Thoughts on this 2ct Antique Cushion?

[eli212]

Hi all, first time posting. Just looking for thoughts on this 2ct antique cushion/old mine cut diamond.

Here are the specs:
Shape: Old Mine Brilliant
Clarity: I2
Weight: 2.03
Dimensions: 8.0 x 7.54 x 4.86
Color Grade: K
Clarity: I2
Depth: 64%

Seems like my girlfriend is set on this one but I'd like a second opinion.
Here is a video of it in action under a spotlight. There is an inclusion under the table and one near the edge but they are light colored and not visible from arms length.

Thank you!




pictured on top here.




on the left here.

 

[foxinsox]

Based off those pictures and the video, I quite like it. It might be a bit dark under the table but it’s hard to tell. Do you/she like the facet pattern? What does it look like close up and face on? Does it light up across the face of the stone or are there any odd patches of darkness or areas that never light up?
What is it like outside of spotlighting - in diffuse light, outside etc? Most anything can look good in jewellery store lights but you want to see how it lights up under your usual lighting conditions.

 

[OoohShiny]

You could order an ASETscope to ascertain its light performance

 

[Matthews1127]

I concur with @OoohShiny, and @foxinsox. Not very easy to evaluate with limitations. If you can see it in different light environments, and if an ASET is available, it will be interesting to see the facet pattern, and know for sure it will not be dull in any areas. The video makes a great argument to pull the trigger, but, as is mentioned, jewelry store lighting is designed to make even the mediocre look stellar!!! I can see why your lovely lady is attracted to that stone; I do hope it passes the "test". It would make one hell of an ER!!!

 

[tyty333]

The faceting looks nice but it does look a little dark under the table straight on. Is she ok with that? At tilts it looks like it is reflecting light.
Can you order it and check it out...return if its not to your liking?

 

[eli212]

Thanks everyone for your replies.

Based off those pictures and the video, I quite like it. It might be a bit dark under the table but it’s hard to tell. Do you/she like the facet pattern? What does it look like close up and face on? Does it light up across the face of the stone or are there any odd patches of darkness or areas that never light up?
What is it like outside of spotlighting - in diffuse light, outside etc? Most anything can look good in jewellery store lights but you want to see how it lights up under your usual lighting conditions.

We didn't notice darkness under the table while looking at it in person but we weren't necessarily looking for it either. She does like the facet pattern--it looks more, unfortunately those are the best pictures she has of it head on. It looked good in the various kinds of lighting in the office where we looked at it. Most of those photos are under fluorescent office lighting--not the jewelry store window kind.

 

[eli212]

You could order an ASETscope to ascertain its light performance

Good idea, going to work on this!

 

[eli212]

I concur with @OoohShiny, and @foxinsox. Not very easy to evaluate with limitations. If you can see it in different light environments, and if an ASET is available, it will be interesting to see the facet pattern, and know for sure it will not be dull in any areas. The video makes a great argument to pull the trigger, but, as is mentioned, jewelry store lighting is designed to make even the mediocre look stellar!!! I can see why your lovely lady is attracted to that stone; I do hope it passes the "test". It would make one hell of an ER!!!

Working on getting an ASET. She does like like it a lot from what she's seen so far. We didn't expect to get something so large for our budget so that too is certainly a draw.

 

[HappyNewLife]

it sounds like you're both happy with it, so I think it may be the one! Can't wait to see the ASET!

How are you going to set it?

 

[eli212]

The faceting looks nice but it does look a little dark under the table straight on. Is she ok with that? At tilts it looks like it is reflecting light.
Can you order it and check it out...return if its not to your liking?

I believe so, going to see if that is a possibility. Here are some more pictures and an extra video.

on top here

 

[tyty333]

If the stone is local to you you can buy an aset scope and see if the stone is reflecting light from under the table.
David Atlas sells them.
https://datlas.com/ideal-scope-store/

 

[LightBright]

I really like the stone’s shape and faceting. Keep in mind that it is not going to be a perfect ASET. Personally, I wouldn’t even bother with an ASET, most old cuts will exhibit some sort of “ASET wonk” and I believe using an ASET to make a decision will eliminate many nice stones. I would make sure there is a good return policy (30 days). IMO, what it looks like to your eyes in various light and setting conditions matters MORE than what the ASET looks like.

I do have a couple thoughts before you buy this stone.

