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Tiffany Diamond Specs

lydial

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Oct 10, 2010
Messages
621
Hi! Just curious what abbreviations CBI and HPD mean?
CBI is “crafted by infinity”. They are a super ideal round brilliant diamond producer (a brand, like T and Co but all they do is cut their brand of super ideal diamonds; they are not direct to consumers nor do they sell their stones unbranded) They are to round diamonds what any other high end *craft* specialist would be eg if you are a bike or car or music hobbiest / they are an elite producer like any other industry has. I personally own 2 CBI diamonds; HPD is “high performance diamonds”. They are a US jeweler out of Boise of all places. They exclusively sell CBI and are the primary US seller of CBI (and there is no direct competition to CBI... no one specifically exclusively crafts super ideal diamonds, not even T and Co, though there are super ideal cut diamonds available eg through small custom jewelers like Victor Canera; it is just the only thing CBI does; I own 10 small T and Co stones by the way...) . Essentially all of the stones HPD sells are “idiot proof” and will have perfect optics; They also make custom jewelry and sell a couple of other artisan’s settings. Working with them is like dealing with a boutique. The supporters / founders of this forum are from all over the world and some of the experts who chime in on discussions are people in the diamond industry who are marked as “Trade”. They include the people at CBI / hpd / and also Whiteflash in TX which is another high end jewelry company with a large on line presence and their own super ideal line of round brilliant diamonds called “aca” or “a cut above”. I do not myself own an ACA but they are a pinch less expensive than HPD/CBI from what I have seen. Both companies have very generous trade back policies; The owners of both companies are “Trade” people on here and are very interested in educating consumers and enjoy what they do. The rest of us are enthusiasts. Myself I am a rock hound and plan to start lapidary training once pandemic ends, so I hopefully will be cutting stones myself. There are other larger sellers who have beautiful perfect diamonds available so if boutique isn’t your gig check out other vendors.
 
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parsonsjnyc

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 27, 2020
Messages
38
CBI is “crafted by infinity”. They are a super ideal round brilliant diamond producer (a brand, like T and Co but all they do is cut their brand of super ideal diamonds; they are not direct to consumers nor do they sell their stones unbranded) They are to round diamonds what any other high end *craft* specialist would be eg if you are a bike or car or music hobbiest / they are an elite producer like any other industry has. I personally own 2 CBI diamonds; HPD is “high performance diamonds”. They are a US jeweler out of Boise of all places. They exclusively sell CBI and are the primary US seller of CBI (and there is no direct competition to CBI... no one specifically exclusively crafts super ideal diamonds, not even T and Co, though there are super ideal cut diamonds available eg through small custom jewelers like Victor Canera; it is just the only thing CBI does; I own 10 small T and Co stones by the way...) . Essentially all of the stones HPD sells are “idiot proof” and will have perfect optics; They also make custom jewelry and sell a couple of other artisan’s settings. Working with them is like dealing with a boutique. The supporters / founders of this forum are from all over the world and some of the experts who chime in on discussions are people in the diamond industry who are marked as “Trade”. They include the people at CBI / hpd / and also Whiteflash in TX which is another high end jewelry company with a large on line presence and their own super ideal line of round brilliant diamonds called “aca” or “a cut above”. I do not myself own an ACA but they are a pinch less expensive than HPD/CBI from what I have seen. Both companies have very generous trade back policies; The owners of both companies are “Trade” people on here and are very interested in educating consumers and enjoy what they do. The rest of us are enthusiasts. Myself I am a rock hound and plan to start lapidary training once pandemic ends, so I hopefully will be cutting stones myself. There are other larger sellers who have beautiful perfect diamonds available so if boutique isn’t your gig check out other vendors.
Thanks so much Lydial!! I am new to these boards and get confused with all of the abbreviations. Your explanation was extremely helpful! So interesting that you will be going for training on cutting diamonds - I am sure that combining your obvious passion for diamonds with a business acumen will be very rewarding!
 

astara25

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 11, 2018
Messages
42
What do you guys think? Had a difficult time with the iphone camera and the different angles but took a few pictures in front of a lamp and window light (cloudy day). Seems to be minor leakage through the table?
Can anyone guess the cut specs based on scope images? :P2
image4.jpeg image3.png image1.png image0.png
 

astara25

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 11, 2018
Messages
42
Hi All,

Interested in any input you might have, although i decided to return this specimen as it just didn't do it for me 'looks' wise. I'm trying to identify precisely why but guessing it has something to do with the cut proportions (perhaps a little too deep and some of the leakage in the table and what that ties back to?) Are slightly deep diamonds generally less brilliant?

