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Tiffany Harmony Replica

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platinumharmony

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 22, 2018
Messages
19
I am looking to get something like the Tiffany Harmony setting: https://www.tiffany.com/engagement/rings/tiffany-harmony-1853
However, I plan on purchasing an ACA diamond from whiteflash (in the 0.9-1.1 carat range) and having a custom made setting or finding an existing similar one.

This is the closest setting I found: http://www.dreamstone.com/store/pc/viewprd.asp?IDCategory=0&IDProduct=8735844
http://www.dreamstone.com/store/pc/viewprd.asp?idProduct=8731127
Does anyone here have experience with them? The ring looks almost identical.

I have considered some other tapered cathedrals that were similar from James Allen, Ritani, Brian Gavin Melissa, and Whiteflash Fine Line, but neither of them have the perfect taper and the arch of the ring like the harmony. They seem to taper differently with a different "swoop" to the basket.

Does anyone have recommendations on who might be a good platinum ring maker for this. I have seen suggestions for Mark Morrell, Mark Broumand, Leon Mege, and Victor Canera. Something I would possibly change if I got it custom made is the thickness of the ring. The tiffany harmony looks to be around 3mm (I can't find it officially, does anyone know?). So maybe down to 2.5 in a similar style would be better.

Also, if I get it custom made, would forged or cast be better?
 
Victor Canera or David Klass would be my suggestions. Not sure if VC would do a Tiffany clone tho..
 
foxinsox said:
Victor Canera or David Klass would be my suggestions. Not sure if VC would do a Tiffany clone tho..
Click to expand...

Agree on the above. You’d have to ask VC about the Tiffany clone; some vendors choose not to touch staple pieces.
VC forges. His pieces are a work of art. DK is also an artist, but I can’t confirm his methodology. Both are remarkable; DK will, likely, be more budget-friendly.
 
Have you had experience with either? Do you think this design requires hand forging or would CAD be better since it's more simple?
 
rockysalamander said:
https://www.ritani.com/engagement-r...dral-tapered-engagement-ring-in-platinum/5719

https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/engagement-rings/solitaire/melissa-platinum-5366p

https://bridal.gabrielny.com/product/ER5893W44JJ
Click to expand...

Those are nice, but I can't find anything similar to the harmony taper. The way it tapers to the top as a continuation of the flow of the ring rather than swooping in and up looks very pleasing.

Does anyone have any experience with a repro of this ring? I am strongly considering Victor Canera. Will a handforged ring for this design be worth it? I am willing to pay the premium for the best construction.
 
Also would anyone recommend Brian Gavin if I got the diamond from there? It seems like whiteflash has the largest hearts and arrow diamond selection.

I have narrowed it down to getting it done by Victor Canera or Brian Gavin and getting the diamond from whiteflash, Brian Gavin, or Victor canera.
 
Victor’s work is top top notch. Stones are beautiful and super ideals as well. If you want hand forged construction I would go with Victor if you can afford it. I don’t have a relationship by BGD but I think their work is probably very nice too, not hand forged but probably well done. I would be curious about their pricing. If is didnt care about hand forged platinum and cared about price, I would price it out and if I discovered that the price differential between VC and BGD is minimal I would go for VC. If BGD is way cheaper and I didn’t care about hand forged and was on a tighter budget I would choose BGD. And whichever vendor I chose I would just get my stone from them if they have one hat meets my criteria.
 
LLJsmom said:
Victor’s work is top top notch. Stones are beautiful and super ideals as well. If you want hand forged construction I would go with Victor if you can afford it. I don’t have a relationship by BGD but I think their work is probably very nice too, not hand forged but probably well done. I would be curious about their pricing. If is didnt care about hand forged platinum and cared about price, I would price it out and if I discovered that the price differential between VC and BGD is minimal I would go for VC. If BGD is way cheaper and I didn’t care about hand forged and was on a tighter budget I would choose BGD. And whichever vendor I chose I would just get my stone from them if they have one hat meets my criteria.
Click to expand...

VC is definitely more than Bgd, but I am ok with paying more for better quality.

I'm just trying to determine if my design will benefit from being hand forged. So I guess my question is to get the top quality for my design, would hand forged be the best? I am seeing conflicting things on whether hand forged is necessary for simple settings.
 
