The Bread Thread.

[Octavia]

Date: 11/23/2009 3:33:51 PM
Author: elrohwen

Date: 11/23/2009 2:45:27 PM

Author: Octavia


If you have a gas stove, you can also just throw the bowl of rising dough into the oven (when it''s turned off, of course). The pilot light will usually provide enough warmth. With an electric oven, turn your oven temp to the lowest setting for about 2-3 minutes, then turn it off and put the bowl of dough inside. In slightly warmer weather, even just leaving the light on inside an electric stove will provide enough warmth for a good rise. For the second rise, I find that putting it on top of the preheating oven is usually good enough.

Octavia, I''ve always done the rising-on-a-preheating-oven trick, but never knew that the pilot light in the oven would provide enough heat for the first rise! So cool! I will absolutely be doing that from now on. I always grew up with electric, so maybe that''s why I''ve never heard this trick.

Yep, unless the kitchen is really cold, and then it might need a little extra boost. You don''t want the environment to be too warm for the dough, because it can rise too quickly and not develop the best flavor. Ovens are good rising spots because they''re pretty draft-free, and you can make them slightly warm without being too warm. The pilot light/oven light trick also works for making yogurt, although you also need to swaddle the bowl in a thick towel for that.

 

[Camille]

Great advice given by Octavia

Just keep in mind that yeast dies around 139° F
If you have a food grade container w/tight lid, grease the base of it, place your dough in turning once to coat all sides, cover and place in a sink filled half way w/warm water, it will rise faster w/o draft worries. Yep, same insolation works for yogurt, using a larger pot instead of the sink.
* PAM=lecithin=uniformity, spraying your bowls with it to prevent dough sticking is not a bad idea 2¢

 

[Jas12]

Carbolicious goodness......

Cinnamon buns at the beginning of the second rise

(just used a basic sweet dough)

I don''t normally bake them in a disposal tin pan like that (actually think it effected the rise a bit) but they were for a bunch of tradesmen working on my house so i didn''t want my good bake wear to end up in a bucket of tools somewhere

 

[Jas12]

....and "the heart" . Best part right?

I smother mine in a cream cheese frosting.

 

[Mara]

JAS you evil evil girl!! I friggin love cinnamon rolls. How is your recipe for sweet dough? I have made them once or twice with sweet dough and I don't love them as much as brioche cinnamon rolls. If you have a good recipe, please post!!

Oh and when you cut the log of rolls, how do you not tear them or stretch them out? I use a pizza cutter but it still seems to kind of flatten them out when I cut the log?

Thanks for all the tips on the warming and rising... I'll have to try a few things my next batch.

 

[Jas12]

Mara--my sweet dough is a soft, moist bread. The whole recipe tastes very much like a Cinnabon. They are soft and kinda tear apart. That''s the way i like them so i worked on my recipe a bit, but everyone has a preference. I grandma likes a chewy topping with a flaky dough & calls them sticky buns. That''s a totally different dessert IMO, but oh so good too.
What do you top yours with?

 

[cammy85]

MMMM... Jas, I have sticky buns prepped and waiting for this weekend. Your pictures make me want to dive right in!

I have recently gotten back into making breads, I used to have bake-offs with my dad when i was around 10-11 - he''d use his bread machine and I''d do it by hand. It was all tasty in the end, but I was always amazed at how different two loaves of bread from the exact same dough can look. My was a little denser with smaller bubbles distributed throughout, and his was ''puffier'' and a little more crumbly. I loveeeeeeed them both. I think watching bread rise is so interesting and I love the texture of bread dough. Oh man, if only I had the time to bake more. I need some good loaf recipes so maybe I can bake some to save? Do they freeze ok?

 

[Octavia]

Jas, those cinnamon buns look amazing! I'd have loved one of them for breakfast this morning...

Cammy, bread is definitely freezable. You want to wrap it really well -- start with a paper towel (will absorb excess moisture as it thaws, so it doesn't get gummy), then plastic wrap, then aluminum foil. It can store for up to a month or so if it's well-wrapped. It sounds wasteful, but you can always reuse the plastic wrap and aluminum foil for the next batch!

