The Show your Paraiba or Copper bearing tourmaline thread

[missy]

Adding my 6.1ct purchase from the Bangkok Gem Fair Definitely on the greenish side.

LOVE LOVE LOVE!!! Beautiful.

 

[missy]

A dwarf compared to Burmesedaze's haul at 1.42 carats, but also got a green from the Bangkok fair. Beside it is a teal spinel.

Love both of these colors so much. Gorgeous.

 

[missy]

Adding my 6.1ct purchase from the Bangkok Gem Fair Definitely on the greenish side.

Greenilicous!!! Beautiful!

 

[missy]

Since I never heard anything about this belonging to a PS's, I feel like I have to share this. That 3ct paraiba was set into a beautiful pendant. I think it's so beautiful and unique. Definitely one of a kind.

What do you guys think?

@elle_71125 I am late to this thread and just seeing this gem. WOW! What do I think? I think I am in LOVE.
You have the most gorgeous gem collection. I love everything you share.

 

[Acinom]

@apacherose ‘s Paraiba suite:
A gorgeous camelia ring and flower studs by Yvonne Raley. More pics please!!!

 

[elle_71125]

@elle_71125 I am late to this thread and just seeing this gem. WOW! What do I think? I think I am in LOVE.
You have the most gorgeous gem collection. I love everything you share.

Well, it's not mine but it is magnificent!

 

[Sparkle_ruckle]

@apacherose ‘s Paraiba suite:
A gorgeous camelia ring and flower studs by Yvonne Raley. More pics please!!!

A suite fit for royalty! For the icing on your cake, a paraiba bangle/bracelet perhaps?

 

[Gem Queen]

Here is my Paraiba. It is, of course, prettier in real life. It is very large... I don't mind that!!

 

[Acinom]

Here is my Paraiba. It is, of course, prettier in real life. It is very large... I don't mind that!!

Woohoo! What a beauty! Where did you find her? She looks fabulous on you. Specs and a lot more pics please!

 

[chatoyancy]

Here is my Paraiba. It is, of course, prettier in real life. It is very large... I don't mind that!!

Good heavens! Your Paraiba is huge! I love the color and the setting. My friend just bought a Paraiba this weekend that same gorgeous color. Have you had your ring for a while or did you get is recently?

 

[chatoyancy]

Adding my 6.1ct purchase from the Bangkok Gem Fair Definitely on the greenish side.

Whoa!! Beautiful. What are your plans for this gorgeous Paraiba?

 

[chatoyancy]

A dwarf compared to Burmesedaze's haul at 1.42 carats, but also got a green from the Bangkok fair. Beside it is a teal spinel.

That is no dwarf! It’s gorgeous too! I also love be your special new. That is a lovely lovely teal. It looks like a nice size. I think I’m becoming a spinelaholic.

 

[Burmesedaze]

Whoa!! Beautiful. What are your plans for this gorgeous Paraiba?

It's going into a convertible ring/pendant. Like the one below bit with a single row of diamonds for the halo

 

[chatoyancy]

It's going into a convertible ring/pendant. Like the one below bit with a single row of diamonds for the halo

That is a great idea! I didn’t know those existed. It’s going to be so awesome!!

 

[Burmesedaze]

That is a great idea! I didn’t know those existed. It’s going to be so awesome!!

It solves the "should this go into a ring or a pendant? I need to find a matching stone for the other!" conundrum.

 

[elle_71125]

Here is my Paraiba. It is, of course, prettier in real life. It is very large... I don't mind that!!

There are too many emotions to properly express in words. Dang!!!

 

[missy]

Here is my Paraiba. It is, of course, prettier in real life. It is very large... I don't mind that!!

There are too many emotions to properly express in words. Dang!!!

haha yes that word works. Dang!

 

[Gem Queen]

Good heavens! Your Paraiba is huge! I love the color and the setting. My friend just bought a Paraiba this weekend that same gorgeous color. Have you had your ring for a while or did you get is recently?

I bought the stone last year and then I had the setting custom made. He did a great job. I am happy with it. It is a little larger than I expected, but I'll deal with it. I have the specs at home.