Also, i have reviewed several threads on color and see the predominant theme is that H color when mounted, even for a solitaire of 2.5ct or so doesn't really show much color but i felt it was pretty pronounced when viewed from the side, especially with the D- G pave/platinum setting (and i never thought i was 'color sensitive' for what it's worth!), so that's another lesson learned!

Now that i understand more about the cut i should be looking for, do you think that going up one level in color from H to G would help, or would have i have to jump to F range to see more of a consistent color vs setting ? (generally speaking of course).

Thanks again for all your input!
 

MissGotRocks

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jun 23, 2005
Messages
12,621
Hi All,

Interested in any input you might have, although i decided to return this specimen as it just didn't do it for me 'looks' wise. I'm trying to identify precisely why but guessing it has something to do with the cut proportions (perhaps a little too deep and some of the leakage in the table and what that ties back to?) Are slightly deep diamonds generally less brilliant?

Also, i have reviewed several threads on color and see the predominant theme is that H color when mounted, even for a solitaire of 2.5ct or so doesn't really show much color but i felt it was pretty pronounced when viewed from the side, especially with the D- G pave/platinum setting (and i never thought i was 'color sensitive' for what it's worth!), so that's another lesson learned!

Now that i understand more about the cut i should be looking for, do you think that going up one level in color from H to G would help, or would have i have to jump to F range to see more of a consistent color vs setting ? (generally speaking of course).

Thanks again for all your input!
[/QUO


Look at this G color diamond from Whiteflash. You could ask them to do a side to side comparison with this F color diamond https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4187419.htm to see what you thought. Remember that color is graded from a face down position and that is where you would see the greatest concentration of color. Face up not sure there would be a great deal of difference but they could do videos for you face up and face down. Color is such a personal preference so you would have to let your eyes decide for you. They are great folks and would be happy to help you!
 

astara25

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 11, 2018
Messages
42
Thanks! Trickiest part was aligning the scope, to camera, etc...
What do you mean by 'unbranded' (mounted?)
 

astara25

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 11, 2018
Messages
42
Hi MissGotRocks,

Thanks for the link, i will take a look. Face up the H looks fine. It is just that so much of the side of the rock is exposed due to the solitaire setting, and there is a bit too much tint relative to the actual setting.
I actually also realized that the larger ct/mass of the stone vs the tiny, D-G stones just make it look even more exaggerated :/
 

AprilBaby

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 17, 2008
Messages
11,153
I missed something. Was that 2.7 a Tiffany diamond?
 

MissGotRocks

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jun 23, 2005
Messages
12,621
Hi MissGotRocks,

Thanks for the link, i will take a look. Face up the H looks fine. It is just that so much of the side of the rock is exposed due to the solitaire setting, and there is a bit too much tint relative to the actual setting.
I actually also realized that the larger ct/mass of the stone vs the tiny, D-G stones just make it look even more exaggerated :/
Yes, the tiny stones will never show the color like the larger stones do but you want them to compliment the center stone rather than to expose the yellow. If the contrast is too great to your eye, you probably won't be happy with it.

Unfortunately, the Tiffany diamonds are all already mounted so while you can get a good idea from the side, it is not as clear as viewing them in the face down position. To me, understanding the amount of color I see in the face down position helps give me the correct perspective in what I see from the top down view - if that makes any sense to you - lol!
 

lydial

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Oct 10, 2010
Messages
621
Sorry, is this the 78k 2.5 ct T&Co? H? With all of that leakage? I hope you are independently wealthy because you are being hosed unless it has been personally blessed by the Pope and mined on the moon. Maybe since you “bought” it they will let you return the (overpriced) center stone and just buy the (overpriced) setting?

PS while you are in see it to believe it mode maybe you should buy this which may be the most beautiful at HPD right now? They will send it to you try out. Then you could get it set locally or the could mount it. https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD10791
 

astara25

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 11, 2018
Messages
42
Hi Lydia,

it is - Although not -that- much leakage (though agree too much given the cost).
Not to get into finances (and trust you’re just speaking in jest), I was curious to see how such a diamond would look.
And no, tiff’s won’t dismantle the ring and sell off the parts ;-)
 

Snowdrop13

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 27, 2011
Messages
2,026
Sorry, is this the 78k 2.5 ct T&Co? H? With all of that leakage? I hope you are independently wealthy because you are being hosed unless it has been personally blessed by the Pope and mined on the moon. Maybe since you “bought” it they will let you return the (overpriced) center stone and just buy the (overpriced) setting?

