Swap-A-Roo = Not for You?

[armywife13]

MF~ I do not know you or JbEG. I would like to share some thoughts with you. Whenever I have looked at OEC diamonds, they are graded by EGL. Many times these diamonds are already set into rings. I believe the issue really stems from your SO making a hard and fast decision to take a discount on the stone, rather than looking into the other options that were presented to him. It placed everyone involved into a box. At that point, any hope of working with the vendor became more difficult. You have been give options, again, today. You still have the opportunity to make this right, if you so desire. Your SO seems to be driving this situation. Have you spoken with him about your preferences? Vendors do make mistakes. How they handle them is very important regarding their customer service. I think you have been presented with some viable options. I believe it is time for you to become involved in the process of choosing your stone. It doesn't sit well with me when someone tells me that 'this" is what "we" are going to do. My DH wouldn't do that to me, nor I to him. Your SO may be a nice guy, but he is not taking your feelings into consideration on this matter, IMO.


^^^This. I understand there were frustrations on both sides and the situation is unfortunate, but JBEG is trying to make things right the best they can. If you are unhappy with the diamond, then you and your SO should take them up on their offer. I think that all of the offers are more than fair. If your SO refuses to work with them to resolve this, then to me it appears the blame ultimately falls on him.(not trying to sound mean, I understand he is upset, but it appears he is hindering a resolution)

 

[Haven]

Why would anyone, especially a PSer, ever remotely consider a diamond , especially an expensive one, without a report from GIA or AGS? (melee exempted of course)
And if I was a vendor I'd never express a preference for EGL grading here on PS.

Because old cuts don't tend to come with them, GIA doesn't grade unmounted stones, and getting a stone out of a valuable antique setting can be a real kitch-bitty of a job. EGL does grade mounted, and has a rep for being good on old cuts (whereas GIA just calls them "round brilliants" and dings their cut grade.) It's a specialty field, it has its own logic.

None of those reasons would get me to part my money.
Customers can insist the stone be removed and sent to GIA.
IMHO, It's GIA/AGS report or no sale for any diamond of worth, but hey, people vary, customers and vendors.
Erica, wouldn't it be great if your business became a leader in selling only GIA/AGS graded stones?
You will never again have this controversy, and be seen as part of the solution instead of part of this scandalous lab-grading-standards-not-being-standard problem.
You could tactfully explain on the front page of your site the explanation.

My stone was not graded by a lab when my jeweler got it, so I had him send it to GIA. It seems like a serious customer should be able to make this small request of a jeweler, especially if the stone is unset. Mine said "We'll send it wherever you want" and I chose GIA. It really wasn't a big deal, and like Kenny, I now prefer to know the GIA grading over anything else.

 

[Haven]

Oh my goodness. I replied before I read all the hullaboo going on with JbEG and Maplefemme. My last post is not a response to that issue at all, I'm not interested in getting involved in it.

The only thing I will say is that even if most antique stones are graded by EGL, I don't understand why it would be difficult for a customer who is seriously interested in a stone to have it sent off to GIA for a grading. I hope to buy another antique stone in the future, and if it only has an EGL cert, I'll happily pay for GIA to take a looky-loo. And I don't think I'd work with a jeweler who wasn't willing to do that for me.

 

[maplefemme]

Risingsun,

I see your points, thank you for offering another perspective. I made every choice about this ring and my SO went along with it to make me happy. I sourced the stone and convinced him it was a sound purchase buying an in-house graded stone online from a vendor out of their house in a foreign country. He took a big leap of faith in agreeing but he did so because he wants me to be happy and trusted me when I said they had a good reputation, well it backfired.
Vendors make mistakes, yes, but we were told the other options available before he made his choice, it wasn't uneducated, it was based on what we were offered and we didn't haggle because we were told this was the best offer that they could do for us.
Now their best offer is better, but it wasn't offered when it mattered, it's after we settled on one of the other options offered to us.
JbEG's offer to us now is not unappreciated by me, sincerely. However, the other stone is set in a custom setting now. If we would have been given the same offer initially, it would have been financially attainable, we would have excepted and the setting would have been made to fit that stone.

If I'm not happy with this stone he'll resolve it to make me happy and source a different stone with a vendor he trusts.

 

[Laila619]

MF~ I do not know you or JbEG. I would like to share some thoughts with you. Whenever I have looked at OEC diamonds, they are graded by EGL. Many times these diamonds are already set into rings. I believe the issue really stems from your SO making a hard and fast decision to take a discount on the stone, rather than looking into the other options that were presented to him. It placed everyone involved into a box. At that point, any hope of working with the vendor became more difficult. You have been give options, again, today. You still have the opportunity to make this right, if you so desire. Your SO seems to be driving this situation. Have you spoken with him about your preferences? Vendors do make mistakes. How they handle them is very important regarding their customer service. I think you have been presented with some viable options. I believe it is time for you to become involved in the process of choosing your stone. It doesn't sit well with me when someone tells me that 'this" is what "we" are going to do. My DH wouldn't do that to me, nor I to him. Your SO may be a nice guy, but he is not taking your feelings into consideration on this matter, IMO.

Yes, I agree. I am positive your SO is a great guy, Maplefemme, but you have a right to have some say in what to do about all this too. Just my opinion. It sounds like you're stuck with it now because SO won't agree to anything else.

In any case, I truly hope you love it and it becomes a moot point!

 

[armywife13]

Risingsun,

I see your points, thank you for offering another perspective. I made every choice about this ring and my SO went along with it to make me happy. I sourced the stone and convinced him it was a sound purchase buying an in-house graded stone online from a vendor out of their house in a foreign country. He took a big leap of faith in agreeing but he did so because he wants me to be happy and trusted me when I said they had a good reputation, well it backfired.
Vendors make mistakes, yes, but we were told the other options available before he made his choice, it wasn't uneducated, it was based on what we were offered and we didn't haggle because we were told this was the best offer that they could do for us.
Now their best offer is better, but it wasn't offered when it mattered, it's after we settled on one of the other options offered to us.
JbEG's offer to us now is not unappreciated by me, sincerely. However, the other stone is set in a custom setting now. If we would have been given the same offer initially, it would have been financially attainable, we would have excepted and the setting would have been made to fit that stone.

