Thoughts about CHAZ in Seattle?

[yssie]

Occasionally I imagine where we might be had Trump been human enough to respond to Floyd’s murder with empathetic, confident, reassuring messaging. Sadly for us all - he’s a sadist.

 

[missy]

Thank you @Volute and @rainwood for your firsthand perspective. Very enlightening and reassuring.

 

[missy]

Occasionally I imagine where we might be had Trump been human enough to respond to Floyd’s murder with empathetic, confident, reassuring messaging. Sadly for us all - he’s a sadist.

Yes he is and he is also (IMO) very stupid. You are so right. This could have been a turning point for him and his re-election. I am glad he didn't disappoint though because we are sure to get rid of him now. !!!

 

[TooPatient]

I don't know the source. Whatever is going on, there are firearm violations here. Even just handing them out to people you don't know violates one law that, I believe, was passed.

 

[lovedogs]

I too live in Seattle, not the suburbs, (used to live not far from that area), and agree with EVERYTHING Volute said. In many ways, CHAZ is such a Seattle thing, and the media coverage of it is both amusing and deeply disturbing. We're fine, the city is fine, and the rest of the country just needs to simmer down and worry about their own communities.

My joke about Trump and Fox making it into an antifa takeover - which it never was - is that the battlecry would have been, "Teriyaki for everybody!" which is a joke only Seattleites would get.

I grew up in Seattle and my family is still there. Everything I've heard from people who live there echos exactly this and what @Volute said. This isn't the insane ANARCHY/ANTIFA nonsense that Trump/Fox/others are pretending it is.

 

[TooPatient]

I grew up in Seattle and my family is still there. Everything I've heard from people who live there echos exactly this and what @Volute said. This isn't the insane ANARCHY/ANTIFA nonsense that Trump/Fox/others are pretending it is.

The comment I keep seeing from friends who live within blocks of there is that it is like a cross between a campout and a farmers market.

I don't think they can be allowed to keep going this way because it is breaking laws, but it looks like a reasonably civilized thing as far as it goes.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Just dropping in to say that the US is a constitutional republic. Anarchy is not the way to make change in the US. Voting is how we legally make changes, either by directly voting on a new law or policy (usually locally) or electing leaders who represent us. I don't believe anarchists should be given anything they ask for. If they are, then we will see an increase in anarchy and associated violence (by some, not all, obviously).

 

[Musia]

and what does all these city leaders have in common?

liberals!

 

[the_mother_thing]

I’m sure the streets do look juuuust peachy during the day ... like a regular peaceful street festival with bake sales, fruit stands and indie-artists. I’ve seen those same images on various news sources; but at night, it appears to be a different story, as TP kindly shared:

I don't know the source. Whatever is going on, there are firearm violations here. Even just handing them out to people you don't know violates one law that, I believe, was passed.

Oh dear Jesus ... There’s so much that is illegal and just plain dumb AF in that video I can’t even process it all!

Is THIS how Seattle plans to recruit a new “police“ force? Simply walking out on the street at night and asking “who knows how to use a gun?” and handing out firearms like candy to random people with no ID/age check, no idea if they have a criminal history that prevents him/her from legally possessing a firearm, no idea if he’s properly trained to use it much less ever actually fired one before? It’s pretty clear to me none of them are responsible firearm owners nor properly trained: does the distributor operating this “trunk sale” have an FFL? Definitely not. The recipient who took it didn’t first check to ensure the safety was on or clear it/check if it was loaded or had one in the chamber, and he fumbled trying to release the mag like he was a first-time condom user. He is an idiot -- he has no idea who legally owns it, if it’s stolen, if it was ever used in the commission of a crime, etc. And if the real police roll in and arrest that kid with that firearm, his future is screwed courtesy of felony possession, just for starters ... play stupid games, win stupid prizes!

And let’s not overlook the glaring irony here: wasn’t this supposed to be about making “reform” demands by showing how a community can operate/get by without violence, intimidation and fear, and be all “peace, love and tolerance”? If so, why do they need soooo many wanna-be cops w/guns if everyone and everything is so peaceful? I’ve never seen real police guard entryways into and walk around legit “street festivals” armed like that.

