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Stone comparison: 1.5 F SI1 or 1.53 G SI1 Inclusion dilemma!

nelly81

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 16, 2011
Messages
40
Hi there,
Looking for more expert advice please!
I have made a recent post in regards to opinions re a stone I was looking. I have now received the stone for viewing and it has a 14 day full refund period which is great!
Certficate is attached below for your reference. The stone looks stunning in terms of colour, sparkle, great spread, cut etc!! No issues at all.
However, although the stone was confirmed as eye clean by the supplier, the inclusion (just off the centre as per the cert diagram) is slightly visible. I wouldn't describe it as black, but not white obviously. It is very easy to spot on the side (which I dont mind) but I am a bit concerned that closer up, face up, on the diamond, i can see it if I really, really look for it from a few inches away! I think as per the eye clean definitions (i.e, 10 inched away, face up, standard light) it cannot be seen, but closer up, you can.
What would you do?
Should I expect that as the norm for SI1 stones?
Will it become less obvious in a setting?
Is this too much of a compromise?
Should I continue my search for an SI1 in a better location? I am assuming closer to the edge of the stone would be better and less obvious?
The stone was $17,100.
I know that it all depends how 'mind clean' it is for me but I was hoping for some expert advice, especially in comparisons with the other stone.

I had a quick search on 'Good Old Gold' for another comparion. I found the following stone which is yet to be confirmed as eye clean.
Pros: The main inclusion (although it is hard to see the other inclusions based on the poor quality of the attached AGS cert) looks like ti can be covered by a prong? is that right? Although I am concerned as to the colour of the inclusion and it cmpromises the overall strength of the stone as it is close to the edge?
Assuming all that is ok, the colour is also an E (versus an F) of the previous stone and has a smaller spread although larger carats. I think the spread is technically a bit small for what you would expect of the carat size. The HCA tool also confirmed this. HCA stats sproved better on the above stone, but i am unsure about the inclusion!
The GOG website has all of the ideal scopes etc if you want to check it out in the following location.
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/8399/
Price is $17,419

What are your thoughts? Is this stone even worth looking at based on the specs? Does it have any chance of being superior (if it was confirmed to be eye clean)?

Not sure if I should get a refund on the other stone I have and give this one from Good Old Gold a go if it has potential?

Ideally I am after a 1.5 size stone (with a 7.4 spread minimum), ideally F and and an eye clean SI1 (based on budget). Obviously, VS2 would be my ideal! :o)

Is it worth it to keep looking? It seems like 1.5 stones with the right spread are so rare!!!

Your thoughts would be appreciated!!!

ags pic.jpg
 

Attachments

nelly81

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 16, 2011
Messages
40
Re: Stone comparison: 1.5 F SI1 or 1.53 G SI1 Inclusion dile

I should have mentioned above! I am unsure if a down grade in colour and size is worth it for the the chance of a less visible inclusions( although this is yet to be confirmed) as the stone is still graded as an S11 and prices are similar! :cry:
 

slg47

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
9,667
Re: Stone comparison: 1.5 F SI1 or 1.53 G SI1 Inclusion dile

the spread looks fine on the GOG stone. If it is eye-clean to your standards I think it is an excellent choice.

You have to decide what 'eye-clean' means to you...for some people that means no visible inclusions from top view or side view at any distance in all lighting, for some people it means at a casual glance no obvious inclusions.
 

yssie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
21,128
Re: Stone comparison: 1.5 F SI1 or 1.53 G SI1 Inclusion dile

1. Numbers on the GIA are fine, without more info/scans/pics we can't tell you more than that. Don't worry too much about Ex spread on HCA - it requires <60.3 I believe, many lovely stones have much higher depths. Yes, this will affect face-up size, how much (and how visible it is, if at all) depends on how the specific stone in question is proportioned.

2. Eyeclean SI1 - yes, SI1 does NOT guarantee anything about eyeclean w/ the naked eye from a certain distance. This is because of the way stones are graded - the grade tells you nothing about real-world visibility/durability/light return compromises. More on clarity grading here
If you know you have excellent close-range vision and you know you are going to peer at your stone closely often, and you know visible inclusions are going to bother you, I would suggest moving to a higher clarity and dropping other specs - for two reasons: 1. Eyeclean SI1s by my standards are common, but one that meets YOUR standards, which sound more rigorous (which is fine!) may take some time to find, and 2. I think if you have an SI1 you'll be constantly searching for the inclusions, and it'll be a 'mindclean' thing. An SI1 w/ a giant crystal at the very edge of the girdle such that it can be pronged will cost more on the market than an SI1 w/ close-range visible inclusions that can't be hidden w/ the right setting, because it's a more "valuable" and "desirable" SI1, and people will be willing to pay more for it, so if you go this route don't expect a fantastic deal.