So, on the shoulder, you like the part I highlighted in yellow vs. a swoop upward?

upload_2018-5-25_20-17-35.png

Is hand-forged important to you? Its a pretty straight-forward design. I don't think WF, BDG or VC will make you an actual Tiffancy replica. They have their own versions that may differ (maybe improve upon) the Harmony. If you really want a replica, I'd look at David Klass (cast) or ID Jewelry. I don't see any reason why hand-forged would be better (per your question above) other than the act of hand-forging tends to make the metal less squishy.

What about this one????
upload_2018-5-25_20-25-36.png
https://www.whiteflash.com/engageme...ngle-shank-solitaire-engagement-ring-4728.htm

Or this one? I really like this profile and that gallery is lovely.
upload_2018-5-25_20-27-49.png
https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/engagement-rings/solitaire/melissa-18k-rose-gold-5366r18
 

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You're correct! The yellow part is what my girlfriend likes. She also likes the basket to be straight like the Tiffany one. Essentially, I think the Tiffany design is almost perfect with what she prefers. Did you see the Dreamstone one from the original post? Have you heard of them? That looks like an exact replica but I'm not familiar with them.

I think those are very close! They all said they can make a customized one "inspired" by Tiffany. So I think they should be able to get it very close. But I also want a super ideal diamond and it seems that people suggest to have it set by the same person. So that is how I narrowed it down to BGD, Victor or Whiteflash.

Will hand forging make the details of the curves on the ring better than CAD? Since it is a simple design, if that will help make it a slightly better, I don't mind paying a little extra.
 
There is no right answer to this question. To me, I reserved my budget for hand-forging when I need intricate and human-artistry in the design. Where there is a lot of complex details, carving and etching. Or, when you are looking for graceful bending of wire work (like with trellis designs). When I want that human shaping. Where you are ok with some slight variations in the setting. I also like it for pave where the stones are very tiny. A setting like this really benefits from hand-forging due to the wire work. (..
)

For a setting where you want everything to be perfectly, exactly symmetrical -- CAD and casting can be better (this is what Tiffany does for that setting). You will get to see CAD images, tweak them and then have the ring made. What you want, it superior finishing. For that, BGD or WF are very good. I would also have HighPerformanceDiamonds on your super-ideal/set option list. Their diamonds are a bit more and there are lots of threads about them here comparing to other vendors. What I especially like, though, is that they have a extra-super-duper finishing (I can't recall the official name, but it adds a few hundred) or using David Klass's uber-bench to make the ring and buy the diamond anywhere you like.

But a hand-forged setting will not be a bad choice and VS's setting are beautiful.

Let me try this, maybe lets start with your diamond wants and budget and see which vendor has what you want for a diamond. See how you balance your wants and what budget you have for a setting. From there, maybe the vendor will come together for you...
 
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I also was going to have this wedding ring made: https://www.tiffany.com/engagement/...d-ring-GRP06716?origin=engagement&trackpdp=pp
Based on what you said, this seems like a good candidate for hand forging.

I would like a 0.9-1 carat, D-F color, VS1 clarity, and super ideal cut diamond.

The diamond par

Budget of about 15,000 total including all rings/diamonds. I think I should be able to meet it regardless of whether I go with VC/handforged or cast.
 
Unless it is traditional in your culture/faith, absolutely let her choose her own wedding band after she has worn the ring for a while. I'd have been peeved if my DH selected mine for me.

Let's set aside $2k for the setting (on the high side) and that leaves you $13k for the diamond. These are all a bit bigger than your range, but you have the budget for these.

WF
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3979467.htm (1.09 F VS1)
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3788899.htm (1.3 F VS2)

BGD
https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/.../1.247-e-vs2-round-diamond-bkags-104097580012
https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/1.128-f-vvs1-round-diamond-bfg-785474

Victor Canera
https://www.victorcanera.com/diamonds/60v1fd-1.208-f-vs2-ideal-hearts-arrows-round

Hand-forged from VC aside, the other difference between these are the upgrade policies for the diamond. WF & VC = 100% of value on any other house branded that is $1 more, BGD=100% of value with upgrade of 2 of 3 (color, clarity and size).

