Stop the INSANITY!

[fire&ice]

My head is going to explode. Diamonds are an art form. Diamonds are not an exact science. Any data can be manipulated. Any data has rounding or margin for error. Any eye can prefer one stone over the other. The prefered *Ideal* is in the EYE of the beholder.

How in the world is it prudent advice that the person needs MORE information on this stone?
F VS1 6.70 x 6.71
Depth 60.7
Table 55%
Crown 34.5
pav. 40.8
ex
ex
.........much more information included. Including that the stone can be viewed before purchasing.

Time after time I see stones nixed, dissed, replacement stones (not even in the desired specs) proposed, etc. because there is not enough information or the specs aren''t to some exacting nano specifications. Super duper loupers DO carry a PREMIUM. And, many a times a premium not worthy of what the eye sees. By all means, if the paper is important (like mentally needing a D/IF) than buy it. But, many times people come here because they want a stone with a very good make that''s pretty within their budget.

I''m all for someone getting a stone with a good make. I''m not denying that cut is VERY IMPORTANT. But, the level of disscusion on the nano specs have ratched up to the point that it''s irrelavent to end result. Too much information is not necessarily a good thing. It takes out the romance of the stone & the reduces the eye''s reaction.

I''m sure I will take quite a bit of heat for this. By all means discuss these things in thread specific. But, I think taking the nano discussions to a regular consumer is a disservice. JMHO - and not a popular one.

At the end of the day, I may let a machine weed out bad stones; but, a machine and it''s numbers aren''t going to let me decide anything. But, what do I know? I have actually prefered some 60/60 stones to some with exact and dutiful spec. Consider the source.

Keep in mind - much of this is with tongue firmly planted in cheek - but with some heart to it as well. The pendulum has swung. Maybe I''m just in tune with dinosaurs has been the diamond market.

 

[ladykemma]

go get 'em, tiger!

i agree. i use my eyeballs and a loupe. is it pretty or not?

on my fingers right now are:
my slightly deep engagement stone without pedigree
my pawn shop pear without pedigree
my canterbury junk shop stone in pave setting without pedigree.

remember blenhein all tangled up over this issue? she would get a stunning stone and then turn to regret when it didn't meet all the numbers. she finally just got the one that made her eyes happy.

i like 60/60s, i like steep deeps, i like shallows, i like color, like gliterata i have patience and interest in the imperfect.

 

[widget]

LOL....brave girl!!!

For what it''s worth, I agree with you 100%, F&I!!!!!

widget

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I agree. I wouldn''t have any problem ordering an AGS0 or a GIA excellent that fell within AGS0 range. Or stones that fall in the 1-2 range on the HCA ought to be just fine, too. Most of us would never be able to see the difference in some of the stones being compared on here. I do think there is validity to having parameters when ordering online just so you don''t have to pay shipping to see a large number of stones. But whether a crown angle is 34.52 or 34.53 isn''t worth debating, in my opinion.

 

[wonka27]

After stressing heavily while looking for my wife''s ering, I now realize that what fire says is true.

Tons of people have great diamonds on this board...all with different specs....no two are the same. So why do we stress so much about the numbers. Use the numbers as the map, but your eyes as the guide.

 

[devientdrow]

I agree with you and i''m glad you posted this. I''ve seen a couple people post specs to what seemed like good stones, like ones they have seen in person and all, and feel like oh no! It''s not good enough because people are saying it isn''t THE BEST! When we got my stone the one I had to compare it to was slightly better in cut and clarity. But I chose mine instead. There was just something about it that we liked. The only difference between my stone (now listed as a very good cut) and a GIA excellent is my girdle is very thin to medium. If my girdle was a *bit* thicker it would be excellent cut. I wonder if I would posted the specs for my diamond would people of told me that it wasn''t good enough

And I get compliments on mine non stop!

 

[Kaleigh]

Well said Fire & Ice!!!!

I also like to say use your eyes. You''re not wearing numbers on your hand. All this can get pretty crazy, and some of it is just over my head sometimes.

 

[Rhino]

Date: 8/20/2006 11:48:49 AM
Author:fire&ice
My head is going to explode. Diamonds are an art form. Diamonds are not an exact science. Any data can be manipulated. Any data has rounding or margin for error. Any eye can prefer one stone over the other. The prefered *Ideal* is in the EYE of the beholder.