 

[apacherose]

@apacherose ‘s Paraiba suite:
A gorgeous camelia ring and flower studs by Yvonne Raley. More pics please!!!

Thank you, Acinom!!! Your paraiba by leon mege is my be all end all paraiba ring inspiration... would never have ever considered these gems if it weren't for your unbelievable collection!

 

[apacherose]

A suite fit for royalty! For the icing on your cake, a paraiba bangle/bracelet perhaps?

Thank you, sparkle!!! I would not turn down a bangle, lol!

 

[Acinom]

@lilmosun ‘s spectacular new pendants by Yvonne Raley! The Paraiba pendant has emeralds and hauynes as well. Stunning pairing Lilmosun!

 

[Gloria27]

Since I never heard anything about this belonging to a PS's, I feel like I have to share this. That 3ct paraiba was set into a beautiful pendant. I think it's so beautiful and unique. Definitely one of a kind.

What do you guys think?

It's amazing, it's like ice from the Arctic, those blues!

 

[neofita]

Buyer beware... labelling a stone ‘Paraiba’ does not ensure great colour and quality. Ensure that you have reliable papers from a reliable lab. And it’s always wise to consult knowledgeable PSers.
Read about @neofita ‘s experience in her thread: https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/mozambique-paraiba.239077/
After advice by various PSers, neofita decided against this particular stone.
Hope you will find your dreamstone @neofita!

Thank you @Acinom
I’ll get back to you since I probably found my stone. What do you think about it?
I’m not sure it’s neon...to be honest I’m not sure about “neon” does mean... Could you please explain to me? But I really like the color of this stone, since I not a big fan of the windex color.
Thank you in advance for your replies!

 

[Acinom]

Thank you @Acinom
I’ll get back to you since I probably found my stone. What do you think about it?
I’m not sure it’s neon...to be honest I’m not sure about “neon” does mean... Could you please explain to me? But I really like the color of this stone, since I not a big fan of the windex color.
Thank you in advance for your replies!

Hopefully the more knowledgeable stone experts will chime in as well. First of all: if you are thrilled about a stone, go for it! But make sure you buy what you think you are buying by verifying and ensure that you are not overpaying for a ‘label’. This stone does not have the blue or bluegreen look and glow, based on these pics. What are the specs? And are they selling this as Paraiba? What is the pricing? And do you absolutely love it? Have you seen it in person?
To my eyes it’s a pleasing colour, yet possibly rather dark in person and it’s heavily included (which would bother me for this colour).
The neon glow looks like a ‘fake’ and unreal colour and as if a light is shining from within.

 

[neofita]

Hopefully the more knowledgeable stone experts will chime in as well. First of all: if you are thrilled about a stone, go for it! But make sure you buy what you think you are buying by verifying and ensure that you are not overpaying for a ‘label’. This stone does not have the blue or bluegreen look and glow, based on these pics. What are the specs? And are they selling this as Paraiba? What is the pricing? And do you absolutely love it? Have you seen it in person?
To my eyes it’s a pleasing colour, yet possibly rather dark in person and it’s heavily included (which would bother me for this colour).
The neon glow looks like a ‘fake’ and unreal colour and as if a light is shining from within.

Thank you @Acinom for your reply and for quoting me. So, you don’t see any neon, don’t you? I agree... I’m still not sure about the neon meaning, but I cannot see anything that looks like neon...maybe for the dark color??
Yes, they are selling this stone as Paraiba from Brazil...actually the stone now is at GIA for the certificate. It’s about 1,70 ct, and I do love the color, it’s my favorite, I even decorated a room in my home with that color ! Unfortunately I didn’t see it in person. They told me the stone has a lot of fissures, but if those fissures don’t alterate the stability (which I don’t know) I don’t mind of these. I know it’s sound strange, but I don’t like clean (glass like) stone...but I know it’s a very personal opinion. They asked 1200$ per carat...over priced???