Given that you are already looking at the top tier of color and clarity, I'd be hesitant with BGD's policy. They are a great vendor, but if you are looking for reasons to narrow your options, I'd eliminate BGD. That leaves WF and VC and David Klass custom vendor (buy diamond from WF or VC). If you want an very close version, DK is the choice I'd make. If you can live with a minimum of 20% change, then go with WF or VC.

@scarsmum offers an intriguing idea. You could buy that ring and then put your own superideal in the setting. But, not sure if your girl would mind a pre-loved ring.

Here's another one that has pave and it over budget, but....
https://www.1stdibs.com/jewelry/rin...platinum-harmony-ring-105-carat/id-j_3873643/
 
Victor isn't going to make a copy of a branded ring. So I'd use David Klass. That ring is cast by Tiffany so there is zero reason to have it hand forged. So go with David Klass.

I recommend Whiteflash for ideal cut rounds for greater selection and often the best prices.
 
rockysalamander said:
Unless it is traditional in your culture/faith, absolutely let her choose her own wedding band after she has worn the ring for a while. I'd have been peeved if my DH selected mine for me.

Let's set aside $2k for the setting (on the high side) and that leaves you $13k for the diamond. These are all a bit bigger than your range, but you have the budget for these.

WF
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3979467.htm (1.09 F VS1)
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3788899.htm (1.3 F VS2)

BGD
https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/.../1.247-e-vs2-round-diamond-bkags-104097580012
https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/1.128-f-vvs1-round-diamond-bfg-785474

Victor Canera
https://www.victorcanera.com/diamonds/60v1fd-1.208-f-vs2-ideal-hearts-arrows-round

Hand-forged from VC aside, the other difference between these are the upgrade policies for the diamond. WF & VC = 100% of value on any other house branded that is $1 more, BGD=100% of value with upgrade of 2 of 3 (color, clarity and size).

Given that you are already looking at the top tier of color and clarity, I'd be hesitant with BGD's policy. They are a great vendor, but if you are looking for reasons to narrow your options, I'd eliminate BGD. That leaves WF and VC and David Klass custom vendor (buy diamond from WF or VC). If you want an very close version, DK is the choice I'd make. If you can live with a minimum of 20% change, then go with WF or VC.

@scarsmum offers an intriguing idea. You could buy that ring and then put your own superideal in the setting. But, not sure if your girl would mind a pre-loved ring.

Here's another one that has pave and it over budget, but....
https://www.1stdibs.com/jewelry/rin...platinum-harmony-ring-105-carat/id-j_3873643/
Click to expand...

I don't think she would like the pre-loved rings so I'm not considering that option.

Does David Klass typically do replicas? How is his finishing compared to Victor Canera or maybe others who cast, such as Mark Morrell or BGD or HPD.

I looked into HPD a little and emailed them and they said they have done a harmony before. If their finishing is top notch, I'd strongly consider them.
 
diamondseeker2006 said:
Victor isn't going to make a copy of a branded ring. So I'd use David Klass. That ring is cast by Tiffany so there is zero reason to have it hand forged. So go with David Klass.

I recommend Whiteflash for ideal cut rounds for greater selection and often the best prices.
Click to expand...

I agree, currently for the diamond, I think whiteflash is my first choice, followed by BGD, VC, CBI.

The wedding band that I posted from Tiffany is also one that I know she wants for sure (from her friend). Is that an intricate design that'd benefit from the hand forge?
 
platinumharmony said:
I agree, currently for the diamond, I think whiteflash is my first choice, followed by BGD, VC, CBI.

The wedding band that I posted from Tiffany is also one that I know she wants for sure (from her friend). Is that an intricate design that'd benefit from the hand forge?
Click to expand...

No, most of the Tiffany rings are cast. I can think of no benefit to making that ring handforged especially if the one she loves is not. When doing a pave halo or something like that, you might want to consider handforged, but even then, we could show you beautiful examples that are not.

Just for the sake of using terminology that will be understood, you are talking about a setting for your diamond. The band is the wedding band and generally is plain or has tiny diamonds in it. That Tiffany setting will be fine cast, and David Klass will make it well and for a reasonable price, leaving more money for the diamond.
 
diamondseeker2006 said:
No, most of the Tiffany rings are cast. I can think of no benefit to making that ring handforged especially if the one she loves is not. When doing a pave halo or something like that, you might want to consider handforged, but even then, we could show you beautiful examples that are not.

