swingirl
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Home Tips on handling a "spirited child"?
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TravelingGal
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MrsM, you know how I feel about it. The best behaved children in my group are the ones who are properly spanked. I will definitely say that most people do not know how to properly spank a child. If I were to guess, I''d say 90% of the general population do not. I would also say that some of the worst behaved children are the ones who are not spanked, but beaten often in frustration or anger. Spanking should never occur IMHO when the parent in frustrated and angry, but most of us who know spankers do exactly that.
Why is why, again IMHO, if you don''t know how to properly spank a child, you should stay the hell away from doing it.
purrfectpear
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Well, in the olden days you took them out and left them in the car. It worked wonders
Since that won''t fly now, in the example you gave at the restaurant she needs to be willing to inconvenience herself. Too many mothers won''t discipline because it''s more work for them. I would have told him he could mind or the lunch was over and he''d be going to the car. Count to 3, then grab him out of the highchair and take him screaming through the restaurant to the car. Buckle him in the seat, and shut the door. Mommy can stand on the outside of the car. No reason why she should have to listen to him bleat. In a half hour or so he''ll sob his sorry self out. Then mom can dry his tears, talk about minding and staying calm and ask if he thinks he''d like to go back and sit down.
Sure it''s a pain. Sure it ruins the lunch. Better a ruined lunch/dinner/shopping outing a half dozen times until he learns she means it, than an out of control kiddo with no boundaries.
Honestly I just don''t get parents who let the toddler set the rules.
For the parents who claim the little prince "just won''t stop", they need to remind themselves that after 30 years, they should be stronger willed than a 2 year old
Since that won''t fly now, in the example you gave at the restaurant she needs to be willing to inconvenience herself. Too many mothers won''t discipline because it''s more work for them. I would have told him he could mind or the lunch was over and he''d be going to the car. Count to 3, then grab him out of the highchair and take him screaming through the restaurant to the car. Buckle him in the seat, and shut the door. Mommy can stand on the outside of the car. No reason why she should have to listen to him bleat. In a half hour or so he''ll sob his sorry self out. Then mom can dry his tears, talk about minding and staying calm and ask if he thinks he''d like to go back and sit down.
Sure it''s a pain. Sure it ruins the lunch. Better a ruined lunch/dinner/shopping outing a half dozen times until he learns she means it, than an out of control kiddo with no boundaries.
Honestly I just don''t get parents who let the toddler set the rules.
For the parents who claim the little prince "just won''t stop", they need to remind themselves that after 30 years, they should be stronger willed than a 2 year old
TravelingGal
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PP, I totally agree and this is the method I will use with Amelia if she breaks down at a restaurant. I won''t let her stay in it because as swingirl says, it''s not fair to the patrons. I also play to stay in the outside of the car until she calms down...I think being IN the car only causes them to freak out more.Date: 2/25/2010 3:55:53 PM
Author: purrfectpear
Well, in the olden days you took them out and left them in the car. It worked wonders
Since that won''t fly now, in the example you gave at the restaurant she needs to be willing to inconvenience herself. Too many mothers won''t discipline because it''s more work for them. I would have told him he could mind or the lunch was over and he''d be going to the car. Count to 3, then grab him out of the highchair and take him screaming through the restaurant to the car. Buckle him in the seat, and shut the door. Mommy can stand on the outside of the car. No reason why she should have to listen to him bleat. In a half hour or so he''ll sob his sorry self out. Then mom can dry his tears, talk about minding and staying calm and ask if he thinks he''d like to go back and sit down.
Sure it''s a pain. Sure it ruins the lunch. Better a ruined lunch/dinner/shopping outing a half dozen times until he learns she means it, than an out of control kiddo with no boundaries.
Honestly I just don''t get parents who let the toddler set the rules.
For the parents who claim the little prince ''just won''t stop'', they need to remind themselves that after 30 years, they should be stronger willed than a 2 year old
I don''t know how much she''s willing to inconvenience herself...but that is definitely her problem, isn''t it? Good advice and I agree a lot of parents don''t want to ruin the day. I really was pretty wowed once when my BFF (who is very firm with her kids) told her daughter at Disneyland she needed to stop a certain behavior. The girl tried to test the boundaries again and my friend said, Do that again, and we are leaving Disneyland.
