To fluor or not to fluor?

[lin_ny]

Hi all!!

In my search for an OEC/tranny I've come across a few with strong blue fluorescence. Looking at the pictures, I can't often tell it has fluor at all. I've heard they can look milky/cloudy in certain lighting... not sure if this is even true.

From what I've read around here, some people love their fluor, and some wouldn't touch a diamond w/fluor with a 10 foot pole. I know it's probably just personal preference, but I'm wondering how fluor really affects diamonds and the pros/cons. At this point in my search, I just really don't wanna turn down a diamond w/fluor just because I'm not educated on it.

Just looking for opinions. Thanks!

 

[Gypsy]

It's true that SOME diamonds with strong or very strong blue can look milky. Not all do though, and the ones that don't are well loved on here and coveted even. The only way you can tell if the stone you are evaluating has it is to know what to look for and examine it-- or take it to an appraiser and have them tell you if it is showing any negative effect.

 

[GirlyGirl]

Check this out. Really cool.

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/come-see-very-strong-blue-fluorescence-versus-none.104988/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/come-see-very-strong-blue-fluorescence-versus-none.104988/[/URL]

 

[yssie]

Hi all!!

In my search for an OEC/tranny I've come across a few with strong blue fluorescence. Looking at the pictures, I can't often tell it has fluor at all. I've heard they can look milky/cloudy in certain lighting... not sure if this is even true.

From what I've read around here, some people love their fluor, and some wouldn't touch a diamond w/fluor with a 10 foot pole. I know it's probably just personal preference, but I'm wondering how fluor really affects diamonds and the pros/cons. At this point in my search, I just really don't wanna turn down a diamond w/fluor just because I'm not educated on it.

Just looking for opinions. Thanks!

Garry has talked about this being an aggregate effect of fluor + scattered pervasive inclusions (clouds, etc.) - the literature (specifically the lack of any accredited sources willing to assign blame for "milkines"/"haziness" directly to strong fluor alone) supports this.. So I personally wouldn't even begin to worry until I run into VSB + SI2/I1 w/ clouds/wisps/feathers/pinpoints/whatever, and then I'd just ask the vendor!

I like fluor

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I agree with Yssie that I wouldn't be concerned about SBF at all. I wouldn't want a really low clarity stone anyway, so I think as long as you get reasonably good clarity, the fluoro is a plus especially if the stone color is I or lower. I have a G with SBF and love it!

 

[canuk-gal]

HI:

Once you become "educated"...you still have to decide.

For me, NO flour.

cheers--Sharon

 

[lin_ny]

Gypsy - Know what to look for? What is that exactly... haha! I'm clueless I guess my big thing is... we're gonna be buying a diamond online and since fluor can be either a desirable or a quite undesirable trait, I'm wondering if I should just avoid it completely.

GirlyGirl - Very cool, indeed! Not sure I really prefer the one with fluor though.

Yssie - Would I just be asking if it makes it look milky/oily/cloudy? Thanks for the suggestions. I'll keep those parameters in mind now when I'm shopping.

diamondseeker2006 - Most OECs/trannies I've seen online are SI1/SI2 or at most, VS2. Is fluor passable in these clarity grades?

canuk-gal - True. Any particular reason you don't prefer it?

 

[yssie]

Yssie - Would I just be asking if it makes it look milky/oily/cloudy?

Yup, pretty much! If it looks milky/oily/cloudy in long wave UV.

 

[Gypsy]

Gypsy - Know what to look for? What is that exactly... haha! I'm clueless I guess my big thing is... we're gonna be buying a diamond online and since fluor can be either a desirable or a quite undesirable trait, I'm wondering if I should just avoid it completely.

Regardless of whether you decide to get a diamond with fluor, you should go with a vendor that has the diamonds in stock, and has gemologists that can evaluate them. Just as you would ask that vendor if the diamond is eyeclean, you can ask if a diamond with fluor is having negative effects. It's something a trained gemologist can tell you, before you buy.

Also, if you want a round brilliant, you can go with a Blue Line diamond from BGD http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamond/brian-gavins-blue-diamonds-with-fluorescence/ Each one has fluor and has been pre-screened for no negative effect so you can be sure each stone is safe in that respect.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

She's looking for an OEC/tranny, though, Gypsy. And since most of those are lower color, I would think the fluorescence would be a plus.