How in the world is it prudent advice that the person needs MORE information on this stone?
F VS1 6.70 x 6.71
Depth 60.7
Table 55%
Crown 34.5
pav. 40.8
ex
ex
.........much more information included. Including that the stone can be viewed before purchasing.

Time after time I see stones nixed, dissed, replacement stones (not even in the desired specs) proposed, etc. because there is not enough information or the specs aren't to some exacting nano specifications. Super duper loupers DO carry a PREMIUM. And, many a times a premium not worthy of what the eye sees. By all means, if the paper is important (like mentally needing a D/IF) than buy it. But, many times people come here because they want a stone with a very good make that's pretty within their budget.

I'm all for someone getting a stone with a good make. I'm not denying that cut is VERY IMPORTANT. But, the level of disscusion on the nano specs have ratched up to the point that it's irrelavent to end result. Too much information is not necessarily a good thing. It takes out the romance of the stone & the reduces the eye's reaction.

I'm sure I will take quite a bit of heat for this. By all means discuss these things in thread specific. But, I think taking the nano discussions to a regular consumer is a disservice. JMHO - and not a popular one.

At the end of the day, I may let a machine weed out bad stones; but, a machine and it's numbers aren't going to let me decide anything. But, what do I know? I have actually prefered some 60/60 stones to some with exact and dutiful spec. Consider the source.

Keep in mind - much of this is with tongue firmly planted in cheek - but with some heart to it as well. The pendulum has swung. Maybe I'm just in tune with dinosaurs has been the diamond market.

Hi F&I,

While I am personally a nut for details and an advocate for getting as much as possible on an important purchase I couldn't agree more with your sentiments. There are diamonds on the market that would be anathema to some folks here that are simply not what they are made out to be when viewed in a practical exam (normal common lighting environments). You may find this statement odd coming from me, but while I do employ technologies into our purchasing decisions etc. I will never advocate allowing a technology to think for someone else. A comment was made in another thread I didn't respond to but made me stop and think ... the comment was to the effect ... "the technology does this thinking for you ..." (can't recall the exact details but was to this effect), and my immediate thoughts were "God forbid!". Working with many of the current technologies, I can tell you from experience that there is no technology that includes a crystal ball that can predict the human psyche and what each individual deems as most beautiful. Technologies work great for weeding out what may be considered most rare, but I will testify that most rare isn't what always appeals to each individual's personal tastes. IMHO it ultimatelly depends on what is guiding the individual's purchase. Is it "most rare" or is it "most beautiful to the eyes of whom will be wearing it for the rest of their life". Often the 2 coincide, but there are certainly cases wherein they do not which is why I am a strong advocate of folks seeing and comparing before a final determination is concluded.

My .02c.

 

[ladykemma]

i have a 1/3 carat diamond from ZALES that stops traffic. it gets about a 4 on the HCA. but tell that to the stopped traffic.

not afraid of mall stores either, but, ya have to know what you''re doing.

 

[strmrdr]

There are few people that have seen enough top end stones to pick them by eye and the lighting in jewelery stores is designed to be deceptive and make frozen spit shine.
One way consumers can fight that is with ideal-scopes and aset scopes.
That is why I recommend them.
They give power back to consumers over the sellers.

furthermore.....
Sure she has to love the looks of it,,,
But understanding why it is better and the tech behind it is just as important to me.
It is after all an overpriced chunk of rock.....
I refuse to join the collective and go back to the dark ages of diamond buying where the seller holds all the aces.
To be honest if it wasn''t for the tech Id never buy diamonds sure they are pretty and a super-ideal the best of the lot, but they pale in comparison to even a mid range ruby or even a well cut zircon.

 

[KristyDarling]

I''m so with you, F&I. Those are pretty much all the specs I need too.....and even though I''m generally familiar with the "ideal range", I ended up buying an "old" AGS0 that scores a 2.8 on the HCA! Sacrilege! My stone just appealed to my eyes in a way that the other stone I was considering (a true ideal with great HCA) did not. But there''s a science to everything including diamonds, along with experts and specialists to debate the fine details. Personally, those details make my head spin....I''ve got enough going on in my life already!

