shape
carat
color
clarity

Specific Gravity of Grade B Jadeite

Discussion in 'Colored Gemstones' started by ChaiK, Sep 27, 2018.

  1. ChaiK
    Brilliant_Rock

    Messages:
    566
    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2018
    by ChaiK » Sep 27, 2018
    I would be grateful for some help on this.

    Is it true that ALL Grade B jadeite have a specific gravity of less than 3.33?

    So, if on a certificate, the specific gravity is 3.31 or 3.32, then the jadeite in question is suspected as Grade B?

    Would it be possible for Grade A jadeite to have a specific gravity lower than 3.33?

    I ask because the vendor of a bangle states that it is Grade A jadeite, but the specific gravity on the certificate is 3.31. And I am of course alerted. There is no other certification to rely on apart from theirs, as vendor is in China.

    Their asking price is equivalent to that of Grade A jadeite, because they claim it is Grade A. I can't help feeling a bit iffy about this one. They don't list their bangles as grade A. For all their bangles, they only state natural jadeite, natural colour. But specific gravity on the certificates vary, from 3.2 to 3.30 and maybe one or two at 3.33.

    Thank you in advance for your thoughts and advice.
     
    LightBright likes this.
  2. peacechick
    Brilliant_Rock

    Messages:
    1,087
    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2013
    by peacechick » Sep 27, 2018
    Is it a vendor that has been mentioned before in the Jadeite thread here? Is it a vendor that makes it easy for you to return the item if it turns out not to be Grade A? Do you have any means of testing it yourself e.g. a reliable lab near you? Those are the questions I would ask if I am looking at buying jade.
     
    ChaiK likes this.
  3. Bluegemz
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    3,228
    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2017
    by Bluegemz » Sep 27, 2018
    It is true that grade A jadeite has a specific gravity range,. In general, grade B jade will be on the lighter side of the range if spot treated, and considerably lighter if heavily treated. This is tough because it depends a lot in the starting density of the original stone, which is variable depending on what other minerals are present within it. For this agglomerate stone to be classified as jadeite, it needs to be at least 80% jadeite. There are examples where jadeite is less, such as Turkish jade, which has 50% jade in it.
     
    LightBright, cflutist and ChaiK like this.
  4. ChaiK
    Brilliant_Rock

    Messages:
    566
    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2018
    by ChaiK » Sep 27, 2018
    Oh, Hello Bluegemz. Did you get that lavender cab tested? I have bought something from Jasmine as well. A dragon carving I want to set as a bracelet.

    Are you happy with the lavender cabochon she sent you?

    Thank you.
     
  5. ChaiK
    Brilliant_Rock

    Messages:
    566
    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2018
    LightBright and cflutist like this.
  6. Bluegemz
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    3,228
    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2017
    by Bluegemz » Sep 27, 2018
    Yes I did get it tested. The report says that there is no polymer impregnation, but that they could not determine color origin. I called the GIA gemologist and he explained that this happens with about 10% of lavender jadeite which they receive, has to do with the magnesium level in the spot of the cabochon which they tested. I emailed the seller about this and she assured me that it is guaranteed A grade. I’m just going to trust that it is at this point with 2 certifications. I just don’t feel like sending it out again. All in all I’m happy with it, but would have been happier if it didn’t have that unclear color origin part.
    Would love to see the dragon which you got.
     
    ChaiK likes this.
  7. ChaiK
    Brilliant_Rock

    Messages:
    566
    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2018
    by ChaiK » Sep 28, 2018
    I was going to get a purple buddha from her....so not doing that anymore.
    I will post the dragon jadeite here. It is a white one.
     
  8. Bluegemz
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    3,228
    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2017
    by Bluegemz » Sep 28, 2018
    My feeling is that the color is natural based on how it looks under microscope, Apparently, lavender jade can be especially difficult to test for color origin. I was told by a collector that previously, GIA didn’t test lavender jade for color origin at all but now does. I was surprised to hear that 10% of lavender jade, they cannot make a conclusive test. Maybe I should have sent it to s different lab, but I had a credit there I wanted to use up.
    If I end up sending it to another lab, and there is a problem, she would refund me, so that is reassuring.
     
    ChaiK likes this.
  9. icy_jade
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    2,113
    Joined:
    May 1, 2009
    by icy_jade » Sep 28, 2018
    My usual jade vendor also says anything below 3.33 is probably treated. One other factor to consider is the lab... have heard that the China labs are not so reliable. So even if there is a cert from a Chinese lab, probably still best to send to a trusted lab to verify. Hong Kong lab is good though.
     
