The Bread Thread.

[Mara]

It's been suggested a few times in the Cupcake Thread that we should also have a Bread Thread. i kept thinking about starting one, but then would keep forgetting! So here it is! I really would like to learn more about how to make bread...the basics, and tips and tricks that long-term bread makers can offer to us newbies. So far i have made croissants, danishes, and a few other yeasty treats, but quite frankly my yeast skills need a LOT of work.

i have the art and soul of baking from sur la table which has a lot of bread recipes but the one or two i have made so far have not been THAT impressive from a result perspective to me honestly.

so Thanksgiving is coming up and i would LOVE to learn more about how to make my own rolls this year for both holidays. does anyone have a tried and true recipe for dinner rolls that is very yummy, but that is not too complicated? i don't even know what a 'typical' dinner roll is supposed to be? sweet? sour?

and anyone else who has bread questions or tips, please post!! i have been thinking about my own sourdough starter but i think greg would flip out if i started growing bacteria in the kitchen.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

My mom always made our bread and I use to make it too when I was young (15-1. . .it''s been way too long for me to remember exactly what she did, but a year or two back, I did get into making pizza dough and what I''d do to rise the dough is stick it on top of the dryer when it was running to help the dough rise.

 

[neatfreak]

Well I will say that King Arthur flour makes incredible flours, sourdough starters, flavorings, etc. Their recipes are also pretty great too and fairly foolproof usually. They have a recipe archive online.

This is the starter I like from them:
http://www.kingarthurflour.com/shop/items/classic-fresh-sourdough-starter-1-oz

Oh and Mara thanks for recommending those cake supply stores. I tried to go over there today but you were right both are closed on Sundays. So I am going to try and head there on Wednesday or Friday this week to stock up. So annoying though that they are an hour from me. Yuck. Wish there was something closer.

 

[Kaleigh]

Mara,
Great thread. I adore bread, and since Ash is into making bread, was wondering if there was a book you could recommend for Xmas for me to give to her that isn''t too complicated. Is Sur La Table over the top for a beginner?? I don''t want to overwhelm the poor gal, LOL!!!

 

[Mara]

NF where are you located? There is another decorating place in Berkeley that I think is called Spun Sugar, so if you are in the East Bay that might be a better option for proximity. I haven't been there but they have amazing looking classes and the reviews say they have a lot of baking and decorating supplies. There might be one other place in SF but we don't have that many places like that in general. We are super lucky to have even those 2 in SJ!

I think I have the KA baking bible book, but I haven't made anything from it. Well I think I made one cake but a long time ago. I do love to use KA flour. I will have to dig out the book and see what looks good and check out what you linked.

MC...yeah I need to find a nice consistently warm area for the rises, in our new house the kitchen doesn't get as warm as our old place, so I have had a harder time finding a warm area for a rise. I didn't think of running the dryer.

Kaleigh...I do like the Sur La Table book and it has a LOT of recipes that look intriguing. But again I've made 2 things from there and I wasn't *that* impressed with the outcome. They were not bad by any means but I didn't think they were the 'best'.

If I just could have one book from the ones I have so far that are 'general' baking... I would keep the Dorie Greenspan Baking from My Home To Yours. I even belonged to a baking community where we'd bake from it once a week for it for a while...but once a week got to be too much for me. Her pecan sticky buns are AMAZING. Much better than the recipe in Sur La Table but then again Dorie uses Brioche..and hello anything with brioche is so good.

The Sur La Table book has a lot of breads which I liked, Dorie's does not have as many...and it has some amazing looking cakes like a Lemon Marscapone layer cake, OMG. Oh and the Sur La Table book I thought is a bit better for beginners because it has a big section on describing methods and education as well..aka there is a page on making caramel. Whereas a lot of other books don't give you a primer on stuff like that.

 

[lliang_chi]

Mara & other bread bakers,

My sis and I made bread as a summer project. But I did find two VERY tasty dinner roll recipes in case you want to try them for Thanksgiving. Both are from epicurious.com

Dear Little Rolls

Combine and cool:
1 cup milk, scalded
1/2 cup margarine
1/2 cup sugar
1 teaspoon salt

Add:
1 package dry yeast
3 beaten eggs

Add to:
4 1/2 cups all purpose flour

Mix until ingredients form a smooth, soft dough. Knead lightly on floured surface for several minutes. Place dough in greased bowl. Cover. Let rise until at least double in bulk.