3. The GOG looks like a gorgeous stone - you have more info, like hearts and arrows photos, IS/ASET, by which to judge type of light return you can expect, optical symmetry, etc. WIthout more info on the GIA it's hard to help you judge which is "better", or which your eyes whill prefer IRL - *that* we can't judge at all, you'd have to have the GOG shipped out to you or to a local appraiser and go play with them both and find out what your eyes think.
Ditto slg - is the GOG confirmed eyeclean to YOUR requirements (each vendor has an in-house standard definition of the term 'eyeclean', which may or may not match what you are looking for)
 

iheartscience

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 1, 2007
Messages
12,111
Re: Stone comparison: 1.5 F SI1 or 1.53 G SI1 Inclusion dile

I would recommend putting that GOG diamond on hold if you're seriously considering it. Lurkers have been known to snag posted stones.
 

LGK

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 27, 2007
Messages
2,975
Re: Stone comparison: 1.5 F SI1 or 1.53 G SI1 Inclusion dile

Well, there *are* SI1s that bear up under intense, nearsighted scrutiny from all angles ;)) :rolleyes:- I know this because I have one, a 1.22 ct OEC which was graded by EGL-USA no less. But, they're the rarity. Definitely. If you are going to put your eyeball right up against the stone and study it very. very. carefully. Then yes, there are a whole bunch of SI clarity stones that aren't going to be "eyeclean" like that. But a few that are. It's just a matter of communicating what you want to your vendor of choice- because yes, the typical definition of eyeclean per most vendors is something like no visible inclusions 8-10" away face up. So plenty that will pass the latter test will flunk the former, if you get what I'm saying. Also, if you have exceptionally good closeup vision, you may well find that what someone else cannot see no matter what, you can.

SI clarity is simply not for everyone. They are included, it's their nature, and often times even the ones that appear totally eyeclean 99% of the time (even to nearsighted nuts like myself) will occasionally encounter a type of lighting that will make an inclusion suddenly visible. For example my aforementioned quite eyclean SI1, if I tilt it just right in bright spotlight, I can backlight one part of the feather and you can see it against the brightly reflecting facet behind it. I'd still call it as eyeclean as an SI1 gets.

If you have to lower color or size, go for it if you will find yourself fixating on the inclusion.
 

nelly81

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 16, 2011
Messages
40
Re: Stone comparison: 1.5 F SI1 or 1.53 G SI1 Inclusion dile

Hi there,
Thanks for your posts everyone!! I have decided not to go with the original SI1 stone (GIA) - as mentioned, it just was not mind clean enough for me!!!! I know i would just stare at the black inclusion all the time!!

In regards to the 1.53 GOG stone (AGS certificate attached below), I used the HCA calculator to receive a score of 1.5? is that ok? It seems like it is.
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/8399/

I am concerned however at the results of the AGA/ NAJA Cit Class tool. I ran the scores to get a score of 3A? i am not sure if I did something wrong but I dont think I did as I checked the numbers. Any thoughts on this result and what it means as AGS has rated it as an AGS 000. Please let me know if I should be concerned about this. Apparently a score of 3A is not so great?

In regards to the additional clouds included in the notes of the cert, are they likely to impact the apperance of the sparke, fire, scint etc of the stone??

I spoke to GOG who confirmed that the stone is eye clean - however the feather on the side can be noticed but easily covered with a prong. Any comments on this advice? It has been confirmed that there are no black inclusions. Please refer to the magnified images on the GOG website. Although the certificate looks quite messy in terms on inclusions on the certificate, it appears to be eye clean.

Can anyone comment on GOG international returns policy? Any issues experienced?

What are you general thoughts on the GOG stone?

I was originally looking at an F colour when I started looking but there seem to be more choices at G. Is an F colour noticably different to an E colour to the naked eye?

As always, THANKS!!!! :appl:
 

MissGotRocks

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jun 23, 2005
Messages
12,674
Re: Stone comparison: 1.5 F SI1 or 1.53 G SI1 Inclusion dile

The GOG stone scores an overall 1A. Some of the figures it asks for are degrees; some are percentages. When you input the correct figures, the only 1B it gets is for crown (I guess this particular system likes a shallower crown) but everything else is 1A and therefore so is the cut grade.

Having said all of that, GOG will be able to give you all the info you could ever want or need on this stone so I wouldn't get too hung up on the HCA or AGA. I'm sure it is a beautiful stone - only question being the inclusion and whether a) you can see it or b) if it can be covered with a prong.

I have a completely eyeclean SI1 - some have said they would have graded it at least VS2 - but they are not always easy to find. My only advice to you though is not to settle on anything that you find disturbing. Those kinds of inclusions (and I'm referring to the first stone you posted) usually only bug you more and more as time goes by.
 

dreamer_dachsie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
24,364
Re: Stone comparison: 1.5 F SI1 or 1.53 G SI1 Inclusion dile

I am an eagle eye and have an SI1 stone that is eye clean and it has a table inclusion to boot. You can find them but need to assess them individually.
 

centralsquare

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 18, 2009
Messages
2,201
Re: Stone comparison: 1.5 F SI1 or 1.53 G SI1 Inclusion dile

I have SI earrings and I wouldn't pay for VS2. If I can't see it under normal conditions, then I don't want to pay for better!
 
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