The kid must have been not on her best that day because she did do something and my friend said, that''s it, let''s go. A real bummer considering they were there with other families. But nope, she grabbed everything and left with the kid, who was in tears.
Both her kids are the most well behaved kids I know. Doesn''t mean they don''t still test boundaries, but boy oh boy, they don''t mess with mom.
Thanks for the tips everyone. Young toddlers are harder because they don''t do well with reality based (consequence) parenting. You can tell them way after the fact that Y is happening because they did X 2 hours ago.) Anyway, I''ll file all these tips away for my friend...and myself!
Mrs Mitchell
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I see what you mean. While it would never be something I would choose to do, I do understand the difference you describe. For the parents in my own crowd of friends, it''s started out as an angry reaction and ended up as the discipline method of first choice. I see angry, hurt and often bewildered little people and angry, frustrated adults. Especially when it doesn''t actually stop the behaviour.
One technique used in parenting intervention by social services here is to have a video camera running in the home and have parents review how they interacted with the child during the day (obviously isn''t going to work outside, but it can be used on a day at home). Sometimes it takes a fresh eye - you can see for yourself what worked to keep things calmer, what escalated problems and what started them in the first place. For some people, it helps them figure out the approach they want to take and helps them decide what their boundaries will be. Picking your battles is important, as you''ve said many times. It takes a fair bit of effort to do this, but maybe it would give your friend some perspective?
geckodani
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My mother marched my sister and I straight out of Disneyland and home to our rooms as kids when we weren''t behaving. I vividly remember this, and am pretty sure I never repeated said behavior again.
TGal, I have friends that are the exact same way with both their kids. They never follow through. It makes me crazy, and sad. At Christmas DH made me smack him as hard as I could with the fairy wand we were getting their daughter to make sure it wouldn''t do any damage to her brother, because we KNOW she''ll smack him with it.
TravelingGal
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She actually watches supernanny (I think). It''s a good idea, but not sure if she wants the evidence on tape.
My mom used spanking as one of the few forms of discipline. But no meant no with her, so she didn''t have to use it often. I personally, don''t believe in spanking as a first line of defense, and hopefully not much at all after Amelia reaches a stage when I can reason with her a bit. I use it only when she''s defying me about something dangerous (to date I only have spanked her tushy when she insisted on running into people''s driveways which is a serious no no for me). But in instances like that, it helps. She ran into a couple of driveways, two days in a row. After that, it stopped.
With ANY form of discipline, I think it''s important to show love at some point during the process. Spanking children in anger and frustration is very scary to the child. My cousin was spanked/beat in that way, and of course, still has issues with the whole thing. My mother always explained why she was doing it, was very calm, ONLY hit my bottom (although some people think thigh works better, who knows), then held me, told me she loved me, etc etc. I think because I knew it was a consequence of doing something bad that it never traumatized me. I have no memories or thoughts that my mom just wanted to hit me because she was mad.
But most spanking/hitting I see is usually grabbing a kid by the ear and smacking him upside the head or something like that. That isn''t spanking. That''s taking your frustration out on your kid. Neither is grabbing you kid at home, whacking him and screaming at him to go to his room. TGuy does not do well when he is frustrated or angry. Because of this, and even though I do believe in spanking, I''ve gotten him to agree that he will not be the one to lay a finger on Amelia. My dad beat me in anger a few times. Boy, I knew the difference.
So when it comes down to it MrsM, I''d probably have to admit that most people shouldn''t spank their kids.
OK, my said friend is here...be back in a bit!
Mrs Mitchell
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luckystar112
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I don''t have any kids but I''m taking classroom management courses and here are some of the things we have learned in terms of modifying behavior (of 30 kids, not just 1).
1) Your friend is making threats that she will not follow through on. The "sit down or I''ll spank you! one...two...three....sit down!" is teaching her son that mommy doesn''t do what mommy says she is going to do. He knows his tush is safe and he''s going to do whatever he wants to do. She NEEDS to follow through on anything that she says. Period. And if she''s embarrassed to give a spanking in public she needs to change the consequence to something she will really do......and then do it! Whether that be taking away a toy, leaving the building, whatever, she cannot make threats that she doesn''t not intend to follow.