First, is the stone GIA graded? I2 is not a GIA term, I believe. I think you should be sure the stone is actually a “K” color and that you are paying a fair price for an I2 possibly lower color stone. It looks lower than a K. I would make sure you aren’t paying for a K if it isn’t a K. With Clarity grading there is so much variability, but I do think some inclusions are better than others. I have seen some amazing I1 stones, and some real duds. This stone’s inclusions are visible at times and you may not want to combine that with a lower color unless the price is really excellent.

Second, I would look around for other old cut stones in the same price range as this one. I happen to like this stone’s chunky faceting and shape, and I do think the old mine cushion form factor is on the rarer side. So if the price is right and you love it, go for it. Just be sure to go into the sale educated on your options (comparative stones available in your price range...from other vendors), and on the true grading and true value of this particular stone.

 

[eli212]

I really like the stone’s shape and faceting. Keep in mind that it is not going to be a perfect ASET. Personally, I wouldn’t even bother with an ASET, most old cuts will exhibit some sort of “ASET wonk” and I believe using an ASET to make a decision will eliminate many nice stones. I would make sure there is a good return policy (30 days). IMO, what it looks like to your eyes in various light and setting conditions matters MORE than what the ASET looks like.

I do have a couple thoughts before you buy this stone.

First, is the stone GIA graded? I2 is not a GIA term, I believe. I think you should be sure the stone is actually a “K” color and that you are paying a fair price for an I2 possibly lower color stone. It looks lower than a K. I would make sure you aren’t paying for a K if it isn’t a K. With Clarity grading there is so much variability, but I do think some inclusions are better than others. I have seen some amazing I1 stones, and some real duds. This stone’s inclusions are visible at times and you may not want to combine that with a lower color unless the price is really excellent.

Second, I would look around for other old cut stones in the same price range as this one. I happen to like this stone’s chunky faceting and shape, and I do think the old mine cushion form factor is on the rarer side. So if the price is right and you love it, go for it. Just be sure to go into the sale educated on your options (comparative stones available in your price range...from other vendors), and on the true grading and true value of this particular stone.

Thanks for this thoughtful reply. It is GIA Graded. Here is the certificate.
The color seems cooler toned to me than some GIA M or OP stones we looked at so I think a K is accurate. We happen to not mind the lower color stones anyhow. The price is comparable to 1.5 old miner stones in the OP range but with clarity in the VS range that we've seen. That seems fair given this is a much lower on the clarity scale. There is a ten day return policy. It's looking like the vendor cannot provide an ASET so we would have to buy the scope and go look at it or else have an ASET done after purchasing.

If anyone here has experience with included stones I'd be curious to know if the inclusions bothered you more or less over time. Did the distraction of having a large sparkly stone wear off?

Thank you

 

[foxinsox]

I've not got an included stone nor one as big as the one you're considering but mine has a couple of chips. I can see them if I look for them but they doesn't bother me. I see them as like beauty marks to identify my diamond as mine.
For me, if anything, the distraction of the sparkles has grown more over time rather than wearing off.
If you like the stone (I think it's really pretty plus that shape is gorgeous) and you've got a return window with no questions asked, I would get it, set it in a temp setting asap then wear the hell out of it and see if there's anything that bugs you.

 

[rockysalamander]

I would have concerns about the two area circled in blue when choosing a setting and actually setting the diamond. Without the diamond in front of us, its hard to say if there are concerns or not, but these are areas along the girdle that may be subject to damage. The fact that it has survived thus far does not help much as you don't know much about the former wearer and its setting (maybe it was worn once a year...).

I would not avoid the diamond, if it otherwise checks out based on the above advice, simply be aware that these areas may need some care. I would really love to see you work with someone with deep old cut experience when thinking of a setting (and be really open minded about that design to make sure this lovely stone will survive for another 70+ years). Some PS known vendors would be Love Affair Diamonds, CVB Inspired Design and David Klass.

 

[tlfiore]

@eli212 I am not a diamond expert but just a consumer who loves all things old, including old diamonds & old jewelry. The folks on this forum are great and very kind, helpful and knowledgeable. The "experts" or industry people are extremely helpful to us average consumers.

The only piece of advice I'd like to offer IS from a CONSUMER's perspective...and it is this: Please do not fall into the trap I recently did trying to procure and find the best of everything (setting & diamond) because it can become a quagmire based on budget, values, priorities and personal tolerance.