 

[Acinom]

@leslie1956 sports a stunning marquise Paraiba ring from Yvonne Raley with Paraiba and hauynite melee. We need more pics of your beautiful ring @leslie1956 !!

 

[leslie1956]

I’ll see what I can do, Acinom I’m working on increasing my Paraiba collection as finances permit. Blues and greens are my favorite gem colors followed by purple and the deeper, rosier shades of pink.

Thanks for the nice comments on the ring, too, I appreciate your expertise!

 

[Acinom]

Glowing Paraiba sidestones for @mochiko42 in a setting by Yvonne Raley.
And... what are her plans with the loose round Paraiba?

 

[Barrett]

Thank you @Acinom for your reply and for quoting me. So, you don’t see any neon, don’t you? I agree... I’m still not sure about the neon meaning, but I cannot see anything that looks like neon...maybe for the dark color??
Yes, they are selling this stone as Paraiba from Brazil...actually the stone now is at GIA for the certificate. It’s about 1,70 ct, and I do love the color, it’s my favorite, I even decorated a room in my home with that color ! Unfortunately I didn’t see it in person. They told me the stone has a lot of fissures, but if those fissures don’t alterate the stability (which I don’t know) I don’t mind of these. I know it’s sound strange, but I don’t like clean (glass like) stone...but I know it’s a very personal opinion. They asked 1200$ per carat...over priced???

Miss B, whom I greatly admire and respect, over on the "other" website says it best when commenting on the term "neon"....
"Let me start by saying I think the definition "neon" is the wrong adjective.
'Vivid" would be more accurate. "

Then let me start by adding a few snippets of info I find appropriate to the question of what makes any gemstone, such as Paraiba tourmaline, have that neon/glow, that so many see.

"Both iron as Fe2+ (Faye et al., 1968; Mattson and Rossman, 1987) and copper as Cu2+ (Fritsch et al., 1990; Laurs et al., 200 can impart greenish blue coloration to gem tourmaline. The required absorption near 700 nm is associated with metal ions in distorted octahedral environments (Burns, 1993). Thus, whether coloration is due to Fe and/or Cu cannot reliably be distinguished by looking at a sample. Gems & Gemology(2009)SPECTRAL DIFFERENTIATION BETWEEN COPPER AND IRON COLORANTS IN GEM TOURMALINES

Then I will add some info that I consider "food for thought", from someone who loves cuprians as much as I used to.....
Bruce Fry says...."It is in the lack of extinction of the light that produces the same saturated color in the cuprian tourmaline verses iron tourmaline, that makes the difference. The added reflection of light from the cuprian tourmaline is interpreted by the eye/brain as a generation of light (neon) look. I don't think anyone has claimed that iron can match copper in this effect as long as there is enough copper and it is not desaturated by other chromophores."

That was back in 2009 when Bruce made the above comment
I think what he said can also apply to something like the early Mahenge spinels that had that soft glowy look to them....didn't they had those tiny bubble-like inclusions that scattered the light and helped kill any extinction the gem may have had? The older PS members recall those spinel, I am sure. May have been silky inclusions, but I think it was tiny bubble looking thing-a-ma-jigs that did it.
Anyways, bear with me as I snatch and grab info I find pertinent....
In 2016 he made this comment,
"Now I think that the eye-mind has preset standards for the ratio of how much light, coming from an object that is just absorbing light, like a gemstone and an object that is generating light, like a neon light and ambient light levels. When the eye-mind encounters an exceptional situation like the light coming from a high quality cuprian tourmaline, the eye-mind produces the visual sensation of a glow, in order for it to satisfy its internal standard."

