Struggling with Quality of Engagement Ring

[300GCP]

He prioritized "great deal" over "great ring". This is a portrait of how your entire life with him COULD go. I'd explain that as much as you appreciate a "great deal" on ALMOST ANYTHING ELSE -- this is something different to you. You want a GREAT RING! I hope the jeweler will either trade you your ring back & let you start over elsewhere .... OR ... work with you to get something fabulous even if they don't have it in house currently.

Sorry he didn't "get it" initially. This is an EMOTIONAL situation ... not a RATIONAL one. Help him see the difference. I think he got the wrong idea when you offered the "practical" solution of trading in your old ring for the new one. That said "she is valuing practicality over sentimentality" -- he went with that clue when deciding whether to take that ONCE IN A LIFETIME deal that jeweler was selling him. He thought you'd approve. He was wrong.

Good luck!!!!!!!

It's funny how things that posters are saying really capture my feelings even though I could not come up with the words myself. If he weren't trading in my old ring and he came home with the one I have now, I think I'd be happy. I'd think it was beautiful. I'd have nothing else to compare it to and would think it came from the heart. But yes, he saw a great deal (and I think the jeweler was pressuring him about what a great deal it was) and took it. I guess I thought given that he had my prior ring and that he makes a comfortable living, he'd WANT on his own volition to really come up with something "special" in the sense that a better diamond is rarer and harder to find and he could afford it. I think you're right, it may have been my own fault for throwing up the mixed signal that I thought this was practical. Sigh.

 

[hoofbeats95]

He probably did get swept away with "good deal". However, my idea of a good deal is "wow look what I can get now that I have this additional money that I couldn't get before". And that's what you intended. Quite frankly it does sound like he could have afforded a ring of this quality on his own. He should have been prepared for that kind of purchase before you offered the other ring as trade. So the thought should have been "wow - what can I get her NOW? Now that I have this additional budget." However I think this might just be the difference in a guy and a girl. Our thought processes are different. It's unfortunate. So you have to show him how the girls think! It takes a while but guys eventually can see how we think! lol. The funny thing is that some (many) guys have a competitive streak. So I would have expected him to use that ring to get a new ring that really TOPS the old one. Know what I mean? Kind of top the previous guy?

 

[Circe]

We've been engaged now for about 10 days. A few days after it happened, when I realized the specs and all that, I broke down and I did tell him and was BAWLING when I did. But I felt HORRENDOUSLY guilty and told him that I knew what I was saying was illogical and stupid and to just bare with me. I told him that I was just surprised because I thought we said he would put his own money into this, and that really the trading of the old ring was supposed to SAVE money and not just get a ring for almost nothing. He said he completely understood and that he wanted to spend more even for himself, but that this jeweler was giving him a trade-in that he could not possibly find anywhere else (based on other places he looked) AND that the jeweler said that he'd only give him that price if he bought a stone from him. The jeweler just didn't have any stone in between the F,VS2 and 1.65 stone, which would have cost more than $20k, and the one my fiancee bought. He said he planned on buying me another piece of jewelery with the money he had been planning to spend. I said I thought that was nice, but this ring is forever and will be worn every day and that I wish it had been put into the ring. The circumstances just didn't allow it. I also think he was rushing to get the ring before a trip we took. Ultimately, I felt so guilty I told him I had gotten over the feelings and to forget it. I tried to put it out of my mind, but it won't go away.

Aw, babe ... what an uncomfortable situation to be in! Judging from the above, I don't think your FI is cheaping out, if he's planning to get you another piece of jewelry with the money he saved: I think he just isn't a "jewelry person," and didn't understand the sentimental value of the e-ring as something a woman wears every day, and, in some cases, thinks of as symbolizing her relationship and how her fiance feels about her. So, explanation time ... and don't feel guilty. I think you're well within your rights to be a little upset here: you basically paid for your own ring, and you wound up with a ring you like less than the one you had!

10 days out, I'm hoping you're within a 14-day exchange period, which is standard for many jewelers. I'd have the talk sooner rather than later, though, and give the jeweler a talk as soon as possible. Hopefully the jeweler will still be willing to credit you 8.5K even on another stone ... though I doubt you'll get such a good deal on another stone, this one will be "mind-clean," which is what's really important. And the symbolism of you working out a misunderstanding together and coming to a happy compromise/conclusion is pretty nice, no?