 

[devientdrow]

Date: 8/20/2006 12:28:59 PM
Author: strmrdr
There are few people that have seen enough top end stones to pick them by eye and the lighting in jewelery stores is designed to be deceptive and make frozen spit shine.
One way consumers can fight that is with ideal-scopes and aset scopes.
That is why I recommend them.
They give power back to consumers over the sellers.

furthermore.....
Sure she has to love the looks of it,,,
But understanding why it is better and the tech behind it is just as important to me.
It is after all an overpriced chunk of rock.....
I refuse to join the collective and go back to the dark ages of diamond buying where the seller holds all the aces.
To be honest if it wasn''t for the tech Id never buy diamonds sure they are pretty and a super-ideal the best of the lot, but they pale in comparison to even a mid range ruby or even a well cut zircon.

I agree I wouldn''t want to not have any of these guides. I think it''s just a lot of people are glad to have guidlines and tools to let them know how to choose the best, but also to let people know that just because a diamond doesn''t have the PERFECT numbers, if it''s good and and you see it and love it, then it''s perfectly fine to purchase it.

 

[aljdewey]

F&I, I think that even the "spec freaks" here would agree with you that the final determinant should be one's eyes. I've said it myself many a time here....if you've seen it and you like it, GET IT. No one else can tell you what you'll find beautiful yourself.

But, as DS points out, many times people are making decisions without seeing first, and for that group, I do think that more information is important. When I've bought diamonds online without seeing them first, the specs have been very important to me. During my last trip to WF, I picked out my solitaire pendant with NO specs.....simply lined up a few stones and picked what my eye kept coming back to.

I think than an appreciation for fine cut make is not much different than an appreciate for "mind-clean" things like high color and high clarity. I can't see a diff between VVS and VS, but I can respect those whose find a mental comfort in it might want it.

Thankfully, the nature of PS lends itself to many different opinions providing balance.

It's up to the people asking to extract from the many opinions offered what resonates to them.

There are two different things to consider with diamonds: are they beautiful and are they worth the price being asked? Only your eye can tell you if it's beautiful to you, but the specs do determine if the asking price is a fair one. So for me, both things matter.

 

[decodelighted]

Date: 8/20/2006 12:28:59 PM
Author: strmrdr
Sure she has to love the looks of it,,, But understanding why it is better and the tech behind it is just as important to me.

IMO-- the one that LOOKS better IS better. Paper/#s/science be darned. As has been said a million times, you''re not wearing the stats or the cert around.

To be honest if it wasn''t for the tech Id never buy diamonds

Exactly. So you''re not really a *diamond* lover ... you''re a TECH lover. But we know this isn''t really true ''cause you''re brave enough to love a stone that can''t truly be "ideal"-ized yet.

Personally, I consider/weigh all the options & stats & opinions & generalities etc ... but have enough confidence in my own "GUT" to know what I like, what resonates with me (perfect or imperfect or perfectly imperfect). I''m sure there are folks that followed their guts and got "new" AGS 000''s when they were assessed otherwise. It''s a fluid system, "ratings", analysis, etc ... and reliant on trends about what is the desired feature of "the day". Who can deny the etherial beauty of an "imperfect" chunky faceted but RAINBOWRIFFIC OEC??? Take THAT Holloway.

 

[fire&ice]

Date: 8/20/2006 12:28:59 PM
Author: strmrdr
.

furthermore.....
Sure she has to love the looks of it,,,
But understanding why it is better and the tech behind it is just as important to me.
It is after all an overpriced chunk of rock.....
To be honest if it wasn''t for the tech Id never buy diamonds sure they are pretty and a super-ideal the best of the lot, but they pale in comparison to even a mid range ruby or even a well cut zircon.

First of all, I''ve never purchased or viewed one for consideration with a eyeball only in jewelry store lights. I leave my purse or they can walk outside with me. Only once did a jeweler have issue - and that stone was dead, dead, dead.

Second, the science is what you like about diamonds. And, I can have respect for that. They are a bit of a marvel in and amoungst themselves. You really are in the minority. Most people just like those pretty overpriced chunk of rock. And, it certainly has proven (be it marketing or not) a LONG LONG history of romance attached.

My point with this & I see people are receiving it in the vien it was meant - is that the pendulum needs to be kept in check.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 8/20/2006 1:02:44 PM
Author: decodelighted

Date: 8/20/2006 12:28:59 PM
Author: strmrdr
Sure she has to love the looks of it,,, But understanding why it is better and the tech behind it is just as important to me.

IMO-- the one that LOOKS better IS better. Paper/#s/science be darned. As has been said a million times, you're not wearing the stats or the cert around.

