going to sue you for calling HCA ACA hahahahaha
 

WillyDiamond

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 7, 2004
Messages
1,291
Jsand, my favorite watch forum is The Rolex Forum, TRF.
They have a very active enthusiast site plus a very active for sale section.
Stay away from EBay, lots of scams. Same with Craigslist.
Even on the watch forum, there are scams, be careful. We have an expression, ”don’t buy the watch, buy the seller”
Good luck.
 
Be a part of the community It's free, join today!
    Radiant Ruby Cluster Ring
    Radiant Ruby Cluster Ring
    Recutting And Resetting A Heirloom
    Recutting And Resetting A Heirloom
    Princess Diana: Timeless Jewelry Every Woman Should Own
    Princess Diana: Timeless Jewelry Every Woman Should Own

Need Something Special?

Get a quote from multiple trusted and vetted jewelers.

Holloway Cut Advisor



Diamond Eye Candy

Click to view full-size image.
Top