Of course, the libs will only keep cheering on this “Senseless in Seattle”-fest until an innocent person is shot/killed ... then they’ll be clamoring for that “gun control” bandwagon again.

 

[Dancing Fire]

liberals!

Is that your final answer?

 

[Tekate]

I am an agnostic and do not believe that there is a superflyguy that is going step in, doesn't that guy/gal know the future can't it step in that flyguy could change the whole scene. That's why I always don't get 'praying' for something...

The point is Black Lives Matter. Period. Ask any black person except maybe Clarence Thomas, that they have never felt as valued as whites, do all the reading you can on what Black Americans think and feel, it's quite an eye opener.

Why can't cops go and do their work? is every cop barricaded in their place of work?

You know what I feel?I feel and hope FOR change for Black Americans, I hope and feel they can start to feel that when they walk down a street a cop won't pull them over and kill them because THAT IS how black men especially feel.

IF you send in the military all is lost, you probably don't remember Kent State but I do, it influenced me. WE SHOULD NEVER SHOOT FELLOW AMERICANS. EVER.

You find it despicable that the military isn't called in, I'd find it despicable if it was. If the government does step in then we are China! I don't want to be China or Russia..

I LOVE WHAT IS GOING ON and I sleep very well because I have known all my adult life that Blacks weren't even 3rd class citizens in this country. Instead of being appalled at what the protesters are doing ask yourself WHY they are doing it? Ask yourself how we got here..

Right now in America, White Lives mean more, a lot more than black lives. Live it, feel it, think about it.


@TheGarnetGirl posted:


I personally think that its just crazy & I think it will be awful when lives are lost (whether they're liberal/conservative, white/black, young/old; everyone's life matters) when our government finally steps in to stop the nonsense and quits letting the baby throw its tantrum if the extremist group doesn't stand down and decide to shoot at the police/military. We have the strongest military in the world and this would be shut down real quick.

I pray that in that city the police are taking their calls from another precinct so innocent people that are being molested, assualted, raped, having home invasions, domestic violence, gang activity, overdoses, or murdered can call 911 and actually reach them. If not I'm not sure how all of the people who are commenting that they "love it" can sleep at night.

It's easy to discriminate against all cops until you actually need them.

Its sad, everyday I feel as though I'm watching the US try and burn themselves down yet
they don't realize they'll soon feel the burn of these actions. Not everything needs to literally burn people.

 

[Tekate]

4 of my nephews live in Seattle 2 with their wives. My SIL lives in Carnation, they all say the same as @Volute, my brother in law works near the CHAZ and he also said there is a disconnect between the hype of the right wing newsites like Fox and what he sees.

My nephews and their wives and fiancee are all millenials and are supportive of the BLM movement, but my SIL and BIL are total conservative pubs.

 

[Tekate]

Our problem right now is fascism of the Trump administration. Yes voting is the way, vote the scum out for sure. But this all has occurred because Black Lives are worth less in our country. People are know seeing, reading and hearing what has been done, best thing about phones and cameras. These are protesters who want change, by this definition https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/anarchist, their demands are for a fairer police force fairer way of life,

BUT voting is the way for change, not even sit ins work for the long term. The young people want to be heard. If one thing I have read over and over on these boards is that the younger people are afraid for their future, they have debt, they are burdened, stagnant life, I've read they aren't starting families, at some point people break.

Just dropping in to say that the US is a constitutional republic. Anarchy is not the way to make change in the US. Voting is how we legally make changes, either by directly voting on a new law or policy (usually locally) or electing leaders who represent us. I don't believe anarchists should be given anything they ask for. If they are, then we will see an increase in anarchy and associated violence (by some, not all, obviously).

 

[1ofakind]

Did you seriously say that all black people feel/think the same except maybe Clarence Thomas???!!!

How do you expect anyone take seriously the rest of your commentary (although I am sure some of it is valid) when you say things like that? I'm guessing you don't even see the problem.

 

[LemonMoonLex]

Just dropping in to say that the US is a constitutional republic. Anarchy is not the way to make change in the US. Voting is how we legally make changes, either by directly voting on a new law or policy (usually locally) or electing leaders who represent us. I don't believe anarchists should be given anything they ask for. If they are, then we will see an increase in anarchy and associated violence (by some, not all, obviously).

