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The Fire Thread!

Garry H (Cut Nut)

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Date: 10/12/2006 1:01:34 PM
Author: Rhino
Garry ... love the last shot you posted particularly the in-focus one in the upper right under the tree. IMO that is an excellent example of being able to observe both brightness and fire at the same time. I have this recorded in macro hi def video too and your pic is a nice static shot.

Cehera-Lynn, that''s what I''d consider soft dispersion mixed with brightness while the other shots in more direct lighting I''d consider strong fire.

A couple of years ago (I think it was during GIA''s research on DCLR (dispersed colored light return)) they broke down different definitions between ''fire'' and ''dispersion'' although in the minds of most they mean the same thing as they are closely related.

Actually ... here''s a link to the article specifically on this subject on the GIA site which I think most here will find interesting.

http://www.gia.edu/research/1383/2307/article_detail.cfm

This article http://www.gia.edu/pdfs/Fall_2001_Cut.pdf is a much harder read Rhino, but shows how GIA attempted to quantify or design a metric for fire (DCLR).

Here are some quotes from it:

However, in
the same dictionary, the definition for fire states
merely ¡§see Dispersion.¡¨ Since all diamonds have
the same dispersion value (0.044), this definition is
not adequate. Rather, fire is the result of dispersion.
Thus, we suggest a more direct definition: fire is the
visible extent of light dispersed into spectral colors.
As with WLR to express brilliance, we have developed
a metric, or number, to express how well a
round brilliant can disperse¡Xor spread¡Xlight into
colors (dispersed colored light return, or DCLR, as
defined on p. 181 below).

Our ¡§observer¡¨ for WLR was a hemisphere
at infinity (with a cosine squared weighting
function for the returned light), and we found that
this observer was a good choice for viewing fire

The combination of point light source and infinite
viewing distance yields only dispersed light on
the observing hemisphere; that is, the result appears
as various colored streaks (with no white centers).
These streaks are composed of colored spots showing
the final exit directions of individual rays.

DCLR = „¦streaks „¦colors (Area „ªƒnSmoothed Intensity
„ªƒnWeighting Factor)


The last part is a mathematical formula that probably does not copy and paste.
Sergey showed the GIA researchers after that article, in a never published letter to the Editor of Gems & Gemology, that their formula was independant of dispersion - so they would get the same result for quartzs as for diamond.


It is also clear that they used a model that avoided the white flare that is common in the center of a spectral flash - they did this by using the equivalent of an infinite light surce (like the sun) and assessing the fire at an infinite distance. They wasted a heap of money.
They could have used Sergey''s and Yuri''s free tools that were published years before on the Moscow Uni site and done a better (but still wrong) job.
There is more to be learned from looking at and reading about the images posted here
36.gif


 

Ellen

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Hmm, interesting. Thanks. I just took some pics that will qualify, a lot like that 9 ct.

And BTW Gary, what DOES one do with a 9 ct. round?
23.gif
 

Garry H (Cut Nut)

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Date: 10/12/2006 1:01:34 PM
Author: Rhino
Garry ... love the last shot you posted particularly the in-focus one in the upper right under the tree. IMO that is an excellent example of being able to observe both brightness and fire at the same time. I have this recorded in macro hi def video too and your pic is a nice static shot.

Cehera-Lynn, that''s what I''d consider soft dispersion mixed with brightness while the other shots in more direct lighting I''d consider strong fire.

A couple of years ago (I think it was during GIA''s research on DCLR (dispersed colored light return)) they broke down different definitions between ''fire'' and ''dispersion'' although in the minds of most they mean the same thing as they are closely related.

Actually ... here''s a link to the article specifically on this subject on the GIA site which I think most here will find interesting.

http://www.gia.edu/research/1383/2307/article_detail.cfm

another thing that we learned about right here on Pricescope during a debate with Beryl (Bruce Harding) (which I lost, but learned from) was titled the reversability of fire or dispersion or something like that - anyway Bruce showed us all that light entering a diamond produces hardly any fire at all - almost all the fire is produced at the point of exit. I hope this DiamCalc graphic shows it.

GIA in the article you linked to Rhino state:

"The second factor that affects the amount of fire a particular polished diamond can display is entry angle. Again, the sharper the angle through which the light enters the diamond, the more the light beam will be dispersed (figure 7). Light begins to disperse as soon as it enters the diamond. This initial dispersion becomes increasingly important as the light experiences the next two types of interactions.

A third important factor is the number of facet interactions the beam of light has while inside the polished diamond. Basically, the more times the beam of light bounces (reflects) inside the diamond, the longer the light beam''s path will be before it exits the diamond. Longer light paths lead to more widely spread light beams.




fire inside vs exiting a diamond.jpg
 

Garry H (Cut Nut)

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Date: 10/12/2006 8:52:43 PM
Author: Ellen
Hmm, interesting. Thanks. I just took some pics that will qualify, a lot like that 9 ct.

And BTW Gary, what DOES one do with a 9 ct. round?
23.gif
It was not my 1st choice - but the customer is always right Ellen

9ct bling 2.jpg
 

Cehrabehra

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Date: 10/12/2006 9:30:22 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

Date: 10/12/2006 8:52:43 PM
Author: Ellen
Hmm, interesting. Thanks. I just took some pics that will qualify, a lot like that 9 ct.

