The Olympic Games Thread...

[oobiecoo]

Date: 8/13/2008 9:28:38 AM
Author: IndyGirl22
I really don''t think the judging was unfair...if you watch ANY sport where judging is set up like in gymnastics, the losing (or lower scoring) team/fans will always have something to say about biased judging. That happens in every sport with referees, too. The judges are from several different countries, and I remember the announcers saying they are different in the prelims than the finals, so that could explain why it seems very different. The announcers also admitted the judges were harsh on other gymnasts besides the US. I think both our mens & womens teams made the best out of an adverse situation and should be proud. Many of the deductions we received were obvious (stepping out, falling on a pass, falling on the beam), so it wasn''t as subjective as in other events. Our women seemed to have problems staying in bounds this year...I wonder if that''s all mental.

As for teams not being excited about getting silver, it''s difficult to be happy with 2nd place when you knew 1st was within your realm of potential; i.e. womens team was given a huge opening to take gold by China''s mistakes but couldn''t capitalize on it. If you place above your expectations, i.e. mens team, then you are obviously more excited. Just think if MP won silver...no excitement would be had there. The reason why the announcers were saying such bad things about Japan was that they were supposed to be so dominant as defending champions and had been amazing in the prelims, but just performed well in the finals. Granted, their ''well'' is another team''s ''amazing,'' but it''s all about expectations.

I don''t think slo-mo in general is a bad idea, I just think they should limit it somehow; maybe just one replay per performance perhaps. That would increase accuracy without cutting into the sport too much. I did see that the coaches were placing some blame for Alicia''s fall on the scoring time gap, but I think that''s making excuses since everyone had to deal with it. Shawn did AMAZING on the beam!

miraclesrule - I agree...I am posting more of my opinion about the lip-syncing ''scandal,'' China gymnastics, etc. in the Around the World thread. However, I did want to add that I think Bela''s accusations are RIDICULOUS - not because they are untrue, but because they are premature and lacking proof. I''m obviously not sure of the ages of the women, but if they have the documents to prove it & no one can produce real evidence otherwise, why throw out such statements to tarnish the Olympics? Bela himself says that he doesn''t think an age limit should even exist, and then makes age assumptions based on a woman''s teeth? I''m sure if some concrete evidence existed, then the IOC would''ve been all over it. I have several cousins in Vietnam who are around 15-17 and they look exactly like those gymnasts...very small and young-looking compared to girls of comparable ages in Western(ized) countries.

MP was awesome, as usual. Our relay team was so far ahead of ANYONE it was astonishing. He did seem upset at his time in the 200m fly...shows how competitive he really is!

Did anyone watch synch. diving? That stuff just baffles me! Several of the divers are from Indiana and Wenbo Chen was at Purdue for a bit, so I was excited to see so many ties in Beijing!

There was at least one chinese gymnast who''s age was in question because there were previous documents stating she was a younger age. So I don''t think Bela''s accusations were far-fetched.

The synch. diving is really amazing! I watched it and thought "Hey, Im graceful! I should have done that!"... and then i realized... I''m afraid of diving lol

Was anyone else just a bit annoyed when Michael Phelps began chatting with his teammate during the national anthem?

 

[Anna0499]

Date: 8/13/2008 10:00:18 AM
Author: oobiecoo

There was at least one chinese gymnast who's age was in question because there were previous documents stating she was a younger age. So I don't think Bela's accusations were far-fetched.

The synch. diving is really amazing! I watched it and thought 'Hey, Im graceful! I should have done that!'... and then i realized... I'm afraid of diving lol

Was anyone else just a bit annoyed when Michael Phelps began chatting with his teammate during the national anthem?

The NYT reported that an "online investigation" showed the girls may be under 16 years old...I think we all know about things you read online... They only have to turn 16 this year, so a 15 year old who hasn't had her birthday would be eligible. I have no problem with banning/sanctioning any team that breaks the rules, I just don't think such accusations should be thrown out without concrete proof because it really casts negative doubts upon the sport and its athletes prematurely. I also didn't care for his comment about the women being "half-people." No class.

ETA: Did anyone else notice the huge difference between the American & Chinese floor routines in terms of music, dance, etc.?

 

[MonkeyPie]

I think it''s kind of annoying how much of a big deal is made out of Michael Phelps. (I''d say MP, but that''s me! Hah!) I know he''s good and he''s won a lot of gold but hey...he isn''t the only American over there :/

I really liked the syncronized diving last night. Those Chinese, omg. My co-worker said they are like robots. Lol.