P.S. - Just to be on the safe side, does the inclusion you're seeing from the side look sort of like a crack across the bottom third? I'm wondering if it might be girdle reflection (something you see in every diamond), and thus, maybe less of an issue than it seems with the stone itself. Any chance you have a GIA# for the stone so we could look up the certificate?

 

[decodelighted]

I don't think your FI is cheaping out, if he's planning to get you another piece of jewelry with the money he saved: I think he just isn't a "jewelry person," and didn't understand the sentimental value of the e-ring as something a woman wears every day, and, in some cases, thinks of as symbolizing her relationship and how her fiance feels about her. So, explanation time ... and don't feel guilty. I think you're well within your rights to be a little upset here: you basically paid for your own ring, and you wound up with a ring you like less than the one you had!

Yes!

 

[300GCP]

We've been engaged now for about 10 days. A few days after it happened, when I realized the specs and all that, I broke down and I did tell him and was BAWLING when I did. But I felt HORRENDOUSLY guilty and told him that I knew what I was saying was illogical and stupid and to just bare with me. I told him that I was just surprised because I thought we said he would put his own money into this, and that really the trading of the old ring was supposed to SAVE money and not just get a ring for almost nothing. He said he completely understood and that he wanted to spend more even for himself, but that this jeweler was giving him a trade-in that he could not possibly find anywhere else (based on other places he looked) AND that the jeweler said that he'd only give him that price if he bought a stone from him. The jeweler just didn't have any stone in between the F,VS2 and 1.65 stone, which would have cost more than $20k, and the one my fiancee bought. He said he planned on buying me another piece of jewelery with the money he had been planning to spend. I said I thought that was nice, but this ring is forever and will be worn every day and that I wish it had been put into the ring. The circumstances just didn't allow it. I also think he was rushing to get the ring before a trip we took. Ultimately, I felt so guilty I told him I had gotten over the feelings and to forget it. I tried to put it out of my mind, but it won't go away.

Aw, babe ... what an uncomfortable situation to be in! Judging from the above, I don't think your FI is cheaping out, if he's planning to get you another piece of jewelry with the money he saved: I think he just isn't a "jewelry person," and didn't understand the sentimental value of the e-ring as something a woman wears every day, and, in some cases, thinks of as symbolizing her relationship and how her fiance feels about her. So, explanation time ... and don't feel guilty. I think you're well within your rights to be a little upset here: you basically paid for your own ring, and you wound up with a ring you like less than the one you had!

10 days out, I'm hoping you're within a 14-day exchange period, which is standard for many jewelers. I'd have the talk sooner rather than later, though, and give the jeweler a talk as soon as possible. Hopefully the jeweler will still be willing to credit you 8.5K even on another stone ... though I doubt you'll get such a good deal on another stone, this one will be "mind-clean," which is what's really important. And the symbolism of you working out a misunderstanding together and coming to a happy compromise/conclusion is pretty nice, no?

P.S. - Just to be on the safe side, does the inclusion you're seeing from the side look sort of like a crack across the bottom third? I'm wondering if it might be girdle reflection (something you see in every diamond), and thus, maybe less of an issue than it seems with the stone itself. Any chance you have a GIA# for the stone so we could look up the certificate?

The reason this is all so surprising is because I would never expect him to cheap out. We are financially comfortable and a bit older. I think he wanted to propose immediately and I know that the jeweler was INSISTING that it is ridiculous to buy anything other than SI. I wish I could take a photo, the inclusion looks like a scratch mark almost and the GIA report shows a feather as the grade making inclusion. I will send the GIA report number tonight after I get home.

 

[300GCP]

If anyone is still out there, the GIA report number is 16429337.

 

[Lightfoot]

If anyone is still out there, the GIA report number is 16429337.

Here's the GIA info for it: http://www2.gia.edu/reportcheck/index.cfm?fuseaction=home.showReportVerification&reportno=16429337&weight=1.51

It was graded in 2007 and the GIA website says PDF reports (likely with the inclusion map) are only available if the stone was graded after July 2010.

 

[300GCP]

Hmm. I have the certificate here but have no way of scanning it. I plugged the numbers into the HCA calculator and it came back at 1.9, so excellent. The most significant inclusions are some needles and a feather.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I'd tell the jeweler you want GIA excellent cut and VS2 for clarity. You had a VS stone before and I think you are not being picky to want it again.

 

[300GCP]

I'd tell the jeweler you want GIA excellent cut and VS2 for clarity. You had a VS stone before and I think you are not being picky to want it again.

I'm a little confused. I plugged my stone's specs into the HCA thing and it comes back as being excellent. Then I plugged in some GIA excellent cut specs and they were not as good.