Bread texture is really a fascinating thing. Did you know that wetter is better when it comes to bread dough? I just recently learned that, thanks to Mark Bittman and King Arthur, and my breads have improved so much. Wet or "slack" doughs yield breads with much larger holes, while drier or "stiffer" doughs are denser. Makes sense, since the dry doughs have more flour = a weightier loaf. I love kneading dough by hand, but hurt my wrist awhile ago and kneading really strains it, so I have to use the KitchenAid...which bothered me until I realized that it makes for much better loaf because it can stay much stickier.

I made a sourdough starter recently and have been making "cheater's" sourdough (adding extra yeast to speed things up) for a few weeks now. I'm now working on my first real sourdough, which just uses the yeast in the starter, and I'm so impatient to see how it comes out! Good thing I'm in class all day, or I'd be poking at it all the time. I'll take some pictures if it comes out decently! Can't wait for Thanksgiving rolls, too...yum.

 

[Mara]

actually jas i make the sticky buns with melted pecans and honey and brown sugar...so you flip them out and the stuff is all on top. yummy. i haven''t made a TRUE cinnamon roll but i am always tempted. for the topping do you just put on cream cheese/butter/conf sugar mixture?

do you mind posting your recipe for the sweet dough? i might try it sometime during the holidays. the brioche is SO yummy but it is really time consuming.

someone else asked about bread machines... i have one but i would like to learn to make all this stuff by scratch. the kneading i will have to be careful with right now, because i actually strained a muscle on my right side a few weeks ago rolling out tart dough for a honey pine nut tart. yes i know, sounds so silly right?? hurt like heck for a day. but i am in my third tri and i read you can more easily kind of pull and tear things than normal. so i may not be able to get all crazy with kneading and rolling out recipes until the kid pops out.

 

[Octavia]

There was a whole thread about cinnamon rolls awhile ago. I''ve made them several times from the recipe ladypirate posted there, and they are soooo delicious! I still can''t cut the log correctly, but fortunately that doesn''t affect the taste!

 

[elrohwen]

Mara, if you''re on light kneading duty, I would suggest making softer types of bread - white bread, sweet breads, etc. I find you can get by with a lot less kneading on these ones than on, say, a crusty European style bread, and still have a good texture. My mom often gets lazy and only kneads for 2 minutes, but her Christmas bread comes out great

Do you have a stand mixer? I can''t see myself ever using a bread machine, but I would absolutely use a stand mixer for kneading if I had one. I agree with Octavia that they can actually do a better job since the dough can remain wetter.



Has anyone used pearlized sugar as a topping for cinnamon rolls? It''s like rock salt, but sugar instead

. My aunt lives in Sweden and she always sprinkles some on top of her cinnamon rolls. I found a package at Ikea and it actually has a yummy cinnamon roll recipe on the back (tastes suspiciously like my aunt''s cinnamond rolls ... ). I don''t have much of a sweet tooth and I far prefer this type of cinnamon roll to the super sticky sweet Cinnabon types. Anybody with me on that? Or am I the only non-sweet tooth here?

 

[Mara]

thanks el and octavia! yes i have a KA... i do use it to start the doughs a lot of times and sometimes i let it do the kneading (like on brioche!)... good idea to potentially keep doing that now at least. i actually burned out the motor on my first KA mixer after having it for 10 years on a loaf of brioche. i didn''t realize you had to keep it on low/low-med for butter heavy breads like that when you are kneading for 10 min+..WOOPS. so i am far more careful with my new one.

speaking of cutting the log correctly, what do you other gals do to try to get a clean swift cut? my pizza cutter works great on most breads for cutting but on the log i end up kind of sawing.

 

[elrohwen]

Date: 11/24/2009 11:32:06 AM
Author: Mara
speaking of cutting the log correctly, what do you other gals do to try to get a clean swift cut? my pizza cutter works great on most breads for cutting but on the log i end up kind of sawing.

Good question! I usually use a metal bread knife, but it still squishes and I end up having to un-squish everything again.

The only thing that has ever worked for me is to partially freeze the roll, then cut with a regular sharp knife. Though I'm usually too impatient to put it in the freezer for a while, hence the squishing and un-squishing that I do.

I hope someone else has a brilliant suggestion.

 

[Camille]

I use SS pastry scraper to slice them [sharp] if not avail dental floss works like a charm, once the dough cylinder is uniform, slide a long dental floss under it, find the center [could measure first time] cross the threadd and pull quickly, you will have a clean slice.
Cut two parts in half again, repeat until desired size [# slices] We like tall rolls so my slices are 1 1/2-2" wide= 3 repeats=8 huge rolls

Good looking rolls Jas!
elrohwen yep, love pearl [hail] sugar, it looks beautiful!