To be honest if it wasn't for the tech Id never buy diamonds

Exactly. So you're not really a *diamond* lover ... you're a TECH lover. But we know this isn't really true 'cause you're brave enough to love a stone that can't truly be 'ideal'-ized yet.

Personally, I consider/weigh all the options & stats & opinions & generalities etc ... but have enough confidence in my own 'GUT' to know what I like, what resonates with me (perfect or imperfect or perfectly imperfect). I'm sure there are folks that followed their guts and got 'new' AGS 000's when they were assessed otherwise. It's a fluid system, 'ratings', analysis, etc ... and reliant on trends about what is the desired feature of 'the day'. Who can deny the etherial beauty of an 'imperfect' chunky faceted but RAINBOWRIFFIC OEC??? Take THAT Holloway.

That is true Asschers are the diamonds that I do love :}
But I love them more once I figured them out.
Iv spent hours looking at them but have spent hundreds of hours with tech figuring them out.
Because I love them I was/am driven to spend the time figuring them out.

 

[Mara]

strm, but wouldn't you say that 'hundreds of hours figuring them out with the tech' is still no comparison for viewing them with your actual EYES and being able to corroborate what the #'s tell you? using diamcalc is one thing, but if people have not seen enough stones, they can't really say *definitively* what they are looking at 'virtually' IMO.

on the original topic: i agree F&I that sometimes the number nitpicking can get pretty insane. most of this LGF talk and all that to me is going far above and beyond what the average consumer needs to know (even PS'ers)...i have managed to choose some amazing stones without knowing those tiny nuances. each diamond does have it's own personality.

the problem with virtual shopping is that you only have the numbers and reports and the photographic images to make your virtual decision. there have been times when people get a superideal shipped out to them and they don't like it!!! imagine that. but the majority of the rest of the PS'ers tend to learn enough here to just be dangerous, make their decision on what typically is an eye popping stone, and most of the time they love their decision or choice. but virtually the more information the better...though that stone that you posted about, if it came with an idealscope and an image of the stone itself, and the vendor was trustworthy and could eyeball the stone for me, then that would be all i would need to make a decision one way or the next.

the other issue you run into on PS is that people have their own sets of visual preferences, from experience on viewing the stones and comparing them to the #'s and knowing what their eyes will see. you can't knock a set of personal preferences, that's just what someone likes. so in reality a 62 depth may not be MY cup of tea but someone else may love it or be fine with it. i think as long as people say what their personal preferences are rather than laying it out as 'gospel'...no one is really misled. not everyone has to agree on what the recipe for a perfect stone is. many of us DON'T agree.

anyway, i'd much rather have a nitpicky bunch of PS'ers who scrutinize more than is really necessary than someone random going 'well if your eyes love it, then just get it!'...because i did that once and my eyes lied to me and guess what, the #'s were right. the stone wasn't a great one. but my eyes got 'emotional' and that's easy to do when you are shopping in person. i won't just buy from sight ever again. i have a range of requirements number wise and image wise and then my eyes have to corroborate it for it to be a done deal.

 

[lizz]

F&I, you go girl!

I agree with you all the way. It irks me to no end when people say to only buy an asscher with ex/ex polish and symmetry or a cushion with ex/ex specs. It''s ludicrous. My cushion has fair symmetry, but excellent polish and is just beautiful. But then again, I''m not one who seeks perfection in diamonds. I think the flaws/imperfections are much more interesting.

 

[strmrdr]

Mara iv seen enough asschers to verify what the tech is telling me.
To the extent of recreating what iv seen in actual in virtual.

 

[Mara]

Date: 8/20/2006 4:36:37 PM
Author: strmrdr
Mara iv seen enough asschers to verify what the tech is telling me.
To the extent of recreating what iv seen in actual in virtual.

strm, i'm in a large metropolitan area and there aren't that many asschers around me, many of the high end jewelry stores i have gone into don't even carry them, so i have only seen maybe a handful in person, and many of those are antique cuts...can you elaborate on where have you been so lucky to see so many of them, and obviously not just look at them in something like a ring, but be able to get enough specs and information to model them in virtual? i feel like i'm missing out!!

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 8/20/2006 4:45:08 PM
Author: Mara

Date: 8/20/2006 4:36:37 PM
Author: strmrdr
Mara iv seen enough asschers to verify what the tech is telling me.
To the extent of recreating what iv seen in actual in virtual.

strm, i'm in a large metropolitan area and there aren't that many asschers around me, many of the high end jewelry stores i have gone into don't even carry them, so i have only seen maybe a handful in person, and many of those are antique cuts...can you elaborate on where have you been so lucky to see so many of them, and obviously not just look at them in something like a ring, but be able to get enough specs and information to model them in virtual? i feel like i'm missing out!!