 

[Circe]

GIA's cut parameters are a little ... loose, by PS standards. They acknowledge what PSrs call "steep-deeps" as excellent, occasionally.

The HCA, on the other hand, is meant to be used exclusively as a weeding tool: don't bother with stones over 2 unless price is a factor, basically (though, under 2, the numbers don't matter: like, a .6 isn't better that a 1.9). There's a "cheat-sheet" for the numbers that a PSr named Lorelei composed (I think - sorry if I'm attributing incorrectly!) - it says:

depth - 60 - 62% - although my personal preference is to allow up to 62.4%
table - 54- 57%
crown angle - 34- 35 degrees
pavilion angle - 40.6- 41 degrees
girdle - avoid extremes, look for thin to slightly thick, thin to medium etc
polish and symmetry - very good and above

note - with crown and pavilion angles at the shallower ends ( CA 34- PA 40.6) and steeper ( CA 35- PA 41) check to make sure these angles complement in that particular diamond - eyeballs, Idealscope, trusted vendor input - check as appropriate!

Basically, your stone looks a little shallow, and the table's on the larger side. There's nothing egregious, and if you loved it, I'd say keep it. If you have mixed feelings, though, don't let guilt convince you to keep something that might make you feel "euch" inside every time you looked down at your hand, regardless of whether it's because of the stone or the circumstances.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I was looking at this which said very good:

http://www2.gia.edu/reportcheck/index.cfm?fuseaction=home.showReportVerification&reportno=16429337&weight=1.51

I'd go with Excellent cut and the parameters Circe gave you. (In fact, that is what I look for when buying diamonds myself!)

 

[Lula]

There are some GIA Excellent stones that do not score under 2.0 on the HCA, and there are some GIA Very Good stones that do score under 2.0, so cut grade doesn't tell the whole story.

And the HCA is a good place to start, but it doesn't tell the whole story either.

Basically, an HCA score of 1.9 tells you that the stone has the potential to be a "good performer," which is great.

Your stone may very well be a beautifully cut stone, meaning that the angles compliment each other. And that's what really counts in terms of separating well-cut, lively diamonds from poorly-cut, dull diamonds.

There are many different "types" of well-cut stones; yours may be similar to #4 in this article, which depicts different types of stones, all with the same cut grade.
https://www.pricescope.com/journal/laboratory_cut_grades_what_report_doesn’t_show

An Idealscope image would tell us more about your stone's light return, i.e.,whether or not it "leaks" light instead of returns light back to the viewer. But, again, even if your stone has less-than-perfect light return, it may not be noticeable to you or to others looking at your stone, unless, perhaps, you were comparing it side-by-side to a stone with better light return. And even then, you may prefer the look of your stone over the stone with better light return.

What I'm saying is that there is a degree of personal taste and preference involved in choosing a diamond, that's why people should not buy diamonds based only on the numbers.

The inclusions in your stone are another matter if you can see them and it bothers you that you can see them. Even if we did have the full lab report with the inclusion map, it wouldn't tell us anything about what you can see with your own eyes -- everyone's visual acuity (and tolerance for inclusions) is different. Personal preference again. So if you are indeed seeing inclusions and this is bothering you, by all means, consider exchanging this stone for another. Peace of mind is worth a lot. But based on the HCA, and looking at the numbers in the GIA report, I think there is actually a good chance that your stone has proportions that work together to produce an attractive stone.

Because the proportions are on the shallow-shallow side, you will want to read up on obstruction under the knowledge tool above, to check to see if your stone becomes overly dark when you view it up close.

But if the Very Good cut grade bothers you, and you'd prefer a GIA Excellent or AGS 0, then by all means exchange it -- peace of mind again. But each stone needs to be evaluated on its own merits; buying a stone just because it is graded GIA Excellent or AGS 0 without considering the stone individually does not guarantee that you will end up with a beautiful (to your eyes) stone. The lab grade only tells part of the story.

 

[Dancing Fire]

[quote="300GCP You definitely don't sound harsh at all. The original ring when purchased cost $12k. Current fiancee got $7,800 for it. New ering cost $8,500 plus tax.

You are right, I do feel like previous fiancee bought the current e-ring, and that is definitely a huge contributing factor. The quality is also huge for me because of the fact that I can see the inclusion (I think). And yes, we are both lawyers, he is actually a partner at a big firm, so adding a bit more wouldn't have been a problem.