If I'm not happy with this stone he'll resolve it to make me happy and source a different stone with a vendor he trusts.

That is understandable, and I understand it must have been very frustrating. I wish you the best and hope you love your ring. I am sure it will look gorgeous!

 

[maplefemme]

Oh my goodness. I replied before I read all the hullaboo going on with JbEG and Maplefemme. My last post is not a response to that issue at all, I'm not interested in getting involved in it.

The only thing I will say is that even if most antique stones are graded by EGL, I don't understand why it would be difficult for a customer who is seriously interested in a stone to have it sent off to GIA for a grading. I hope to buy another antique stone in the future, and if it only has an EGL cert, I'll happily pay for GIA to take a looky-loo. And I don't think I'd work with a jeweler who wasn't willing to do that for me.

I agree, Haven. Next time I will ask for a GIA first, it would protect both vendor and buyer from numerous issues.
Maybe it would be best to do a seperate thread for discussing grading of antique cuts...

 

[ericad]

I'm not sure yet specifically what Grace and MF discussed regarding GIA, but the fact of the matter is that we don't have an account at GIA because we only used them for a brief time and now use EGL. The GIA account we used belongs to our jeweler in NY (he took JbEG stones to GIA on our behalf), and since he was not involved with this particular transaction, it wouldn't have been appropriate for us to use his GIA account for this purpose. It's not our normal practice to maintain lab accounts in order to send stones in for clients. For example, we also don't have an account with AGS, so if a customer asked us to send a stone to AGS on their behalf, we would also have to decline or scramble to open a vendor account.

It's not a matter of us refusing to do it, we simply didn't have a process in place to be able to send a customer's stone in to GIA in Carlsbad on the fly like that. When Victor offered to do it, the problem was solved. Had MF told us the GIA report was a deal breaker, we would have opened up an account and sent in the stone, but instead Victor took care of it and we didn't give it another thought.

These are small details of our business that we wouldn't necessarily share, so it's likely that Grace was trying to be discreet/vague when explaining why we couldn't send the stone on her behalf.

 

[maplefemme]

I'm not sure yet specifically what Grace and MF discussed regarding GIA, but the fact of the matter is that we don't have an account at GIA because we only used them for a brief time and now use EGL. The GIA account we used belongs to our jeweler in NY (he took JbEG stones to GIA on our behalf), and since he was not involved with this particular transaction, it wouldn't have been appropriate for us to use his GIA account for this purpose. It's not our normal practice to maintain lab accounts in order to send stones in for clients. For example, we also don't have an account with AGS, so if a customer asked us to send a stone to AGS on their behalf, we would also have to decline or scramble to open a vendor account.

It's not a matter of us refusing to do it, we simply didn't have a process in place to be able to send a customer's stone in to GIA in Carlsbad on the fly like that. When Victor offered to do it, the problem was solved. Had MF told us the GIA report was a deal breaker, we would have opened up an account and sent in the stone, but instead Victor took care of it and we didn't give it another thought.

These are small details of our business that we wouldn't necessarily share, so it's likely that Grace was trying to be discreet/vague when explaining why we couldn't send the stone on her behalf.

I actually didn't know this...
When I asked Grace a couple months into the layaway if she could send it to GIA for me in a couple months time when the stone was unset from the original owner's ring and paid for; she said yes no problem.
I asked Grace to have GIA forward it to Victor after grading. I already asked GIA if that was possible and they said yes. Grace said she wasn't sure GIA would send it to a 3rd party and I didnt want to put her in an uncomfortable position so Victor said he'd take care of everything so it worked out and was never an issue.
I only wanted the GIA for insurance purposes, not to question your grading, I had faith in that and was quite surprised actually when I heard of the discrepancy.

But all is done now, moving forward positively...

 

[sapphirering]

I really didn't want to get involved, seeing as I'm a newbie and don't normally post too much, but I''ll just butt in anyway.

I don't know the vendor and have never done any business with them. However, from my perspective as someone who has done a normal amount of purchases with jewelry stores (both PS and non-PS vendors), I really don't think jbEG did anything wrong in this case. So yes, their grading was way off from GIA's grading, but they offered a return policy with a certain window which the buyer opted not to utilize. Why should they bear the burden of the purchaser's cost savings? (Correct me if I'm wrong here. I'm assuming that Maplefemme had the option of returning the stone for full purchasing price if she didn't like the stone.) So, the onus was on the purchaser to make sure that the stone was to her liking before she commissioned another person to make the setting for it. Just because jbEG gets nothing but raves on PS doesn't mean that due diligence isn't required on the purchaser's behalf. I know that Maplefemme has freely admitted that.

Regarding jbEG's lowering the sales price of the potential replacement stone a few months after the fact... again, I really don't see anything shady or uncouth in that. bgEG is a BUSINESS, whose goal is to make a PROFIT. Yes, customer service is important. But, business landscape changes daily and they need to make decisions on how to price their inventory based on how their forecasted demand will be... before I go too far in my business lingo, what I'm trying to say is that jbEG can choose to jack up the sales price of that stone to $20k or lowball to $3k, and in my view it has zero bearing on this particular transaction. Maplefemme and her SO could have decided to return the stone, and they didn't. jbEG really does not owe them a replacement stone at the price that Maplefemme deemed fair. What is fair? Is it fair to assume that jbEG does not negotiate on pricing when Maplefemme has never asked whether the pricing is negotiable? I know that her SO doesn't like to haggle- then don't and accept the pricing as is, but don't complain later. I personally feel that it is not fair to do Monday night quarterbacking in this case.

As I'm reading this thread, I personally thing the crux of this matter is that Maplefemme's SO ended up spending way more on this ring that he had originally budgeted, and he is sore and upset about it. I think this is why he seems so hostile to jbEG. I know personally if I had to spend more than twice my budget so that my fiance would be happy with her engagement ring, it wouldn't take much for me to be completely upset when something goes wrong. I don't mean to sound harsh (but I know I'm probably coming across as such), but I just want to chip in my 2 cents. There were a lot of posts about how jbEG misrepresented the color grade and how could they, etc. Well, this is why there's a return policy. THAT was the way out.

