Super Ideal VS Ideal VS GIA XXX

[jBright]

Hi all!

I am patiently (more so impatiently) waiting for my setting to be made for my diamond.. and my neurotic mind cannot shutoff.

I’ve googled this and I’ve searched it on the PS forums. But I really want to know for educational purposes..

What is the difference between a super ideal, ideal and GIA XXX diamond?

Are only branded diamonds capable of the Super Ideal distinction? Ex. WF, CBI, HPD, etc?

Are “ideal” diamonds AGS certified and “XXXdiamonds GIA certified? And is that the difference? Lol, I am so utterly confused.

in my research I came across this chart that stated this guys super ideal stats:



But he also mentions that just these stats do not make it super ideal alone, you also need to look at the ASET, hearts and arrows, etc to determine if it is “super ideal.”

the diamond that my BF and I purchased fits all of these specs, is grade GIA XXX. I actually found another post with ASET and H&A pics from a former PS member on here that was looking for advice when he was looking to buy the same diamond. He luckily for me, did not buy it.



I honestly do not know how to interpret these pictures. LOL, so I’ll just assume it’s not super ideal.

But is it possible for someone to find a non-branded super ideal diamond on a fluke?

TIA for everyone’s constant support in this forum! I’m learning so much!

 

[headlight]

Super ideals are the branded, “proprietary” (in a sense) cuts by Brian Gavin Diamonds, the A Cut Above stones from Whiteflash, Crafted by Infinity diamonds from High Performance Diamonds, and Victor Canera (as I’ve heard here). These stones are all accompanied by AGS lab reports with triple 0 cut grades and the reports indicate that they are branded stones. If there are other super ideal options I am not aware. Blue Nile has their Astor Collection but from what I’ve gathered here it is not on par with those mentioned above. Ideal is a name that is thrown around but creates much confusion and misunderstanding. GIA triple excellent is the highest cut grade awarded by the GIA. However, their cut grading system includes a far wider range of diamonds that are not on par with the top tier so you have to weed out the “weaker” ones and PS can help you do that. There are also AGS 000 diamonds that are not branded and that would be, in my opinion, the closest you will get to a branded. The branded have such precision cut quality. But you can still get a very beautiful stone without the premium. I am not proficient in interpreting the images so I will leave that to others.

 

[Kaycee2018]

GIA ExExEx's specs include a broader range than AGS000, and both GIA ExExEx and AGS000 include broader ranges than branded Super Ideals. Think of a target with the outer ring being GIA ExExEx, the next ring being AGS000, and the center ring branded Super Ideals. Branded Super Ideals are labeled as such not by GIA or AGS, but by certain vendors (Whiteflash, Brian Gavin). So yes, some GIA ExExEx and AGS000 diamonds could technically qualify as a Super Ideal; however, they are not technically Super Ideals unless they are sold as such by those vendors marketing them. When looking for diamonds that are non branded Super Ideals that meet or are near Super Ideal criteria, the proportions (including an inverse relationship between the crown and pavilion angles) and advanced images (ASET, IS, and Hearts & Arrows) are important to help determine light performance and the precision of the cut. As for as proportions, there are variations to the one you posted from beyond4Cs (some allow for table up to 58%, some show a depth of no more than 62%, others go up to 62.4% in depth, etc.). BTW, based on the advanced images alone for your diamond (since you didn't post the proportions), it looks very nice and should preform very well, though I don't believe it would meet "Super Ideal" criteria. However, IRL most people will not discern much or any difference at all between a diamond cut very close to "Super Ideal" (as yours seems to be) vs. an actual branded Super Ideal. Congrats on your beautiful new diamond!

 

[mwilliamanderson]

The previous posters have answered your question well. I just want to say I think your stone will be lovely!

 

[oldminer]

People who want the ultimate level of assurance of perfection in cutting need to use AGS000 as their basic standard along with searching the limited number of Branded diamonds with AGS documents and their Brand's own very strict cutting standards. The Brand standards are even more stringent than those set by AGS. Branded diamonds compete for which ones are the most strictly cut. It is a competition for perfection in the way the finest diamond cutters compete with one another. It benefits the consumer to have superior stones along with and competitive prices.