He told me about the experience with the jeweler, and basically the jeweler was saying he bought this stone in a prior year and hasn't sold it, and therefore can really give him a great deal on it. He also showed my fiancee to other stones - 1.65, F, VS2 and 1.81, F, VS2, which were both tens of thousands of dollars more. There was no in between.

I really am upset if I let myself admit it. [/quote]

... so basically he fork out < $1000 bucks for your E-ring? ..IMO,he should at least match the $7800 that he gotten out of your original ring.

don't you know the rule that the second E-ring must be bigger and better quality than the first?..

 

[Natylad]

[quote="300GCP You definitely don't sound harsh at all. The original ring when purchased cost $12k. Current fiancee got $7,800 for it. New ering cost $8,500 plus tax.

You are right, I do feel like previous fiancee bought the current e-ring, and that is definitely a huge contributing factor. The quality is also huge for me because of the fact that I can see the inclusion (I think). And yes, we are both lawyers, he is actually a partner at a big firm, so adding a bit more wouldn't have been a problem.

He told me about the experience with the jeweler, and basically the jeweler was saying he bought this stone in a prior year and hasn't sold it, and therefore can really give him a great deal on it. He also showed my fiancee to other stones - 1.65, F, VS2 and 1.81, F, VS2, which were both tens of thousands of dollars more. There was no in between.

I really am upset if I let myself admit it.

... so basically he fork out < $1000 bucks for your E-ring? ..IMO,he should at least match the $7800 that he gotten out of your original ring.

don't you know the rule that the second E-ring must be bigger and better quality than the first?.. [/quote]

And who made up this rule, that supposedly the second ring must be bigger and better than the first? I think that the second husband should be better than the first And if that second, much better husband can afford the better ring too, that's great...but if he can't afford it, for whatever reasons, then IT DOESN'T MATTER. What matters is the quality of the people, not the quality and the size of the diamonds(this coming from a person who was married before and got a much better ER the second time).
The problem in this particular case is the fact that the man could afford the bigger and better ring but he didn't want to spend the money on it. That is a totally different issue...In any case, if i was a man and i was in his position, i wouldn't have accepted the previous ring. I would have expected my future fiancee to accept whatever ring i could afford with my own budget, regardless of the size and the rest of the specs and i would have asked her to sell the previous ring on her own and use the money for whatever other project she wished.

 

[bethprov]

I don't have anything to add in the way of advice on your stone as far as the numbers you gave but I will say this..

My hubby was married before and made the mistake of telling me what the e-ring he bought his previous wife looked like and how much it cost. When we got engaged, his grandmother had left him her ring about a year before that. He planned on giving me that ring but I told him I didn't want to wear a 70 year old yellow gold ring. I was afraid I would loose it b/c I work in healthcare and am very hard on my rings. I asked him to reset it and he wouldn't! He made me feel bad like I felt the ring wasn't good enough. He decided to buy me my own ring and the ring he bought me was 1/2 the carat weight of his first wifes, a lower clarity, and cost less than half of what he spent on hers! On top of all this, I could see an inclusion that probably wouldn't bother most people but I knew it was there! I was devastated, never told him, and I regret it to this day. I really felt like he cheaped out and gave me less of a ring than he gave his first wife,and made me feel bad about his grandmother's ring and all of that led me to really dislike my ring. Every single day I looked down on it with negative feelings. I truly believe that if I didn't know about his first e-ring buying experience or his grandmother's ring, I would have probably felt better about my ring but and just loved it for what it was. My e-ring It is currently being set as a necklace (because my setting broke, not because I finally fessed up about no liking it) with my husband's blessing and ironically, an apology for not doing the best he could when he bought it in the first place. I hope to enjoy it much more as a necklace. I probably will not get a new e-ring for a while but at least I don't have to look down at my ring and stare at that damn inclusion and feel bad! My advice...FIX IT NOW!!!!! I let him have all of the say in picking it out . I never told him that it was bothering me and have regretted it for the last 5 years. Good luck and I truly hope that whatever happens you are happy!

 

[Dancing Fire]

[quote="natyLad|1303274330|

And who made up this rule, that supposedly the second ring must be bigger and better than the first? I think that the second husband should be better than the first And if that second, much better husband can afford the better ring too, that's great...but if he can't afford it, for whatever reasons, then IT DOESN'T MATTER. What matters is the quality of the people, not the quality and the size of the diamonds(this coming from a person who was married before and got a much better ER the second time).
[/quote]

ha,ha...so you do know the rule..