2) A kid will get away with whatever the adult ALLOWS THEM to get away with....and this is true all the way up through adulthood. The correct behavior needs to be constantly and consistently enforced. Rules mean absolutely nothing. It''s her ACTIONS that determine how the kid will act. And if mommy is intimidated by her 2 year old he will feed off of that and she will never have him under control. If at home her son would be scolded for playing with ice and water, he needs to be scolded in a restaurant as well, or else she is once again sending the message that she is not consistent. I understand that this can be hard, especially since he''s doing something other than screaming....but it still needs to be done. She thinks that she is choosing her battles wisely, but by not enforcing behavior consistently she is losing the battle AND the war.
In classroom management there was an example of bringing your class somewhere else (like the art room or something). You line them up and tell them that if they talk in the halls you are going to go all the way back to the classroom and try it again. You may have to return to the classroom six times before you finally make it to the art room without a peep, and this may feel like an inconvenience or a waste of time, but it is NOT a waste of time in the long run. If on the fourth time you hear whispering but decide to ingnore it because it''s just easier to get them to the art room and be rid of them, it sends the message that you aren''t consistent. With your friend, if she is pregnant she needs to start enforcing the rules NOW. It will save her so much effort in the future when she''s trying to handle 2 kids.
3) It is never too late to change the law, she just needs to actually do it...and not only at her convenience.
Again, I don''t have any kids, but, well, you know....
1) Your friend is making threats that she will not follow through on. The "sit down or I''ll spank you! one...two...three....sit down!" is teaching her son that mommy doesn''t do what mommy says she is going to do. He knows his tush is safe and he''s going to do whatever he wants to do. She NEEDS to follow through on anything that she says. Period. And if she''s embarrassed to give a spanking in public she needs to change the consequence to something she will really do......and then do it! Whether that be taking away a toy, leaving the building, whatever, she cannot make threats that she doesn''t not intend to follow.
2) A kid will get away with whatever the adult ALLOWS THEM to get away with....and this is true all the way up through adulthood. The correct behavior needs to be constantly and consistently enforced. Rules mean absolutely nothing. It''s her ACTIONS that determine how the kid will act. And if mommy is intimidated by her 2 year old he will feed off of that and she will never have him under control. If at home her son would be scolded for playing with ice and water, he needs to be scolded in a restaurant as well, or else she is once again sending the message that she is not consistent. I understand that this can be hard, especially since he''s doing something other than screaming....but it still needs to be done. She thinks that she is choosing her battles wisely, but by not enforcing behavior consistently she is losing the battle AND the war.
In classroom management there was an example of bringing your class somewhere else (like the art room or something). You line them up and tell them that if they talk in the halls you are going to go all the way back to the classroom and try it again. You may have to return to the classroom six times before you finally make it to the art room without a peep, and this may feel like an inconvenience or a waste of time, but it is NOT a waste of time in the long run. If on the fourth time you hear whispering but decide to ingnore it because it''s just easier to get them to the art room and be rid of them, it sends the message that you aren''t consistent. With your friend, if she is pregnant she needs to start enforcing the rules NOW. It will save her so much effort in the future when she''s trying to handle 2 kids.
3) It is never too late to change the law, she just needs to actually do it...and not only at her convenience.
Again, I don''t have any kids, but, well, you know....
MichelleCarmen
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MichelleCarmen
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TravelingGal
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Thanks lucky. I almost think it might be easier to manage 30 kids who aren''t your own than 1 kid who is. Somehow it seems the former seems to allow one to be more objective and regimented...because you have to!
MrsM, no, she didn''t have her kid with her. He''s at home with the nanny.
I should say that a good chunk of the time, this kid is fine. He''s never tried to hit me, doesn''t say much so nothing wrong coming out of his mouth or anything. Mostly whining, crying and screaming if something strikes him as not cool. A lot of the time it''s not the kid that is stressful to me...it''s the ineffective parenting that I''m subjected to witnessing while keeping my mouth shut.
No discussion on the kid today. The only funny thing she said was that the kid who is the front house (theirs is a two on a lot type of thing) came over to play with her kid. He''s one month older than her son and she kind of rolled her eyes and said the neighbor''s kid is definitely a handful because he grabs things and says "mine!". Her son doesn''t really have that issue right now so I guess they way people look at the world is all relative.
I think the grabbing and "mine" stage is all normal child development?
MrsM, no, she didn''t have her kid with her. He''s at home with the nanny.