Now continuing on.... classycarat, from the same "other" website I spoke of above, also has a little theory I wanted to add.(in the same thread as Bruce from 2016)
"Which leads to a thought I have held for years that the 'glow' may be because the cuprians have a clearer, cleaner tone and hue than similar Fe stones. The Cu stones don't seem to be fettered by gray casts and often no odd dichroic tones that seem to plague Fe stones. "



Regarding "glow/neon" in other stones, Rick Martin quotes a fellow South Dakotian(where I live now) Ron Ringsrund on the glow/neon associated with fine Colombian emeralds..
"I've just been reading emerald dealer/author Ronald Ringsrud's book "Emeralds: A Passionate Guide," and he seems to think that low-iron Colombian emerald's green "becomes even more vibrant" due to the red daylight fluorescence. He writes that "With Colombian emeralds, the red fluorescence is not obvious, but perceived as a hidden charm. Ringsrud attributes the special "glow" of some Colombian emeralds to the "gota de aceite" effect, caused by "growth irregularities [that] bend and soften the light." He writes that internally-reflected light "disperses through the stone more widely, thanks to these inclusions and the textures they create." He equates such internal structures with the light-dispersing inclusions in Kashmir sapphire"
The glow he speaks of in emerald only occurs in "1 out of every 1000"
That goes back to my point about the early Mahenge spinels and the soft "glow" they had, even if they were not graded as "vivid". This seems somewhat evident when one compares the crisp, clean nature of the pink Tajik spinels. Tajikistan spinels typically yielded that crisp/crystalline-like/with extinction stones, where as, the early reddish Mahenges, which had more microscopic inclusions present, would equal more of a soft/glowy/little extinction stone

Then Conny Forsberg goes on to say in the same posting.....
"Until disproven my guess is that chromium and/or vanadium, combined with lack of iron, is affecting beryl the same way as copper sometimes does to tourmaline giving it hues and saturations that glow."

I notice in many of the pictures of the Paraibas on this thread, the gems seem to be fairly included, which might explain thw glow being seen by so many. Most of the stones I see on here don't seem to have a true "vivid" color and/or would grade out as a "vivid" stone at the gem lab. Some do look to have that vivid grade, but it can't be ascertained from pictures reliably. I just know from statistics and experience it's more than likely not to be a "vivid".

I still stick with the facts and that is.....
If you don't have a vivid color Paraiba, then by default, you can't have a Paraiba that is truly a chromophore based neon color.
Regardless of what you may think you see....glow...neon..etc....the fact is, if you don't have a vivid-grade color in your stone, then by definition, you don't have a true neon glow in the stone.

That is.....unless some other factor is at play, ya know. You may have a glow that is unmistakably present.....
It could possibly be the scattering of light due to silk or some other inclusions or growth irregularities (mahenge spinel/kashmir sapphire/sweet home rhodochrosite/Colombian emeralds)or maybe from some hidden component in the copper and Manganese chromophore that remains yet to be discovered, similar to the way Burmese rubies fluoresce(glow) with Chromium and their lack of Iron.

One of my favorite descriptions for what a truly neon/glowing Paraiba tourmaline is, was said years ago by TL, .....it was something along the lines of the stone being in a darkened room, yet looking like it has a battery making it glow from the inside out.

In my opinion, what most folks think they see as glow/neon, is in actuality "the eye-mind producing the visual sensation of a glow, in order for it to satisfy its internal standard"
Paraibas don't have the "glow" when in the rough. This is a commonly quoted fact from many of the experts on cuprians.
It's only after they are cut and light is allowed to enter the stone, bounce around, and head back towards the eye, that one then perceives a "glow/neon" look.
I believe most people who dabble with Paraiba these days, especially outside the more educated and informed PS community members, possibly confuse what they see as the "glow/neon", as just simple visible light doing what it does and "lighting" up the gemstone.
I also believe many are mistaking turquoise and cyan as automatic "neon/glowing" colors in general.

To me turquoise just looks neon to begin with, regardless of where it's at, what material it's coloring, etc.
If it's just a simple piece of construction paper even, with a turquoise/cyan color on it, it always looks brighter and more neonish-like to me, especially when held side by side to just a regular blue or green color. I think many folks see glow/neon in turquoise regardless of whether it truly has "it". Look at all the iron colored tourmalines from Afghanistan being sold as "paraiba-like".