 

[suchende]

He essentially made an even trade (which you apparently were clear about not being okay). I would be very upset and feel disrespected and degraded. Good deal? He got a GREAT deal. 2 months' salary? More like 20 minutes.

When my mom and stepdad got engaged, he bought her a smallish diamond (was in the middle of a costly divorce). Her "wedding ring" was a new engagement ring with a bigger center stone. She wears her original "engagement ring" as a right hand ring.

But if I were you, I would be so upset that I would need to just start over. I would try to take back this ring, trade it for something not tainted by the previous marriage (like earrings) and start totally from scratch.

At Cartier.

 

[shihtzulover]

[quote="300GCP You definitely don't sound harsh at all. The original ring when purchased cost $12k. Current fiancee got $7,800 for it. New ering cost $8,500 plus tax.

You are right, I do feel like previous fiancee bought the current e-ring, and that is definitely a huge contributing factor. The quality is also huge for me because of the fact that I can see the inclusion (I think). And yes, we are both lawyers, he is actually a partner at a big firm, so adding a bit more wouldn't have been a problem.

He told me about the experience with the jeweler, and basically the jeweler was saying he bought this stone in a prior year and hasn't sold it, and therefore can really give him a great deal on it. He also showed my fiancee to other stones - 1.65, F, VS2 and 1.81, F, VS2, which were both tens of thousands of dollars more. There was no in between.

I really am upset if I let myself admit it.

... so basically he fork out < $1000 bucks for your E-ring? ..IMO,he should at least match the $7800 that he gotten out of your original ring.

don't you know the rule that the second E-ring must be bigger and better quality than the first?..

And who made up this rule, that supposedly the second ring must be bigger and better than the first? I think that the second husband should be better than the first And if that second, much better husband can afford the better ring too, that's great...but if he can't afford it, for whatever reasons, then IT DOESN'T MATTER. What matters is the quality of the people, not the quality and the size of the diamonds(this coming from a person who was married before and got a much better ER the second time).
The problem in this particular case is the fact that the man could afford the bigger and better ring but he didn't want to spend the money on it. That is a totally different issue...In any case, if i was a man and i was in his position, i wouldn't have accepted the previous ring. I would have expected my future fiancee to accept whatever ring i could afford with my own budget, regardless of the size and the rest of the specs and i would have asked her to sell the previous ring on her own and use the money for whatever other project she wished.[/quote]

I told my fiance about this thread, and he said the same thing. He said that if we had been in that situation, he would not have accepted the old ring, because he would not want to feel like a past husband had paid for my new engagement ring, even partially. If we were in this situation, he would have purchased the engagement ring himself, and he would have just told me that I could trade the old ring in for a nice pair of earrings or a pendant.

I also don't really understand why he got such a terrific deal on this diamond (but that the other diamonds at the store were so much more expensive), nor do I understand why the grading report is so old. Does that seem odd to anyone else?

 

[Natylad]

[quote="natyLad|1303274330|

And who made up this rule, that supposedly the second ring must be bigger and better than the first? I think that the second husband should be better than the first And if that second, much better husband can afford the better ring too, that's great...but if he can't afford it, for whatever reasons, then IT DOESN'T MATTER. What matters is the quality of the people, not the quality and the size of the diamonds(this coming from a person who was married before and got a much better ER the second time).

ha,ha...so you do know the rule.. [/quote]

No, i don't know any such rule. My ex husband didn't know anything about diamonds and jewelry. He went in the first B&M store that he found, got a .50ct diamond ring with an in house appraisal and no lab report and gave it to me. I wore it proudly for as long as the marriage lasted and when we divorced i gave it back to him because i didn't want to have any such symbolic objects carried in my new life. Years after, i met my second husband, who also had no idea about jewelry. He asked me what i wished for and i said that i wanted a pink sapphire and diamond ring, first because i LOVE pink sapphires and second because i wanted something different than the previous ring. He went to BIRKS Toronto, got the best ring that fitted the above description and was totally ripped off. After i saw it, i realized that the ring was beautiful but it didn't look like an engagement ring.I was sincere about this to my then fiance and now husband. He said that i could keep my original ER for sentimental reasons and he gave me a budget that i could use towards a ring that i would really like to wear as my ER for the rest of my life. With that money, i ended up getting a diamond ring which was much bigger than the first one (.90ct), GIA certified, triple ex cut, E color, VVS2 clarity, H&A (according to the independent appraisal that he had done afterwards). I was very happy about it and i consider myself very lucky BUT: All of the above happened without my fiance knowing anything about the ring that i received from the ex husband and only because he was as generous as to give me enough money to buy a ring that just happened to be "bigger and better". He didn't feel that he had to compete with the ex about the ring and neither did i. I would have said yes even if he had proposed with a plain gold band. It was just a lucky coincidence that he was willing to spend more money than the ex husband, in order to get me the ring that i really wanted and that he had that money to spend. If he didn't, i wouldn't have minded at all. Because indeed, it never had occured to me that such a rule exists and frankly, if it does, i find it a total nonsense...