And BTW Gary, what DOES one do with a 9 ct. round?
23.gif
It was not my 1st choice - but the customer is always right Ellen
ITA with you garry - I liked your drawing, in fact my ring is quite different, but I love that draping elegance and did include that in my ring :)
 

anacgarcia

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another firey pic of my ring

fireP1050714.jpg
 

lumpkin

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Here is one of mine.

fire2rbring.jpg
 

lumpkin

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Here''s another.

fire3rbring.jpg
 

Cehrabehra

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Date: 10/14/2006 1:54:18 PM
Author: lumpkin
Here is one of mine.
I (heart) fire!!!
 

Ellen

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Anny and lumpkin, love the pics!!


I got some comparison photos to the ones I took on the kitchen chair. I put down white copy paper. What I noticed for sure was, I couldn''t get the big colored flares I did with the darker background.



NewRing01979F.JPG
 

Ellen

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...

NewRing01988F.JPG
 

Ellen

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...

NewRing01980F.JPG
 

Ellen

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Before I started shooting, I set my ring down on the chair and walked away. When I came back, I noticed how pretty it looked with the sunlight filtering through the slats, kinda like sunlight through leaves, so I shot a few that way too.

NewRing02013F.JPG
 

Ellen

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Out of focus.

NewRing02005F.JPG
 

Ellen

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Last one, pretty.

NewRing01975F.JPG
 

widget

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Date: 10/17/2006 10:37:29 AM
Author: Ellen
Before I started shooting, I set my ring down on the chair and walked away. When I came back, I noticed how pretty it looked with the sunlight filtering through the slats, kinda like sunlight through leaves, so I shot a few that way too.
Wow....I LOVE that picture!

Heehee...every time a new batch of pics show up on this thread, I''m inspired to go out and "play" with my camera again. So far, I can''t come close to these incredible "kaleidoscope" shots!

widget
 

Ellen

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Just keep practicing and experimenting widg!


I keep waiting for other Asschers, and all you OEC and OMC girls to post. *tapping fingers*
 

Garry H (Cut Nut)

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Date: 10/17/2006 12:21:25 PM
Author: widget

Date: 10/17/2006 10:37:29 AM
Author: Ellen
Before I started shooting, I set my ring down on the chair and walked away. When I came back, I noticed how pretty it looked with the sunlight filtering through the slats, kinda like sunlight through leaves, so I shot a few that way too.
Wow....I LOVE that picture!

Heehee...every time a new batch of pics show up on this thread, I''m inspired to go out and ''play'' with my camera again. So far, I can''t come close to these incredible ''kaleidoscope'' shots!

widget
\it is mostly in the lighting and a steady hand
 

upgrading mama

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Ok, now this is a totally horrible picture of me....
but, take a look at my left hand. CHECK OUT the sparkle comng off my ring!
and oddly enough my hubby caught it in the picture before I did!

DSC05449m.jpg
 

Cehrabehra

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Date: 10/17/2006 1:19:06 PM
Author: Ellen
Just keep practicing and experimenting widg!


I keep waiting for other Asschers, and all you OEC and OMC girls to post. *tapping fingers*
hey now! I''ve posted and mine is an OMC!!!
 

Cehrabehra

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Date: 10/18/2006 12:05:02 AM
Author: Sophie
Ok, now this is a totally horrible picture of me....
but, take a look at my left hand. CHECK OUT the sparkle comng off my ring!
and oddly enough my hubby caught it in the picture before I did!
woooo that''s great when you can catch it on accident from a distance!!! :D
 

Rhino

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Beautiful shots!

Ellen ... you never cease to blow me away.
3.gif
 

Ellen

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Eric, great stone shot, glad you like the thread!

Sophie, now that''s bling.
9.gif


Cehra, I know you''ve posted, but there are SO many out there.
2.gif


Jon, thanks! Really, it''s too much fun.
5.gif
 

widget

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Looky! I got some color! Not quite as spectacular as yours, Ellen....but I''m working on it.
1.gif
(Garry''s "steady hand" tip helped a lot.)

widget

000_4136.jpg
 

widget

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....here''s one more....

000_4135.jpg
 

Ellen

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36.gif
30.gif
Just gorgeous widget!
 

Kaleigh

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Wow widget, those pics are awesome!!!
30.gif
30.gif
 

Cehrabehra

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Date: 10/18/2006 3:15:13 PM
Author: widget
Looky! I got some color! Not quite as spectacular as yours, Ellen....but I''m working on it.
1.gif
(Garry''s ''steady hand'' tip helped a lot.)

widget
super and superb!!!! it''s about time someone showed off all the magic of an asscher!! keep ''em coming!!!!!!! more more more more!!!
 

Stone Hunter

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Date: 10/17/2006 10:37:29 AM
Author: Ellen
Before I started shooting, I set my ring down on the chair and walked away. When I came back, I noticed how pretty it looked with the sunlight filtering through the slats, kinda like sunlight through leaves, so I shot a few that way too.
I really love the colors in this photo. Filtered light is the way to go. GREAT diamond too.
 
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