I just wouldn't buy one that didn't have a return policy, and I wouldn't buy SI2 to avoid the possible issues Yssie mentioned. But I'd probably try for VS2 just because the larger facets may not hide inclusions as well as a MRB does.

 

[Gypsy]

She's looking for an OEC/tranny, though, Gypsy. And since most of those are lower color, I would think the fluorescence would be a plus.

I just wouldn't buy one that didn't have a return policy, and I wouldn't buy SI2 to avoid the possible issues Yssie mentioned. But I'd probably try for VS2 just because the larger facets may not hide inclusions as well as a MRB does.

Whoops. Reading comprehension fail.

I'd take the chance on one. A good FULL appraisal is only about 85-150 bucks. And an appraisal for a single thing, flour., should cost much less (less time, no written documentation needed). I wouldn't expect to pay more than 25 bucks to have someone check it for that.

 

[jstarfireb]

From what I understand about fluor, an "overblue" (milky/hazy in sunlight) is extremely rare, and most diamonds of medium to strong blue fluorescence have no untoward effects. IMO, fluor is beautiful and cool and can only benefit you (except in the rare case we all are mentioning). You get the benefit of making a lower color appear whiter and/or the cool electric blue glow under a UV penlight or in sunlight. I actually bought a UV penlight to view the fluor in my medium blue stone because I was disappointed that I couldn't see it in sunlight!

Bottom line: Fluor is much more likely to be awesome than a bummer. Go for it!

 

[Niel]

Bottom line: Fluor is much more likely to be awesome than a bummer. Go for it!

Do it! My diamond is a fluor and i was a bit nerdy about wanting that. Sure you may only see it some of the time but when you do its so neat! And plus if you buy it online the vendor should be able to tell you if your specific diamond has negative cloudiness. Worse case senario they say it does and you find a diff neat fluor without a milky undertone

 

[lin_ny]

Yssie - Can it look milky/cloudy/oily under regular lighting with fluor? That's the only thing I'd be afraid of, really!

Gypsy - As far as certs go, all stones on JbEG come with EGL certs (usually). I know the GIA is heavily favoured though - it's more accurate with colour and clarity grading, correct? I suppose I could send it off to GIA for a more accurate assessment but I also trust JbEG with their observations/opinions on stones so I'm not sure it'd really be necessary. It's more important to me that I love how the stone looks than to know the accurate details. Alternatively, I also know a gemologist who I could take it to and he'd happily look at it for me.

diamondseeker2006 - Avoiding SI2 is gonna be tough... but I think I'll aim for higher than that if it has SBF. Thanks for the suggestion!

jstarfireb - Wow, you just got me all fired up on fluor! Would it glow at the glow in the dark bowling? That would be SO COOL.

nielseel - Cool to hear you sought it out. Looks like I won't be avoiding it like I thought I should... thanks for helping me be more open to it!

 

[Gypsy]

[
Gypsy - As far as certs go, all stones on JbEG come with EGL certs (usually). I know the GIA is heavily favoured though - it's more accurate with colour and clarity grading, correct? I suppose I could send it off to GIA for a more accurate assessment but I also trust JbEG with their observations/opinions on stones so I'm not sure it'd really be necessary. It's more important to me that I love how the stone looks than to know the accurate details. Alternatively, I also know a gemologist who I could take it to and he'd happily look at it for me.

If it's at JBEG I wouldn't worry about it. ASK THEM if it's got any negative effects from the fluor. They can even send it to Dave Atlas if you are truly worried.

I didn't know you were buying from JBEG, I thought it was some ebay vendor or a pawn shop.

 

[lin_ny]

[
Gypsy - As far as certs go, all stones on JbEG come with EGL certs (usually). I know the GIA is heavily favoured though - it's more accurate with colour and clarity grading, correct? I suppose I could send it off to GIA for a more accurate assessment but I also trust JbEG with their observations/opinions on stones so I'm not sure it'd really be necessary. It's more important to me that I love how the stone looks than to know the accurate details. Alternatively, I also know a gemologist who I could take it to and he'd happily look at it for me.