I am very, very sorry that all this happened, Maplefemme. And I don't know you or your SO so my take from the situation could be way, way off, and I totally understand if you're like who is this person to say this to me? I wish for your sake that the ring will turn out beautifully (and seeing VC's recent work on this forum, I have every reason to believe so.)

 

[armywife13]

I really didn't want to get involved, seeing as I'm a newbie and don't normally post too much, but I''ll just butt in anyway.

I don't know the vendor and have never done any business with them. However, from my perspective as someone who has done a normal amount of purchases with jewelry stores (both PS and non-PS vendors), I really don't think jbEG did anything wrong in this case. So yes, their grading was way off from GIA's grading, but they offered a return policy with a certain window which the buyer opted not to utilize. Why should they bear the burden of the purchaser's cost savings? (Correct me if I'm wrong here. I'm assuming that Maplefemme had the option of returning the stone for full purchasing price if she didn't like the stone.) So, the onus was on the purchaser to make sure that the stone was to her liking before she commissioned another person to make the setting for it. Just because jbEG gets nothing but raves on PS doesn't mean that due diligence isn't required on the purchaser's behalf. I know that Maplefemme has freely admitted that.

Regarding jbEG's lowering the sales price of the potential replacement stone a few months after the fact... again, I really don't see anything shady or uncouth in that. bgEG is a BUSINESS, whose goal is to make a PROFIT. Yes, customer service is important. But, business landscape changes daily and they need to make decisions on how to price their inventory based on how their forecasted demand will be... before I go too far in my business lingo, what I'm trying to say is that jbEG can choose to jack up the sales price of that stone to $20k or lowball to $3k, and in my view it has zero bearing on this particular transaction. Maplefemme and her SO could have decided to return the stone, and they didn't. jbEG really does not owe them a replacement stone at the price that Maplefemme deemed fair. What is fair? Is it fair to assume that jbEG does not negotiate on pricing when Maplefemme has never asked whether the pricing is negotiable? I know that her SO doesn't like to haggle- then don't and accept the pricing as is, but don't complain later. I personally feel that it is not fair to do Monday night quarterbacking in this case.

As I'm reading this thread, I personally thing the crux of this matter is that Maplefemme's SO ended up spending way more on this ring that he had originally budgeted, and he is sore and upset about it. I think this is why he seems so hostile to jbEG. I know personally if I had to spend more than twice my budget so that my fiance would be happy with her engagement ring, it wouldn't take much for me to be completely upset when something goes wrong. I don't mean to sound harsh (but I know I'm probably coming across as such), but I just want to chip in my 2 cents. There were a lot of posts about how jbEG misrepresented the color grade and how could they, etc. Well, this is why there's a return policy. THAT was the way out.

I am very, very sorry that all this happened, Maplefemme. And I don't know you or your SO so my take from the situation could be way, way off, and I totally understand if you're like who is this person to say this to me? I wish for your sake that the ring will turn out beautifully (and seeing VC's recent work on this forum, I have every reason to believe so.)

Well said.

 

[missy]

I really didn't want to get involved, seeing as I'm a newbie and don't normally post too much, but I''ll just butt in anyway.

I don't know the vendor and have never done any business with them. However, from my perspective as someone who has done a normal amount of purchases with jewelry stores (both PS and non-PS vendors), I really don't think jbEG did anything wrong in this case. So yes, their grading was way off from GIA's grading, but they offered a return policy with a certain window which the buyer opted not to utilize. Why should they bear the burden of the purchaser's cost savings? (Correct me if I'm wrong here. I'm assuming that Maplefemme had the option of returning the stone for full purchasing price if she didn't like the stone.) So, the onus was on the purchaser to make sure that the stone was to her liking before she commissioned another person to make the setting for it. Just because jbEG gets nothing but raves on PS doesn't mean that due diligence isn't required on the purchaser's behalf. I know that Maplefemme has freely admitted that.

Regarding jbEG's lowering the sales price of the potential replacement stone a few months after the fact... again, I really don't see anything shady or uncouth in that. bgEG is a BUSINESS, whose goal is to make a PROFIT. Yes, customer service is important. But, business landscape changes daily and they need to make decisions on how to price their inventory based on how their forecasted demand will be... before I go too far in my business lingo, what I'm trying to say is that jbEG can choose to jack up the sales price of that stone to $20k or lowball to $3k, and in my view it has zero bearing on this particular transaction. Maplefemme and her SO could have decided to return the stone, and they didn't. jbEG really does not owe them a replacement stone at the price that Maplefemme deemed fair. What is fair? Is it fair to assume that jbEG does not negotiate on pricing when Maplefemme has never asked whether the pricing is negotiable? I know that her SO doesn't like to haggle- then don't and accept the pricing as is, but don't complain later. I personally feel that it is not fair to do Monday night quarterbacking in this case.

As I'm reading this thread, I personally thing the crux of this matter is that Maplefemme's SO ended up spending way more on this ring that he had originally budgeted, and he is sore and upset about it. I think this is why he seems so hostile to jbEG. I know personally if I had to spend more than twice my budget so that my fiance would be happy with her engagement ring, it wouldn't take much for me to be completely upset when something goes wrong. I don't mean to sound harsh (but I know I'm probably coming across as such), but I just want to chip in my 2 cents. There were a lot of posts about how jbEG misrepresented the color grade and how could they, etc. Well, this is why there's a return policy. THAT was the way out.

I am very, very sorry that all this happened, Maplefemme. And I don't know you or your SO so my take from the situation could be way, way off, and I totally understand if you're like who is this person to say this to me? I wish for your sake that the ring will turn out beautifully (and seeing VC's recent work on this forum, I have every reason to believe so.)

Well said.

Except that was not what happened.
There was *no* option of return since maplefemme and her FI did layaway for the diamond. So they were not able to return it when they found out that GIA graded it way below the vendor's assessment of color. *That* was the problem.

 

[armywife13]

Going purely off of what was stated in this thread, Erica said they offered a refund, free consignment, exchange, or upgrade. MP stated that her SO was frustrated and did not want to do anymore business or transactions with them. Now I was not part of the actual conversations, so I do not know for sure, but to me it sounds like there were options available. But in reality, all we can do is speculate after the fact because only MP and the ladies from jbeg know what happened and what can be done if anything to resolve this. I was simply agreeing with Sapphirering that SO was upset about the money in addition to the diamond grading and that might be why the options were not considered.