PS while you are in see it to believe it mode maybe you should buy this which may be the most beautiful at HPD right now? They will send it to you try out. Then you could get it set locally or the could mount it. https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD10791
Gorgeous HPD stone, nice specs too!
 

astara25

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 11, 2018
Messages
42
Gorgeous HPD stone, nice specs too!
Yes, that is a great HPD option (thanks, Lydia!). Thing is that my hopeful-to-be has a size 5 finger and has mentioned she wants to stay around 2.5cts...for daily wearability and not something too large!

good news is there are a lot of good options out there! I just need to set aside time to review.

thanks,everyone for your input and this resourceful site! Hope to pay it forward one day!
 

astara25

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 11, 2018
Messages
42
Yes, that is a great HPD option (thanks, Lydia!). Thing is that my hopeful-to-be has a size 5 finger and has mentioned she wants to stay around 2.5cts...for daily wearability and not something too large!

good news is there are a lot of good options out there! I just need to set aside time to review.

thanks,everyone for your input and this resourceful site! Hope to pay it forward one day!
And ps: I see many are warning of DSS (lol) but her finger will presumably stay the same size for the foreseeable future, so as a % of finger coverage hopefully her opinion won’t change too much. She has made it clear that 2.5ish is where she wants to be
 

astara25

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 11, 2018
Messages
42
Hi everyone,

In digging a little deeper on cut a few questions popped up...i have the ideal proportions but wanted to get a better sense of how a slightly deep diamond or a table >60% might impact the appearance?
Similarly, for the crown and pavilion angles, i understand there risk a relationship between the two but assuming one is within the ideal specs and the other is not, how would that reflect the optics?

I tried finding links specific to this but no luck...so apologies if this has been addressed in other threads! :)
 

AprilBaby

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 17, 2008
Messages
11,153

Garry H (Cut Nut)

Super_Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 15, 2000
Messages
15,670
Hi everyone,

In digging a little deeper on cut a few questions popped up...i have the ideal proportions but wanted to get a better sense of how a slightly deep diamond or a table >60% might impact the appearance?
Similarly, for the crown and pavilion angles, i understand there risk a relationship between the two but assuming one is within the ideal specs and the other is not, how would that reflect the optics?

I tried finding links specific to this but no luck...so apologies if this has been addressed in other threads! :)
2/3rds the way down on this link to page 2 - the pretty colored chart
 

lydial

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Oct 10, 2010
Messages
621
Hi everyone,

In digging a little deeper on cut a few questions popped up...i have the ideal proportions but wanted to get a better sense of how a slightly deep diamond or a table >60% might impact the appearance?
Similarly, for the crown and pavilion angles, i understand there risk a relationship between the two but assuming one is within the ideal specs and the other is not, how would that reflect the optics?

I tried finding links specific to this but no luck...so apologies if this has been addressed in other threads! :)
Hi, I am (hopefully) not going to offend you. But here goes. You can spend a lot of time asking questions about optics and cut of MRB diamonds here. You will not find a MRB of 75k price with a 60 table worth buying. Just dig a few inches on the forum and you will find the ideal cut suggestions on many many posts. Outside the “play nice” ideal proportions... the stone won’t be ideal. Spend a few hours looking at ACA and HPD AGS certs on their sites. That will educate you in itself. But as you are planning to spend a wee extreme fortune on a shiny 2.5 ct pebble, my advice is to buy a branded stone (T&Co, ACA, VC, HPD, Brian Gavin) and let the world experts in the field point you in a direction before you go down a rabbit hole of bad choices. Get her a 2.5 ct D/E VVS or better branded no flour ideal cut, spend 50k. Call it a day. You won’t spend the fortune, overwhelm the tiny hand, or disappoint.
 

astara25

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 11, 2018
Messages
42
2/3rds the way down on this link to page 2 - the pretty colored chart
Excellent matrix and very interesting discussion, thank you!
 

astara25

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 11, 2018
Messages
42
Hi, I am (hopefully) not going to offend you. But here goes. You can spend a lot of time asking questions about optics and cut of MRB diamonds here. You will not find a MRB of 75k price with a 60 table worth buying. Just dig a few inches on the forum and you will find the ideal cut suggestions on many many posts. Outside the “play nice” ideal proportions... the stone won’t be ideal. Spend a few hours looking at ACA and HPD AGS certs on their sites. That will educate you in itself. But as you are planning to spend a wee extreme fortune on a shiny 2.5 ct pebble, my advice is to buy a branded stone (T&Co, ACA, VC, HPD, Brian Gavin) and let the world experts in the field point you in a direction before you go down a rabbit hole of bad choices. Get her a 2.5 ct D/E VVS or better branded no flour ideal cut, spend 50k. Call it a day. You won’t spend the fortune, overwhelm the tiny hand, or disappoint.
No offense taken but calm down already, I don't appreciate the glib 'tude.