Just for the sake of using terminology that will be understood, you are talking about a setting for your diamond. The band is the wedding band and generally is plain or has tiny diamonds in it. That Tiffany setting will be fine cast, and David Klass will make it well and for a reasonable price, leaving more money for the diamond.
Click to expand...
So this is the wedding band I was referring to. Would this be cast fine as well? https://m.tiffany.com/engagement/wo...|mtid|744dpc50313|slid||productid|30620054_PT DI TFHARMONY RG 7|targetids|pla-316032831050|groupid|49714039091|&gclid=CjwKCAjwi6TYBRAYEiwAOeH7GSDZdBLp8zbvWnL3yfEq1Tn2I6a8QXm_As77CYjGIwl4XYrzjPtFJhoC994QAvD_BwE



Is there a difference in the quality of work for David Klass vs Wink from HPD?

I know that she doesn't want the ring to be bigger than 1 carat, as she thinks right at 1 looks best on her.So I don't need the extra budget to go towards a bigger ring. I just want to make sure whoever I pick for the setting will have great craftsmanship, perhaps better than Tiffany's.
 
Absolutely that wedding band would be fine cast. In fact, I have a Tiffany wedding band with diamonds myself, and it is cast. It's perfect and there is zero reason to have it handforged.

I don't think you need anything priced above David Klass for the rings you are wanting. I haven't used him personally so it's not like I gain anything by recommending him. But I think for what you want, I wouldn't pay more than he charges, and I would put more into the diamond. There are many vendors who can do equal to Tiffany's. She wants a very simple setting for the diamond and a fairly simple wedding band and I could name many vendors who could do a good job with it. But David Klass will beat out most others on price. Honestly, if you were asking for an intricate antique style ring, my recommendation might be different, but not for these particular rings.

Trust me, she is not going to be disappointed with a 1.10 or 1.20 ct diamond. Those aren't going to look enough different in size to feel like they are too large, I promise. But best to get more size at the outset than wish later on you had.
 
David Klass does quality work. There are lots of examples on the "show me the bling" section. I was very impressed with the craftsmanship of my latest band made by him.
 
diamondseeker2006 said:
Absolutely that wedding band would be fine cast. In fact, I have a Tiffany wedding band with diamonds myself, and it is cast. It's perfect and there is zero reason to have it handforged.

I don't think you need anything priced above David Klass for the rings you are wanting. I haven't used him personally so it's not like I gain anything by recommending him. But I think for what you want, I wouldn't pay more than he charges, and I would put more into the diamond. There are many vendors who can do equal to Tiffany's. She wants a very simple setting for the diamond and a fairly simple wedding band and I could name many vendors who could do a good job with it. But David Klass will beat out most others on price. Honestly, if you were asking for an intricate antique style ring, my recommendation might be different, but not for these particular rings.

Trust me, she is not going to be disappointed with a 1.10 or 1.20 ct diamond. Those aren't going to look enough different in size to feel like they are too large, I promise. But best to get more size at the outset than wish later on you had.
Click to expand...

You have convinced me to go with casting it.
The pricing of David Klass and Wink HPD seems around the same price. Would it just be a toss up at that point? There are a few crafted by infinity diamonds I see that I like. So maybe if I get one of those, should I go with Wink?
 
I would compare prices on the diamonds between WF ACA and Wink's CBI and buy the one with the better price. Then decide who will set it.
 
What is your budget for the diamond and setting together? I think the setting will be under $1000.
 
diamondseeker2006 said:
What is your budget for the diamond and setting together? I think the setting will be under $1000.
Click to expand...

Around 12,500.
I will go ahead and keep an eye on the diamonds from those websites.
Do you consider their quality for the setting the same?
 
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diamondseeker2006 said:
The setting you want is a very simple solitaire. I don't think the quality will be visibly better from any vendor. Again, this is not an elaborate setting that takes a high level of skill to make.

These would be good diamond choices:

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3979467.htm

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3982394.htm
Click to expand...

Thank you for these! I'll keep an eye on these and keep looking.
 
