So what do you guys think of WAP?

[monarch64]

"Bring a bucket and a mop"?! Girl needs to see doctor asap. Who wants to wear scuba gear to have sex?

Nothing unhealthy about female ejaculation.

 

[rainwood]

I didn’t get the feeling that Megan was talking about the “grin and bear it” kind of (damaging, women-hating) pain in the song, but rather the S&M by Rihanna kind of pain, IYKWIM. That’s pretty clear from context, I think. So that line doesn’t bother me more than anything else in the song or other rap songs.

About the song as a whole - I don’t like rap as a genre and pretty much never listen to it, so I was unaware of this song until it turned into a meme. I can’t say that the lyrics are worse than your typical rap song in terms of being more vulgar etc. Not really my thing, but I do appreciate how it’s women talking about their own bodies instead of yet another song about men talking about women’s bodies. I can see how people think it is empowering! And for once it’s a song about a woman (or two women) going “I’m so hot” without following it up with “women who don’t look like me are unattractive.” It makes me so happy to see a song that isn’t women hating on women (a la All About That Bass by Meghan Trainor).

I hope that's true. I'm just not sure that girls and younger women will necessarily catch that distinction. It's kind of like 'size matters.' I always want to add 'But if he doesn't know what he's doing, big ain't nothing but a problem.'

 

[Elizabeth35]

But who are we to tell other women what’s “positive,” “better,” and “freeing” for them? I’m not going to tell other women what to do with their bodies. WAP is topping the charts so clearly it resonates with a lot of women. When I say I love celebrating other women I don’t limit that to women who express themselves the same way I do or share my life experiences.

This thread reminds me of the phrase I often come back to when thinking about art/music/literature that doesn’t resonate with me: If it’s not for you, it’s not FOR you. Meaning that if a song/book/artwork/etc doesn’t speak to you, it’s often because it’s not made for you.

I think for women who are used to being objectified, violated, and shamed by those around them and society at large it IS positive, better, and freeing to say: I have agency over my body, I’m not embarrassed or ashamed.

To each their own.
If she has agency over her body—why is she using it to get tuiition, rings and cars? Why isn’t she buying her own things from her own money instead of using her body to get material things from men she sleeps with?

 

[Elizabeth35]

Editing to add--I guess that her her freedom to use men to get money or things. Is that considered empowering? Because to me that is not empowering but perhaps to some people it is?

 

[Zlata]

20 minutes. Well worth the watch, IMO.

 

[Matata]

Well worth the watch, IMO.

 

[AGBF]

It reminded me of all the things the most atavistic men always liked to see. For some reason it reminded me of men looking at Playboy (and Penthouse ad Hustler) back in the '1950's and 1960's despite the rap update. It just made me think of the days when sex was all about pleasing men, giving them images they would like. The women were all busty, big in the derrieres, clad to please men, and so on. It definitely did not evoke a pleasant time in my life.

 

[PintoBean]

So...
Being old AF, I decided to Google "sexually explicit songs from the 90s". The first one that came up was this:
Akinyele - Put it in your mouth.

Lemme tell you something. When this was playing, I'd be at a frat party, listening to a sped up version of this song (DJ mixing), and apparently I don't pay attention to lyrics because right now, I listened to this song, and I think it is like a manual on sex ed. Ahaahahahahhahaha
#oldAF

 

[Asscherhalo_lover]

So...
Being old AF, I decided to Google "sexually explicit songs from the 90s". The first one that came up was this:
Akinyele - Put it in your mouth.

Lemme tell you something. When this was playing, I'd be at a frat party, listening to a sped up version of this song (DJ mixing), and apparently I don't pay attention to lyrics because right now, I listened to this song, and I think it is like a manual on sex ed. Ahaahahahahhahaha
#oldAF

I remember this one!!!

 

[SandyinAnaheim]

20 minutes. Well worth the watch, IMO.

I agree, that video by Harriet was really good. I admit that in the 90s I listened to a lot of hardcore gangsta rap, enjoyed it then and enjoy it now. The more anti-white, anti-female it was, the more I liked it. Old Snoop, Ice Cube,. MJG, Dogg Pound, and others. I never felt "disempowered" by any of it.

But this song, by females, doesn't make me feel "empowered" in the least. Talking about WAP sounds like something that should be going on in private between consenting adults. I don't feel the need to advertise how much lubrication I can produce when excited, and don't even want to consider whom that might excite. I've NEVER been a fan of Lil' Kim, and MUCH less so of Cardi. I don't think trading on sexuality for income is a particularly smart move, I think it's the easy move. My grandma used to tell me that if a man only liked/loved me for the services I perform, that's not love; that's servitude. I find the song profane, demeaning and as close to base as I've seen. But it IS catchy. More power to those that enjoy it. I'm not one.

 

[monarch64]

@PintoBean hahaha. I remember a very popular Ludacris rap, the Thong Song, Junior Mafia, Lil Kim, so many. Sooooo so many. Let us not forget Khia’s My Neck, My Back.