Cant say where but no they didn't have scans and many where in rings but taking what I saw and recreating it in virtual is how I learned. How do you get that pattern? How come that huge table looked nasty? stuff like that.
From there moved on to photos and helium scans... why did that asscher look that way.
Stuff like that.
While not perfect its enough to verify what I was doing. ASET was a huge help because it provides a consistent environment.

 

[devientdrow]

Date: 8/20/2006 3:12:09 PM
Author: Mara
strm, but wouldn''t you say that ''hundreds of hours figuring them out with the tech'' is still no comparison for viewing them with your actual EYES and being able to corroborate what the #''s tell you? using diamcalc is one thing, but if people have not seen enough stones, they can''t really say *definitively* what they are looking at ''virtually'' IMO.

on the original topic: i agree F&I that sometimes the number nitpicking can get pretty insane. most of this LGF talk and all that to me is going far above and beyond what the average consumer needs to know (even PS''ers)...i have managed to choose some amazing stones without knowing those tiny nuances. each diamond does have it''s own personality.

the problem with virtual shopping is that you only have the numbers and reports and the photographic images to make your virtual decision. there have been times when people get a superideal shipped out to them and they don''t like it!!! imagine that. but the majority of the rest of the PS''ers tend to learn enough here to just be dangerous, make their decision on what typically is an eye popping stone, and most of the time they love their decision or choice. but virtually the more information the better...though that stone that you posted about, if it came with an idealscope and an image of the stone itself, and the vendor was trustworthy and could eyeball the stone for me, then that would be all i would need to make a decision one way or the next.

the other issue you run into on PS is that people have their own sets of visual preferences, from experience on viewing the stones and comparing them to the #''s and knowing what their eyes will see. you can''t knock a set of personal preferences, that''s just what someone likes. so in reality a 62 depth may not be MY cup of tea but someone else may love it or be fine with it. i think as long as people say what their personal preferences are rather than laying it out as ''gospel''...no one is really misled. not everyone has to agree on what the recipe for a perfect stone is. many of us DON''T agree.

anyway, i''d much rather have a nitpicky bunch of PS''ers who scrutinize more than is really necessary than someone random going ''well if your eyes love it, then just get it!''...because i did that once and my eyes lied to me and guess what, the #''s were right. the stone wasn''t a great one. but my eyes got ''emotional'' and that''s easy to do when you are shopping in person. i won''t just buy from sight ever again. i have a range of requirements number wise and image wise and then my eyes have to corroborate it for it to be a done deal.

No matter how romantic anyones views on this thread are I don''t think anyone is saying just eyeball them and go from there. Although if thats what someone wanted to do, and it made them happy then so be it! I just think it was meant to bring some balence into things. To not rely only upon numbers, but to utilize them to help you know the quality and what your eyes are looking at. But I know you know what i''m saying, I know your stone you played around with the color and clarity to get the size you wanted and it''s gorgeous!

 

[fire&ice]

Date: 8/20/2006 5:23:00 PM
Author: devientdrow

Date: 8/20/2006 3:12:09 PM
Author: Mara
strm, but wouldn''t you say that ''hundreds of hours figuring them out with the tech'' is still no comparison for viewing them with your actual EYES and being able to corroborate what the #''s tell you? using diamcalc is one thing, but if people have not seen enough stones, they can''t really say *definitively* what they are looking at ''virtually'' IMO.

I just think it was meant to bring some balence into things. To not rely only upon numbers, but to utilize them to help you know the quality and what your eyes are looking at.!

Precisely - to bring a balance. It''s often missing. And, of late, the information seems to be driving the boat more than the stone itself.

And, I can''t believe we are discussing the nano specs of asshers on THIS thread.

 

[Mara]

actually devient, surprisingly enough imo there are some PS''ers who believe eye is what you should rely on, numbers be damned. to me there is that balance. for some the balance is more numbers less eye, and others its more eye less numbers. but some people are too numbers or too eye.

 

[Diamond*Dana]

I agree with you 100& F&I! I look with my eyes, not with what is on paper...if it is pretty and sparkly and does what it should, it is beautiful!