100%

 

[TooPatient]

Did you seriously say that all black people feel/think the same except maybe Clarence Thomas???!!!

How do you expect anyone take seriously the rest of your commentary (although I am sure some of it is valid) when you say things like that? I'm guessing you don't even see the problem.

Only the right messages are welcome and any black person who says anything but what the people in CHAZ want to hear are run off.

https://www.reddit.com/r/SeattleWA/comments/h8vaes

 

[the_mother_thing]

Did you seriously say that all black people feel/think the same except maybe Clarence Thomas???!!!

I would imagine black folks probably appreciate being told what & how they feel/think by white folks about as much as women love some good old fashioned man-splaining.

I’m no expert, but I’m pretty confident the goal is to hear the actual ‘experts’ on black life speak about how they feel & why, and what society can do to help effect positive change.

I really don’t know how/where ‘bitter white people with an obvious political agenda’ fits into the process.

 

[TooPatient]

Only the right messages are welcome and any black person who says anything but what the people in CHAZ want to hear are run off.

https://www.reddit.com/r/SeattleWA/comments/h8vaes

Trying for a direct link. I missed that it was embedded.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1271983499763826688

 

[rainwood]

I doubt a right-wing Twitter guy based in Dallas has a better handle on the overall situation in CHAZ than the Seattle PD or the Seattle Times, neither of which is raising concerns. That Reddit thing you posted did include a local complaint they were playing their music too loud all night.

 

[the_mother_thing]

I’m sure Dallas dude has no clue what’s happening on the streets of CHAZ ... because journalists & media types never travel to cities with major stories unfolding ... right?

Give the guy some props ... at least he’s wearing a mask AND socially distancing!

https://twitter.com/x/status/1272590436385857544

 

[rainwood]

Except he's posing at the reservoir at Volunteer Park which is the wrong park and not in the CHAZ zone, but instead several miles away. But maybe he didn't think people would notice.

 

[TooPatient]

Except he's posing at the reservoir at Volunteer Park which is the wrong park and not in the CHAZ zone, but instead several miles away. But maybe he didn't think people would notice.

I admit to avoiding Seattle when at all possible! I couldn't recognize most areas of Seattle compared to any other area or, for that matter, an entirely different city.

I expect the video is real as mention was made of the event by several different people who are following more closely.

 

[the_mother_thing]

Except he's posing at the reservoir at Volunteer Park which is the wrong park and not in the CHAZ zone, but instead several miles away. But maybe he didn't think people would notice.

That ‘beach’ pic was obvious satire ...stop swimming in denial & take a peek at his feed ... with footage inside the ‘zone’ & links to others. Not exactly bake sales, safe spaces & hug-fests ... the person being pinned down/choked below is alleged to be a preacher! Are they not allowed in CHAZ? Why would anyone be pinned down like that at such a ‘peaceful‘ event?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1271895685873295360

https://twitter.com/x/status/1272444140727361537

I couldn’t help but chuckle at this gem (edited for language):

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

I am utterly baffled by this!

How will this play out?

Are they going to send in the military? Will they just leave? Are they doing to be a mini nation in there for the rest if their days? Will they let the people in that zone flee to the outside world before they bunker in and declare their own country? Is it a monarchy? Democracy? Just how the heck is this going to end??? Where is the usual government???

 

[TooPatient]

I am utterly baffled by this!

How will this play out?

Are they going to send in the military? Will they just leave? Are they doing to be a mini nation in there for the rest if their days? Will they let the people in that zone flee to the outside world before they bunker in and declare their own country? Is it a monarchy? Democracy? Just how the heck is this going to end??? Where is the usual government???

Some people are trying to leave. Hard to do when you can't get a moving truck in....