 

[monarch64]

@SandyinAnaheim i like that you brought up servitude.

Generally, I hear WAP and other songs/raps like it and love them because I tend to be more dominant, ahem, in the bedroom and I often feel that men are serving ME, not the other way around. My college roommate used to half-jokingly say I should’ve been a man, and I said no honey, men should be taught that sex isn’t always about them. I mean ffs, the clitoris is the only human organ that serves no other purpose than pleasure.

 

[PintoBean]

Do you remember Divinyls - I touch myself?

Does this still push the envelope nowadays? I feel a little naughty listening to it lol.

 

[PintoBean]

Apparently I don't need to google. I just need to think about what's on my ipod to pull up explicit songs. Now that I'm back in the 80s, Lords of acid. Nuff said. Lyrics are not that deep. I wanna sit on your face repeats over and over.

 

[SandyinAnaheim]

@SandyinAnaheim i like that you brought up servitude.

Generally, I hear WAP and other songs/raps like it and love them because I tend to be more dominant, ahem, in the bedroom and I often feel that men are serving ME, not the other way around. My college roommate used to half-jokingly say I should’ve been a man, and I said no honey, men should be taught that sex isn’t always about them. I mean ffs, the clitoris is the only human organ that serves no other purpose than pleasure.

I would've been more like you Monnie had I ever found a man that had any interest in improving their "proficiency". Alas, I've been married twice and been in 6 total relationships and none have been worth their salt. I think one of the things men don't fully comprehend is that while a woman is into them and having an orgiastic time with them, most of that "delight" is in her own head and brought to the party by them. It really has nothing to do with the man, IMHO. At some point, the man has to up his game to keep things on par with what he's been provided, but that is rarely the case, selfish as they are in the bedroom. Men need to be taught A LOT of things....

 

[monarch64]

Apparently I don't need to google. I just need to think about what's on my ipod to pull up explicit songs. Now that I'm back in the 80s, Lords of acid. Nuff said. Lyrics are not that deep. I wanna sit on your face repeats over and over.

Girl idk about you but a frat party anthem in my day was Nin Inch Nails “Closer.” Ummmm

 

[monarch64]

@SandyinAnaheim That sucks. But hey, it’s never too late. I keep telling @PintoBean she needs to get a younger man. Preferably a well-muscled one with lots of energy and stamina and enthusiasm.

 

[HollyJane]

I don't think so. And, I like some rap.

Not all music is art, no matter if it's rap, country, pop or whatever.

 

[inne]

Do you remember Divinyls - I touch myself?

Does this still push the envelope nowadays? I feel a little naughty listening to it lol.

I loooooved this song and felt so scandalous listening to it on the radio when I was 11

 

[HollyJane]

The lint between my toe socks could be considered 'art' too, I guess, if this song and WAP are art.

 

[HollyJane]

The lint between my toe socks could be considered 'art' too, I guess, if this song and WAP are art.

 

[HollyJane]

I mean, it's got texture, different colors and such. Why not

 

[PintoBean]

Girl idk about you but a frat party anthem in my day was Nin Inch Nails “Closer.” Ummmm

NiN was HS for me. In your room. Staring into Trent's eyes. Dreamy man... ooo a matthew mcconnaughey trent Reznor sandwich... and some butch walker. Rivers Cuomo and both guys from yip deceiver...

Frat party music Reggae
Reggae, hip hop.
Think beanie man, biggie, lady saw...

 

[SandyinAnaheim]

@SandyinAnaheim That sucks. But hey, it’s never too late. I keep telling @PintoBean she needs to get a younger man. Preferably a well-muscled one with lots of energy and stamina and enthusiasm.

I've had that before, and all it brings is more excitement in my head.... more energy, stamina and enthusiasm doesn't make them any better, unless they're REALLY packing.

 

[PintoBean]

I've had that before, and all it brings is more excitement in my head.... more energy, stamina and enthusiasm doesn't make them any better, unless they're REALLY packing.

Wow ladies! Let me live vicariously through you!

 

[AllAboardTheBlingTrain]

I hope that's true. I'm just not sure that girls and younger women will necessarily catch that distinction. It's kind of like 'size matters.' I always want to add 'But if he doesn't know what he's doing, big ain't nothing but a problem.'

Not that the lyrics are particularly spectacular but they do talk about all the things they enjoy in the bedroom, so I think from context it is clear that it’s consensual pain. The damaging message to women is usually “sex is painful and you will hate it but you need to do it as your duty to your husband” (ugh I feel unclean just typing that out) but the message here is just “I like it rough” and there’s a massive distinction that this song is about a woman talking about how she likes it (like the song S&M by Rihanna which didn’t raise any major eyebrows that I remember when it came out, though it was less explicit than this song ofc. But it also talks about enjoying pain, like the title suggests).

 

[OboeGal]

Editing to add--I guess that her her freedom to use men to get money or things. Is that considered empowering? Because to me that is not empowering but perhaps to some people it is?