If it's at JBEG I wouldn't worry about it. ASK THEM if it's got any negative effects from the fluor. They can even send it to Dave Atlas if you are truly worried.

I didn't know you were buying from JBEG, I thought it was some ebay vendor or a pawn shop.

JbEG seems to have the best balance of selection, price, and reputation/trustworthy-ness. I'll likely buy a diamond from them.

I am still open to Ebay and other avenues (because our budget is quite tight). I check every day just in case I come across something promising. Mostly trying to educate myself in the event I find something killer on Ebay (like so many folks around here have!!). It won't be my first choice though.

 

[Enerchi]

If I had the option to choose between one with fluoro (no ill effects) and without, both in the diamond of my chosen preference and all things being equal---- I'd be all over the fluoro one like white on rice!!! As far as I know, none of my diamonds have it and after seeing the fluorescent thread, I'm wishing I had some of that blue action!!

 

[Niel]

- Wow, you just got me all fired up on fluor! Would it glow at the glow in the dark bowling? That

It sure should

 

[ariel144]

Being that "fancy blue" diamonds are so very rare and VERY expensive...if you can find a stone with strong blue fl. that is not milky or cloudy/oily then by all means I would buy it, if it is a great cut. It can make a lower color stone look more white as well. I remember a GOG video where Jonathan stated that only a very small % of fl. in stones were milky or oily...in about 99% of stones it would not have that negative effect.

So you have Brian Gavin's "blue" line which is awesome and this great antique stone on JBEG that is definitely "hubba hubba!" with the blue color showing in the outdoor lighting. It gives a diamond so much personality IMO....plus it can discount the cost of a stone if it has SBF or VSB.

two pages of photos and videos gives you a great picture of medium blue fl. in this OEC...enjoy!

http://jewelsbyericagrace.smugmug.com/Jewelry/Rings-Antique-Vintage/356ct-Loose-Old-European-Cut/19804036_Qxwpx5#!i=1610940947&k=nKKGh89

 

[lin_ny]

Being that "fancy blue" diamonds are so very rare and VERY expensive...if you can find a stone with strong blue fl. that is not milky or cloudy/oily then by all means I would buy it, if it is a great cut. It can make a lower color stone look more white as well. I remember a GOG video where Jonathan stated that only a very small % of fl. in stones were milky or oily...in about 99% of stones it would not have that negative effect.

So you have Brian Gavin's "blue" line which is awesome and this great antique stone on JBEG that is definitely "hubba hubba!" with the blue color showing in the outdoor lighting. It gives a diamond so much personality IMO....plus it can discount the cost of a stone if it has SBF or VSB.

two pages of photos and videos gives you a great picture of medium blue fl. in this OEC...enjoy!

http://jewelsbyericagrace.smugmug.com/Jewelry/Rings-Antique-Vintage/356ct-Loose-Old-European-Cut/19804036_Qxwpx5#!i=1610940947&k=nKKGh89

O

M

G



That might be the most beautiful OEC I've ever seen. Now, shrink that down to approx 1 ct. and cut the price by 90-95% and I'll take it.

Okay, all that aside. I really do see that the fluor isn't affecting the diamond negatively at all. In fact, it does look really amazing in the sun! Wow, what a delicious, beautiful diamond. Ahhhh.

 

[lin_ny]

If I had the option to choose between one with fluoro (no ill effects) and without, both in the diamond of my chosen preference and all things being equal---- I'd be all over the fluoro one like white on rice!!! As far as I know, none of my diamonds have it and after seeing the fluorescent thread, I'm wishing I had some of that blue action!!

Point taken

(p.s. I've been oogling your most recent OEC purchase... it's totally lovely and I'm insanely jealous )

 

[mama_monkey]

Hi everyone

I clicked on this discussion because I ended up with a MRB with strong blue fluor, E color from Blue Nile (i know Blue Nile is not looked upon favorably on this site -- but I fell in love with a setting that no one else seemed to even remotely have). I chose that stone because it got high marks on the HCA and seemed to be the best deal. I was also nerdily intrigued with the blue flour, and found out only after purchase (on PS of course) that it might look milky.