ETA: I'm very sorry about the threadjack...

 

[Dreamer_D]

[quote="natyLad|1303274330|

And who made up this rule, that supposedly the second ring must be bigger and better than the first? I think that the second husband should be better than the first And if that second, much better husband can afford the better ring too, that's great...but if he can't afford it, for whatever reasons, then IT DOESN'T MATTER. What matters is the quality of the people, not the quality and the size of the diamonds(this coming from a person who was married before and got a much better ER the second time).

ha,ha...so you do know the rule..

No, i don't know any such rule. My ex husband didn't know anything about diamonds and jewelry. He went in the first B&M store that he found, got a .50ct diamond ring with an in house appraisal and no lab report and gave it to me. I wore it proudly for as long as the marriage lasted and when we divorced i gave it back to him because i didn't want to have any such symbolic objects carried in my new life. Years after, i met my second husband, who also had no idea about jewelry. He asked me what i wished for and i said that i wanted a pink sapphire and diamond ring, first because i LOVE pink sapphires and second because i wanted something different than the previous ring. He went to BIRKS Toronto, got the best ring that fitted the above description and was totally ripped off. After i saw it, i realized that the ring was beautiful but it didn't look like an engagement ring.I was sincere about this to my then fiance and now husband. He said that i could keep my original ER for sentimental reasons and he gave me a budget that i could use towards a ring that i would really like to wear as my ER for the rest of my life. With that money, i ended up getting a diamond ring which was much bigger than the first one (.90ct), GIA certified, triple ex cut, E color, VVS2 clarity, H&A (according to the independent appraisal that he had done afterwards). I was very happy about it and i consider myself very lucky BUT: All of the above happened without my fiance knowing anything about the ring that i received from the ex husband and only because he was as generous as to give me enough money to buy a ring that just happened to be "bigger and better". He didn't feel that he had to compete with the ex about the ring and neither did i. I would have said yes even if he had proposed with a plain gold band. It was just a lucky coincidence that he was willing to spend more money than the ex husband, in order to get me the ring that i really wanted and that he had that money to spend. If he didn't, i wouldn't have minded at all. Because indeed, it never had occured to me that such a rule exists and frankly, if it does, i find it a total nonsense...

ETA: I'm very sorry about the threadjack...[/quote]

Naty DF is just pulling your chain and trying to rile you up Have you seen the signs are the zoo saying "Don't feed the bears?" Here in RT we need a "Don't feed Dancing Fire" signs made up too, as in don't give him attention by responding to his antics. He will come back at you with another quip, just you wait!

 

[Natylad]

[quote="natyLad|1303274330|

And who made up this rule, that supposedly the second ring must be bigger and better than the first? I think that the second husband should be better than the first And if that second, much better husband can afford the better ring too, that's great...but if he can't afford it, for whatever reasons, then IT DOESN'T MATTER. What matters is the quality of the people, not the quality and the size of the diamonds(this coming from a person who was married before and got a much better ER the second time).

ha,ha...so you do know the rule..

No, i don't know any such rule. My ex husband didn't know anything about diamonds and jewelry. He went in the first B&M store that he found, got a .50ct diamond ring with an in house appraisal and no lab report and gave it to me. I wore it proudly for as long as the marriage lasted and when we divorced i gave it back to him because i didn't want to have any such symbolic objects carried in my new life. Years after, i met my second husband, who also had no idea about jewelry. He asked me what i wished for and i said that i wanted a pink sapphire and diamond ring, first because i LOVE pink sapphires and second because i wanted something different than the previous ring. He went to BIRKS Toronto, got the best ring that fitted the above description and was totally ripped off. After i saw it, i realized that the ring was beautiful but it didn't look like an engagement ring.I was sincere about this to my then fiance and now husband. He said that i could keep my original ER for sentimental reasons and he gave me a budget that i could use towards a ring that i would really like to wear as my ER for the rest of my life. With that money, i ended up getting a diamond ring which was much bigger than the first one (.90ct), GIA certified, triple ex cut, E color, VVS2 clarity, H&A (according to the independent appraisal that he had done afterwards). I was very happy about it and i consider myself very lucky BUT: All of the above happened without my fiance knowing anything about the ring that i received from the ex husband and only because he was as generous as to give me enough money to buy a ring that just happened to be "bigger and better". He didn't feel that he had to compete with the ex about the ring and neither did i. I would have said yes even if he had proposed with a plain gold band. It was just a lucky coincidence that he was willing to spend more money than the ex husband, in order to get me the ring that i really wanted and that he had that money to spend. If he didn't, i wouldn't have minded at all. Because indeed, it never had occured to me that such a rule exists and frankly, if it does, i find it a total nonsense...