 

[pricescope]

M>We are never gonna survive unless we get a little crazy[/i]" - Seal

Great topic, F&I.

As in any subject one can go to extreme of demanding numbers or romance and glamor. Most people are falling in between because of many personal factors.

I personally wouldn't buy without checking some basic numbers but also wouldn't split hairs. Getting accurate information also serves the purpose of figuring out whether your vendor knows this stuff and the price is reasonable.

Buying only because it's sparkly can cost you.

However, it is not the end of the world as long as you happy and enjoying the ride.

Some may also say "There are other more useful and beautiful things you can do or buy for your money. Don't buy diamonds, Stop the INSANITY."

Indeed

"I mean, if a thing's worth doing, it's worth doing right." - Hunter S. Thompson

 

[fire&ice]

Date: 8/20/2006 7:21:46 PM
Author: Pricescope

''We are never gonna survive unless we get a little crazy'' - Seal​

''I mean, if a thing''s worth doing, it''s worth doing right.'' - Hunter S. Thompson

But - and a big butt - Who is the person deciding what is "worth doing right''?

What is right? With me, science be darned.

I''m seeing too much dismissing and less discussion about the negatives & the POSTIVES of a stone.

Nothing new here - I''m a rebel in that I LOVE blue fluor. Instead of dissing it, the Cap''t said that someone told him that perfect "ideal" diamonds couldn''t come from fluor rough. Made sense. Still didn''t care -

To me - a perpective not a rule. What outways the other? Personal.

 

[Kaleigh]

I''m all about getting the specs, numbers etc... Sarins, IS images and the like. Sometimes people debate 2 stones that are extremly tight and then that''s where I see people splitting hairs. When in fact both stones will be amazing. I want to be an informed consumer and can''t be that without all the specs, especially if buying sight unseen. But have to say, I trust my eyes more now with the knowledge I have gained from PS. So it''s a balance.

 

[canuk-gal]

Date: 8/20/2006 7:54:32 PM
Author: fire&ice

Date: 8/20/2006 7:21:46 PM

.

To me - a perpective not a rule.

HI:

"The Code? They are really more like guidelines anyway", (Captain Jack Sparrow).

Good thread F & I.

cheers--Sharon

 

[ccuheartnurse]

F & I you are right of course that its best to SEE the actual stone. I was having dinner with my husband tonight & I mentioned it to him that my brother asked me to look for a stone. He kinda went "OH-OH" because he knows how crazy I get & how nutty I became helping his sister get her stone. I told him that when we got our stone 4yrs ago there wasnt as much info. as there is today. What I was referring to was the star facet & LGF info. I kinda chuckled & told him that that info wasnt the norm back then but its becoming that way now. He shook his head & asked if an ideal cut was still ideal. I said yes, but now theres a different way to assess ideals. He said I was going to blow my head off my body trying to figure this out. He said my stone was a killer stone & we didnt have that information back then & we still dont today & it doesnt change the fact the stone is wonderful to both of us. So yes, how far are we going to go with evaluating these stones?!

What Mara was referring to about virtual shopping is definitely true, we need to have some #''s to help weed out the poor stones. For a lot of us Canadians, having multiple stones shipped across the border is very tricky. Often times we''ll cross the border to pick up the goods. Dealing with Can. customs is a big pain in the butt. So for us, we need the #''s to help with that. Often times, locally, if I ask to look at an ideal cut I might as well be asking for the moon. Apart from using your bodily organs as collateral, its hard for a vendor to bring in the goods to see & compare.

I can see your frustration because lately there have been many posts splitting hairs on the specs. Heck, I''ve been around for 4yrs but for the life of me cant figure out this SF & LGF stuff. If the vendor says that 57 SF & 77 LGF is prime & the stone is a killer stone, I will trust their expert eyes to tell me that. In the end, should it make a difference when I see it, no. I will either like it or not. A lot of you guys are good with these advanced #''s, but I''m not good with them. Just the same, I''m still going to ask what they are then spend hours on PS trying to figure out this information.

I talk to much. In summary, I think way too much is spent on specific #''s. Most consumers want a fair price for a nice stone. Most are never going to write a thesis on what makes a diamond tick.

Most consumers are going to be proud of what they have either purchased for their intended & most want to see the joy the diamond gives their fiances. I never get asked what the specs are on my stone, most times its "how big is that?". Ok, most times I get that from women.

Judy