For consumers who want a good looking diamond and just don't feel an inner need for adding additional costs on for nearly invisible perfection in cutting, they can search for the many well cut GIA XXX stones listed on Pricescope. Lots of these GIA graded ones are cut at the outer fringes of what is the best range of cut standards, but if you learn on Pricescope what to look for, you can find ones that might be perfectly satisfactory so long as you are not totally driven by numbers and worried about really tiny, nuanced issues of cut quality. Be careful, as many GIA XXX diamonds are not as well cut as others with the same cut grade. You need to be a knowledgeable shopper, not impulsive. You shouldn't buy a GIAXXX diamond blindly.

With diamonds, the better the cut quality and adherence to high scientific standards, the better it is able to perform with light return and sparkle. Often, this difference is important to individuals that are into data, but not nearly as important to those who are just into simple issues of visual appearance and/or budget constrained. You can choose a Branded diamond that works with a limited budget by making other adjustments, of course.

The major issue, to me, is giving consumers education on the subject and guidance on how to select what fits their needs and wallet at the same time. Doing the selection correctly is tailored to the individual and should not become a one choice for everyone event. The process should be enjoyable and romantic not frightening or a mathematical determination.

Search, select a few, post a few links and ask how to determine which is better than the others. You may get answers that do't all agree mainly because we don't all think the same. That's the way humans are and you can just get more comfortable making a decent decision based on what is best for you. Use the help everyone provides to become more at ease with the process.

 

[lovedogs]

Posters above gave great answers. I will add that you got an AMAZING stone that is quite similar to the specs and look that we think of as super ideal. You have nothing to worry about

 

[jBright]

Thank you everyone for your great responses! I think I kind of have a handle on it.

Super Ideals - strictest cut proportions and branded

AGS 000 - all super ideal diamonds have this dinstinction.

Ideal - just a term thrown around, confuses newbies like me

GIA XXX - a very broad range, need to confirm images, videos, specs, HCA, IS, and ASET scope to make sure it’s in the top tier of the XXX class!

AGS 000 and GIA XXX can have super ideal proportions, but would not be called such because the term “super ideal” is basically reserved for the branded diamonds.

Here are two of my previous posts, with GIA certificate, videos, and pictures if interested of the diamond we purchased:

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/2-carat-rb-help-needed.257736/

She’s here :) and advice needed

Hi all! 2.03 RB G SI1 XXX Thank you so much to everyone that has helped me get this far! We just got the loose diamond in and will be bringing it to our local jeweler tomorrow :). Sorry I couldn’t figure out how to take better pictures!! I’m between 3.5-4 finger sizes. I am very excited and...

www.pricescope.com

Posters above gave great answers. I will add that you got an AMAZING stone that is quite similar to the specs and look that we think of as super ideal. You have nothing to worry about

Thank you @lovedogs i appreciate your input in this post and my previous posts!! As I’ve noticed your other comments in other posts, your opinion is invaluable to me

The previous posters have answered your question well. I just want to say I think your stone will be lovely!

Thank you @mwilliamanderson !! I hope it’s beautiful when set also!!

Super ideals are the branded, “proprietary” (in a sense) cuts by Brian Gavin Diamonds, the A Cut Above stones from Whiteflash, Crafted by Infinity diamonds from High Performance Diamonds, and Victor Canera (as I’ve heard here). These stones are all accompanied by AGS lab reports with triple 0 cut grades and the reports indicate that they are branded stones. If there are other super ideal options I am not aware. Blue Nile has their Astor Collection but from what I’ve gathered here it is not on par with those mentioned above. Ideal is a name that is thrown around but creates much confusion and misunderstanding. GIA triple excellent is the highest cut grade awarded by the GIA. However, their cut grading system includes a far wider range of diamonds that are not on par with the top tier so you have to weed out the “weaker” ones and PS can help you do that. There are also AGS 000 diamonds that are not branded and that would be, in my opinion, the closest you will get to a branded. The branded have such precision cut quality. But you can still get a very beautiful stone without the premium. I am not proficient in interpreting the images so I will leave that to others.

thank you @headlight for your detailed response!! You really broke it down for me and put things into clear perspective for me!