Hi PlatinumHarmony,

I wanted to make some points here from my experience with this issue.

Regardless of how simple or ornate a piece of jewelry is, there are inherent advantages to hand fabricating something. These are just some:

1- Hand fabricating leads to super sharp and clean areas of a piece of jewelry especially interior parts which can’t be cleaned on a cast piece.

1a- Using your example of a solitaire with a cathedral band here. The very small “<“ “>” or openings inside of the cathedral band would be sharper and come to a sharp point on a hand fabricated ring. The shapes on either side would have a slight molten, melted metal look on a cast ring. Other interior parts of a ring might have a molten, melted metal look as well.
1b- The prongs holding the center stone would be perfectly cylindrically shaped that can’t be achieved with casting. Prong work is one of the areas that hand forged jewelry excels. Tri-wire bands for example are ideally done by hand.

2- A cast ring is usually heavier than a hand fabricated ring.

3- A hand fabricated ring definitely has a stronger, denser metal. I don’t have scientific evidence here but I know this to be true.

4- If having a one of a kind piece of jewelry speaks to you, a hand fabricated ring is absolutely a one of a kind each and every time even of the same design redone by the same designer. Hand fabricating jewelry means having to create a ring from scratch every time versus pulling it up on a computer program and offering it to the second third or hundredth client.


There are some beautiful photography done on the forum here but most of the photos are from a distance. It would be interesting if somebody one day posted macro photos of a design that is both cast and hand fabricated and posted the comparison online. I think some of the points that I’ve made above would be immediately visible. A comparison like this hasn’t been done before here so people might assume that there is no difference. If you’re one of the lucky people that has a store near you that offers both types of manufacturing, I would highly recommend that you take a look and make the decision yourself.

I think there are two separate questions in play here. One is whether this design would have a better result if hand fabricated vs cast. I think the points that I’ve made above show where I stand in this debate. If a ring can be hand fabricated it’s almost always better quality than a cast one. Is that difference 1% better or 40% better, that depends on the level of finish of the cast piece and the jewelry design but it’s there.

The second question is a much more personal and subjective one which is is the additional cost of going with hand fabrication worth it on a personal level. Hand fabricating jewelry is definitely more labor intensive than casting so there’s a bit of a premium to this type of jewelry. This is a cost to benefit analysis that a consumer needs to make when looking at this. For some, a high priority might have to do with their budget while others are able to put a specific cost premium that they’re willing to accept for the advantages outlined above (and others). It’s a very personal decision.

I disagree that only complex designs benefit from hand fabrication. Let’s use an extreme example to make this point. There isn’t much more simple items in jewelry than men's wedding bands. They're usually pretty simple. Why is it that the brands catering to even the middle of the market don’t cast their wedding bands? They invest hundreds of thousands of dollars in machinery like lathes, mills and Posalux diamond cutting machines just to produce these bands. The reason is because they get a much better result by machining the bands. The bands have finer detailing, are stronger by not casting them. Interested in a simple Stuller men's band, it's going to machined with a lathe not cast. There are some really interesting youtube videos if one searches for them that show the band manufacturing process.

Additionally, not all casting is equal. I recently had a client show me a band that they purchased from an internationally recognized brand in discussion here. The band was approximately 2mm wide with extremely fine ajour openings underneath each and every melee stone. This band was created using metal molds in my opinion which is a really nice way of mass producing items but still have extremely fine detail in the finished piece. The result is much better than using the wax CAD\CAM system but the cost of creating metal dies for each order is prohibitive in custom jewelry. Metal dies are made for items that need to be mass produced where the cost of the metal die isn't huge in the grand scheme of things.

Wax and casting in jewelry excels in “flowy” designs. Things like some very unique trellis designs would be hard to hand fabricate. Do you need something that needs many iterations? CAD\CAM casting is the way to go. I recently had a client request custom shirt studs. I expressed the opinion to him that creating 6-8 hand fabricated shirt studs would take a lot of time and be cost prohibitive.

Good luck with your search
 
Victor Canera said:
Hi PlatinumHarmony,

I wanted to make some points here from my experience with this issue.