 

[missy]

Going purely off of what was stated in this thread, Erica said they offered a refund, free consignment, exchange, or upgrade. MP stated that her SO was frustrated and did not want to do anymore business or transactions with them. Now I was not part of the actual conversations, so I do not know for sure, but to me it sounds like there were options available. But in reality, all we can do is speculate after the fact because only MP and the ladies from jbeg know what happened and what can be done if anything to resolve this. I was simply agreeing with Sapphirering that SO was upset about the money in addition to the diamond grading and that might be why the options were not considered.

Armywife, your facts are wrong. Erica and Grace have a no return policy for layaway. "layaway purchases being final sale" as per Erica on page 6. So I repeat, Maplefemme and her FI did not have *that* option available to them and that was precisely the problem. The color was misrepresented and not by a little and they had unfortunately a no return policy for layaway. Period.

I love JbEG. They have gorgeous jewelry and they are lovely people. However, I totally feel for maplefemme and her FI. It is an unfortunate situation and I hope that the ring will be beyond their dreams and that this whole matter will be moot.

 

[yssie]

I'm really surprised by some fo the posts regarding maplefemme's situation.

Some of you might know that I'm having a ring remade because I'm unhappy with what my previous (very highly lauded here on PS) vendor produced. My new vendor is adapting his process to my needs by letting me into the procedure, and giving me final decision-making rights throughout, so that if I don't like something I see along the way we can change it before it's too late.

Even longtime PSers aren't infallible, and it's easy to overlook safeguards when the siren's calls of high praise and good reputation beckon with such urgency. It isn't that one party is in the right and the other is in the wrong, or even that one is moreright or wrong than the other - it's that maplefemme is, for whatever reason, a customer in a position that she doesn't want to be in, at the moment with no terribly promising options. I can sympathise with that, whether or not it's "her fault" (and I don't think it is, nor do I think JbEG behaved egregiously - it sounds to me like a case of the wrong combination of vendor/customer/merchandise...)

 

[maplefemme]

I really didn't want to get involved, seeing as I'm a newbie and don't normally post too much, but I''ll just butt in anyway.

I don't know the vendor and have never done any business with them. However, from my perspective as someone who has done a normal amount of purchases with jewelry stores (both PS and non-PS vendors), I really don't think jbEG did anything wrong in this case. So yes, their grading was way off from GIA's grading, but they offered a return policy with a certain window which the buyer opted not to utilize. Why should they bear the burden of the purchaser's cost savings? (Correct me if I'm wrong here. I'm assuming that Maplefemme had the option of returning the stone for full purchasing price if she didn't like the stone.) So, the onus was on the purchaser to make sure that the stone was to her liking before she commissioned another person to make the setting for it. Just because jbEG gets nothing but raves on PS doesn't mean that due diligence isn't required on the purchaser's behalf. I know that Maplefemme has freely admitted that.

They do not offer a return policy for consignment/layaway purchases, so no, I could not return the stone for the full purchase price, it would be against JbEG's policy as Erica from JbEG has clearly stated here, so I have to correct you on those assumptions. But to be fair to you, you do not know the vendor or their policies so you weren't to know.

Regarding jbEG's lowering the sales price of the potential replacement stone a few months after the fact... again, I really don't see anything shady or uncouth in that

It wasn't a few months, but you are correct in that they can charge whatever they wish for as much profit they feel they can get.

. bgEG is a BUSINESS, whose goal is to make a PROFIT. Yes, customer service is important. But, business landscape changes daily and they need to make decisions on how to price their inventory based on how their forecasted demand will be... before I go too far in my business lingo, what I'm trying to say is that jbEG can choose to jack up the sales price of that stone to $20k or lowball to $3k, and in my view it has zero bearing on this particular transaction. Maplefemme and her SO could have decided to return the stone, and they didn't.

Again, not true, it's very import you know that facts to make an accurate statement of them, with all due respect.

jbEG really does not owe them a replacement stone at the price that Maplefemme deemed fair. What is fair? Is it fair to assume that jbEG does not negotiate on pricing when Maplefemme has never asked whether the pricing is negotiable? I know that her SO doesn't like to haggle- then don't and accept the pricing as is, but don't complain later. I personally feel that it is not fair to do Monday night quarterbacking in this case.

As I'm reading this thread, I personally thing the crux of this matter is that Maplefemme's SO ended up spending way more on this ring that he had originally budgeted, and he is sore and upset about it. I think this is why he seems so hostile to jbEG. I know personally if I had to spend more than twice my budget so that my fiance would be happy with her engagement ring, it wouldn't take much for me to be completely upset when something goes wrong. I don't mean to sound harsh (but I know I'm probably coming across as such), but I just want to chip in my 2 cents. There were a lot of posts about how jbEG misrepresented the color grade and how could they, etc. Well, this is why there's a return policy. THAT was the way out.

You don't sound harsh, just unaware of the facts and making great assumptions on not only JbEG's policies, but now also on my SO's feelings. He happily agreed to expand his initial budget, he did not want a cheaper setting for it either and chose to spend over $6,000 on it as opposed to a simpler setting that I would have been more than happy with for less.
He chose to increase his budget, no one forced him, emotionally or otherwise...trust me, no one forces that man to do anything he doesn't want to

I am very, very sorry that all this happened, Maplefemme. And I don't know you or your SO so my take from the situation could be way, way off, and I totally understand if you're like who is this person to say this to me? I wish for your sake that the ring will turn out beautifully (and seeing VC's recent work on this forum, I have every reason to believe so.)

Thank you for your well wishes...
I would never describe JbEG as shady or uncouth, as you worded above, it's not how I feel about them at all.
JbEG changed some of their ways of doing business so this doesn't happen again, I respect that. I'm a more educated buyer also as a result.
Victor does beautiful work, yes, I'm very much looking forward to seeing his creation. He's been a pleasure and the rings he's created for other PSers have all been such works of art, I couldn't agree with you more.

