Thin to extremely thick girdle a dealbreaker?

[spetul]

Hi

I'm considering a Hearts and Arrows cushion.


^^ See the report above.

It is AGS-0 Ideal but I'm concerned about the girdle. Is "thin to extremely thick" a dealbreaker? That seems like quite a range but I can't tell if I should be concerned. The light profile on the ASET image looks good to me.

Hoping to buy the diamond today.

 

[mwilliamanderson]

I agree the image looks fine and it’s an AGS000 so light return should be fine. Unfortunately you’re paying for some carat weight you can’t see and I worry a little bit about symmetry issues that might result from such a big range on the girdle.

 

[diamondhoarder]

I own an ideal H&A square radiant which has a slightly thick to extremely thick girdle but the extremely thick part only applies to the corners of the diamond and my understanding is that this variation is required on some fancy cut shapes in order to achieve the H&A pattern. According to GIA the symmetry and polish on my stone is excellent so I've got no concerns there. The light performance on the diamond is outstanding, as I'm sure you will find with your H&A cushion.

 

[TODiamonds]

I wouldn't if it were an RB but the rules might be different for a cushion. I'm sure there's a cushion cut expert around here somewhere who can weigh in.

 

[sledge]

I haven't analyzed many cushions, but looking at the video I believe the variance is related to the shape and combination of using a round style H&A pattern on the cushion shape.

If you look at the pavilion view of the diamond I circled some blue areas. See how how the pavilion mains have to run short of the diamond edge and instead meet with the edges of the blue circles? I believe that is where your additional thickness occurs. On the crown/top of the diamond, it seems related to the facet that I circled in yellow.



Sorry, got trigger happy and posted before I was done, lol. Continuing on.

Anyhow, now look at a picture of the video that I did a screen cap on. I will post the one with and without the markups so that you can hopefully see how they relate back to what I am saying.





A final note, have you seen the BGD H&A style cushion against a well cut traditional cushion? It seems to be a love/hate thing is the reason I ask. I believe @SimoneDi owned one and didn't care for it because she said the H&A effect negated the beauty of a true cushion, and made it look too round. I haven't owned one so can't comment but will admit from videos I prefer chunky faceted cushions to this style.

Anyhow, food for thought.

Edited to add:
Changed the marked up version so red shows variance in the girdle thickness and the blue and yellow more properly relate back to the same colors on the cert.

 

[oldminer]

I see the wording of the girdle as "Thick to Very Thick". I don't see "Extremely Thick" on the report. It is very common for diamonds to have such variation and there won't be a problem due to the range of thickness listed. I prefer a bit overly thick than too thin and fragile.

 

[sledge]

I see the wording of the girdle as "Thick to Very Thick". I don't see "Extremely Thick" on the report. It is very common for diamonds to have such variation and there won't be a problem due to the range of thickness listed. I prefer a bit overly thick than too thin and fragile.

I'm not seeing thick to very thick. Maybe just a typo? I see thin to very thick.

But definitely no extremely thick.

 

[spetul]

@sledge @mwilliamanderson

Are there any cushions for the same price or less you'd recommend at the 1ct point? I've looked on the usual websites and liked this the most. I'm having a custom setting made so diamond can be from any vendor.

 

[mwilliamanderson]

I’m not seeing the price on the one you posted but I found this one at Whiteflash for just under 5K. It’s just under 1 ct but much higher in color.

I would ask for pictures and if they have any other brilliant cushions in stock.

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/cushion-cut-loose-diamond-4152540.htm?source=pricescope

 

[spetul]

@mwilliamanderson Apologies. Price is about $4500. That's just outside my budget. Can I ask why you prefer?

Would you prefer this? https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/cushion-cut-loose-diamond-4162059.htm

 

[lovedogs]

I’m not seeing the price on the one you posted but I found this one at Whiteflash for just under 5K.

I would ask for pictures and if they have any other brilliant cushions in stock.

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/cushion-cut-loose-diamond-4152540.htm?source=pricescope

That's a virtual selection stone, meaning op won't get any of the upgrade benefits that come from WF. If I wanted an H&A cushion, I'd go with BGD 100%

 

[spetul]

That's a virtual selection stone, meaning op won't get any of the upgrade benefits that come from WF. If I wanted an H&A cushion, I'd go with BGD 100%

Makes sense. The WF diamonds seem nice but unless you get one of the branded ones (which are $ for me), it's a tough buy.

 

[mwilliamanderson]

@mwilliamanderson Apologies. Price is about $4500. That's just outside my budget. Can I ask why you prefer?