GIA ExExEx's specs include a broader range than AGS000, and both GIA ExExEx and AGS000 include broader ranges than branded Super Ideals. Think of a target with the outer ring being GIA ExExEx, the next ring being AGS000, and the center ring branded Super Ideals. Branded Super Ideals are labeled as such not by GIA or AGS, but by certain vendors (Whiteflash, Brian Gavin). So yes, some GIA ExExEx and AGS000 diamonds could technically qualify as a Super Ideal; however, they are not technically Super Ideals unless they are sold as such by those vendors marketing them. When looking for diamonds that are non branded Super Ideals that meet or are near Super Ideal criteria, the proportions (including an inverse relationship between the crown and pavilion angles) and advanced images (ASET, IS, and Hearts & Arrows) are important to help determine light performance and the precision of the cut. As for as proportions, there are variations to the one you posted from beyond4Cs (some allow for table up to 58%, some show a depth of no more than 62%, others go up to 62.4% in depth, etc.). BTW, based on the advanced images alone for your diamond (since you didn't post the proportions), it looks very nice and should preform very well, though I don't believe it would meet "Super Ideal" criteria. However, IRL most people will not discern much or any difference at all between a diamond cut very close to "Super Ideal" (as yours seems to be) vs. an actual branded Super Ideal. Congrats on your beautiful new diamond!

Thank you @Kaycee2018 !! You and @headlight really are wonderful and your explanations were great!

I posted my above two links to my prior posts with pics, specs and what not. If you’re interested in looking. Would love to hear your critique!

also here is the Gia:

People who want the ultimate level of assurance of perfection in cutting need to use AGS000 as their basic standard along with searching the limited number of Branded diamonds with AGS documents and their Brand's own very strict cutting standards. The Brand standards are even more stringent than those set by AGS. Branded diamonds compete for which ones are the most strictly cut. It is a competition for perfection in the way the finest diamond cutters compete with one another. It benefits the consumer to have superior stones along with and competitive prices.

For consumers who want a good looking diamond and just don't feel an inner need for adding additional costs on for nearly invisible perfection in cutting, they can search for the many well cut GIA XXX stones listed on Pricescope. Lots of these GIA graded ones are cut at the outer fringes of what is the best range of cut standards, but if you learn on Pricescope what to look for, you can find ones that might be perfectly satisfactory so long as you are not totally driven by numbers and worried about really tiny, nuanced issues of cut quality. Be careful, as many GIA XXX diamonds are not as well cut as others with the same cut grade. You need to be a knowledgeable shopper, not impulsive. You shouldn't buy a GIAXXX diamond blindly.

With diamonds, the better the cut quality and adherence to high scientific standards, the better it is able to perform with light return and sparkle. Often, this difference is important to individuals that are into data, but not nearly as important to those who are just into simple issues of visual appearance and/or budget constrained. You can choose a Branded diamond that works with a limited budget by making other adjustments, of course.

The major issue, to me, is giving consumers education on the subject and guidance on how to select what fits their needs and wallet at the same time. Doing the selection correctly is tailored to the individual and should not become a one choice for everyone event. The process should be enjoyable and romantic not frightening or a mathematical determination.

Search, select a few, post a few links and ask how to determine which is better than the others. You may get answers that do't all agree mainly because we don't all think the same. That's the way humans are and you can just get more comfortable making a decent decision based on what is best for you. Use the help everyone provides to become more at ease with the process.

Thank you @oldminer ! I agree with everything you said whole heartedly. My main criteria was to reach the 2 carat mark (2.03), cut (XXX, fit into the ideal proportions posted in PS and other sites), color (i wanted no yellow stone and chose G) and then clarity (i just wanted eye clean - ended up with an SI1). I knew within my budget I would not be able to get a super ideal diamond so I focused on GIA XXX and the members here at PS reaffirmed my feelings about my selection (after a lot of trial and error on my part) and we bought it . And I understand that other people, many on PS, prioritize cut over carat and would go for a super ideal diamond and a smaller carat weight. I love that there are many different opinions in PS and that everyone is so willing to help!

my jeweler actually told me I overpaid for my stone, and had his employee look up stones at my price point to prove to me that I overpaid and could’ve gotten a better stone. But his employee asked me what I paid and reaffirmed MY feelings and said what I paid was fair and he couldn’t find a better deal! Lol. So yay me! Thank you everyone!!