I think your diamond is beautiful. I think you are a wonderful guy for considering it and your to-be fiancé is Blessed to have you in her life. If you like it, buy it...it is gorgeous and lovely!

When I recently inquired about an extremely beautiful MRB 1.65 ct diamond @ H color but I1 for a custom setting I just had designed, I balked at it. The diamond broker, who seemed like a very nice man, spent a lot of time explaining aspects about diamond purchases and settings to me. Much of what this man said resonated with me quite a bit.

I know...you all are thinking "sales, sales, sales!" And yes, I haven't lived under a rock, so I know this is an aspect of the broker's spiel. But common sense tells me, some of what the guy said is VERY TRUE!

And yes...I think when one gets to a SI1, SI2 or I1 diamond, it's best to see it IRL 'cause it's hard to tell how it will perform, if one will like it. Frankly, even IRL, I as an "average Jane" had a really hard time seeing inclusions on many 2.0 carat MRB.

I DO KNOW due to the cut characteristics, MRBs mask inclusions a lot better than do Mine and Cushion Cuts...learned that much!

For some folks, it's all about the diamond (especially for very large diamonds, certain styles, certain vintages, certain cuts). For others, it's the setting. For most of us, it's the TOTAL PICTURE, diamond and setting and the story centering around the "ring" at whatever point in our lives.

AND at smaller carat weights and certain cuts, NO ONE will notice certain inclusions...no one.

I don't want to hurt or insult anyone here and I mean this in the most complimentary way. Several PSers reached out to me and helped me understand that "many of us who troll Price Scope can LOVE much of what we see here but it doesn't mean it works for US." Many of the professionals or industry folks who frequent this forum, as well as some of the non-industry members are ACCUSTOMED to working with/being around folks who literally own jewelry worth millions of dollars. That's not most of us, I imagine.

I learned the hard way that many things I see on Price Scope are not things that will necessarily work for me. Good luck, the diamond is lovely and I wish you happiness in the future!

 

[tlfiore]

I've not got an included stone nor one as big as the one you're considering but mine has a couple of chips. I can see them if I look for them but they doesn't bother me. I see them as like beauty marks to identify my diamond as mine.
For me, if anything, the distraction of the sparkles has grown more over time rather than wearing off.
If you like the stone (I think it's really pretty plus that shape is gorgeous) and you've got a return window with no questions asked, I would get it, set it in a temp setting asap then wear the hell out of it and see if there's anything that bugs you.

Yes, yes and yes! Very true and much more succinctly and eloquently stated than that which I wrote above! Good insight @foxinsox Thank you!

 

[eli212]

it sounds like you're both happy with it, so I think it may be the one! Can't wait to see the ASET!

How are you going to set it?

She wants to set it either like this

In a collet/bezel (images from Bell and Bird)

or like this


in a belcher setting (images from Verma estate)

 

[eli212]

I've not got an included stone nor one as big as the one you're considering but mine has a couple of chips. I can see them if I look for them but they doesn't bother me. I see them as like beauty marks to identify my diamond as mine.
For me, if anything, the distraction of the sparkles has grown more over time rather than wearing off.
If you like the stone (I think it's really pretty plus that shape is gorgeous) and you've got a return window with no questions asked, I would get it, set it in a temp setting asap then wear the hell out of it and see if there's anything that bugs you.

That's great to know that even knowing where inclusions or chips are doesn't make them bothersome and that it's a way for the stone to be identified as yours. I think we are going to purchase and take it home to examine more closely and see if the inclusion under the table is too distracting. Thank you for your input!

 

[eli212]

I would have concerns about the two area circled in blue when choosing a setting and actually setting the diamond. Without the diamond in front of us, its hard to say if there are concerns or not, but these are areas along the girdle that may be subject to damage. The fact that it has survived thus far does not help much as you don't know much about the former wearer and its setting (maybe it was worn once a year...).

I would not avoid the diamond, if it otherwise checks out based on the above advice, simply be aware that these areas may need some care. I would really love to see you work with someone with deep old cut experience when thinking of a setting (and be really open minded about that design to make sure this lovely stone will survive for another 70+ years). Some PS known vendors would be Love Affair Diamonds, CVB Inspired Design and David Klass.

That's great advice @rockysalamander --It's easy to assume that if things have lasted as long as they have they will be fine for another 100 years! I'll look into the vendors you mentioned. Are the types of inclusions you circled at risk of getting larger or compromising the stones overall strength?