 

[Jas12]

Mara--i''ll post that recipe. (gotta find it first since we are in the process of building a house and some stuff is packed up and moved there)
As for cutting. I just use a heavy chopping knife. Seems to cut them cleanly. it is a soft dough so the knife slips thru. I know some ppl use a serated knife and gently saw, but i''ve never had to do that.
And for the topping yep, i just use a brick of cream cheese, a touch of vanilla, and butter and icing sugar to taste. I go much heavier on the c-cheese taste b/c the bun is already so sweet.

Yum, a brioche roll with nuts and sugar is divine. I would call those sticky buns and a diff process b/c the ones i make don''t bake with the topping, but just as divine. Have never made brioche. But it''s probably similar to the italian easter bread i make, in that it takes a lot of kneading.
A sweet dough is easy to knead. 8-10 min of agentle working of the dough is all that is needed.

 

[Jas12]

oh, i am so hungry for some warm, homemade bread right now!

 

[Octavia]

If anyone is feeling guilty about not kneading by hand, try this recipe: Ciabatta Three Ways. It''s impossible to knead it by hand, so you have no choice but to use the KA! And it comes out beautifully -- better than the bread at many Italian restaurants. It takes some planning ahead (the sponge has to be made the day before) but it''s so worth it.

I have no suggestions for cutting cinnamon rolls...I usually use a serrated knife and it squashes them and spits filling out all over the place, but they still come out fine. I''ve also used a regular, sharp chef''s knife with limited success. I have thought of wrapping the outside of the log tightly with waxed paper or parchment before cutting, and then removing the strips of paper once the roll is in the pan, but haven''t actually tried it yet. Next time I make them, I''ll try it and report back! I like the freezing suggestion, too.

 

[Jas12]

Octavia--can''t wait to see how the starter turns out. I have a polish sourdough starter in the fridge right now, and you just reminded me, i need to use it. That''s the only thing i find a PITA about starters. I don''t have as much time as i used to so i don''t always want to bake a loaf of the same kind of bread every couple weeks , BUT hate to waste it so i gotta keep it alive!

MUST try that Ciabatta recipe in my KA. Thanks for posting


oh you enablers. I have a ton of cuppies to make for a baby shower this weekend, but all i want to do is bake bread now!

 

[Octavia]

Jas, there are lots of recipes out there for discarded sourdough starter. I know I keep mentioning King Arthur, but it''s just so darn easy to find stuff there...like sourdough chocolate cake, sourdough pizza dough, and sourdough waffles. Yummmmm. There are also stories of people who go months between feedings of the starter, so you can probably push it out more than a couple weeks without killing it. Just as long as it doesn''t turn red/pink/orange, it''s usually good.

I''ve been on a huge bread kick the past couple months, so I am LOVING this thread!

 

[Mara]

lol el..i am impatient too, i typically just want to get those rolls rising and in the oven and into my mouth! haha.

i know it''s not the same as homemade but i have to plug the TJ''s frozen sticky buns. you can get them in a group of 4, just take them out of freezer, let them rise overnight and then bake in the morning. they are pretty darn good in a pinch.

jas if you find the bread recipe pls post and i will make them this wkd hehe. if not i might try another new recipe!

 

[FrekeChild]

Cutting cinnamon rolls--"bench scraper" I actually have one of these OXO ones--it''s sharper than others I''ve used.

Mara, I''d suggest Bread Alone after something for a home cook, like The Bread Bible.

 

[Jas12]

Octavia--ohh, good to know! i didn''t know i could extend the life a bit longer. Mine''s been in the fridge about 2-3 weeks and was thinking it was toast. I''ll have to make it this weekend then.

Frekke--good tip about the bench scraper. come to think of it, i have used mine to cut rolls before.

 

[elrohwen]

Freke, I love my scraper! I usually use it to cut rolls and things rather than a knife.

 

[Skippy123]

Date: 11/22/2009 10:08:05 PM
Author: *Lindsey*
I don't have a ton of time to post here tonight, but I will be back to this thread tomorrow.

I am an avid baker and loooove bread. Here is a picture of the honey wheat bread that I made a few days ago.