 

[armywife13]

Hi all,

I know this is a thread jack, but since we're the vendor in question I felt it prudent to post, as there are 2 sides to every transaction.

The ring in question was graded internally by me, as well as by 2 respected jewelers. We grade in accordance with EGL standards because this is more or less the industry standard with antique cuts. We are very transparent about this. Maplefemme asked us to send the stone to GIA, which we happily did, and we were very surprised at the grading. We disagree with it, but it is what it is. We feel that with lower colored stones, EGL is more consistent. For uncerted stones, we do our best to accurately represent them, and we offer an unconditional inspection period for buyers to utilize independent appraisers. In the case of layaways, however, this inspection period is not available.

Because this was a layaway piece (and a lengthy layaway at that) and a consignment sale, a refund was not an option. At the time, we had no other stones of comparable size for the price they had paid. To be frank, the original price they paid for this stone was very good even given the lower GIA grading. The discounted price they chose in order to keep it makes it a steal. I only say this because it simply wasn't possible to find a similar sized stone, whiter, for the same price. We couldn't even come close, and we did try. Obviously, though, that doesn't change the fact that the diamond didn't grade as expected.

As for the stone that maplefemme liked that later went on sale, she certainly had (and continues to have) the option of trading her diamond toward this or any other piece in our inventory. I believe it was the 2.67ct OEC, and for that stone even the sale price greatly exceeds the purchase price of her diamond. But we did offer her fiance this option and he informed us via email that he preferred a partial credit to keep the stone they bought, and that spending any additional money for a different stone was not an option (he was VERY clear about this). Off the top of my head, the price of the 2.67 was $7k+ over what they originally paid for their stone. He expressed no interest in considering this option, so we never got into pricing or negotiations, and many weeks later, after this transaction was closed, we marked it on sale by sheer coincidence.

In any case, had we known how unhappy she was with her diamond we would have continued working with them to trade it in for something more suitable. Last we heard, she was thrilled that her fiance accepted the partial refund because she loved the stone no matter what the papers said. So we are quite stunned to hear that she's so unhappy with it - truly it's the first we've heard about it.

As for representation of uncerted stones, please note that our experience with Maplefemme and GIA has made a strong impression on us. Since her transaction, we've implemented a policy that all JbEG-owned loose diamonds will be sent to EGL, and all consignment goods are required to include either a lab report or an independent appraisal before we will accept it. We take these things very seriously - we're human and make mistakes, but we've already taken measures to ensure that this type of situation doesn't happen again, not as a result of this thread, but was done months ago out of a desire to constantly improve our business and our clients' experience.

Maplefemme, we would be happy to take it back as a trade in towards something else from our inventory, and will honor the sale price on the 2.67 if that's the stone you want - we would have happily done this 2 months ago but we were told it's not an option for you both. In the end, we want all of our clients to be thrilled with the pieces they buy from us (and NEVER EVER "stuck with" anything) and we will work with you to achieve this. When all of this happened, we told your fiance that we would do ANYTHING to make this right, and he requested the credit. I'm sorry that you feel you were forced to accept a partial refund, but it was at his request that we did so. We opened the door to resolve the situation, he requested a credit, and we complied. We really thought you were both happy with this resolution, as well as with the diamond.

I do wish you had reached out to us in the weeks following the partial refund, and we would have said the exact same thing to you privately. In any case, do let us know what you want to do.

But what about this that she posted on page 4? If I am incorrect or misinterpreted then I apologize, I am not trying to start a fight. There is no need for that. The point is that there were mistakes on both sides and jbeg has been and is still trying to make it right. Thats all I am going to say on this, so I am going to bow out before things get taken further than they need to.

 

[maplefemme]

I'm really surprised by some fo the posts regarding maplefemme's situation.

Some of you might know that I'm having a ring remade because I'm unhappy with what my previous (very highly lauded here on PS) vendor produced. My new vendor is adapting his process to my needs by letting me into the procedure, and giving me final decision-making rights throughout, so that if I don't like something I see along the way we can change it before it's too late.

Even longtime PSers aren't infallible, and it's easy to overlook safeguards when the siren's calls of high praise and good reputation beckon with such urgency. It isn't that one party is in the right and the other is in the wrong, or even that one is moreright or wrong than the other - it's that maplefemme is, for whatever reason, a customer in a position that she doesn't want to be in, at the moment with no terribly promising options. I can sympathise with that, whether or not it's "her fault" (and I don't think it is, nor do I think JbEG behaved egregiously - it sounds to me like a case of the wrong combination of vendor/customer/merchandise...)

Thank you Yssie, I agree with you on all counts, very well said...

 

[Kaleigh]

I am sorry for all that has gone on. Yes two sides. I hope all works out. I can't wait for pics!!!

I am a huge fan of OEC's and OMC's. Have a new ( to me ) ring posted in SMTB..

I have never ever seen a GIA cert for these stones. EGL is by and large the accepted lab for them. It's the standard, right or wrong, but that's the way it is..

 

[armywife13]

I'm really surprised by some fo the posts regarding maplefemme's situation.

Some of you might know that I'm having a ring remade because I'm unhappy with what my previous (very highly lauded here on PS) vendor produced. My new vendor is adapting his process to my needs by letting me into the procedure, and giving me final decision-making rights throughout, so that if I don't like something I see along the way we can change it before it's too late.

Even longtime PSers aren't infallible, and it's easy to overlook safeguards when the siren's calls of high praise and good reputation beckon with such urgency. It isn't that one party is in the right and the other is in the wrong, or even that one is moreright or wrong than the other - it's that maplefemme is, for whatever reason, a customer in a position that she doesn't want to be in, at the moment with no terribly promising options. I can sympathise with that, whether or not it's "her fault" (and I don't think it is, nor do I think JbEG behaved egregiously - it sounds to me like a case of the wrong combination of vendor/customer/merchandise...)

Thank you Yssie, I agree with you on all counts, very well said...

I agree with what Yessie's said. MP, I apologize if anything I said came off as rude or was incorrect. I truly hope you do enjoy your ring, in the end that is what matters.