 

[tyty333]

Part of the girdle is "Very thin", you might ask them to show you the area of very thin girdle. Check it out under a loupe. If it is that corner where there
is a lot going on I would be a little concerned...If it were me*, I would probably put it in a setting that protected the girdle somewhat...8 prongs are good but
I* would probably go with a fake bezel. Chances are your stone will be just fine...just depends how careful you want to be with it or how much you're going
worry about it.

Something like this...where the girdle is set low enough to be protected by the faux bezel.
https://www.etsy.com/listing/262250529/the-cvb-zoe-art-deco-style-octagonal?ref=shop_home_active_67

You can see more in this thread...
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/show-me-settings-that-have-claws-and-a-bezel.231189/

 

[LightBright]

She wants to set it either like this

In a collet/bezel (images from Bell and Bird)

or like this


in a belcher setting (images from Verma estate)

I love these settings. Wow, it’s going to be beautiful. I’ve never seen the first setting, it is incredibly unique and even modern looking. Thank you for sharing!

These settings in yellow gold will be absolutely beautiful with that color.

You asked about inclusions. My opinion about inclusions is that they are a stone’s birthmarks. If they don’t other me initially, they don’t usually become a “problem” later. One trend now is rustic stones which are lower in color or have much more obvious inclusions than your stone does. From the videos and photos you posted, this stone seems very lively with a classic chunky look, and my opinion is that the sheer interest and liveliness of light will dominate any internal specks.

I have seen beautiful plain (no pave) solitaire settings come from Adam’s bench at Old World Diamonds (I’m not sure what his price point is) As mentioned before, I think David Klass could execute either of these styles as well. Love Affaire Diamonds has a low to the finger setting that I really love, called ”The Chelsea” that I don’t think I’m allowed to link to, but you might find it to be a nice blend of the two settings you like.

Good luck.

 

[eli212]

@eli212 I am not a diamond expert but just a consumer who loves all things old, including old diamonds & old jewelry. The folks on this forum are great and very kind, helpful and knowledgeable. The "experts" or industry people are extremely helpful to us average consumers.

The only piece of advice I'd like to offer IS from a CONSUMER's perspective...and it is this: Please do not fall into the trap I recently did trying to procure and find the best of everything (setting & diamond) because it can become a quagmire based on budget, values, priorities and personal tolerance.

I think your diamond is beautiful. I think you are a wonderful guy for considering it and your to-be fiancé is Blessed to have you in her life. If you like it, buy it...it is gorgeous and lovely!

When I recently inquired about an extremely beautiful MRB 1.65 ct diamond @ H color but I1 for a custom setting I just had designed, I balked at it. The diamond broker, who seemed like a very nice man, spent a lot of time explaining aspects about diamond purchases and settings to me. Much of what this man said resonated with me quite a bit.

I know...you all are thinking "sales, sales, sales!" And yes, I haven't lived under a rock, so I know this is an aspect of the broker's spiel. But common sense tells me, some of what the guy said is VERY TRUE!

And yes...I think when one gets to a SI1, SI2 or I1 diamond, it's best to see it IRL 'cause it's hard to tell how it will perform, if one will like it. Frankly, even IRL, I as an "average Jane" had a really hard time seeing inclusions on many 2.0 carat MRB.

I DO KNOW due to the cut characteristics, MRBs mask inclusions a lot better than do Mine and Cushion Cuts...learned that much!

For some folks, it's all about the diamond (especially for very large diamonds, certain styles, certain vintages, certain cuts). For others, it's the setting. For most of us, it's the TOTAL PICTURE, diamond and setting and the story centering around the "ring" at whatever point in our lives.

AND at smaller carat weights and certain cuts, NO ONE will notice certain inclusions...no one.

I don't want to hurt or insult anyone here and I mean this in the most complimentary way. Several PSers reached out to me and helped me understand that "many of us who troll Price Scope can LOVE much of what we see here but it doesn't mean it works for US." Many of the professionals or industry folks who frequent this forum, as well as some of the non-industry members are ACCUSTOMED to working with/being around folks who literally own jewelry worth millions of dollars. That's not most of us, I imagine.

I learned the hard way that many things I see on Price Scope are not things that will necessarily work for me. Good luck, the diamond is lovely and I wish you happiness in the future!