I should say that a good chunk of the time, this kid is fine. He''s never tried to hit me, doesn''t say much so nothing wrong coming out of his mouth or anything. Mostly whining, crying and screaming if something strikes him as not cool. A lot of the time it''s not the kid that is stressful to me...it''s the ineffective parenting that I''m subjected to witnessing while keeping my mouth shut.
No discussion on the kid today. The only funny thing she said was that the kid who is the front house (theirs is a two on a lot type of thing) came over to play with her kid. He''s one month older than her son and she kind of rolled her eyes and said the neighbor''s kid is definitely a handful because he grabs things and says "mine!". Her son doesn''t really have that issue right now so I guess they way people look at the world is all relative.
I think the grabbing and "mine" stage is all normal child development?
softly softly
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That''s a tough one Tgal - but I have to agree with the others who say your friend needs to stop being scared and start remembering who is in charge. She needs to find the courage and energy to set boundaries and continue to reinforce them and she needs to find the fortitude to outlast him when he has a tantrum and she needs to be on the same page as her husband when dealing with discipline. I''m sure she loves her son more than anything, but does she realise how much damage she is doing by not showing him how to behave appropriately? What about when he gets to preschool and all of a sudden he is presented with boundaries and expectations which is is not equipped to deal with? By not reigning him in she is allowing him to become the sort of child that people find unpleasant to be around.
If his behaviour is consistently problematic when you get together maybe you need to put your friend into time-out? I know it probably feels wrong to contemplate, but how comfortable are in telling her you don''t want to go out with her when she has her son with her because she is unable to get him to behave appropriately? Maybe if she can see how negatively his behaviour impacts upon other''s perceptions of him she will be more motivated to do something about it.
If she is looking for some guidance on how to deal with his behaviour you could suggest she checks out http://www.triplep-america.com it''s a programme based on positive reinforcement that my friend who is a child psychologist often recommends to parents. The idea of positive reinforcement for good behaviour may appeal to your friend.
If his behaviour is consistently problematic when you get together maybe you need to put your friend into time-out? I know it probably feels wrong to contemplate, but how comfortable are in telling her you don''t want to go out with her when she has her son with her because she is unable to get him to behave appropriately? Maybe if she can see how negatively his behaviour impacts upon other''s perceptions of him she will be more motivated to do something about it.
If she is looking for some guidance on how to deal with his behaviour you could suggest she checks out http://www.triplep-america.com it''s a programme based on positive reinforcement that my friend who is a child psychologist often recommends to parents. The idea of positive reinforcement for good behaviour may appeal to your friend.
Dreamer_D
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I would not leave the child in the car alone, just to clarify. I would sit beside him or in the front seat at the most, or I would stand beside the car with the door open. The car is not a jail where the kid should be left alone. I would want my son to know I was there and he was safe, but that his behaviour was not ok.
TravelingGal
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LOL, not sure how any adult (and mom) would react to this. And usually he''s actually behaving, but doing this that are in MY OPINION kind of unkosher...like standing up in a booth chair and making the person behind us turn around. Making a huge mess with ice, etc. She asks him to stop throwing, but of course he doesn''t (however this just started happening so the next time I just might step in when he''s throwing something at me and be firm).
Speaking of preschool, I''ve heard some kids really behaving well in school because they aren''t allowed to get away with much, but are much tougher at home. Anyone else hear of something like this? I also hear things often like the kid naps in preschool and the parents are amazed because the kid won''t nap at home. Makes sense because the no-nonsense boundaries are there in school. I do think though that he''s in for a bit of a shock when he goes to preschool, at least in the beginning. But my bet is that he will adapt quickly to preschool (he''s no dummy) but continue to push it at home.
Dreamer_D
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I would leave him until he calmed down. Part of the time out process is the act of learning to calm down. In fact, if they calm down sooner than 1-2 minutes, they can come out. The developmental psychologist on the show I spoke of, Life's Real Families, says that the time spent in time out doesn't matter at all. It is the shock of being removed from the stimulating environment that allows the kid to sort of reboot, focus on the parent and actually hear when the parent says "No throwing". The time is not a punishemnt, but a tool to allow them to calm down and refocus. So if it was my son and he would scream for an hour, I would patiently check on him every couple of minutes but he would not be allowed to leave the calm quiet area until he was calm and quiet. Its like CIO, right?