    ChaiK likes this.
  10. ChaiK
    Brilliant_Rock

    Messages:
    566
    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2018
    by ChaiK » Sep 28, 2018
    Haha, I bought a fat buddha from her, just for a laugh.

    Still not sure about the other vendor. Reading up about Jadeite. Specific gravity range can be between 3.25 and 3.40. So not sure where to turn now.

    The bangle is from another vendor. Vietnamese certification though.
    Buddha ring.jpg
     
  11. PrecisionGem
    Brilliant_Rock
    Trade

    Messages:
    1,605
    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2004
    by PrecisionGem » Sep 29, 2018
    To measure specific gravity on a stone that small with accuracy to the second decimal place is almost impossible. Look up calculating relative error in measurements, and how specific gravity is measured.
     
    cflutist and ChaiK like this.
  12. ChaiK
    Brilliant_Rock

    Messages:
    566
    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2018
    by ChaiK » Sep 29, 2018
    Oh, not, it is not the specific gravity of this green buddha.

    It is the specific gravity of a bangle. At 3.30. I am not sure.....
     
  13. prs
    Shiny_Rock

    Messages:
    372
    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2017
    by prs » Oct 8, 2018
    @Bluegemz DW and I have been on the lookout for a lavender jade stone ever since you showed us your gorgeous pendant in the Pendants and Necklaces thread. They are few and far between with ebay being the most plentiful source, and most of the stones there are surrounded with diamond and amethyst halos. Here is a typical example: https://www.ebay.com/itm/18-55TCW-B...957373?hash=item2603598bbd:g:KboAAOSwtJBbCEde

    The pieces on ebay are variously described as jade or jadeite, and do not typically come with a cert. It's unlikely we could purchase one of these pieces, send it to AGL for testing, and get it back within the return period. So I would be most grateful if you could give us any clues as to how to look at a lavender jade piece, and make an informed determination if it's grade A, B, or C. I know this won't be easy but any pointers would be appreciated.
     
    ChaiK likes this.
  14. Bluegemz
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    3,228
    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2017
    by Bluegemz » Oct 8, 2018
    That’s fabulous that you are looking for a lavender jade! Jade is a tough stone to understand, and I have found that there is a steep learning curve when getting into it. It has been said that jade takes many years to understand, which I fully agree with.

    It can be really hard to make an informed impression without testing, and by picture. With experience, one can have an idea of what to look for, but since each jade really is so unique and, given the variations within the species,( color, grain, texture, translucence etc.) it can be very hard. Especially now, since treatments have become so convincing. But, as a general rule, polymer impregnation, ( the worst treatment IMO because it greatly reduces the famed qualities of the stone, such as value chime, strength and ‘luster’) started in the 1980’s. Polymer treated jade is known as B grade. If both polymer and dyed , it’s known as B and C jade. Jade has been dyed for a long time. Generally, organic dyes were used which eventually faded, but new dyes are on the market which don’t fade as easily with time.

    Regarding polymer, sometimes this will show with either long or short wave UV as a glow, but not always. In addition, some spots of fluorescence can show in natural jade. If a jade glows uniformly, this may be is an indicator of either dye or polymer, or both.

    If you have a microscope, B jade will often have an ‘etched’ surface, very fine lines which dull the surface. Sometimes, this is hidden by a wax coating in newer pieces, but it still there if one looks carefully. Jadeite, unless very coarse in grain, should have a very shiny, hard surface, with only a few, tiny spots which may be less shiny, such as where a stone line meets the surface.

    B jade often feels lighter, and looks more clear, is not as cold, heats up to body temp faster, and has a more translucent and often ‘gelatinous’ look to it when compared with natural counterparts, especially for the price. Certainly, there are very expensive, A grade pieces which look like the B grade jades which try to imitate it, but here price is very telling. ( my first jade buying experience was a clear, icy B jade bangle. Back then, I was naive and believed that I could purchase an A grade, relatively flaw free bangle for $400 lol. It’s natural counterpart would have been in the many thousands.)

    With dyes, under a microscope, one can look for concentrations of dye lines, and there are many images through lab publications which show examples of dye concentrations in jadeite. But this can be difficult too because jadeite gets all color from minerals which have seeped in over millions of years and meshed between the crystal lattices. Sometimes there can be subtle concentrations in this process too.

    Re searching for jade, vintage and antique pieces protect you somewhat from some treatments, especially truly antique pieces, but not completely. Many vintage styles of the 70’s were duplicated later, and many sellers on eBay are taking a guess as to age, and then there is age old dye. Best would be an iron clad return policy, communicating your intent to have tested and return if not natural, ( A grade). You could negotiate testing into this. Another issue is that some labs cannot always determine the color origin of lavender jadeite. GIA told me that this happens about 10% of the time with lavender jadeite which they test.