Is it "using" men? You mentioned that it's prostitution and they should work to pay for their stuff, but how is prostitution not working? Person A is offering a transactional service to person B, who is paying them for it. How is that different than any other business transaction, as long as everyone is a consenting adult and knows the score? If someone's being lied to, or being victimized, or there purely out of desperation and is miserable, that's something else, but if everyone is content to be there and content to have their bodies participate, why is that anyone else's business? It would not be my personal choice, but neither would being a politician or a trader on Wall Street or a gastroenterologist. Frankly, in my opinion, there are a lot of other things that people do for money that no one bats an eye at, but I think do actual harm to others, whereas I see no "victims" here.

 

[AllAboardTheBlingTrain]

Is it "using" men? You mentioned that it's prostitution and they should work to pay for their stuff, but how is prostitution not working? Person A is offering a transactional service to person B, who is paying them for it. How is that different than any other business transaction, as long as everyone is a consenting adult and knows the score? If someone's being lied to, or being victimized, or there purely out of desperation and is miserable, that's something else, but if everyone is content to be there and content to have their bodies participate, why is that anyone else's business? It would not be my personal choice, but neither would being a politician or a trader on Wall Street or a gastroenterologist. Frankly, in my opinion, there are a lot of other things that people do for money that no one bats an eye at, but I think do actual harm to others, whereas I see no "victims" here.

This reminds me of a chapter in a very interesting book by Steven Levitt & Stephen Dubner (I cant remember if it was Freakonomics or Superfreakonomics) where they interview an escort named Allie who talks about how she chose her job and enjoys it. The entire book (both books actually) are a fantastic read.

 

[OboeGal]

So, rap idoesn't really do anything for me personally. I certainly respect that it is an art form that clearly legitimately speaks to many, but other than the occasional somewhat catchy bass groove, it just doesn't do anything for me. I don't really see it as music, but more as a form of rhythmic prose - perhaps a hybrid between poetry and very simplified pop music - and I've never really been drawn to poetry. (Occasionally I happen to come across poetry that does speak to me, but it's kind of rare and not something I seek out.) To me, it is infinitely more about what is being communicated verbally (although too often it's too difficult to understand what's said), and secondarily about the visual presentation, whether it's the accompanying video or stage theatrics for live shows. The musical aspect seems an afterthought, although as a professional instrumentalist for 43 years now, I respect that they're not trying to put up a pretense of it being really about music, unlike those of the pop, rock, R&B, and country industries with the mind-numbingly boring and formulaic crap they put out.

I have no problem with the particular piece in question. A couple gorgeous, voluptuous gals singing unapologetically about what they want and like sexually. OK. I guess I don't really even see why it's a big deal. It's explicit, but as others pointed out, there has been explicit prose and explicit lyrics to songs for ages. (Folks have mentioned Led Zeppelin/Robert Plant; who can forget The Lemon Song?) I guess I'm not up on the genre enough to know if this represents a real departure from how women have been presented, or have been free to present themselves, in the past or not. If it is a step forward, then great. I certainly don't know enough about what's in their minds to know if they are dressed the way they are by their own choice, or because someone else pressured them to, and if it's because they like and enjoy how they feel and look in these clothes, or if they feel a sense of pressure to dress that way to please men. That context is critical; if the motivations are external, then I'm a bit saddened by that, but if their motivations are internally based around pleasing themselves, then great. No one but them know the answer to that. I guess, overall, I'm just not getting why it's garnering so much attention, whether positive or negative, frankly.

As I ponder it, I'm guessing that some of the critical voices are more horrified than they would be if this were a couple heterosexual men, but of course there's nothing new there. I don't feel influenced by those voices when it comes to sexuality; although sexism has affected my self-image negatively in multiple other ways, including romantically, when it comes to sexuality as considered separately from romance, I've never had a problem owning mine. Since that's the case, I guess I don't feel empowered by the piece because I already felt empowered there. If there are others who are not heterosexual men who feel newly empowered in terms of their sexuality from it, then that sounds good to me.

 

[Tekate]

Not every woman has the ability to major in chemistry and become say a chemist, or a acquire a comp sci degree and make 120,000K, teachers salaries are very low these days, rents high, the only class that hasn't had a boost is the middle class, they have had stagnant wages for 40 years - the 70s I believe.

Cardi B is using her brains and intelligence to market what makes her money, Women have been doing this for eons I would guess. She is empowered by what she has. She is owning her sexuality and she is controlling it.

Maybe her choices aren't for every woman but it worked for her.

She is buying things with her own money - he's giving her money for what he wants from her. It's her body, her skill.

I recognize that Cardi isn't to everyone's liking, but for some she may give them some power, nothing is simple I suppose.

To each their own.
If she has agency over her body—why is she using it to get tuiition, rings and cars? Why isn’t she buying her own things from her own money instead of using her body to get material things from men she sleeps with?