 

[Anna0499]

Date: 8/13/2008 10:44:44 AM
Author: MonkeyPie
I think it''s kind of annoying how much of a big deal is made out of Michael Phelps. (I''d say MP, but that''s me! Hah!) I know he''s good and he''s won a lot of gold but hey...he isn''t the only American over there :/

I really liked the syncronized diving last night. Those Chinese, omg. My co-worker said they are like robots. Lol.

LOL! They really did look like twins or a mirror was next to one of them. They were ridiculously precise in their execution.

I think MP is such a big deal (both Phelps & you MonkeyPie

) because it will be the last time anyone will have the chance to swim and medal in as many events, so his record will likely stand if he breaks it. They are trimming down a lot of events next time and it will be very difficult, if not impossible, for one athlete to be so dominant. I love how Lezak was the true hero of the relay...the veteran deserved his time in the spotlight. I also adore Coughlin...she was so cute on the medal stand.

 

[allycat0303]

Yeah, I don''t like Bela''s comments either. I understand there is doubt. It is quite possible that they are under 16, BUT they have passports, it''s done, won''t be changed. I think that continuously coming back on it over, and over again diminishes what these girls HAVE accomplished. We are supposed to believe in *innocent before proven guilty*.

As a former figure skater, I think the minimum age thing is a joke. I don''t think that rule should exist (it does in figure skating too). Intellectually, I understand they are trying to prevent children being abused. But I think that the best althletes in the world should represent their country. Period. Last year, the US had the top two finishers in figure skating win the national championships, and they weren''t allowed to compete at the world championships because they were too young. Ridiculous. They are most likely the best in the world, but can''t compete because they are too young.

I had to say that. As for Alicia,(in gymnastics) my heart bled for her. I was in tears, because the sadness she must feel is overwhelming. Honestly, when Nastia stepped out of bounds I was actually happy, because I thought, "ok, now Alicia won''t feel that she was solely responsible for not winning the gold medal". It''s a huge accomplishement, but I know they think of this as a major failure. Had they done really well and lost, it would have been fine, but they weren''t at their best, which is unfortunate.

 

[canuk-gal]

HI:

Are they showing the podium/medal video''s anywhere? I can replay the events, but not the awarding of the medals.......please help

cheers--Sharon

 

[blondebunny]

IndyGirl, they interview him later and asked why he seemed mad or what not, and it was because as soon as he got in the water his goggles filled up with water for the entire swim, so pretty much he is awesome rather or not he can see or not.. haha

 

[miraclesrule]

Oh man, it was painful to watch Alicia. I felt so bad for her. The Olympics is such a huge amount of pressure and once she missed that beam, she couldn''t shake it.

allycat: I felt the same way with Natsia went out. My heart sank because I knew the Chinese were going to tear us up on floor, but I idn''t want Alicia to bear the weight of feeling like she let the entire team down. I was

. I usually don''t let these types of things get to me, but it did last night. I didn''t want to watch her interview so I turned off the T.V. But I missed the diving... Boo....

I was also stunned after I heard Bela''s comments. It was sensationlism at best and I think he was extremely out of line. Alluding the forging of passports on National T.V. without any proof.

 

[Delster]

Date: 8/13/2008 11:59:20 AM
Author: blondebunny
IndyGirl, they interview him later and asked why he seemed mad or what not, and it was because as soon as he got in the water his goggles filled up with water for the entire swim, so pretty much he is awesome rather or not he can see or not.. haha

We had the same thing happen an Irish swimmer, only she stopped mid race to fix hers

She said she couldn't complete her turns without being able to see. Problem there apparently wasn't with the goggles though, it was with the hat the Irish team provided her. It was too big and slipped off when she dived in, taking the goggles with it.

Ireland's having a disappointing Olympics so far, boxing aside perhaps! But I think most hopes here are pinned on our track and field athletes...

 

[Anna0499]

Date: 8/13/2008 11:59:20 AM
Author: blondebunny
IndyGirl, they interview him later and asked why he seemed mad or what not, and it was because as soon as he got in the water his goggles filled up with water for the entire swim, so pretty much he is awesome rather or not he can see or not.. haha

Yeah, I read that he couldn't even see for turns...how amazing! I know he wanted to be below 1:52 and probably would've been if not for the goggles...the others were right on top of him too!