Divide dough in thirds; roll each third out on floured surface to 9-inch circle. Brush with melted butter. Cut each circle in 12 to 16 wedges. Roll each wedge starting with wide end. (makes a crescent roll shape). Arrange on greased baking sheet and brush with melted butter. Cover and let rise until almost double in size.

Bake at 400°F for 10 to 15 minutes. Remove rolls from pan and brush with butter and cool on racks.

NB: These rolls brown very quickly on the bottom so keep your eye on them.

 

[neatfreak]

Date: 11/22/2009 9:57:45 PM
Author: Mara
NF where are you located? There is another decorating place in Berkeley that I think is called Spun Sugar, so if you are in the East Bay that might be a better option for proximity. I haven't been there but they have amazing looking classes and the reviews say they have a lot of baking and decorating supplies. There might be one other place in SF but we don't have that many places like that in general. We are super lucky to have even those 2 in SJ!

Yeah-I know about spun sugar too. Thanks! That one is still about an hour too. We're in the East Bay but the very east east bay. Can't find a cake store out here except for Michaels-yuck. We're near Pleasanton.

 

[lliang_chi]

Cloverleaf Rolls.

These are the CUTEST rolls ever, but they require a little more work:

3 tablespoons warm water (105–115°F)
1 (1/4-ounce) package active dry yeast (2 1/2 teaspoons)
3 tablespoons sugar
1 stick (1/2 cup) unsalted butter
1 cup whole milk
2 cups bread flour
1 1/2 teaspoons salt
1 1/2 to 2 cups all-purpose flour
1 large egg, lightly beaten with 2 teaspoons water
About 1 tablespoon poppy seeds and/or toasted sesame seeds for sprinkling

Special equipment: 2 muffin pans with a total of at least 18 (1/2-cup) muffin cups

Make dough:
Stir together warm water, yeast, and 1 tablespoon sugar in a small bowl until yeast is dissolved, then let stand until foamy, about 5 minutes. (If mixture doesn''t foam, discard and start over with new yeast.)

Melt 3/4 stick butter in a small saucepan, then add milk and heat to lukewarm. Stir together yeast mixture, remaining 2 tablespoons sugar, butter mixture, bread flour, and salt in a bowl with a wooden spoon until combined well, then stir in 1 1/2 cups all-purpose flour, or enough to make a slightly sticky dough.

Butter a large bowl. Knead dough on a lightly floured surface, kneading in more all-purpose flour as needed to keep dough from sticking, until smooth and elastic, about 10 minutes (dough will still be slightly sticky). Form dough into a ball and put in buttered bowl, turning to coat. Let dough rise, bowl covered tightly with plastic wrap, in a draft-free place at warm room temperature until doubled in bulk, about 1 hour.

Make rolls:
Butter 18 muffin cups with remaining 2 tablespoons butter.

Turn out dough onto a lightly floured surface and divide into thirds. Working with 1 piece at a time (keep remaining portions covered with plastic wrap), cut off tablespoon pieces of dough and form pieces into balls. Put 3 balls into each buttered muffin cup. Let rolls rise, loosely covered with a kitchen towel (not terry cloth), in draft-free place at warm room temperature until almost doubled in bulk, 30 to 40 minutes.

While rolls rise, put oven rack in middle position and preheat oven to 400°F.

Brush rolls lightly with egg wash and sprinkle with seeds. Bake until golden, 15 to 20 minutes. Serve warm.

 

[lliang_chi]

Mara, I usually put my dough on top of the fridge. No drafts, and still kinda warm enough. Also if your oven gets down low enough, try rising it in there.

 

[Mara]

thanks lliang for the recipes! i figured there were a ton of roll recipes out there, but didn''t know what to look for in a ''good'' one.

our fridge is set into a cabinet so we don''t have a top of fridge unfortunately or else i would use that. right now i just put it in our laundry room but it''s not necessarily warm. i was making danishes a few months ago and could not get them to rise. it was so sad.

nf...yeah i think i recall kind of where you are at. i''d try SJ over berkeley then since you have your choice of pauline''s or cakeworks in case one doesn''t have something!! i also love amazon for some of the more obscure brand items if you don''t want to pay full retail pricing.

 

[ljmorgan]

I don''t have a ton of time to post here tonight, but I will be back to this thread tomorrow.