    Reputable sellers, who value their reputation and will refund and test for you if requested, are a good way to go, such as allaboutjade, Yokdee, Mason Kay and others. Some antique sellers, such as Lang’s Antiques provide a GIA certificate already. I can list a few more sellers if you would like.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2018
  15. prs
    Shiny_Rock

    Messages:
    372
    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2017
    by prs » Oct 8, 2018
    @Bluegemz thank you so much for your detailed and informative reply.

    I think you are right that a positive cert result has to be negotiated into any jadeite purchase. I don't yet have a good handle on the price of A grade lavender jadeite, but I'm guessing most of the ebay sellers would have a cert already if they knew their piece was A grade. :))

    Yes, if you would be so kind, please list a few more sellers. I am familiar with Lang's Antiques but they seem to be out of stock at the moment. :(2
     
  16. Bluegemz
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    3,228
    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2017
    by Bluegemz » Oct 9, 2018

    Ok, an American seller who frequently sells vintage/antique jadeite is https://www.hawaiijewelrybuyers.com/product-category/jade-jewelry/. Prices seem a bit high, ( often Western sellers sell jadeite for much more than sellers closer to the source in Asia.) negotiation may be in order. You can also try sellers like Ultimate jadeite. Though I’ve never purchased through her, many others have. Let Nadir know what you are looking for and she maybe willing to source it for you. You can also look at :

    https://sg.carousell.com/search/products/?query=Lavender jadeite. This is a bunch of individual sellers, so negotiation and testing should be worked out, and always ask for a video and additional pictures. And always work out a refund agreement and a safe way to pay.

    Another seller whom I and others here have purchased from is this lady....I purchased a ring from her. Though the GIA report stated that color origin cannot be determined, there was no polymer impregnation... ( as I mentioned, the GIA tester told me that this happens with 10% of the lavender jadeite which they test.) personally, I am confident that she is selling A grade jade. She has a guarantee and return and refund policy, and I was able to pay with PayPal. Perhaps additional testing could be arranged prior to purchase should you purchase from her. I believe she is a seller who works with a jadefactory, and can source items for you. https://jasminejadeite.com/. As with any gem, buyer beware. And, it is important to see and feel jade in order to best decide, though this is not always possible. There are other sellers... and I can keep an eye out if you tell me what you are looking for.
     
    prs and ChaiK like this.
  17. ChaiK
    Brilliant_Rock

    Messages:
    566
    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2018
    by ChaiK » Oct 9, 2018
    Hello Bluegemz, this is my buddha ring. Arrived yesterday. I am so in love with it.

    prs, Jasmine is not bad. But you might want to think about her pricing before you buy. For example, I was after one item, it was sold out. And then the next similar item had a higher price. I don't understand the difference in pricing for jadeite, since there are so many types. In addition, I don't have the pieces before me to understand why prices should vary so steeply for very similar pieces.

    And I don't want this to be a negative for Jasmine. So I ask, very politely and tactfully, that you think about pricing when you communicate with her. She is helpful. And very patient. I did enjoy my shopping experience with her, on the whole.

    Jade Buddha Ring.jpg
     
    cflutist, prs and Bluegemz like this.
  18. ChaiK
    Brilliant_Rock

    Messages:
    566
    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2018
    by ChaiK » Oct 9, 2018
    And this is my green blue pale very translucent dragon. Also from Jasmine. I want to make it into a cuff bracelet. With sapphires. It has a green blue sheen to it

    jade Dragon.jpg
     
    prs likes this.
  19. mellowyellowgirl
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    2,215
    Joined:
    May 17, 2014
    by mellowyellowgirl » Oct 9, 2018
    @ChaiK how do you find the gold on the ring? Is it flimsy?

    I notice the price difference too, I just chalk it down to too much stock or minute differences in size/shade of the jade.

    I am a fan of hers! Have bought three things so far and am super happy with them! Cannot get cute earrings for a cheaper price than her stuff I reckon.
     
    ChaiK likes this.
  20. ChaiK
    Brilliant_Rock

    Messages:
    566
    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2018
    by ChaiK » Oct 9, 2018
    Yeah, the gold is flimsy. But at that price, I am ok. All for fun. Plus I didn't think the jade would be this green as shown in her video. It really is.