 

[FrekeChild]

My heart hurt for Alicia. The disappointment, shock and anger on her face when she landed on the floor is something I''ve experienced myself, and now I know what my face looked like. Nastia is absolutely incredible to watch-very elegant and she moves with such grace-her floor routine''s dance moves actually look like dance moves instead of a lot of the mechanical robot dancing that seems to have taken over the sport. I miss the dancing that the Russians and Romanians used to put out-it was beautiful to watch.

I love to watch Shawn too. She''s such a little firecracker. I can''t believe that I''m a full 5 inches taller than her. That is amazing to me.

Bela is passionate about what he does. He''s been doing this for a very long time and he knows it all very well. I happen to agree with what he says. He thinks the rule is ridiculous, but that it does exist, so it should be followed. I don''t see a problem with that. Bela has a lot of respect from around the world, and he''s just saying what everyone else is thinking, or saying behind closed doors. But no one can prove anything via a paper trail.

 

[ucdcows]

Date: 8/13/2008 11:26:14 AM
Author: canuk-gal
HI:

Are they showing the podium/medal video''s anywhere? I can replay the events, but not the awarding of the medals.......please help

cheers--Sharon

Here it is!

Go to this page....and its in the video box on the left of the article ("US women take silver")

http://www.nbcolympics.com/gymnastics/news/newsid=208372.html#hearts+broken+us+moves+aa

I think the silver medal is still a great accomplishment regardless of whether they were favored for the gold or not...as with any other sport competition, it really depends on how well the athletes perform that day. And yesterday the Chinese team outperformed the American team. Can''t wait for the all around and the event finals. I''m really looking foward to the bars and beam events.

 

[icekid]

awwww I just caught some of the girls'' final on DVR tonight, and my heart is totally broken for Alicia Sacramone. I''ve been a fan of hers for a while and she seems like such a sweet girl, such a huge supporter of her teammates. I can''t even imagine the disappointment she feels... not to mention Chelsie Memmel''s struggle w/ injuries and coming back to gymnastics. Must be so painful to get hurt at the last minute!

And for what it''s worth, the Chinese papers have been reporting on 3 or 4 of the Chinese girls being too young to compete. So it''s not like Bela Karolyi was just coming up with this all on his own. Given the Chinese''s government''s training methods and focus on these Olympics at the expense of all else, I''d probably bet money that the girls are not of age. And rules are rules; they apply to everyone. Sure, it''s harder to spin and tumble when you grow hips and boobs! But that applies to the other teams as well. I kind of happen to think it''s a heck of a lot more impressive when you''re still able to perform with an adult body. I don''t know- something about children in the Olympics feels off to me.

re: Judging..... ahhhh being a figure skater, I know about judging issues all too well. Yeah, I do think they were biased against the Americans. Just one example- but Shawn Johnson on the beam? She was incredible with nary a bobble... but um, she scored the same at the Chinese girls who nearly fell 5 times. Whaaat?? It just doesn''t compute, for me. You never know what kinds of deals go on between countries and behind closed doors with this kind of subjective judging.

Regardless, I''m proud of our talented group of gymnasts for hanging in there. I can''t even imagine the pressure they feel...

 

[diamondfan]

Ice, I agree with you.

Rules apply to all. And I think seriously in all my years of seeing gymnastics I have NEVER seen a girl do as well on beam as Shaun Johnson...MAYBE Nadia or Olga but just like in skating the standards and degrees of difficulty are SO different now. She did a triple jump thing, one after the other and landed without one bobble and her feet in perfect position. Many of the degrees of difficulty seemed subjective and it does seem a bit of a lean to the Chinese, not that they were not excellent, but fair is fair. And to be real, that whole lip sync thing was pretty offensive to me....but I am so far enjoying the swimming and the gymnastics and cannot wait for track and field.

 

[Anna0499]

Yay for Lezak finally winning an individual! Most of the guys are struggling in the AA, but hopefully one of our guys will medal...Horton looks pretty solid & silver & bronze seem to be up for grabs. I was kind of disappointed in the womens 4x2, but the Aussies were crazy fast and at least we medaled.