 

[MamaBear]

This is a great question, one I’ve wondered about as well! There is so much to learn....

 

[Karl_K]

brandism is rampant this morning I see.
Part of being a super-ideal is the documentation.
I have a super-ideal that hangs with or is tighter than many other super-ideals and it has a gia report.
Yes you can find unbranded super-ideals, you can even document them yourselves with the scopes.

super-ideal is a diamond that scores at the highest levels for its type on any test your throw at it.
It is documented by the highest lab grades for cut,polish,symmetry followed by a passing hca score, passing hearts, passing arrows, and passing IS/ASET image with proportions in what is considered the near tolk ideal range.

 

[jBright]

This is a great question, one I’ve wondered about as well! There is so much to learn....

I’m glad I’m not the only one! Lol. So many different terms and opinions.

brandism is rampant this morning I see.
Part of being a super-ideal is the documentation.
I have a super-ideal that hangs with or is tighter than many other super-ideals and it has a gia report.
Yes you can find unbranded super-ideals, you can even document them yourselves with the scopes.

super-ideal is a diamond that scores at the highest levels for its type on any test your throw at it.
It is documented by the highest lab grades for cut,polish,symmetry followed by a passing hca score, passing hearts, passing arrows, and passing IS/ASET image with proportions in what is considered the near tolk ideal range.

thank you @Karl_K for your perspective! And LOL @ the brandism. With your comment, I can now say.. everyone just has their own opinions... neither is wrong or right.

super ideal diamonds has the strictest proportions and images. It does not have to be branded.

Many people only consider branded diamonds to be “super ideal”.. but to each their own! If you can get a “super ideal” diamond without the extra price tag... why not? It will take extra time and effort to get there, and many people will pay for the convenience of getting an already vetted stone. But the bargainer in me will not. Lol. Although the upgrade policies of WF is very enticing. My BF would kill me right now if i even spoke of upgrading, since I kept telling him “THIS IS GOING TO BE MY RING FOREVERRRR”

 

[Kaycee2018]

@jBright , your specs are very solid (and actually very similar to my e-ring specs ) and the advanced images support a sold performer. I‘m sure your diamond is stunning! Congrats on a job well done!

 

[Dancing Fire]

Here's a great example of a unbranded "super ideal cut"

Ideal Vintage Cut diamonds & Ovals | August Vintage Inc.

The home of Distinctive and August Vintage diamonds online. The world's first patented ideal vintage cut diamonds in way of oval, cushion and old European cut round diamonds.

www.distinctivegem.com

 

[jBright]

@jBright , your specs are very solid (and actually very similar to my e-ring specs ) and the advanced images support a sold performer. I‘m sure your diamond is stunning! Congrats on a job well done!

thank you @Kaycee2018 !! I went and stalked your new upgrade!! It’s humungous and beautiful! I wish mine was as big.. we’ll just call mine your diamond’s little sister !! Hehe

Here's a great example of a unbranded "super ideal cut"

Ideal Vintage Cut diamonds & Ovals | August Vintage Inc.

The home of Distinctive and August Vintage diamonds online. The world's first patented ideal vintage cut diamonds in way of oval, cushion and old European cut round diamonds.

www.distinctivegem.com

Oh wow!! I watched the video, the way that thing sparkles . That price tag hurts tho ! Lol

 

[oldminer]

Just be aware that there are many branded diamonds, some with non-standard facets configurations and some with nearly standard faceting Many have have added facets so there will just be more facets to tout. Most of these branded diamonds are sold by mass marketing chain store jewelers.. Some are found at what once were busy travel destinations. Such branded diamonds rarely, if ever, meet the strict criteria necessary to make light work at its best. They are branded to create confusion and to appear the be special and premium quality when they are not. You have to inform yourselves to know the few true premium cut sources of diamonds versus the far larger number of places which offer regular or weird diamonds, but hope to make you believe they are something unusual and in short supply. Most branded diamonds are not anything even close to deserving a premium price. Using I-S or ASET scopes and images are of high importance in making a real judgement of cut quality.