 

[maplefemme]

Going purely off of what was stated in this thread, Erica said they offered a refund, free consignment, exchange, or upgrade. MP stated that her SO was frustrated and did not want to do anymore business or transactions with them. Now I was not part of the actual conversations, so I do not know for sure, but to me it sounds like there were options available. But in reality, all we can do is speculate after the fact because only MP and the ladies from jbeg know what happened and what can be done if anything to resolve this. I was simply agreeing with Sapphirering that SO was upset about the money in addition to the diamond grading and that might be why the options were not considered.

Armywife, your facts are wrong. Erica and Grace have a no return policy for layaway. "layaway purchases being final sale" as per Erica on page 6. So I repeat, Maplefemme and her FI did not have *that* option available to them and that was precisely the problem. The color was misrepresented and not by a little and they had unfortunately a no return policy for layaway. Period.

I love JbEG. They have gorgeous jewelry and they are lovely people. However, I totally feel for maplefemme and her FI. It is an unfortunate situation and I hope that the ring will be beyond their dreams and that this whole matter will be moot.

Yes, Armywife, Missy is correct, thank you Missy for clarifying. Armywife, I don't want it to break down into an argument either, it really doesn't have to and I really respect differing opinions. My SO isn't upset about the money, he willingly changed his budget. He was upset about events after.
Free consignment means listing my custom made Victor Canera ring with the stone set in it, as I'm told by Grace, and I'm sorry I cannot do that. Victor and I worked hard on designing that ring, I'm not going to sell it to someone else, even though I appreciated the offer.

 

[maplefemme]

I'm really surprised by some fo the posts regarding maplefemme's situation.

Some of you might know that I'm having a ring remade because I'm unhappy with what my previous (very highly lauded here on PS) vendor produced. My new vendor is adapting his process to my needs by letting me into the procedure, and giving me final decision-making rights throughout, so that if I don't like something I see along the way we can change it before it's too late.

Even longtime PSers aren't infallible, and it's easy to overlook safeguards when the siren's calls of high praise and good reputation beckon with such urgency. It isn't that one party is in the right and the other is in the wrong, or even that one is moreright or wrong than the other - it's that maplefemme is, for whatever reason, a customer in a position that she doesn't want to be in, at the moment with no terribly promising options. I can sympathise with that, whether or not it's "her fault" (and I don't think it is, nor do I think JbEG behaved egregiously - it sounds to me like a case of the wrong combination of vendor/customer/merchandise...)

Thank you Yssie, I agree with you on all counts, very well said...

I agree with what Yessie's said. MP, I apologize if anything I said came off as rude or was incorrect. I truly hope you do enjoy your ring, in the end that is what matters.

No worries, you never came off like that at all! As I just wrote, I don't mind differing opinions. It's why I like PS so much, we all have our own ideas and thoughts and it wouldn't be the same place if we couldn't speak our minds openly

 

[armywife13]

Going purely off of what was stated in this thread, Erica said they offered a refund, free consignment, exchange, or upgrade. MP stated that her SO was frustrated and did not want to do anymore business or transactions with them. Now I was not part of the actual conversations, so I do not know for sure, but to me it sounds like there were options available. But in reality, all we can do is speculate after the fact because only MP and the ladies from jbeg know what happened and what can be done if anything to resolve this. I was simply agreeing with Sapphirering that SO was upset about the money in addition to the diamond grading and that might be why the options were not considered.

Armywife, your facts are wrong. Erica and Grace have a no return policy for layaway. "layaway purchases being final sale" as per Erica on page 6. So I repeat, Maplefemme and her FI did not have *that* option available to them and that was precisely the problem. The color was misrepresented and not by a little and they had unfortunately a no return policy for layaway. Period.

I love JbEG. They have gorgeous jewelry and they are lovely people. However, I totally feel for maplefemme and her FI. It is an unfortunate situation and I hope that the ring will be beyond their dreams and that this whole matter will be moot.

Yes, Armywife, Missy is correct, thank you Missy for clarifying. Armywife, I don't want it to break down into an argument either, it really doesn't have to and I really respect differing opinions. My SO isn't upset about the money, he willingly changed his budget. He was upset about events after.
Free consignment means listing my custom made Victor Canera ring with the stone set in it, as I'm told by Grace, and I'm sorry I cannot do that. Victor and I worked hard on designing that ring, I'm not going to sell it to someone else, even though I appreciated the offer.

That is understandable. I cannot wait to see your ring, I bet it will be gorgeous.

 

[sapphirering]

I really didn't want to get involved, seeing as I'm a newbie and don't normally post too much, but I''ll just butt in anyway.

I don't know the vendor and have never done any business with them. However, from my perspective as someone who has done a normal amount of purchases with jewelry stores (both PS and non-PS vendors), I really don't think jbEG did anything wrong in this case. So yes, their grading was way off from GIA's grading, but they offered a return policy with a certain window which the buyer opted not to utilize. Why should they bear the burden of the purchaser's cost savings? (Correct me if I'm wrong here. I'm assuming that Maplefemme had the option of returning the stone for full purchasing price if she didn't like the stone.) So, the onus was on the purchaser to make sure that the stone was to her liking before she commissioned another person to make the setting for it. Just because jbEG gets nothing but raves on PS doesn't mean that due diligence isn't required on the purchaser's behalf. I know that Maplefemme has freely admitted that.

They do not offer a return policy for consignment/layaway purchases, so no, I could not return the stone for the full purchase price, it would be against JbEG's policy as Erica from JbEG has clearly stated here, so I have to correct you on those assumptions. But to be fair to you, you do not know the vendor or their policies so you weren't to know.

Regarding jbEG's lowering the sales price of the potential replacement stone a few months after the fact... again, I really don't see anything shady or uncouth in that

It wasn't a few months, but you are correct in that they can charge whatever they wish for as much profit they feel they can get.

. bgEG is a BUSINESS, whose goal is to make a PROFIT. Yes, customer service is important. But, business landscape changes daily and they need to make decisions on how to price their inventory based on how their forecasted demand will be... before I go too far in my business lingo, what I'm trying to say is that jbEG can choose to jack up the sales price of that stone to $20k or lowball to $3k, and in my view it has zero bearing on this particular transaction. Maplefemme and her SO could have decided to return the stone, and they didn't.