One local news article:

‘No idea what’s next’: Moving out of Seattle’s occupied protest zone


By: Michael Spears, KIRO 7 News
Updated: June 16, 2020 - 5:50 AM
SEATTLE — As discussions continue about the future footprint of Seattle’s self-declared autonomous zone, one Capitol Hill neighbor whose home is inside the makeshift barricades said he and several others he knows are now choosing to stay elsewhere.
“I was protesting prior to the opening of CHOP or CHAZ but now I don’t know what I’m really supporting if I were to go to CHAZ or linger around, because it’s a different movement,” said the neighbor, who did not want to be publicly identified.
That neighbor said lax organization and a lack of cohesiveness from protesters on the ground about their collective demands has contributed to a disconnect with some residents inside the zone and has added to concerns about safety. He said he started sleeping at a friend’s home last week and is now staying at a hotel.

​

“I’m mainly scared because I know cops won’t come, I know fire trucks can’t come in. No government has even contacted any residents,” he said.
Security guards positioned at barricades have told KIRO 7 that they have not been stopping people from coming or going from the protest zone and said they planned to occupy the area near the east police precinct until reform demands are met by the city. New footprint options are now being discussed with city leadership that would keep some areas within the protest area for pedestrians only, while opening some access for first responders and businesses.
“Even if I want to move out, I can’t move out because I can’t even bring a moving truck there,” said the neighbor, who told us he knows a couple of friends living inside the protest zone who are also now sleeping elsewhere. “Hence why I moved to a hotel yesterday; I’ll be staying there for at least a week but I have no idea what’s next.”
On Sunday, property owner Ron Amundson shared concerns about limited police and fire responses. He said some business owners he’s spoken with are afraid to open and he’s heard of at least eight people living inside the protest zone, as of Sunday, who have decided to leave it.
"It needs leadership and organization and I think we can do it,” said Amundson, who like the neighbor we spoke with Monday, believes there needs to be steps taken quickly to address safety concerns but could not yet provide a timeline for any changes. “We don't want this to end badly."
“There are positives to the groups that are there,” said the neighbor. “But there’s a lot of antagonist groups lingering around.”
https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/no...ied-protest-zone/FRRALGZAIBB7DKW4DQMFT3ZRR4/?

 

[Tekate]

What???? Clarence Thomas is an idiot, any idiot knows that. Anita Hill calling..I don't want people on the Supreme Court who have the bent that Thomas does, he's anti woman, anti abortion and dumb, his believe in perpetual racism in America disgusts me.

Did you seriously say that all black people feel/think the same except maybe Clarence Thomas???!!!

How do you expect anyone take seriously the rest of your commentary (although I am sure some of it is valid) when you say things like that? I'm guessing you don't even see the problem.

 

[Tekate]

So what;s your take on what black people think? I'm sure we all need some pearls of wisdom. you impart so pearly!. if you venture out of twitter (a morass of morons) or reddit - as one guy put it: If you want to hate and be hated then Reddit's the place for you!.

So you read these and let's discuss.

Being Black In America: 'We Have A Place In This World Too'

As protests continue around the country in response to several high-profile deaths of African Americans in recent weeks, black people say they are frustrated, fearful and fatigued.

www.npr.org

Being Black in America: Christopher Span

'I ask of only one thing from those currently protesting. Keep organizing and keep protesting. Keep demanding equality and a seat at the table. Know that if you are not

www.news-gazette.com

Working While Black: Stories from black corporate America

We asked black employees what they they wanted their non-black coworkers, supervisors, and executives to know about inclusivity in the workplace.

fortune.com

I’m the mom of black sons and I fear for their safety every day

Including how to dismantle it. So that cases like Ahmaud Arbury do not happen again. Category : Life

www.mother.ly

When My Beautiful Black Boy Grows from Cute to a Threat

I am the mother of a brilliant eight-year-old boy. His name is Romeo and I love him very much. He has this bea...

www.allmomdoes.com

I would imagine black folks probably appreciate being told what & how they feel/think by white folks about as much as women love some good old fashioned man-splaining.

I’m no expert, but I’m pretty confident the goal is to hear the actual ‘experts’ on black life speak about how they feel & why, and what society can do to help effect positive change.

I really don’t know how/where ‘bitter white people with an obvious political agenda’ fits into the process.