TravelingGal
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Thanks DD, so it sounds like I am doing it "correctly." Time out is a new concept for me, since my mom never did it when we are growing up. I think it''s a good one so it''s a technique I want to use.Date: 2/25/2010 6:22:02 PM
Author: dreamer_dachsie
I would leave him until he calmed down. Part of the time out process is the act of learning to calm down. In fact, if they calm down sooner than 1-2 minutes, they can come out. The developmental psychologist on the show I spoke of, Life''s Real Families, says that the time spent in time out doesn''t matter at all. It is the shock of being removed from the stimulating environment that allows the kid to sort of reboot, focus on the parent and actually hear when the parent says ''No throwing''. The time is not a punishemnt, but a tool to allow them to calm down and refocus. So if it was my son and he would scream for an hour, I would patiently check on him every couple of minutes but he would not be allowed to leave the calm quiet area until he was calm and quiet. Its like CIO, right?My mom''s best friends son was a screamer like that. His mom would always give in. One day he bit me, and my mom said, ''That''s it! You cannot bite!'' Kid started screaming, so he was taken to his room and the door was closed. He screamed with his mouth pressed to the scack under the door for an hour or sobut he did not come out until he stopped and he did not bite me again nor did he throw a scream fit like that for a long time. He was around 3 years old. ETA My mo mwas a hard a$$ about tantrums. I apparently threw 2 in my whole life. Pretty good considering that I am a...umm.. spiritied child still.
softly softly
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I have heard that about kids behaving differently at preschool and I have noticed this with my kids to a certain extent, but also having observed 3 and 4 year olds at preschool I will say that sometimes you can tell those kids who are not used to having boundaries. Last year when my son was in 4 year old kindergarten I remember talking to one of the other mothers at a birthday party and she said that earlier in the week she'd had a call from the teacher saying her son had been misbehaving - the mother's response? She asked the teacher what she expected her to do about it. This was a kid who was repeating 4 year old kinder because he had yet to develop the skills required to start primary school. I gather he spent much of his time at kindergarten standing outside the teacher's office door because of inappropriate behaviour during playtime. I also know from talking to friends who are teachers how much harder their job is made by kids who are not given boundaries at home. I guess my point is that a large part of my motivation in disciplining my children is that I don't want them to be the sort of kids who others dread coming into contact with, or the sort of kids who disrupt classrooms and who don't have any respect for me or other adults.
I am always happy to hear that my kids have performed well at a something, but what pleases me and gives me the most satisfaction as a parent is when I am told that my children are well-behaved. It means I am doing my job properly. I don't feel I really can take credit for how intelligent or artistic they are, but I can take credit for how well-mannered they are because that is something I am directly responsible for teaching them. I can understand your frustration with your friend and I just wonder if she realises she really isn't doing her son or herself any favours.
I am always happy to hear that my kids have performed well at a something, but what pleases me and gives me the most satisfaction as a parent is when I am told that my children are well-behaved. It means I am doing my job properly. I don't feel I really can take credit for how intelligent or artistic they are, but I can take credit for how well-mannered they are because that is something I am directly responsible for teaching them. I can understand your frustration with your friend and I just wonder if she realises she really isn't doing her son or herself any favours.
jewelz617
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Date: 2/25/2010 1:06:28 PM
Author: meresal
With a ''Spirit Stick''
To be honest, I think she has already lost her respect in this child''s eyes. Mom and Dad need to decide to be stern and get over the ''I must please my child'' aspect.
This is my sister 10 years ago... luckily the kids have grown out of screaming, but they still demand things everytime they step foot in a store and expect to be given things at every party. My sister''s husband never came in with the stern fist. IMO, a child cannot control TWO parents, there must be one missing.
Pink- I like your ''go home now'' approach... however, I have to say, I am not a fan of the ignoring the child in a public place. There is a point where it becomes VERY annoying to the people around. That is the ''go home now'' moment... and the child no longer gets to go out with mommy and daddy until they can behave.