Again, not true, it's very import you know that facts to make an accurate statement of them, with all due respect.

jbEG really does not owe them a replacement stone at the price that Maplefemme deemed fair. What is fair? Is it fair to assume that jbEG does not negotiate on pricing when Maplefemme has never asked whether the pricing is negotiable? I know that her SO doesn't like to haggle- then don't and accept the pricing as is, but don't complain later. I personally feel that it is not fair to do Monday night quarterbacking in this case.

As I'm reading this thread, I personally thing the crux of this matter is that Maplefemme's SO ended up spending way more on this ring that he had originally budgeted, and he is sore and upset about it. I think this is why he seems so hostile to jbEG. I know personally if I had to spend more than twice my budget so that my fiance would be happy with her engagement ring, it wouldn't take much for me to be completely upset when something goes wrong. I don't mean to sound harsh (but I know I'm probably coming across as such), but I just want to chip in my 2 cents. There were a lot of posts about how jbEG misrepresented the color grade and how could they, etc. Well, this is why there's a return policy. THAT was the way out.

You don't sound harsh, just unaware of the facts and making great assumptions on not only JbEG's policies, but now also on my SO's feelings. He happily agreed to expand his initial budget, he did not want a cheaper setting for it either and chose to spend over $6,000 on it as opposed to a simpler setting that I would have been more than happy with for less.
He chose to increase his budget, no one forced him, emotionally or otherwise...trust me, no one forces that man to do anything he doesn't want to

I am very, very sorry that all this happened, Maplefemme. And I don't know you or your SO so my take from the situation could be way, way off, and I totally understand if you're like who is this person to say this to me? I wish for your sake that the ring will turn out beautifully (and seeing VC's recent work on this forum, I have every reason to believe so.)

Thank you for your well wishes...
I would never describe JbEG as shady or uncouth, as you worded above, it's not how I feel about them at all.
JbEG changed some of their ways of doing business so this doesn't happen again, I respect that. I'm a more educated buyer also as a result.
Victor does beautiful work, yes, I'm very much looking forward to seeing his creation. He's been a pleasure and the rings he's created for other PSers have all been such works of art, I couldn't agree with you more.

Oh jeez, maplefemme, I'm way off base here. I'm really sorry for spewing off. I feel like such an A-hole, and you being so gracious about it makes me feel like a double A-hole. Regarding your last comment - no, you never described JbEG as shady or uncouth, that was made as a response to other posters' comments. This is what makes it so hard for me to participate on internet debates- often times I'm making judgments on incorrect assumptions (ahem), or I'm not explaining myself clearly enough so I'm adding confusion into the pot. Anyhoo, please ignore my previous post. Again, so sorry and believe me, I've learned my lesson!

 

[Kaleigh]

maplefemme..

You are a class act as we say... You have dealt with this, in the best way possible. Level headed etc... I really hope all works out, and am looking forward to seeing your ring...

 

[maplefemme]

Going purely off of what was stated in this thread, Erica said they offered a refund, free consignment, exchange, or upgrade. MP stated that her SO was frustrated and did not want to do anymore business or transactions with them. Now I was not part of the actual conversations, so I do not know for sure, but to me it sounds like there were options available. But in reality, all we can do is speculate after the fact because only MP and the ladies from jbeg know what happened and what can be done if anything to resolve this. I was simply agreeing with Sapphirering that SO was upset about the money in addition to the diamond grading and that might be why the options were not considered.

Armywife, your facts are wrong. Erica and Grace have a no return policy for layaway. "layaway purchases being final sale" as per Erica on page 6. So I repeat, Maplefemme and her FI did not have *that* option available to them and that was precisely the problem. The color was misrepresented and not by a little and they had unfortunately a no return policy for layaway. Period.

I love JbEG. They have gorgeous jewelry and they are lovely people. However, I totally feel for maplefemme and her FI. It is an unfortunate situation and I hope that the ring will be beyond their dreams and that this whole matter will be moot.

Yes, Armywife, Missy is correct, thank you Missy for clarifying. Armywife, I don't want it to break down into an argument either, it really doesn't have to and I really respect differing opinions. My SO isn't upset about the money, he willingly changed his budget. He was upset about events after.
Free consignment means listing my custom made Victor Canera ring with the stone set in it, as I'm told by Grace, and I'm sorry I cannot do that. Victor and I worked hard on designing that ring, I'm not going to sell it to someone else, even though I appreciated the offer.

That is understandable. I cannot wait to see your ring, I bet it will be gorgeous.

Thank you armywife

 

[maplefemme]

maplefemme..

You are a class act as we say... You have dealt with this, in the best way possible. Level headed etc... I really hope all works out, and am looking forward to seeing your ring...

Thank you Kaleigh I had purchased earrings from JbEG prior and it was a very positive transaction and they are lovely antique earrings, so it's not indicative of them as a business.
I try very to keep calm and stick to facts to be fair and positive for both of us.

I'll share pics when I get it, I'm still waiting for it to arrive and get my official proposal

 

[maplefemme]

I really didn't want to get involved, seeing as I'm a newbie and don't normally post too much, but I''ll just butt in anyway.

I don't know the vendor and have never done any business with them. However, from my perspective as someone who has done a normal amount of purchases with jewelry stores (both PS and non-PS vendors), I really don't think jbEG did anything wrong in this case. So yes, their grading was way off from GIA's grading, but they offered a return policy with a certain window which the buyer opted not to utilize. Why should they bear the burden of the purchaser's cost savings? (Correct me if I'm wrong here. I'm assuming that Maplefemme had the option of returning the stone for full purchasing price if she didn't like the stone.) So, the onus was on the purchaser to make sure that the stone was to her liking before she commissioned another person to make the setting for it. Just because jbEG gets nothing but raves on PS doesn't mean that due diligence isn't required on the purchaser's behalf. I know that Maplefemme has freely admitted that.

They do not offer a return policy for consignment/layaway purchases, so no, I could not return the stone for the full purchase price, it would be against JbEG's policy as Erica from JbEG has clearly stated here, so I have to correct you on those assumptions. But to be fair to you, you do not know the vendor or their policies so you weren't to know.

Regarding jbEG's lowering the sales price of the potential replacement stone a few months after the fact... again, I really don't see anything shady or uncouth in that

It wasn't a few months, but you are correct in that they can charge whatever they wish for as much profit they feel they can get.