It all comes down to perception being reality. What most see as glowing/neon, is actually the effect of light being scattered from the multiple inclusions and flaws present in their stones, and/or combined with the mind/eyes assumption that turquoise/cyan is an automatic neon looking hue to begin with.
The real neon and glow of a Paraiba tourmaline, can truly only come from a vivid colored stone.
What is the percentage of vivid colored gems out there or that are ever found?
It's less than 1% of any gem species, I think? Maybe it's higher for cuprians, but nonetheless, it's still extremely rare.
You can't judge a Paraiba tourmaline until you have seen in person, or actually held a vivid grade stone. Most have never done so, but I do know many of the old school PS'ers on here have seen at least one in their life, and know exactly what I am talking about.

I hastily threw together this post so please excuse the randomness and any grammatical errors I missed...

 

[neofita]

Miss B, whom I greatly admire and respect, over on the "other" website says it best when commenting on the term "neon"....
"Let me start by saying I think the definition "neon" is the wrong adjective.
'Vivid" would be more accurate. "

Then let me start by adding a few snippets of info I find appropriate to the question of what makes any gemstone, such as Paraiba tourmaline, have that neon/glow, that so many see.

"Both iron as Fe2+ (Faye et al., 1968; Mattson and Rossman, 1987) and copper as Cu2+ (Fritsch et al., 1990; Laurs et al., 200 can impart greenish blue coloration to gem tourmaline. The required absorption near 700 nm is associated with metal ions in distorted octahedral environments (Burns, 1993). Thus, whether coloration is due to Fe and/or Cu cannot reliably be distinguished by looking at a sample. Gems & Gemology(2009)SPECTRAL DIFFERENTIATION BETWEEN COPPER AND IRON COLORANTS IN GEM TOURMALINES

Then I will add some info that I consider "food for thought", from someone who loves cuprians as much as I used to.....
Bruce Fry says...."It is in the lack of extinction of the light that produces the same saturated color in the cuprian tourmaline verses iron tourmaline, that makes the difference. The added reflection of light from the cuprian tourmaline is interpreted by the eye/brain as a generation of light (neon) look. I don't think anyone has claimed that iron can match copper in this effect as long as there is enough copper and it is not desaturated by other chromophores."

That was back in 2009 when Bruce made the above comment
I think what he said can also apply to something like the early Mahenge spinels that had that soft glowy look to them....didn't they had those tiny bubble-like inclusions that scattered the light and helped kill any extinction the gem may have had? The older PS members recall those spinel, I am sure. May have been silky inclusions, but I think it was tiny bubble looking thing-a-ma-jigs that did it.
Anyways, bear with me as I snatch and grab info I find pertinent....
In 2016 he made this comment,
"Now I think that the eye-mind has preset standards for the ratio of how much light, coming from an object that is just absorbing light, like a gemstone and an object that is generating light, like a neon light and ambient light levels. When the eye-mind encounters an exceptional situation like the light coming from a high quality cuprian tourmaline, the eye-mind produces the visual sensation of a glow, in order for it to satisfy its internal standard."

Now continuing on.... classycarat, from the same "other" website I spoke of above, also has a little theory I wanted to add.(in the same thread as Bruce from 2016)
"Which leads to a thought I have held for years that the 'glow' may be because the cuprians have a clearer, cleaner tone and hue than similar Fe stones. The Cu stones don't seem to be fettered by gray casts and often no odd dichroic tones that seem to plague Fe stones. "



Regarding "glow/neon" in other stones, Rick Martin quotes a fellow South Dakotian(where I live now) Ron Ringsrund on the glow/neon associated with fine Colombian emeralds..
"I've just been reading emerald dealer/author Ronald Ringsrud's book "Emeralds: A Passionate Guide," and he seems to think that low-iron Colombian emerald's green "becomes even more vibrant" due to the red daylight fluorescence. He writes that "With Colombian emeralds, the red fluorescence is not obvious, but perceived as a hidden charm. Ringsrud attributes the special "glow" of some Colombian emeralds to the "gota de aceite" effect, caused by "growth irregularities [that] bend and soften the light." He writes that internally-reflected light "disperses through the stone more widely, thanks to these inclusions and the textures they create." He equates such internal structures with the light-dispersing inclusions in Kashmir sapphire"
The glow he speaks of in emerald only occurs in "1 out of every 1000"
That goes back to my point about the early Mahenge spinels and the soft "glow" they had, even if they were not graded as "vivid". This seems somewhat evident when one compares the crisp, clean nature of the pink Tajik spinels. Tajikistan spinels typically yielded that crisp/crystalline-like/with extinction stones, where as, the early reddish Mahenges, which had more microscopic inclusions present, would equal more of a soft/glowy/little extinction stone