ETA re: judging...I guess I'm still in the optimistic group that tries to believe that judges are generally fair & athletes want to win on merit. That may be naive, but focusing on possible judging bias when I'm not a gymnastics expert to know the difference between a 10 performance and a 9.8 performance just takes some enjoyment out of the Games for me. The US scored better than China on the beam even after Alicia's unfortunate spill & subsequent missed combination backflip, thanks to Shawn's amazing performance. I hope our girls do well tomorrow.

 

[vita*dolce]

i love watching gymnastics!! it was so hard to watch alicia, she just looked like she was fighting back tears for the rest of the night!! poor girl, i can''t imagine how tough it must be to be in her shoes right now!!

 

[Anna0499]

Date: 8/14/2008 12:53:55 AM
Author: vita*dolce
i love watching gymnastics!! it was so hard to watch alicia, she just looked like she was fighting back tears for the rest of the night!! poor girl, i can't imagine how tough it must be to be in her shoes right now!!

Definitely! I think she may be competing in the AA tonight (I think that's what they said after the team final), so I think she definitely has a chance at "redemption." If not, I'm sure she'll be competing in the specialty events, and should do well there. It was so odd to watch the AA last night because gymnasts were so subdued because they were competing alone and not on a team. I could really tell Horton loves the team atmosphere.

Did you guys see Hiroyuki Tomita fall off the rings?! As soon as the announcers were talking about Yang Wei not falling for the rest of the competition because he just had rings, floor, and parallel bars left I knew someone would fall on one of those! It was so scary and I felt so bad for him, like I do any athlete that falls that badly in the Games. Sasha did amazing on the horse again...I will be shocked if he doesn't take gold in it in a couple days.

Watching basketball now...

 

[Pandora II]

Come on guys, I''m third in the sweepstake right now, I need some serious USA gold medal action!

 

[oobiecoo]

Anyone else watching women's gymnastics finals right now? Nastia is taking the lead... yay!!! The judges need to get with the program and start being consistent in their deductions on the floor portion.

ETA: Pavlova's floor routine was beautiful as well! I don't know her ranking but I hope she's high up there.

 

[diamondfan]

Nastia is lovely to watch. Very balletic. I think some of the scores have been unfair. If something is a deduction it needs to apply to all the participants. It seems they do not notice the missteps and wobbles most of the time except for the Americans.

I think Nastia is pretty in motion. I used to think that as with ice skating, certain body lines look great. I always thought Nancy Kerrigan and Kristy Yamaguchi looked good but Tonya Harding did not have the grace and fluidity. It is not just about the technical skill but the artistry and grace too.

And I am NOT sick of Phelps, but was glad that Lochte one. Personally I think Aaron Piersol is a cutie and a great swimmer, and the Americans are great swimmers, no two ways about it.

I would be thrilled for Luikin to get gold and Johnson to get the silver! That would be great. Loved seeing Mary Lou Retton in the stands, she looks great!

When does track and field start??

 

[oobiecoo]

Go USA!!!!! Nastia and Shaun did AWESOME!

 

[diamondfan]

But for a twist of fate, Nastia would have been competing for Russia!

I have to saw I am glad that the Americans girls did so well in the all around. The men yesterday did not, and I was surprised because they were very strong in the team competition considering they did not have the Hamm brothers.

Nastia looked SOOO elegant on the floor exercise. Shaun did wonderfully too, but Nastia was just like watching a ballerina.

 

[Anna0499]

Yay for Lochte! I love seeing him win, especially because he is always overshadowed by Phelps. I think MP is amazing, though, and I hope he runs the table. The relay will be the toughest test ahead because he has to rely on 3 other guys.

I''m really happy the US went 1-2. Gymnastics is such a subjective sport, and I think that Shawn''s shorter, more muscular build worked against her at these Olympics. Some judges just don''t like that look and prefer Nastia''s more slender look...which, even though she is only 5''3", she looks like a giant next to Shawn. Shawn had been beating Nastia all year, so I''m happy Nastia took gold. I''m also glad they won because if they had not I know it would''ve meant news articles written up about some other gymnast winning because of alleged favortism/bias and that''s not good for the Olympics.

The Russian gymnast Ksenia was so awesome...I think she''ll be great next time and it was good to see that Russia and Romania are clawing their way back to gymastic greatness.

Really excited to watch individual event finals in the coming days...hopefully we can snag some more medals there.

DF - There''s some track & field on today, but it goes on for over a week. I think it''s funny there are multiple a "racewalk" events.