    Just her sudden cut throat pricing for same items can be a turn off. But I suppose that is business and like I said, I don't know her costs or her pricing formula or the quality of the jadeite. so even if I am put off, I just wait and buy what I like at the price I like. If it is too high, I let go (very difficult, but I have to).
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2018
    prs and voce like this.
  21. ChaiK
    Brilliant_Rock

    Messages:
    566
    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2018
    by ChaiK » Oct 9, 2018
    I bought the ring for USD388. Plus her weird paypal fee calculation, it came up to USD406
     
  22. mellowyellowgirl
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    2,215
    Joined:
    May 17, 2014
    by mellowyellowgirl » Oct 9, 2018
    If you're feeling confident I have bought 2 things by direct bank transfer and got a discount. No problems whatsoever.

    hehe just thought I'd share!

    I REALLY want to try one of her cheap jade CAB rings!
     
    ChaiK likes this.
  23. ChaiK
    Brilliant_Rock

    Messages:
    566
    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2018
    by ChaiK » Oct 9, 2018
    Oh, and I am now wearing little buddha with my huge chrysoprase and Tsavorite ring. I love this chrysoprase - it has a neon glow to it.

    Chrysoprase Ring.jpg
     
    pwsg07, Keeliamira, LisaRN and 4 others like this.
  24. mellowyellowgirl
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    2,215
    Joined:
    May 17, 2014
    by mellowyellowgirl » Oct 9, 2018
    OMG!!!!! That chrysoprase!!!! DIVINE!!!!!! THAT IS A MASTERPIECE!!!!!!

    I have an unset one!

    I ADORE the colour of chrysoprase!!!!!!!!!

    Actually I am a green maniac! :mrgreen2::lol-2:
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2018
    ChaiK likes this.
  25. ChaiK
    Brilliant_Rock

    Messages:
    566
    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2018
    by ChaiK » Oct 9, 2018
    Yes. If you can find a really good Chrysoprase, and the price is also very good. Some Chrsyoprase are so dead and non-translucent. This one, I got from David of Multicolour. He did the setting for me. But David, well, David. He cannot get the details right all the time, so you have to accept minor deviations from your original instructions. He also once over-charged me on one item. I did not question it. But thereafter, I was super firm on how he priced his setting so I made sure I did not get an arbitrary figure. I suspect it is because David has so many things to do, his mistakes are not intentional. So you have to be careful with his absent mindedness. I truly think it is down to that more than anything else.
     
  26. Bluegemz
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    3,228
    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2017
    by Bluegemz » Oct 9, 2018
    They look lovely! I love the dragon especially. I found her to be very nice, and sourced my ring for me. She was open to negotiation on prices too, which I appreciate.
     
    ChaiK likes this.
  27. ChaiK
    Brilliant_Rock

    Messages:
    566
    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2018
    by ChaiK » Oct 9, 2018
    This is my buddha with the moonstone gob stopper. It is set with rubies. I love this moonstone too. It is greenish. Again, David did this one for me. I did enjoy working with David on the whole. The rubies are meant to be heated only. I don't know. They are a deep vibrant red. I could not capture it.

    Moonstone ring.jpg
     
    AV_, pwsg07, Keeliamira and 3 others like this.
  28. ChaiK
    Brilliant_Rock

    Messages:
    566
    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2018
    by ChaiK » Oct 9, 2018
    I did not find that with her. Maybe I shall ask her. But as a business owner myself, I know my prices for my products are reasonable, so I quite not like discounts sometimes. So I can understand how Jasmine feels. I am not pushy about that.
     
  29. Bluegemz
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    3,228
    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2017
    by Bluegemz » Oct 9, 2018
    I completely understand. In my situation, I paid a few thousand for my ring, so I felt ok negotiating just a bit for what I was willing to pay for pieces which I saw. I gave her a price range, and she showed new pictures daily of new products not on her site, with increasing prices each time. So I spent more than my original budget for the quality presented, and she came down a bit. I think everyone was pleased with the deal. I was happy about what I felt was a descent price for a a stone which I really like. The setting is decent. Not super heavy, but not overly thin either. No closed back. Eventually, it’s going to be reset anyway, and I’ll use the setting for another cabochon, so I was not buying for the setting.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2018
    ChaiK likes this.
  30. ChaiK
    Brilliant_Rock

    Messages:
    566
    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2018
    by ChaiK » Oct 10, 2018
    I agree, Bluegemz. If I was spending into the few thousands I would bargain.

    It is so hard now to actually determine the price of jadeite. One bangle costs 10,000 usd, yet another similar looking one goes for 5000usd. And it is all online, so it is difficult to tell. The problem is I live in the UK, so jade here can also be priced outrageously in London. On top of that, I cannot even be confident of its grading.
     

Share This Page