ETA: I'm very sorry about the threadjack...

Naty DF is just pulling your chain and trying to rile you up Have you seen the signs are the zoo saying "Don't feed the bears?" Here in RT we need a "Don't feed Dancing Fire" signs made up too, as in don't give him attention by responding to his antics. He will come back at you with another quip, just you wait! [/quote]

He,he,he Thank you for the tip Dreamer Let's see what he comes up with next!!!

 

[GraceAva]

hi i'm sorry to hear about your situation and agree with all the advice given. i just wanted to add that you have no reason to feel guilty about this, your not being spoilt or picky. you will be wearing this ring for the rest of your life and you have every right not to feel resentment every time you look at it. i could not live with a ring knowing that my fiance had recycled it from a ring my ex gave me. to be honest if i were in your shoes i would be pretty angry!! also don't accept the jewelers first answer on the return, kick up a bit of a fuss if you have to. your not asking for anything thats totally unreasonable and im sure you have great negotiating skill with the job you do! good luck and i hope you get the ring of your dreams!

 

[300GCP]

Thanks everyone. I think I should clarify - I'm not mad at my fiancee and he isn't a "cheap" kind of guy. We did discuss this last night and I think what happened was a combination of rushing, over excitement, and a belief on his part instilled by the jeweler that this ring is an amazing ring despite the SI2 clarity rating. He was told by this jeweler that it just didn't make sense to pay more money for the sake of paying more, when he could get this deal. In fact, he felt insecure about that even after he got the ring and took the ring to ANOTHER jeweler who told him she thinks he is crazy to trade it. Sigh.

At this point, we both regret trading the original ring but I'm sure we're stuck at this point in the sense that we won't be getting it back from the jeweler, but have to deal with trading out this center stone, which we both agree we will do.

As far as the HCA thing goes, it's really rather confusing. I put my stone in and it came back with 1.9. I then put in the specs for literally 3 or 4 GIA "excellent" stones and they ALL came back in the 3-5 range. Seems that these two ways of gauging cut must be extremely different.

 

[hoofbeats95]

Oh YAY! I'm glad you guys talked and came to a decision. Hopefully you can work with the jeweler well enough to get a good stone. Doing things in a rush always backfires on me. So I understand what he means and how he felt. It sounds like the talk went well enough and you can move on. I think you gotta get to that jeweler asap though since it's been almost 2 weeks already.

I can't comment on the HCA thing. I'm a princess girl and have no clue how those rounds work! I have one well cut round and I got it from the BGD signature line so I didn't bother with the numbers. GOOD LUCK! Please post pics of the ring/stone that you end up with.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I am SO glad he is receptive to trading the stone! I don't care if it was the best deal in the world if it has visible inclusions..I wouldn't consider keeping it either!

The reason I suggested earlier requesting to see only GIA excellent stones is that it in itself is a WIDE category and some stones are better than others. So it is going to make the shopping much more complicated if you agree to look at very good cut stones.

My suggestion would be to go and tell him what you want and let him call some in but get the lab reports from him in advance. Then you can post them here and get comments before getting stuck again. But I'd rather see you end up with any GIA Excellent stone with no visible inclusions over the one you have now, because I think you'll be happy with it...we call it "mind-clean" here!

And I do want to add, I absolutely would have traded the old ring toward the new one! That was a great way of helping you get a great ring (better than the first) without having to pay the full cost, especially since diamonds have increased in value! The ring was YOURS to do with what you wanted, and I think you did the right thing. I just hope this diamond seller is a decent human being and will let you trade the stone for one you'll be happier with. I think he should because you'll be adding a few thousand to the price to get a better stone.