Did it ever occur to you that I am asking out of pure intellectual interest outside of my objective to purchase a diamond (incidental)? Also, I get the sense I am a victim of 'ageism' here but from a demographic perspective, I am >40 years old (and yes, perhaps should know all this already but i have a pretty intense occupation and therefore limited time as I already have a stack of whitepapers to read for my job!)

As i mentioned, I have the ideal cut proportions thanks to tooling around on this great site and was asking about the interrelationships between those attributes (think factor analysis or PCA). I know enough to realize that it's more than just about standalone data points in a vacuum.

Also, not that I have to rationalize my inquiries, decision or approach but the reason i am asking these questions and doing the research is to validate whether branded stones are worth it (consensus, including my own, points to a hard "no" but ultimately, i need to balance the objective with the subjective - or what I think she wants, which isn't what this all about anyway!?) For the record, I won't be getting a colorless/flawless but trying to optimize here as is everyone else.

Your reference of a diamond as a pebble is ridiculous. Pretty sure no one, including yourself, would be obsessively pouring over this web site if it were...

Everyone, apologies for the digression!
 

lydial

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Oct 10, 2010
Messages
621
No offense taken but calm down already, I don't appreciate the glib 'tude.

Did it ever occur to you that I am asking out of pure intellectual interest outside of my objective to purchase a diamond (incidental)? Also, I get the sense I am a victim of 'ageism' here but from a demographic perspective, I am >40 years old (and yes, perhaps should know all this already but i have a pretty intense occupation and therefore limited time as I already have a stack of whitepapers to read for my job!)

As i mentioned, I have the ideal cut proportions thanks to tooling around on this great site and was asking about the interrelationships between those attributes (think factor analysis or PCA). I know enough to realize that it's more than just about standalone data points in a vacuum.

Also, not that I have to rationalize my inquiries, decision or approach but the reason i am asking these questions and doing the research is to validate whether branded stones are worth it (consensus, including my own, points to a hard "no" but ultimately, i need to balance the objective with the subjective - or what I think she wants, which isn't what this all about anyway!?) For the record, I won't be getting a colorless/flawless but trying to optimize here as is everyone else.

Your reference of a diamond as a pebble is ridiculous. Pretty sure no one, including yourself, would be obsessively pouring over this web site if it were...

Everyone, apologies for the digression!
Interesting theory about the ageism, considering most of us are older too. And “successful” ... Which is why we have time and nerdy hobbies. I just do not want to see you ripped off. If you are throwing away good money by paying a 50% premium I just hope you have it to spare.

for me: This is just a hobby; I don’t even really love jewelry. Just rocks. And I want to learn to be a gem cutter. I was planning to start lapidary school this month before the pandemic. Anyway, I personally think you are going to find yourself with a T & Co if you can not find similar super ideal inventory; there is just not much out there. You are just overpaying by maybe 50%. If you are planning to spend that same amount of dough on a diamond (and 2.5 ct is small for a 75k budget, thus the “pebble” comment), you are safer staying with cut that is super ideal. The fact that you are asking about 60/60 stones with a 2.5 ct goal and a 75 k budget all points to some potentially very overprice non ideal (as in very white, no rainbows) diamonds that you might be looking at. That is all. Good luck. Hope you find something she/you like. But as you are a busy busy person the branded stones (ACA or HPD, which are on the pricier side or T&Co which is priced far and above value) are going to be a much easier purchase. Or there are some at James Allen and Blue Nile, you need to dig and get the certs and research and look at videos... exhausting. Those stones are for people who love the search and don’t want the ACA and HPD prices let alone T&Co. Start a new thread and some expert shoppers can find something in your specs if you aren’t going for T& Co. But if you have loads of money and it won’t send you into debt why not just buy a T& co? You can afford it.
 

astara25

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 11, 2018
Messages
42
Interesting theory about the ageism, considering most of us are older too. And “successful” ... Which is why we have time and nerdy hobbies. I just do not want to see you ripped off. If you are throwing away good money by paying a 50% premium I just hope you have it to spare.