I am an avid baker and loooove bread. Here is a picture of the honey wheat bread that I made a few days ago.

 

[Mara]

Linds that bread looks amazing!! So shiny and perfect. That''s what I aspire to!

 

[FrekeChild]

One of my go to bread books...that I got years BEFORE I got to meet him, take a class from him (baking ingredients) and take a field trip to his bakery to taste his bread. Every P chef I''ve ever met thinks he''s the MAN when it comes to bread.

Bread Alone by Daniel Leader

And a newer version of my old standby, but these are in professional measurements.

Baking and Pastry: Mastering the Art and Craft by The Culinary Institute of America

Other bread books:

Crust and Crumb: Master Formulas for Serious Bread Bakers by peter Reinhart

The Bread Builders: Hearth Loaves and Masonry Ovens by Daniel Wing and Alan Scott

 

[AGBF]

Thanks for starting this thread, Mara. I used to be an enthusiastic bread baker, although I don''t know if I ever made a loaf as esthetically pleasing as the loaves made by Lindsey (pictured above). I hope I will be able to participate in this thread more in the coming weeks.

AGBF

 

[AGBF]

Date: 11/23/2009 12:13:51 AM
Author: Mara
Linds that bread looks amazing!! So shiny and perfect. That''s what I aspire to!

It looks as if it has been washed with egg.

AGBF

 

[Jas12]

Oh mara--look what ya started. I am going to blame you for major carb cravings now!
I was tempted to start this thread too, but then i''d only have myself to blame right?

Lindsey--that honey bread looks divine! Need a slice. now.

I have favourite recipes that''ll post pics of tonight if i remember. I just absolutely love the bread making process. The kneading is so comforting and the smell of yeast in the room is pure heaven. I am not a pro by any stretch, but i think i have more of a touch for bread making than other cooking methods. I suck at pastry which also requires an eye and a feel but for some reason i can''t transfer this skill over to that area.

I think my faves to bake right now are: Polish sourdough w/ 5 grains (a hearty and dense bread that is very healthful)
Sweet Dough ( NOT very healthful, but ohhh so delicious cinnamon bun base)
Challah ( family fave)
Naan (who doesn''t like Naan?!)
Italian Easter Bread (my nona''s recipe, melts in your mouth!)

 

[Octavia]

Date: 11/22/2009 9:37:06 PM
Author: neatfreak
Well I will say that King Arthur flour makes incredible flours, sourdough starters, flavorings, etc. Their recipes are also pretty great too and fairly foolproof usually. They have a recipe archive online.


This is the starter I like from them:

http://www.kingarthurflour.com/shop/items/classic-fresh-sourdough-starter-1-oz

I second King Arthur as a great resource. They even have a hotline you can call with questions or for help if things aren''t going well. Also, the website isn''t just a store, but also has a huge recipe collection and a blog where their bakers show recipes step-by-step, with photos. The comments on the recipes and blog are really helpful, too! I''ll be back to this thread a little later.

 

[elrohwen]

Yay bread! I'll post two of my favorite recipes. First is Houska. This is a traditional Czech/Polish bread, typically made during the holidays and easter. It's a bit sweet, though far less sweet than most things you would buy in a super market. There's no glaze or anything, but it's just sweet enough to make the perfect breakfast or dessert bread. It's braided, and should be done in a very fancy style, but I just divide up into two loaves and braid each one because I find it bakes more evenly than in the elaborate formation.

This is my favorite bread of all time, honestly, and I've been making it on my own since I was 12 years old!

Houska
2 eggs
2 pkgs yeast
1/2 c water
1 c milk
1/2 c sugar
1/4 lb butter, melted
1 t salt
4 1/2 - 5 1/2 c flour
1 c golden raisins

Heat 1/2 c water to lukewarm. Add yeast, 1 T sugar, and let raise for a few minutes.

Mix milk and butter and heat until warm (but not hot). Beat eggs with sugar, salt, and yeast mixture. Add to milk and butter.

Add in flour and raisins and knead for 5 minutes maximum. Don't over knead and don't add more flour than needed; this will keep it very soft and tender. Let raise until double (1 1/2 hours approximately).