. bgEG is a BUSINESS, whose goal is to make a PROFIT. Yes, customer service is important. But, business landscape changes daily and they need to make decisions on how to price their inventory based on how their forecasted demand will be... before I go too far in my business lingo, what I'm trying to say is that jbEG can choose to jack up the sales price of that stone to $20k or lowball to $3k, and in my view it has zero bearing on this particular transaction. Maplefemme and her SO could have decided to return the stone, and they didn't.

Again, not true, it's very import you know that facts to make an accurate statement of them, with all due respect.

jbEG really does not owe them a replacement stone at the price that Maplefemme deemed fair. What is fair? Is it fair to assume that jbEG does not negotiate on pricing when Maplefemme has never asked whether the pricing is negotiable? I know that her SO doesn't like to haggle- then don't and accept the pricing as is, but don't complain later. I personally feel that it is not fair to do Monday night quarterbacking in this case.

As I'm reading this thread, I personally thing the crux of this matter is that Maplefemme's SO ended up spending way more on this ring that he had originally budgeted, and he is sore and upset about it. I think this is why he seems so hostile to jbEG. I know personally if I had to spend more than twice my budget so that my fiance would be happy with her engagement ring, it wouldn't take much for me to be completely upset when something goes wrong. I don't mean to sound harsh (but I know I'm probably coming across as such), but I just want to chip in my 2 cents. There were a lot of posts about how jbEG misrepresented the color grade and how could they, etc. Well, this is why there's a return policy. THAT was the way out.

You don't sound harsh, just unaware of the facts and making great assumptions on not only JbEG's policies, but now also on my SO's feelings. He happily agreed to expand his initial budget, he did not want a cheaper setting for it either and chose to spend over $6,000 on it as opposed to a simpler setting that I would have been more than happy with for less.
He chose to increase his budget, no one forced him, emotionally or otherwise...trust me, no one forces that man to do anything he doesn't want to

I am very, very sorry that all this happened, Maplefemme. And I don't know you or your SO so my take from the situation could be way, way off, and I totally understand if you're like who is this person to say this to me? I wish for your sake that the ring will turn out beautifully (and seeing VC's recent work on this forum, I have every reason to believe so.)

Thank you for your well wishes...
I would never describe JbEG as shady or uncouth, as you worded above, it's not how I feel about them at all.
JbEG changed some of their ways of doing business so this doesn't happen again, I respect that. I'm a more educated buyer also as a result.
Victor does beautiful work, yes, I'm very much looking forward to seeing his creation. He's been a pleasure and the rings he's created for other PSers have all been such works of art, I couldn't agree with you more.

Oh jeez, maplefemme, I'm way off base here. I'm really sorry for spewing off. I feel like such an A-hole, and you being so gracious about it makes me feel like a double A-hole. Regarding your last comment - no, you never described JbEG as shady or uncouth, that was made as a response to other posters' comments. This is what makes it so hard for me to participate on internet debates- often times I'm making judgments on incorrect assumptions (ahem), or I'm not explaining myself clearly enough so I'm adding confusion into the pot. Anyhoo, please ignore my previous post. Again, so sorry and believe me, I've learned my lesson!

No worries! It's all good, don't feel bad at all, I have eaten crow a few times

 

[ericad]

Layaway purchases are final sale per the contract/layaway agreement the buyer signs. That being said, when all this went down 2 months ago, we apologized to the buyer profusely and asked what we could do to make it right. They requested a partial credit for the discrepancy in grading. The buyer didn't request a refund, so it wasn't discussed as an option. Had they asked for a refund at the time, we would have considered it. But they asked for a credit to keep the stone, and we made it so without hesitation.

The other point I'd like to make, since MF and her SO are quite upset about it, is again with regards to the 2.67. MF told us she was upset by the GIA report (rightfully so) and could she possibly trade it for the 2.67. We responded that absolutely yes, she could, but wanted to make sure that she understood it wouldn't be an even trade since the 2.67 was priced at $7k more than the purchase price of her stone. She then said she'd abide by whatever her SO decides, and for us to communicate with him directly. He emailed us and told us, in no uncertain terms, that he would NOT spend any more money for a different stone and he would just like a credit to reflect the lower grade. We interpreted this to mean not $7k, not even $1, therefore we never engaged him in any further discussion about the 2.67 or any other stone. He had outright rejected this option, so we offered him the partial refund he wanted and he said he was happy with that outcome.

 

[Imdanny]

I'm really surprised by some fo the posts regarding maplefemme's situation.

Some of you might know that I'm having a ring remade because I'm unhappy with what my previous (very highly lauded here on PS) vendor produced. My new vendor is adapting his process to my needs by letting me into the procedure, and giving me final decision-making rights throughout, so that if I don't like something I see along the way we can change it before it's too late.

Even longtime PSers aren't infallible, and it's easy to overlook safeguards when the siren's calls of high praise and good reputation beckon with such urgency. It isn't that one party is in the right and the other is in the wrong, or even that one is moreright or wrong than the other - it's that maplefemme is, for whatever reason, a customer in a position that she doesn't want to be in, at the moment with no terribly promising options. I can sympathise with that, whether or not it's "her fault" (and I don't think it is, nor do I think JbEG behaved egregiously - it sounds to me like a case of the wrong combination of vendor/customer/merchandise...)

Yes, really! A couple of you go on sanctimoniously about a refund offer and it's not a fact- you two made that up in your own heads, yet you feel so strongly you "yell" about it with all caps.

And this outrageous presumption that MP's SO spent too much- and that's supposedly the rot of his unhappiness- incredibly rude.

Those of you per any vendor who visciously attack anyone who has a problem do not do yourselves or the vendor you are so irrationally defending any favors.

I'm sorry, MF. You really didn't deserve those viscious posts. I believe the color of your stone was misreprented. It's too far off to chalk it off as an honest difference of opinion. But you couldn't have a refund because hey have "policies". Well, I won't nor will anyone I know give them my money in the first place. Can't keep it for a misrepresented sone when I never gave it to you. Told you the used GIA matching and said they didn't specifically use GIA standards. What a crock.