for me: This is just a hobby; I don’t even really love jewelry. Just rocks. And I want to learn to be a gem cutter. I was planning to start lapidary school this month before the pandemic. Anyway, I personally think you are going to find yourself with a T & Co if you can not find similar super ideal inventory; there is just not much out there. You are just overpaying by maybe 50%. If you are planning to spend that same amount of dough on a diamond (and 2.5 ct is small for a 75k budget, thus the “pebble” comment), you are safer staying with cut that is super ideal. The fact that you are asking about 60/60 stones with a 2.5 ct goal and a 75 k budget all points to some potentially very overprice non ideal (as in very white, no rainbows) diamonds that you might be looking at. That is all. Good luck. Hope you find something she/you like. But as you are a busy busy person the branded stones (ACA or HPD, which are on the pricier side or T&Co which is priced far and above value) are going to be a much easier purchase. Or there are some at James Allen and Blue Nile, you need to dig and get the certs and research and look at videos... exhausting. Those stones are for people who love the search and don’t want the ACA and HPD prices let alone T&Co. Start a new thread and some expert shoppers can find something in your specs if you aren’t going for T& Co. But if you have loads of money and it won’t send you into debt why not just buy a T& co? You can afford it.
Appreciate your 0.02. I don't think anyone wants to be ripped off regardless of their financial situation (i rather take the proceeds and pay whoever launched this site, or donate to charity) but there is a balance to be struck here between ideal vs what in her mind is theoretically ideal (which as i have discovered is in many cases is not).

From the various links and research, the premium is more in the 30% range though when setting, etc is factored in. Also, there was only one T &Co ring that I looked at and that was the one i scoped. I did this out of curiosity not bcs those are my hard criteria, which is why i started digging (and didn't ask about 60/60's). Also, i am asking for certs for all diamond and will scope & UV/LED loupe each one before making a decision. Iam not sold that Tiff's has any super ideal or ideal cut rings and the inventory for 2.5 is surprisingly small for such a large retailer!

I can see why you want to become a cutter as the physics and science of it all is so interesting (back to the q's i was asking out of sheer curiosity, outside of just assessing prospective rocks). That's the thing - while pressed for time, i enjoy this sort of research, it is not a hassle to me and just a matter of prioritizing.
Speaking of cost, how much is lapidary school and how long are the courses?

In terms of inventory, yeah have discovered there isn't a whole lot out there even in the 2.5 range that is ideal or decent and this is another upside to not going for a larger weight/size.
 
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lydial

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Oct 10, 2010
Messages
621
Appreciate your 0.02. I don't think anyone wants to be ripped off regardless of their financial situation (i rather take the proceeds and pay whoever launched this site, or donate to charity) but there is a balance to be struck here between ideal vs what in her mind is theoretically ideal (which as i have discovered is in many cases is not).

From the various links and research, the premium is more in the 30% range though when setting, etc is factored in. Also, there was only one T &Co ring that I looked at and that was the one i scoped. I did this out of curiosity not bcs those are my hard criteria, which is why i started digging (and didn't ask about 60/60's). Also, i am asking for certs for all diamond and will scope & UV/LED loupe each one before making a decision. Iam not sold that Tiff's has any super ideal or ideal cut rings and the inventory for 2.5 is surprisingly small for such a large retailer!

I can see why you want to become a cutter as the physics and science of it all is so interesting (back to the q's i was asking out of sheer curiosity, outside of just assessing prospective rocks). That's the thing - while pressed for time, i enjoy this sort of research, it is not a hassle to me and just a matter of prioritizing.
Speaking of cost, how much is lapidary school and how long are the courses?

In terms of inventory, yeah have discovered there isn't a whole lot out there even in the 2.5 range that is ideal or decent and this is another upside to not going for a larger weight/size.
The lapidary school near me is inexpensive. Classes cost about the same as my pottery classes (I am an experienced potter/sculpor) so about $300 per 12 weeks - 2-3 hours a week. You start with cabochons, then faceting. Again good luck! Read everything Gary posts. He started PriceScope.
 

astara25

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 11, 2018
Messages
42
The lapidary school near me is inexpensive. Classes cost about the same as my pottery classes (I am an experienced potter/sculpor) so about $300 per 12 weeks - 2-3 hours a week. You start with cabochons, then faceting. Again good luck! Read everything Gary posts. He started PriceScope.
Ahhh, Garry! So indebted to you! Thank you so much for this great resource and your input.
 
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