I love honey wheat bread, yum!!!

I have a super yummy butter horn recipe I will have to post. They are so GOOD!

My mom is a fabulous bread maker. I tried to learn from her but she THROWS stuff together and never measures. She makes the Best Tortillas and the best dinner rolls, empanadas and cinnamon rolls.

I just follow recipes.

 

[soocool]

Date: 11/23/2009 9:43:15 PM
Author: Jas12
Carbolicious goodness......

Cinnamon buns at the beginning of the second rise

(just used a basic sweet dough)

I don''t normally bake them in a disposal tin pan like that (actually think it effected the rise a bit) but they were for a bunch of tradesmen working on my house so i didn''t want my good bake wear to end up in a bucket of tools somewhere

Jas, your cinnamon rolls look so delicious!

I make my dough in the bread machine and it turns out really well. I have an electric oven and will try the turn the oven on for a couple of minutes and then off to get the second rise. And as I understand keep the oven temp under 139 degrees.

Does it make a difference if I place my cinnamon rolls in a glass pan or metal pan for them to rise?

 

[Jas12]

Soocool--i don''t have a bread maker so i''ve never tried that method, but i am sure it''s just as delish!
As for pans, the only real differerence i''ve noticed is that in a metal pan the brown sugar that melts down seems to caramelize a bit more on the bottom of the bun (which is yummy) but the dough seems to stay a bit softer in the glass (which i also like). I think the difference is pretty marginal, but maybe some of the expert bakers can chime in.....

 

[Mara]

So I got up this morning and mixed the dough for KA''s Cinnamon Roll recipe and set it to rise on the oven after turning it on for 5 min. Went back to bed and the house fell to 68, a little cool for our place, it loses heat quickly. So no rise when I got back up. BOO. I put it in the micro with a steaming cup of water and it''s slowly rising but taking forever. Did my yeast basically die in the colder house temp for an hour? I figure I will still roll them out and fill them and try the second rise to see what happens.

Also the KA recipe called for nonfat dry milk which I don''t have so I used milk and water instead. I warmed the water slightly. Anyway will report back. This is my first time with this recipe... so who knows.

 

[Octavia]

Mara, yeast doesn''t mind cold (hence you can put dough in the fridge to rise overnight for some recipes, if you want!), so your rolls should be okay. It will just take awhile for the dough to warm up to a temperature the yeast likes a lot, and then you should see a good rise. If you are baking things in your oven and the top of the stove is warm (and not in use), that''s also a good place to put the rising dough. Also, a lot of KA recipes call for dry milk, but it''s not really necessary. I think you''ll be fine! Can''t wait to see pics

 

[Mara]

Thanks Octavia...! I didn''t even think about the yeast and fridge but that makes sense, I have put dough in overnight and let it rest with no issues...preggo brain! The rise did finally happen albeit slowly...so I rolled them out and now put them for 2nd rise in the microwave again since it seems to like that environment. Unfort at 8am the oven was not in use...who will be the genius who comes up with a foolproof cinnamon roll with only ONE rise before bake so you CAN have them in time for breakfast???

While I love all the yeasty breakfast treats ... it seems so time consuming to try to make rolls or croissants for breakfast given the 2-3 hour rise times total (croissants more!). Who can make it that long with no food?!?!? As it is now we eat a little breakfast then rolls later.

I guess I could make the dough the night before then fridge it after the first rise overnight?

Speaking of cold yeast and dough... I would like to make some rolls and other things like this for when the baby comes and keep them frozen and ready to go so we can just rise and pop into the oven on some mornings when we want a treat. Would I just make the dough, rise, roll, fill, cut and then freeze covered in the actual baking container? Then take them out of freezer at the appropriate time, and let rise then bake? If so, how long out of freezer to let dough thaw, rise and bake typically...are there any ''average'' estimates...aka 1-2 hours from freezer to oven?

 

[Mara]

second rise went easily and i popped them in the oven. mixed up butter and cream cheese with conf sugar and heavy cream. of course had to eat a 'tester'. YUM!!! this recipe is def one of my favorites...the bread is not too sweet and it's light but thick enough to hold the cream topping. i'm glad you gals reminded me about the KA baking book since that is where i dug out the recipe from. sorry for the crappy iphone photo but i was too lazy to dig out the real camera.