Punch down and divide into six equal pieces. Roll pieces out into ropes and braid two loaves, 3 ropes per braid (you can modify this and do a 4 rope braid if you know how to do them). Let raise on a sheet pan for 25 minutes. Brush with melted butter. Bake at 350 degrees for 30 minutes.


This isn't my picture, but I found it online and it looks very similar to the houska I make. It makes me hungry just looking at it!

 

[elrohwen]

And next, here''s a simple dinner roll recipe from the book The Bread Bible by Beth Hensperger. She calls them "My Favorite Buttermilk Dinner Rolls". I''ve made them before and will be making them for Thanksgiving this year. Yum!

Buttermilk Dinner Rolls
1 T (package) active dry yeast
Pinch of sugar
1/4 c warm water
1 c warm buttermilk
2 T sugar or honey
Grated zest of 1 lemon
4 T butter, melted
1 large egg
2 t salt
4 - 4 1/2 c flour
egg glaze (egg plus milk beaten)

Combine yeast, water, and pinch of sugar and let it until bubbly.

Combine buttermilk, sugar, zest, egg, and salt with 1 1/2 c flour and yeast mixture and beat until smooth, about 2 minutes. Gradually add the rest of the flour and mix with a wooden spoon. Knead for 4-7 minutes. Let dough raise for 1 1/2 hours.

Gently deflate the dough and turn out. Cut into 16 even pieces and shape into rolls. Cover and let sit for 30 minutes. Brush with egg glaze before baking and bake at 375 degrees for 15-18 minutes.

 

[Mara]

Thanks for the book links !! Freke, is Bread Alone the one choice you''d suggest for a novice bread baker? I would love to get one bread book to start then see where I can go from there.

Given that I only have 10 weeks before I pop out the gestating nugget, I don''t have too much time to get creative, but I will be home for the next 3.5 months after that so what better way to use the time I am not sleeping than by baking bread???

Carbs make everything better, right Jas? hehee.

A few OVEN questions for the experts...what are the oven rules and tips for baking bread? To get that uniform baking, do you put things on the middle rack? How do you keep the bottoms from browning too quickly? I have this problem when I have made the croissants and other things as well in the past. I do use an oven thermometer already.

So far the fave thing I have made is Brioche Cinnamon Rolls from the Dorie Greenspan book..these things are ridiculously rich and the recipe takes about 2 days from start to finish, though I did the cheat and only did two rises, and they still came out amazing.

 

[Mara]

el..thanks for the recipes. for the dinner roll one, how do you shape into rolls ? Just with your hands? I have always wondered how those bagged rolls get such a uniform round shape to them.

 

[elrohwen]

Date: 11/23/2009 10:59:35 AM
Author: Mara
el..thanks for the recipes. for the dinner roll one, how do you shape into rolls ? Just with your hands? I have always wondered how those bagged rolls get such a uniform round shape to them.

Well, I just use my hands. I kind of stretch the dough across the top to make it smooth, and tuck the rough ends underneither. Does that make any sense?

This video kind of shows what I do: just go to the 2:15 mark. http://video.about.com/breadbaking/Dinner-Rolls.htm

But as far as uniformity to rolls you buy, they use machines to shape them. When I worked in food it was one of my favorite things to watch the bread forming machines work

They honestly do it a lot like you would with your hands, but since it''s a machine they come out very uniform. Most small bakeries also have forming machines for rolls and loaves.

 

[Camille]

I liked the simplicity of the video Elrohwen, I love buttermilk rolls!

Lovely loaves Lindsey!
Liang_chi those ''dear little rolls'' must be very fluffy [scalded milk] Yummo.

 

[Jas12]

mara-- shaping rolls: I take a small handful worth of dough, and you don't want to roll it, more like gently stretch it and tuck under while rotating the ball and always keeping the same side up. You get a tight, smooth ball with a seam like thing at the bottom where the bread will bake. It takes some pracitce and some finess, but it's not hard.
Google an instructional vid to get a better idea, kinda hard to explain

ETA: just saw that you already got shaping instructions--oops

 

[Octavia]

Oven temperature -- most ovens aren't exactly calibrated, so if your baked goods consistently don't come out properly, use an oven-safe thermometer to see what the actual temperature is and adjust the recipe temperature accordingly. Also, let the oven preheat for longer than the time it takes to beep. I've read that it should preheat an hour for best results, but I usually just let it go an extra 10-15 minutes after it beeps.