Grace of JbEG (of all people!) took a look at it under a loupe and told me she didn't detect any milkiness (I had planned to chuck the MRB for an OEC so I met with Grace and planned to buy a stone from her, but ultimately I just couldn't let go of that blue nile setting, so now I"m going to save up and buy an OEC from Jbeg in a few months -- [URL='/user#']/user#[/URL] but this is another story. . . ).

Anyways, my stone definitely looks lavender-ish blue-ish in the sun and I absolutely LOVE how "colorful" it is.[URL='/user#']/user#[/URL] I know OEC owners often talk about how chameleon-like their stones are, whereas MRBs are more straightforward . . . Well, I feel like I'm getting some of that changeability with my MRB. So I definitely encourage you to try it!

As for your budget and buying from JbEG: You probably already know this, but I thought I'd point out that at DB there is currently an L colored diamond with some fluor that is for sale for $2500 or $2600. It looks like a very pretty stone. I was looking at JbEG site around the same time that she bought it from them (July/August 2012) and I remember thinking she got a great deal -- because it was significantly less than the other stones which were closer to a carat with a higher color.

(I did a lot of number crunching to see if I might be able to buy this particular stone, but it's impossible for me at the moment. . . [URL='/user#']/user#[/URL] )

 

[mama_monkey]

oops. I'm such a computer idiot i don't know how to do the cute smilies. . .

 

[lin_ny]

Mama, do you have any pics of your stone showing it's personality?

 

[Enerchi]

If I had the option to choose between one with fluoro (no ill effects) and without, both in the diamond of my chosen preference and all things being equal---- I'd be all over the fluoro one like white on rice!!! As far as I know, none of my diamonds have it and after seeing the fluorescent thread, I'm wishing I had some of that blue action!!

Point taken

(p.s. I've been oogling your most recent OEC purchase... it's totally lovely and I'm insanely jealous )

Oh, thank you so much lin_ny! I'm kinda fond of her... I don't know if it has fluoro - I sort of think if it did both the vendor and the appraiser would have mentioned it, but I sat with the appraiser and there was no UV light use, so I guess not. oh well --- I guess *another* diamond is in order! HAHAHAHA!

I may have missed the details, but what size OEC are you looking for?

 

[lin_ny]

Well, ideally under $4k. I wish I could be over a carat for that price but I don't think that's gonna happen. I think to maximize the budget we'll have to be just shy of a carat... anywhere from .90-.99. I keep seeing the 1.00-1.30 range and that seems AWESOME but that won't happen unless a miracle happens. Or we win the lottery.

 

[Gypsy]

Well, ideally under $4k. I wish I could be over a carat for that price but I don't think that's gonna happen. I think to maximize the budget we'll have to be just shy of a carat... anywhere from .90-.99. I keep seeing the 1.00-1.30 range and that seems AWESOME but that won't happen unless a miracle happens. Or we win the lottery.

Budget is totally doable on ebay.

 

[Enerchi]

Well, ideally under $4k. I wish I could be over a carat for that price but I don't think that's gonna happen. I think to maximize the budget we'll have to be just shy of a carat... anywhere from .90-.99. I keep seeing the 1.00-1.30 range and that seems AWESOME but that won't happen unless a miracle happens. Or we win the lottery.

Budget is totally doable on ebay.

+1 to doable on eBay!

 

[lin_ny]

Well, ideally under $4k. I wish I could be over a carat for that price but I don't think that's gonna happen. I think to maximize the budget we'll have to be just shy of a carat... anywhere from .90-.99. I keep seeing the 1.00-1.30 range and that seems AWESOME but that won't happen unless a miracle happens. Or we win the lottery.

Budget is totally doable on ebay.

There's a .91 for $2500 that seems promising but they aren't returning my e-mails/messages about wanting to see more pictures and video. Sigh.

There's a lot of those 'diamond concierge' listings on ebay and a few seem decent spec-wise but no pics. Otherwise I'm not having the best luck finding stuff there.

 

[lin_ny]

+1 to doable on eBay!

Also, I'm terrified of ebay. Also, my boyfriend tells me I should stop looking because he's not ready to buy something. I just can't help myself. When a good thing comes along, I wanna be able to snatch it up!!