 

[rainwood]

I find it puzzling that some of you are so determined to make CHOP (Capitol Hill Organized Protest) into something way bigger than it is. Even Fox, last night, had a reporter on site who said that there was one incident with that one guy and one burglary outside the CHOP zone but it was otherwise peaceful with no incidents. The Fox broadcaster (young and blond of course) blinked a couple of times, thanked him for his report, and then they ran that same video again. I had to laugh at how hard they're trying to push a narrative. Today, the Seattle Times reported police were able to move the barriers peacefully so that emergency and delivery vehicles could more easily get in. They'd been let in before, but now it would be easier. Again, no incident of any kind.

Is it annoying for some of the residents? Sure it is. Democracy can be messy. So why is it okay for them to take over the area in front of the police precinct as a form of protest? Because nothing else has worked. The Seattle PD has been under a federal consent decree for years because of their use of excessive force and racial bias in its policing. The City was in the process of asking to end the federal supervision because of progress they thought had been made. But when they saw the violent reaction of the SPD during the protests, the City of Seattle withdrew its application because it was clear there were still a lot of problems. It took the protests and CHOP to get the city to ban chokeholds. And discussions are ongoing with the city about other police practices and issues in a way that hasn't been true before. Sometimes it takes more drastic measures to be heard.

I doubt what I've said is going to change your minds or your need to get all worked up about CHOP so I'll leave you to your ongoing efforts to blow it out of proportion. Enjoy.

 

[the_mother_thing]

So you read these and let's discuss.

I really don’t need your Democrat-approved/sponsored reading list. I actually talk with - and listen to - my black family members, colleagues, and neighbors ... with whom I enjoy a wonderfully diverse, multi-cultural community with actual everyday black people.

You might consider stepping off your ivory soapbox, getting off the internet on occasion, and giving it a whirl ... or just keep boomer-splaining ‘how to adult’ lectures to millennials. I see that‘s working out swell!

 

[Volute]

I find it puzzling that some of you are so determined to make CHOP (Capitol Hill Organized Protest) into something way bigger than it is. Even Fox, last night, had a reporter on site who said that there was one incident with that one guy and one burglary outside the CHOP zone but it was otherwise peaceful with no incidents. The Fox broadcaster (young and blond of course) blinked a couple of times, thanked him for his report, and then they ran that same video again. I had to laugh at how hard they're trying to push a narrative. Today, the Seattle Times reported police were able to move the barriers peacefully so that emergency and delivery vehicles could more easily get in. They'd been let in before, but now it would be easier. Again, no incident of any kind.

Is it annoying for some of the residents? Sure it is. Democracy can be messy. So why is it okay for them to take over the area in front of the police precinct as a form of protest? Because nothing else has worked. The Seattle PD has been under a federal consent decree for years because of their use of excessive force and racial bias in its policing. The City was in the process of asking to end the federal supervision because of progress they thought had been made. But when they saw the violent reaction of the SPD during the protests, the City of Seattle withdrew its application because it was clear there were still a lot of problems. It took the protests and CHOP to get the city to ban chokeholds. And discussions are ongoing with the city about other police practices and issues in a way that hasn't been true before. Sometimes it takes more drastic measures to be heard.

I doubt what I've said is going to change your minds or your need to get all worked up about CHOP so I'll leave you to your ongoing efforts to blow it out of proportion. Enjoy.

Rainwood, I don't know if you've ever read "Nothing Is True and Everything Is Possible" by Peter Pomerantsev, or if you're familiar with Surkov, but I think it's key reading for our era. Elijah Schaffer's brand of reporting reminded me of this kind of media performance/trolling. He's only one specific example. My first reaction was to address the fearmongering and outrage with good-faith arguments, but I think on balance, I'd prefer to engage with those who express actual concern rather than those who want to whip up hysteria for entertainment. Anyway, I enjoy your thoughtful posts. Like you, I think that democracy is messy and complicated, and there are interesting lessons and topics of discussions here. It's certainly been illuminating for me to see the behavior of our local political actors as well as the extent of media manipulation. Speaking of which,

Schaffer, previously: https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-...s-did-not-die-from-his-injuries-idUSKBN23B2EZ.

Article on Surkov: https://www.theatlantic.com/interna...thor-putinism-russia-vladislav-surkov/382489/.