That''s why ignore has to be immediately followed by leaving. I would never subject other people to a howling kid. It''s annoying and I really can''t stand listening to it either, so I sure as heck don''t want other people listening to it. My daughter now looks forward to going for a ride in the car, or going on an outing. She enjoys it so much that she knows even at her young age that she better not throw a fit, because that gets her right back home with no fun, toys, videos or snacks. The problem is now she thinks saying "Please" or "Thank you?" will automatically grant her any request
I am lucky that my husband is totally on board with this parenting approach, but in reality I''m with her 99% of the time. So I have to be the enforcer, but I always do it with love and my daughter is very happy and well mannered most of the time. Of course kids have occasional meltdowns, that goes with the territory, but I hope TGal''s friend can nip this problem quickly. I can''t imagine dealing with an out of control toddler AND a newborn...
Maisie
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I have made a rod for my own back with James. Since it became apparent that he has special needs I have always been more lenient with him. And this was fine until I found out he doesn't display any of his more difficult behaviours at school! He has boundaries there and does respect the rules. Now I have a 5 year old who has played me for a good un!
I have started to give him boundaries and he has needed quite a few time outs. I am persevering though. I do not need a tantrum throwing spoiled brat in my life! I know it will take time and above all consistency! If I give in even a little bit all my hard work will be undone.
I have started to give him boundaries and he has needed quite a few time outs. I am persevering though. I do not need a tantrum throwing spoiled brat in my life! I know it will take time and above all consistency! If I give in even a little bit all my hard work will be undone.
Haven
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TGal--I just want to say I think it''s cool that you''re looking for advice on how to help your friend should the opportunity arise. And, I really hope you get the opportunity to help her out.
I can''t imagine how overwhelming it is to have a child who behaves like this, regardless of whether it is your own fault that he''s acting out or not. I hope for her sake, and the child''s, that she can change her ways.
My nephew was a real terror as a small child. My BIL and SIL set zero boundaries for him, and they never followed through on their attempts at discipline. It got to the point that I refused to go out with them for meals because he was so unruly. Now he''s seven and while he no longer throws temper tantrums, his resistance and acting out is becoming much worse. His older sister isn''t much better. It''s not like it all ends when they outgrow a particular stage. They go from throwing tantrums to being out of control teens.
And, may I say: as a teacher, I thank you and parents like you.
I can''t imagine how overwhelming it is to have a child who behaves like this, regardless of whether it is your own fault that he''s acting out or not. I hope for her sake, and the child''s, that she can change her ways.
My nephew was a real terror as a small child. My BIL and SIL set zero boundaries for him, and they never followed through on their attempts at discipline. It got to the point that I refused to go out with them for meals because he was so unruly. Now he''s seven and while he no longer throws temper tantrums, his resistance and acting out is becoming much worse. His older sister isn''t much better. It''s not like it all ends when they outgrow a particular stage. They go from throwing tantrums to being out of control teens.
And, may I say: as a teacher, I thank you and parents like you.
Mrs Mitchell
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Okay, so I have some better insight now. A had her first (and second and third and fourth and finally fifth) public tantrums yesterday. We were caught unawares, because she''s never done that anywhere except home before. Interesting experience. I think, having seen the full force of it unleashed in earnest, if we had been anywhere else, I''d have put her straight back in the car, but we were in Ikea, which is fairly child friendly, and it was early enough that not many people were about.
We didn''t have the option of leaving, because we''d promised to pick up stuff for friends (it''s a long drive there and back) and there was stuff we needed too, so DH dealt with it by finding a quiet corner and using time out until she calmed down each time while I went and found the stuff we were there for.
It seems to happen out of frustration. She wants something / wants to do something and either can''t make us understand what it is or can''t understand why we won''t let her have it or do it. Also, she is unwell at the moment. She''s anaemic and has a horrible cold, plus she has 4 teeth coming through all at once. I found it hard to know what was bad behaviour and what was genuine distress / discomfort, to be honest. She loved Ikea last time we were there and I thought she''d be ok, but maybe I misjudged that.
DH assures me this is normal and that as long as we''re firm, consistent and show no fear it will pass. He has two grown up daughters and neither of them have tantrums in public now, so clearly it does pass, but until then nerves of steel and serious boundaries are in order. We had promised to meet her Godparents for lunch today and I was prepared for a swift exit, but she was an angel in the restaurant, after a huge meltdown about going in the car. Back at home, come dinner time, we had another meltdown, when she declined to wear a bib. DH put it on, she took it off. He put it on, she took it off etc. He insisted. She resisted. He put her in time out. She calmed down, he put her back in the high chair, put the bib on, she took it off. Time out. Highchair. Time out. Many, many times. We ate cold spaghetti, but she wore that damned bib.