 

[Mayk]

My fiance' bought a ring before we were more educated and before we found this site. We made errors in the purchase if the center stone and the setting. We have now upgraded the center stone with the same jeweler and we are now looking to possibly change the setting. All in five months. They say change is good

 

[lbbaber]

[quote="300GCP You definitely don't sound harsh at all. The original ring when purchased cost $12k. Current fiancee got $7,800 for it. New ering cost $8,500 plus tax.

You are right, I do feel like previous fiancee bought the current e-ring, and that is definitely a huge contributing factor. The quality is also huge for me because of the fact that I can see the inclusion (I think). And yes, we are both lawyers, he is actually a partner at a big firm, so adding a bit more wouldn't have been a problem.

He told me about the experience with the jeweler, and basically the jeweler was saying he bought this stone in a prior year and hasn't sold it, and therefore can really give him a great deal on it. He also showed my fiancee to other stones - 1.65, F, VS2 and 1.81, F, VS2, which were both tens of thousands of dollars more. There was no in between.

I really am upset if I let myself admit it.

... so basically he fork out < $1000 bucks for your E-ring? ..IMO,he should at least match the $7800 that he gotten out of your original ring.

don't you know the rule that the second E-ring must be bigger and better quality than the first?..; ))[/quote]


Ha ha ha ha ha ha , love it!! TOOOO funny. When I started looking at rings with my current husband, I said the only rule is that it must be bigger and better than my ring from my 1st marriage Obviously it was tongue in cheek but HE wanted to do better too so why not??

OF COURSE the man is better than the 1st husband, if he wasn't we wouldnt have been looking at rings together.

And I DID get a better/bigger stone (1ct = 1st marriage, 1.61ct = 2nd marriage---I dont plan on a 3rd!!)

 

[Dreamer_D]

300GCP You have found a needle in the haystack by having a VG cut GIA stone that scores under 2 on the HCA. The vast majority will not. The GIA Ex cut grade is broader than many PSers like, and indeed broader than the HCA likes, as you can see by the poor scores on the GIA Ex stones you put into it. But if you try a sample of GIA VG stones, I bet they will also come out above a score of 2. AGS is much stricter on cut and if you want a more clear guideline to get a well cut stone, then restrict yourself to AGS0 cut grades. But, in my opinion, sticking with GIA EX is also a good way to make sure you are maximizing your chances of finding a really well cut stone. Much more than looking at GIA VG stones as well. So it is a good rule of thumb. You can then decide how "picky" you want to be about cut and whether you want a GIA EX cut that *also* falls under 2 on the HCA, or whether the GIA cut grade is enough for you.

FWIW I would also have traded in my original stone, but would have looked for *value* on the new stone, not just *price*. As you have seen, there is a world of difference. Your jewler cannot have sold your stone already (unless he sold it wholesale) so I think you should use your legal skills and push to get it back and a refund.

 

[Rock-a-Fella]

I think the idea was good in theory but disappointment waiting to happen in practice...As a man, I would have big issues with using a previous ring as funds towards my ring for my GF. The way I see it, there were two ways of using the funds, but neither is ideal:

1) Even trade in - The issue is obvious, previous guy bought your new ring
2) Use the ring to bump up the budget - Your new fiance couldnt have afforded the new ring if it wasnt for your previous fiance.

I look at engagement rings as a symbolic gesture that should come from the heart/wallet of one person, not monies commingled from two people. I wouldn't want my ring to have any connection with another guy. But I may be alone in this kind of thinking.

I must agree with J-Rock. It was a tough position for him. It could be viewed as: "you may not be able to afford the ring that I want so let me help you to get a bigger ring for me....and oh yeah, the money is coming from the man you are replacing." Luckily, it appears that he didn't see that way. But alas, you are now faced with another issue. As DS mentioned, we don't always "get it", and it is quite a bit easier to explain to us exactly what you want or expect (within reason, of course) because otherwise, we may miss the subtle hints. I do not think that it is too late to do this.

As for the current dilemma, I would definitely sit down and talk with him. At the end of the day, once you get past the hurt feelings and the male ego, men want "approval" and want to make you happy. Trust me - he does not want to know that you are walking around unhappily with the ring. It comes down to the approach and the manner in which it is communicated. FWIW, I think it will work out.

As for the ring, I would go back to the jeweler as quickly as possible. Go with your fiance. Make it a joint (read: learning for him) experience, and get something with which you are both happy. I am sure or should I say I hope that the jeweler has seen this situation before and is somewhat understanding.

[Full Disclosure - you may want to take my opinions with a grain of salt. Not engaged yet. Still waiting for the ring to be finished at the jeweler and then I am praying that she likes it]