Regardless of how simple or ornate a piece of jewelry is, there are inherent advantages to hand fabricating something. These are just some:

1- Hand fabricating leads to super sharp and clean areas of a piece of jewelry especially interior parts which can’t be cleaned on a cast piece.

1a- Using your example of a solitaire with a cathedral band here. The very small “<“ “>” or openings inside of the cathedral band would be sharper and come to a sharp point on a hand fabricated ring. The shapes on either side would have a slight molten, melted metal look on a cast ring. Other interior parts of a ring might have a molten, melted metal look as well.
1b- The prongs holding the center stone would be perfectly cylindrically shaped that can’t be achieved with casting. Prong work is one of the areas that hand forged jewelry excels. Tri-wire bands for example are ideally done by hand.

2- A cast ring is usually heavier than a hand fabricated ring.

3- A hand fabricated ring definitely has a stronger, denser metal. I don’t have scientific evidence here but I know this to be true.

4- If having a one of a kind piece of jewelry speaks to you, a hand fabricated ring is absolutely a one of a kind each and every time even of the same design redone by the same designer. Hand fabricating jewelry means having to create a ring from scratch every time versus pulling it up on a computer program and offering it to the second third or hundredth client.


There are some beautiful photography done on the forum here but most of the photos are from a distance. It would be interesting if somebody one day posted macro photos of a design that is both cast and hand fabricated and posted the comparison online. I think some of the points that I’ve made above would be immediately visible. A comparison like this hasn’t been done before here so people might assume that there is no difference. If you’re one of the lucky people that has a store near you that offers both types of manufacturing, I would highly recommend that you take a look and make the decision yourself.

I think there are two separate questions in play here. One is whether this design would have a better result if hand fabricated vs cast. I think the points that I’ve made above show where I stand in this debate. If a ring can be hand fabricated it’s almost always better quality than a cast one. Is that difference 1% better or 40% better, that depends on the level of finish of the cast piece and the jewelry design but it’s there.

The second question is a much more personal and subjective one which is is the additional cost of going with hand fabrication worth it on a personal level. Hand fabricating jewelry is definitely more labor intensive than casting so there’s a bit of a premium to this type of jewelry. This is a cost to benefit analysis that a consumer needs to make when looking at this. For some, a high priority might have to do with their budget while others are able to put a specific cost premium that they’re willing to accept for the advantages outlined above (and others). It’s a very personal decision.

I disagree that only complex designs benefit from hand fabrication. Let’s use an extreme example to make this point. There isn’t much more simple items in jewelry than men's wedding bands. They're usually pretty simple. Why is it that the brands catering to even the middle of the market don’t cast their wedding bands? They invest hundreds of thousands of dollars in machinery like lathes, mills and Posalux diamond cutting machines just to produce these bands. The reason is because they get a much better result by machining the bands. The bands have finer detailing, are stronger by not casting them. Interested in a simple Stuller men's band, it's going to machined with a lathe not cast. There are some really interesting youtube videos if one searches for them that show the band manufacturing process.

Additionally, not all casting is equal. I recently had a client show me a band that they purchased from an internationally recognized brand in discussion here. The band was approximately 2mm wide with extremely fine ajour openings underneath each and every melee stone. This band was created using metal molds in my opinion which is a really nice way of mass producing items but still have extremely fine detail in the finished piece. The result is much better than using the wax CAD\CAM system but the cost of creating metal dies for each order is prohibitive in custom jewelry. Metal dies are made for items that need to be mass produced where the cost of the metal die isn't huge in the grand scheme of things.

Wax and casting in jewelry excels in “flowy” designs. Things like some very unique trellis designs would be hard to hand fabricate. Do you need something that needs many iterations? CAD\CAM casting is the way to go. I recently had a client request custom shirt studs. I expressed the opinion to him that creating 6-8 hand fabricated shirt studs would take a lot of time and be cost prohibitive.

Good luck with your search
Click to expand...

Wow this is great info. Thank you for taking the time to write this.

Would hand forging still result in a perfectly symmetrical ring for this design?

Because I do have room in my budget, I really don't mind spending a little more for even a slightly better constructed ring (which is why I considered hand forging, but I really don't have much experience with either). I will say that I have noticed the prongs/single eagle claws that you make look perfect and I think that is one of my favorite features of your rings.
 
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