 

[Delster]

Date: 8/15/2008 9:07:53 AM
Author: IndyGirl22
DF - There''s some track & field on today, but it goes on for over a week. I think it''s funny there are multiple a ''racewalk'' events.

Woohoo, there sure is, and how proud is Ireland right now of Róisín McGettigan???

 

[Anna0499]

Yay for Phelps & Dara...Phelps'' win looked a bit fishy, but I guess the "touchpads don''t lie." I wish they would show us better replays, though.

 

[diamondfan]

I went to high school with Brad Torres, he looks like his sis! Yah, she was so nice to ask them to wait for the other swimmer. Classy.

A win is a win, 1/100th of a second is sooooo close but he touched the pad first and the review panel (FINA?) said they would not accept the complaint paperwork from Cavic''s coach because they reviewed it and there was no reason to proceed...he won, close, by a hair, but still...it counts. I am sure MP is relieved, no world record there but hey, still just incredible.

 

[FrekeChild]

Yeah. I''m with Phelps'' mom. She looked like she almost passed out. I almost passed out!!

I couldn''t watch. However, I''ve had plenty of times to rewatch it. I can''t believe how many times they''ve replayed it....

You know he''s going to have to go on a late night show wearing all of his gold medals. Or maybe all of his medals in general.

 

[Anna0499]

Date: 8/15/2008 11:23:09 PM
Author: diamondfan
I went to high school with Brad Torres, he looks like his sis! Yah, she was so nice to ask them to wait for the other swimmer. Classy.

A win is a win, 1/100th of a second is sooooo close but he touched the pad first and the review panel (FINA?) said they would not accept the complaint paperwork from Cavic's coach because they reviewed it and there was no reason to proceed...he won, close, by a hair, but still...it counts. I am sure MP is relieved, no world record there but hey, still just incredible.

Oh, definitely. I don't like second-guessing ANY judges/results without obvious proof of wrongdoing because it takes away from the winner's accomplishments and the spirit of the Games, so I say "Yay"

for MP. I think, though, that the review itself was certainly warranted in conjunction with the complaint because of the close margin of victory in a medal swim. If the review panel says MP won, then MP won and that's good enough for me. When I posted it was before I had heard they had conducted the review and weren't replaying it a bunch of times because of the other events going on.

He looked so so relieved when he got out of the pool, it was kind of funny. I'm sure he cherishes these wins more than the ones where he crushes the competition. Hopefully his teammates help him win another one to complete his amazing mission.

On a side note - what did you all think about the baseball and tennis post-loss comments being made by US coaches/players? It seems that the coaches have had a lot to say after loses...I haven't been following those sports as closely, so I was wondering if you guys knew what was going on.

 

[diamondfan]

Who has won what in those? I know Federer and Venus and Serena were knocked out, Federer by an American guy whose name I forget. I was pretty shocked and wonder how some of the top tennis players in the world and maybe in the history of the sport lost? And why tennis and bball are played by professionals....

 

[Anna0499]

Date: 8/16/2008 1:56:23 AM
Author: diamondfan
Who has won what in those? I know Federer and Venus and Serena were knocked out, Federer by an American guy whose name I forget. I was pretty shocked and wonder how some of the top tennis players in the world and maybe in the history of the sport lost? And why tennis and bball are played by professionals....

Yeah, I''ve noticed there have been quite a few upsets in the other sports...hopefully basketball wins the gold, because I really don''t see how we can lose with all the talent there but it is entirely possible if they have an off night and the other team plays well. Federer was beaten by James Blake, but then Blake was beaten by Chile''s Gonzalez and then lost the bronze medal to Serbia''s Djokovic, so our tennis singles didn''t medal. I just heard his comments after the loss to Gonzalez about unethical behavior of his opponent and wondered if anyone else had heard anything more. I don''t really follow or understand tennis, so I wasn''t sure what he was talking about. Our baseball team lost to Cuba in extra innings, but one player was injured in the final inning. The US coach accused Cuba''s pitcher of aiming at his player''s head, but the ball hit the bat first (the player was trying to bunt), then projected upwards to hit the player''s eye. I don''t know how baseball pitches work, but I didn''t think a pitcher could plan that out...I was wondering if anyone saw the game and what they thought about it. I think it''s sad that baseball and softball will be eliminated after this year, but I''m with you DF and I don''t understand why in some events professionals are allowed but not in others. Obviously we''re in baseball season right now though, so the MLB guys wouldn''t go even if they were allowed to...