Thank you for all of this and for your kind words. We are definitely in that quagmire stage. My girlfriend was just saying that after spending time on the forums here it can be easy to get caught up in all of the details and stats while taking in the immense amount of expert advice posted here.
For most people, us included (no pun intended), who aren't around giant perfect stones all of the time I'm sure this stone we've picked will look great!

Going to purchase and take home to get a feel for it. Thanks again @tlfiore.

 

[eli212]

Part of the girdle is "Very thin", you might ask them to show you the area of very thin girdle. Check it out under a loupe. If it is that corner where there
is a lot going on I would be a little concerned...If it were me*, I would probably put it in a setting that protected the girdle somewhat...8 prongs are good but
I* would probably go with a fake bezel. Chances are your stone will be just fine...just depends how careful you want to be with it or how much you're going
worry about it.

Something like this...where the girdle is set low enough to be protected by the faux bezel.
https://www.etsy.com/listing/262250529/the-cvb-zoe-art-deco-style-octagonal?ref=shop_home_active_67

You can see more in this thread...
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/show-me-settings-that-have-claws-and-a-bezel.231189/

@tyty333 We have a loupe at home so once we get the stone we will take a look to see if the very thin area lines up with where the areas of concern are on the plot. My girlfriend loves these bezel/prong setting! Thanks for pointing us in that direction. I'd be curious to see how that looks on an antique cushion instead of the round stones in those examples.

 

[foxinsox]

She wants to set it either like this

In a collet/bezel (images from Bell and Bird)

or like this


in a belcher setting (images from Verma estate)

Ohhhh the collet would look fantastic. I’m stalking a bunch of collet-set earrings online atm and a ring would be gorgeous. Whatever you do decide for settings, please come back and show us pictures?

 

[rockysalamander]

Love the idea to go with CVB. Like all custom designs, but be clear on your timelines and level of communication desired to be sure you are on the same page as her.

Once you get some CADs, you an start a new thread and we can help review them with you.

 

[eli212]

I love these settings. Wow, it’s going to be beautiful. I’ve never seen the first setting, it is incredibly unique and even modern looking. Thank you for sharing!

These settings in yellow gold will be absolutely beautiful with that color.

You asked about inclusions. My opinion about inclusions is that they are a stone’s birthmarks. If they don’t other me initially, they don’t usually become a “problem” later. One trend now is rustic stones which are lower in color or have much more obvious inclusions than your stone does. From the videos and photos you posted, this stone seems very lively with a classic chunky look, and my opinion is that the sheer interest and liveliness of light will dominate any internal specks.

I have seen beautiful plain (no pave) solitaire settings come from Adam’s bench at Old World Diamonds (I’m not sure what his price point is) As mentioned before, I think David Klass could execute either of these styles as well. Love Affaire Diamonds has a low to the finger setting that I really love, called ”The Chelsea” that I don’t think I’m allowed to link to, but you might find it to be a nice blend of the two settings you like.

Good luck.

Hi @LightBright! Thank you! We are getting a quote from David Klass. We hadn't looked at his work prior to you mentioning him but my girlfriend loves it. Going to purchase the stone this week and see how we feel. My girlfriend took a look at the Chelsea too and liked it too! So many good options out there. Once we have decided on the stone we can dive into settings!

 

[eli212]

Love the idea to go with CVB. Like all custom designs, but be clear on your timelines and level of communication desired to be sure you are on the same page as her.

Once you get some CADs, you an start a new thread and we can help review them with you.

Thanks @rockysalamander. We haven't looked at CVB's work before but we will check it out. Not too much of a rush to get the ring so timeline isn't too much of an issue. Thank you for the suggestion. Going to try to get the stone this week and move forward from there.

Thank you!

 

[LightBright]

Hi @LightBright! Thank you! We are getting a quote from David Klass. We hadn't looked at his work prior to you mentioning him but my girlfriend loves it. Going to purchase the stone this week and see how we feel. My girlfriend took a look at the Chelsea too and liked it too! So many good options out there. Once we have decided on the stone we can dive into settings!

So many good options! I wanted to also show you a setting, that is perfection, that Old World Diamond’s bench did for one of our members’ (“Divine Miss M from Old world diamonds”). See this link for a gorgeous example of an antique cushion in a plain solitaire setting: https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/my-divine-miss-m-from-oldworlddiamonds.234272/

Oldworlddiamonds on Instagram — I’m loving all their settings posted there.

Please keep us posted!!