Then Conny Forsberg goes on to say in the same posting.....
"Until disproven my guess is that chromium and/or vanadium, combined with lack of iron, is affecting beryl the same way as copper sometimes does to tourmaline giving it hues and saturations that glow."

I notice in many of the pictures of the Paraibas on this thread, the gems seem to be fairly included, which might explain thw glow being seen by so many. Most of the stones I see on here don't seem to have a true "vivid" color and/or would grade out as a "vivid" stone at the gem lab. Some do look to have that vivid grade, but it can't be ascertained from pictures reliably. I just know from statistics and experience it's more than likely not to be a "vivid".

I still stick with the facts and that is.....
If you don't have a vivid color Paraiba, then by default, you can't have a Paraiba that is truly a chromophore based neon color.
Regardless of what you may think you see....glow...neon..etc....the fact is, if you don't have a vivid-grade color in your stone, then by definition, you don't have a true neon glow in the stone.

That is.....unless some other factor is at play, ya know. You may have a glow that is unmistakably present.....
It could possibly be the scattering of light due to silk or some other inclusions or growth irregularities (mahenge spinel/kashmir sapphire/sweet home rhodochrosite/Colombian emeralds)or maybe from some hidden component in the copper and Manganese chromophore that remains yet to be discovered, similar to the way Burmese rubies fluoresce(glow) with Chromium and their lack of Iron.

One of my favorite descriptions for what a truly neon/glowing Paraiba tourmaline is, was said years ago by TL, .....it was something along the lines of the stone being in a darkened room, yet looking like it has a battery making it glow from the inside out.

In my opinion, what most folks think they see as glow/neon, is in actuality "the eye-mind producing the visual sensation of a glow, in order for it to satisfy its internal standard"
Paraibas don't have the "glow" when in the rough. This is a commonly quoted fact from many of the experts on cuprians.
It's only after they are cut and light is allowed to enter the stone, bounce around, and head back towards the eye, that one then perceives a "glow/neon" look.
I believe most people who dabble with Paraiba these days, especially outside the more educated and informed PS community members, possibly confuse what they see as the "glow/neon", as just simple visible light doing what it does and "lighting" up the gemstone.
I also believe many are mistaking turquoise and cyan as automatic "neon/glowing" colors in general.

To me turquoise just looks neon to begin with, regardless of where it's at, what material it's coloring, etc.
If it's just a simple piece of construction paper even, with a turquoise/cyan color on it, it always looks brighter and more neonish-like to me, especially when held side by side to just a regular blue or green color. I think many folks see glow/neon in turquoise regardless of whether it truly has "it". Look at all the iron colored tourmalines from Afghanistan being sold as "paraiba-like".

It all comes down to perception being reality. What most see as glowing/neon, is actually the effect of light being scattered from the multiple inclusions and flaws present in their stones, and/or combined with the mind/eyes assumption that turquoise/cyan is an automatic neon looking hue to begin with.
The real neon and glow of a Paraiba tourmaline, can truly only come from a vivid colored stone.
What is the percentage of vivid colored gems out there or that are ever found?
It's less than 1% of any gem species, I think? Maybe it's higher for cuprians, but nonetheless, it's still extremely rare.
You can't judge a Paraiba tourmaline until you have seen in person, or actually held a vivid grade stone. Most have never done so, but I do know many of the old school PS'ers on here have seen at least one in their life, and know exactly what I am talking about.

I hastily threw together this post so please excuse the randomness and any grammatical errors I missed...

Thank you so much @Barrett !!! This is the reply I was looking for! I think all the new PS’ers (like me) would appreciate it!