If you're going to bake a lot of rustic breads, boules, baguettes, etc. and don't have a baking stone, it's pretty essential. I've got the pizza stone from Williams-Sonoma and it's fantastic. It gives the crusts a crispiness that you can't really get otherwise. You don't have to take it out of the oven when you're not using it, either -- just put your cookie sheets or whatever right on top of it. I actually think it helps with heat distribution (and thus, even cooking) in my oven because the whole stone heats to the same temperature and it cuts down on heat currents.

If you click the "Baker's Banter" link below the photo in this soft white roll recipe you can see in photos how the baker shapes the rolls. Sometimes seeing it in photos rather than words is helpful!

 

[fleur-de-lis]

What a great idea, especially right before the holidays! Mara, I do have a very easy, quite fool-proof dinner roll recipe (but lazy ole'' me lets the bread maker do the knead and first rise, does that count?), so if you like I can go find it and enter it here for you.

Date: 11/22/2009 9:57:45 PM
Author: Mara



MC...yeah I need to find a nice consistently warm area for the rises, in our new house the kitchen doesn''t get as warm as our old place, so I have had a harder time finding a warm area for a rise. I didn''t think of running the dryer.

As another option (and the old-school way to do it), the method I learned in home ec back in junior high works really well: fill a large bowl half-full with hot, steamy water and place a rack on it; on top of the rack place your dough, already in the shape/form/pan you wish to use; cover the whole shebang with a thick, clean kitchen towel. A perfect warm, moist environment will form under the towel! I often toss a kitchen thermometer under there as well, and will take a peek just to be sure it''s still in range. If it''s getting cool, I just add a little more hot water halfway through to bring the under-towel environment back for that last rise. Hope this helps!

 

[soocool]

The bread I make in the bread machine comes out great. Earlier this month DD and I made Bread of the Dead using the bread machine to make the dough and then we shaped it and baked in the oven. It tasted great but looked a little too brown.

So my question to the experts is does it make a difference when baking bread if your oven is electric or gas?

 

[Camille]

No expert here but an avid for sure....I honestly don''t see major differences, as long as both sources are calibrated correctly.
Gas def heats/cools faster but the issue w/indoor pollution still scares me. After using/abusing a few, I use electric at home [and convection] for many things.

 

[Octavia]

Date: 11/23/2009 1:27:01 PM
Author: fleur-de-lis

Date: 11/22/2009 9:57:45 PM

Author: Mara





MC...yeah I need to find a nice consistently warm area for the rises, in our new house the kitchen doesn't get as warm as our old place, so I have had a harder time finding a warm area for a rise. I didn't think of running the dryer.

As another option (and the old-school way to do it), the method I learned in home ec back in junior high works really well: fill a large bowl half-full with hot, steamy water and place a rack on it; on top of the rack place your dough, already in the shape/form/pan you wish to use; cover the whole shebang with a thick, clean kitchen towel. A perfect warm, moist environment will form under the towel! I often toss a kitchen thermometer under there as well, and will take a peek just to be sure it's still in range. If it's getting cool, I just add a little more hot water halfway through to bring the under-towel environment back for that last rise. Hope this helps!

If you have a gas stove, you can also just throw the bowl of rising dough into the oven (when it's turned off, of course). The pilot light will usually provide enough warmth. With an electric oven, turn your oven temp to the lowest setting for about 2-3 minutes, then turn it off and put the bowl of dough inside. In slightly warmer weather, even just leaving the light on inside an electric stove will provide enough warmth for a good rise. For the second rise, I find that putting it on top of the preheating oven is usually good enough.

 

[elrohwen]

Date: 11/23/2009 2:45:27 PM
Author: Octavia

If you have a gas stove, you can also just throw the bowl of rising dough into the oven (when it''s turned off, of course). The pilot light will usually provide enough warmth. With an electric oven, turn your oven temp to the lowest setting for about 2-3 minutes, then turn it off and put the bowl of dough inside. In slightly warmer weather, even just leaving the light on inside an electric stove will provide enough warmth for a good rise. For the second rise, I find that putting it on top of the preheating oven is usually good enough.

Octavia, I''ve always done the rising-on-a-preheating-oven trick, but never knew that the pilot light in the oven would provide enough heat for the first rise! So cool! I will absolutely be doing that from now on. I always grew up with electric, so maybe that''s why I''ve never heard this trick.