Bottom line is that I can''t stop her exhibiting anger and frustration if she''s angry and frustrated. All I can do is set boundaries, and make it clear what isn''t acceptable, remove her from the situation if she doesn''t stop and try to understand better what''s bratty behaviour and what''s genuine discomfort or distress. Oh, and never, ever give her the thing she''s screaming for, I suppose. If she''d had her own way, we''d now be the proud owners of a pink floral swivel chair from Ikea...
Please tell me I will survive this phase?
Jen
We didn''t have the option of leaving, because we''d promised to pick up stuff for friends (it''s a long drive there and back) and there was stuff we needed too, so DH dealt with it by finding a quiet corner and using time out until she calmed down each time while I went and found the stuff we were there for.
It seems to happen out of frustration. She wants something / wants to do something and either can''t make us understand what it is or can''t understand why we won''t let her have it or do it. Also, she is unwell at the moment. She''s anaemic and has a horrible cold, plus she has 4 teeth coming through all at once. I found it hard to know what was bad behaviour and what was genuine distress / discomfort, to be honest. She loved Ikea last time we were there and I thought she''d be ok, but maybe I misjudged that.
DH assures me this is normal and that as long as we''re firm, consistent and show no fear it will pass. He has two grown up daughters and neither of them have tantrums in public now, so clearly it does pass, but until then nerves of steel and serious boundaries are in order. We had promised to meet her Godparents for lunch today and I was prepared for a swift exit, but she was an angel in the restaurant, after a huge meltdown about going in the car. Back at home, come dinner time, we had another meltdown, when she declined to wear a bib. DH put it on, she took it off. He put it on, she took it off etc. He insisted. She resisted. He put her in time out. She calmed down, he put her back in the high chair, put the bib on, she took it off. Time out. Highchair. Time out. Many, many times. We ate cold spaghetti, but she wore that damned bib.
Bottom line is that I can''t stop her exhibiting anger and frustration if she''s angry and frustrated. All I can do is set boundaries, and make it clear what isn''t acceptable, remove her from the situation if she doesn''t stop and try to understand better what''s bratty behaviour and what''s genuine discomfort or distress. Oh, and never, ever give her the thing she''s screaming for, I suppose. If she''d had her own way, we''d now be the proud owners of a pink floral swivel chair from Ikea...
Please tell me I will survive this phase?
Jen
TravelingGal
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You''ll pass with flying colors MrsM!
OK, questions for you moms...
What do you use for a time out spot? My friend is interested in employing this technique (she told me, as I have not brought up any of this stuff yet). However putting him in a corner won''t work...unless she''s willing to put him there over and over again. She doesn''t want to use the crib because she thinks he may start to have negative feelings about the crib. She does not own a pack and play (although doesn''t want to use it for the same reason).
Any ideas? I use a Superyard that we currently have blocking off our fireplace. I used the extra panels to create a little triangle for Amelia''s time out. It is only used for her time out and she knows darn well what it is now. I don''t think my friend has room to configure a superyard, so I''m looking for other ideas.
OK, questions for you moms...
What do you use for a time out spot? My friend is interested in employing this technique (she told me, as I have not brought up any of this stuff yet). However putting him in a corner won''t work...unless she''s willing to put him there over and over again. She doesn''t want to use the crib because she thinks he may start to have negative feelings about the crib. She does not own a pack and play (although doesn''t want to use it for the same reason).
Any ideas? I use a Superyard that we currently have blocking off our fireplace. I used the extra panels to create a little triangle for Amelia''s time out. It is only used for her time out and she knows darn well what it is now. I don''t think my friend has room to configure a superyard, so I''m looking for other ideas.
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I was just checking in to see if there is any advice I can use
. I too have a strong-willed or what have you preschooler. Don''t blame the parents entirely, there are definitely different personalities out there. Our older child had issues (stubborn, refused to do certain things) grew out of it and responded to the advice in books. Younger daughter, more resistant. She can have an almost willful need to cause trouble (marker over herself and important papers, take all my tolietries out of the drawers, pull all the wrapping paper and ribbons out of their case, pour water from her cup onto the floor while staring at us). This behavior is something that my husband was known for as a child. And yes he was spanked, and would still do it.