Would you prefer this? https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/cushion-cut-loose-diamond-4162059.htm

I’d just prefer a G over a J unless you know she likes a warmer stone and I’d prefer Whiteflash’s upgrade policy, but as @lovedogs pointed out that stone won’t be included in the upgrade policy.

 

[spetul]

I’d just prefer a G over a J unless you know she likes a warmer stone and I’d prefer Whiteflash’s upgrade policy, but as @lovedogs pointed out that stone won’t be included in the upgrade policy.

From what I read on here, the J won't matter much with a cushion vs. the G. So much information..

 

[lovedogs]

From what I read on here, the J won't matter much with a cushion vs. the G. So much information..

I'm not sure that's accurate. A J will be more tinted than a G in all cuts. That doesn't mean the tint will bother you, biut it's worth keeping in mind.

 

[John P]

It is AGS-0 Ideal but I'm concerned about the girdle. Is "thin to extremely thick" a dealbreaker?

Girdles on cushions often range to ETK. However the one you have posted only ranges to VTK. Not a concern.

The light profile on the ASET image looks good to me.

That is the main proposition of the diamond you're considering.

 

[headlight]

From what I read on here, the J won't matter much with a cushion vs. the G. So much information..

I would disagree and I think you should spend a little more time gathering all your data to make sure there are no unexpected surprises when you receive your diamond (as in it appearing much more tinted than you expected it to be).

 

[spetul]

I would disagree and I think you should spend a little more time gathering all your data to make sure there are no unexpected surprises when you receive your diamond (as in it appearing much more tinted than you expected it to be).

That's fair enough. I don't mean to suggest there will be no difference. I've looked at this thread, which is filled with happy J buyers.

 

[headlight]

That's fair enough. I don't mean to suggest there will be no difference. I've looked at this thread, which is filled with happy J buyers.

The point is for YOU to be happy, which is all we care about here
As for the range of girdle thickness, I, too, have read that one should avoid a girdle that has variation for more than 2, but that could be just that "professional's" opinion. You've received solid input here from very knowledgeable and respected industry professionals who say not to worry in this scenario. Also, from what I've read, it seems that everything produced from BGD is a knockout so it sounds like this will be a beauty.

 

[sledge]

I really don't think you have anything to worry about with the girdle. BGD is a respected vendor that specializes in super ideal stones. They aren't using the girdle to hide weight, etc. They are cutting for beauty and I really think it's just a result of the type of cut and shape of stone that is creating the variance.

If you haven't read this yet, I'd encourage you to do so. It talks about the girdle, but it also talks about how they MEASURE their cushions, which is different than how most cushions are measured.

https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamond/brian-gavins-cushion-hearts-and-arrows

That said, I also think that BGD should have an opportunity to answer you concern. Have you asked them yet? Brian's wife, Lesley, was my point of contact when I purchased my wife's stone and I am sure she could quickly answer this for you.

Earlier, you asked what alternate stones I may recommend. To be clear, I wasn't suggesting or hinting you not buy the BGD stone. I just wanted to make sure you understood the BGD style cushion is a unique look.

That said, if I was looking for my wife, I'd be more interested in a super ideal with chunky facets which leads me to August Vintage.

https://www.augustvintageinc.net/pages/the-august-vintage-cushion


Slightly smaller, but better color and still within budget:
https://www.augustvintageinc.net/co...vs2-august-vintage-cushion-brilliant-74104061

https://www.augustvintageinc.net/co...2-august-vintage-cushion-brilliant-4270-0077a

https://www.augustvintageinc.net/co...vs1-august-vintage-cushion-brilliant-74129873


Nearly the same size, same color and VS2 clarity or better, and still within budget:
https://www.augustvintageinc.net/co...vs2-august-vintage-cushion-brilliant-74219560

https://www.augustvintageinc.net/co...vs2-august-vintage-cushion-brilliant-74219560

https://www.augustvintageinc.net/co...vs2-august-vintage-cushion-brilliant-74159403

https://www.augustvintageinc.net/co...vs2-august-vintage-cushion-brilliant-74114082


If you have a few hundred bucks wiggle room:
https://www.augustvintageinc.net/co...vs1-august-vintage-cushion-brilliant-74202341

https://www.augustvintageinc.net/co...vs2-august-vintage-cushion-brilliant-74143715


If you decide color doesn't bother you, want to up the size and stay within budget (while more visibly tinted, looks good compared to other M's):
https://www.augustvintageinc.net/co...vs2-august-vintage-cushion-brilliant-74193915

 

[sledge]

I just popped into the main forum and saw this thread at the top. Found it interesting after I listed all the AVC's above. Some real world photos and opinions.

https://www.pricescope.com/communit...uld-love-to-see-others-1ct-below-avcs.251623/