The frustrating thing is that my husband eventually loses his cool and grabs and yells at her, which then makes her cry and make her even less contrite. So it may be reinforcing pulling our chain, even if it''s negative attention. The only thing that even partially works is remove emotion, put her in time out, periodically check, don''t get to go out of time out until crying/tantrum is over, she has to help clean up/apologize.
The other thiing is that she is simply an active child and needs to be involved in something. If we don''t give her something, she will find something to do, most likely something we do NOT like. Shame, guilt, etc have no effect on her. But keeping her busy with more positive activities works. But it IS exhausting. There are times I''ve considered spanking. But it didn''t work for my husband, so why would it work here.
The frustrating thing is that my husband eventually loses his cool and grabs and yells at her, which then makes her cry and make her even less contrite. So it may be reinforcing pulling our chain, even if it''s negative attention. The only thing that even partially works is remove emotion, put her in time out, periodically check, don''t get to go out of time out until crying/tantrum is over, she has to help clean up/apologize.
The other thiing is that she is simply an active child and needs to be involved in something. If we don''t give her something, she will find something to do, most likely something we do NOT like. Shame, guilt, etc have no effect on her. But keeping her busy with more positive activities works. But it IS exhausting. There are times I''ve considered spanking. But it didn''t work for my husband, so why would it work here.
Maisie
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Allison D.
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This doesn''t surprise me at all. Why? Because Amelia has known from day one that you have expectations and that your will to prevail is sturdier than hers.
That''s a message your friend''s son hasn''t received; he''s received the opposite. "If I carry on long enough, I will get my way."
Unless/until your friend decides that the short-term inconvenience/pain of outlasting his tantrum will be offset by the many tantrum-free days that would follow, there''s just nothing you can do.
It''s unfortunate, because SHE is likely going to be the ultimate loser in this equation. I''d imagine she''s going to find her friends increasingly spend less and less time with her to avoid subjecting themselves to the consequences of her reluctance to parent.
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Allison D.
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Fully, FULLY agree with this.
This avoids Mrs. M''s concern, too (reinforcing behavior by allowing kid to use screaming as a way to leave a place he doesn''t want to be). In the above, the removal isn''t permanent. It''s "ok, you can sit here with nothing to do in the carseat. I will not engage with you or entertain you. I can wait as long as needed for you to stop - I don''t care if it takes all day. When you decide to behave, we will return to the activity to finish it. The sooner you decide to behave, the sooner we can be through."
Allison D.
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But that''s just the thing....isn''t it more inconvenient to keep dealing with a problem over and over and over again? For me, it would be.
Kudos to the Disneyland friend, though, because the message she delivered to her child is "I will follow-through, and YOU will miss out." I''m sure it was a bummer for that specific outing, but I''m sure it wasn''t one she had to repeat often, if ever. She sacrificed ONE outing in the name of saving countless subsequent outings.
That''s the thing about follow-through; it doesn''t take many times for the child to realize that the parent WILL act, and once they know you would, you''ll seldom need to.
TravelingGal
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Well, here it is in a nutshell and why I''ll just shut up and focus on my own kid.
She thinks her son is a good boy. And he is, basically a good kid. She does not think he''s a handful at all, as evidenced by the fact that at lunch today she told me she hopes her second child (she''s preggo) is just like her son. She says he was an easy baby (he was, but that was then), and that she sees the way other people''s kids treat their parents (hitting, screaming "mine") and is glad her kid isn''t a handful like that.
Never mind that last week she told me he hits her. But all I could do is sit there and nod. If it were just me...well, I would think it''s just me, but so many of our friends think he''s a handful. Perception is everything and she thinks he''s easy, so it is what it is.
She thinks her son is a good boy. And he is, basically a good kid. She does not think he''s a handful at all, as evidenced by the fact that at lunch today she told me she hopes her second child (she''s preggo) is just like her son. She says he was an easy baby (he was, but that was then), and that she sees the way other people''s kids treat their parents (hitting, screaming "mine") and is glad her kid isn''t a handful like that.
Never mind that last week she told me he hits her. But all I could do is sit there and nod. If it were just me...well, I would think it''s just me, but so many of our friends think he''s a handful. Perception is everything and she thinks he''s easy, so it is what it is.
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