So much money! So little idea...
- Thread starter golfimbul
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You want the best but you rule out fluoro?
You will find most internet sellers sell the best value most liquid diamonds - the ones that are in demand. D IF is like a case of STD vs a house in Vegas. You would rather have the STD because you know you can get rid of it any time you want.
Golf, if you have money to burn, fly over to the states and visit Whiteflash or GoodOldGold (or both!) to see some AGS0, < 1ct stones in person. You could spend < 1/2 the cost for a stone that looks exactly the same as a D/IF & then take your girl on a trip of a lifetime to propose.
Just my $0.02.
Just my $0.02.
stone-cold11
Super_Ideal_Rock
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Maybe he has the $$ to burn but not the time to take a trip?
I believe he means that colour clarity combo is hard to find as vendors will stock the stones that they can sell (get rid off) easily. Not many people are willing to pay for that level of clarity if they can''t see the benefits. So, an STD is easy to pass onto the next person, a D IF stone isn''t. Vendors aren''t going to stock stones that won''t sell.
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D iF is not liquid if you want to sell.
Web dealers do not like to sit on stock that is slow to sell - you can read what many here feel.
I have a D iF client however who buys his wife these stones because of the symbolism and romance - so you are not crazy to do that - as long as you do it for a mind reason and not a quality reason.
I do not know anyone who could pick a nice F SI1 from a D IF in a pepsi test - dealers and valuers included.
Rarely are D IF cut to the standards many here like.
Fluoro is nice in DEF (in my opinion)
arjunajane
Ideal_Rock
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Hi again. I agree this one looks good, admittedly I only looked at your first 2 links, which weren't as good cut.
I also have to agree with garry above though. Have you asked your gf what she wants? I can almost garauntee most girls would prefer a larger stone than an IF one..
I also second the other suggestion - if you really do have your money burning a hole in your pocket, what about going to the US and making a trip of it?
Tiffany just rang me...
Carat: 0.88
Clarity: IF
Colour: E
Girdle: Thin-Medium
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
Dimensions: 6.17 x 6.21 x 3.79
Table - ?
Depth - 61.2
Crown angle - 15.3 (THIS CAN''T BE RIGHT???)
Pavilion angle - 40.7
Set in platinum for US $15,750...
Seems good value? What on earth is going on with that crown angle though???
Carat: 0.88
Clarity: IF
Colour: E
Girdle: Thin-Medium
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
Dimensions: 6.17 x 6.21 x 3.79
Table - ?
Depth - 61.2
Crown angle - 15.3 (THIS CAN''T BE RIGHT???)
Pavilion angle - 40.7
Set in platinum for US $15,750...
Seems good value? What on earth is going on with that crown angle though???
stone-cold11
Super_Ideal_Rock
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And get the table percentage too.
arjunajane
Ideal_Rock
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When you say "set in plat" do you mean the Tiff classic solitaire?
Considering you had a D colour with great specs above, I would think this is a worse deal on face value - you''d be outlaying ~2.5k for the setting, and not getting the D you said you wanted..
Sorry, I''m just kinda baffled by what seems like you are trying to spend More money..??
Ellen
Super_Ideal_Rock
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I doubt you''ll get many on here saying it''s worth buying, because we know how overpriced Tiff''s is. But if the numbers are good, and you don''t mind paying extra, then....Doing a price search shows you could get a comperable stone online for about 8 grand, give or take a few hundred. Just to give you an idea. The question is really, do you think it''s worth it? (assuming the numbers are good)
Just for grins I ran the numbers of the stone through the HCA, and put different tables in. At 55, it was on the AGS border, 56 in AGS, 57 back on the border.
OK, I guess the question I''m asking now is the value of the stone...
Let''s presume the Tiffany is AGS0 (or HCA equivalent)...
What is the difference in value between these loose stones?
1) 0.88, E, IF, AGS0 - Excellent in all other parameters (Tiffany certification)
2) 0.85, D, IF, AGS0 - Excellent in all other parameters (GIA certification)
???
Because having done the math, they''re going to cost the same in a set ring (Hardy Brothers have quote me ~$3000, call me a sucker!). I''m curious what the value of the Tiffany would be as a loose stone though... Looking on the diamond exchange, it looks like a 0.9 that is similar (just scrapes AGS0 on HCA) is ~$13,000 AU... http://www.diamondexchange.com.au/catalog/diamond_info.php?&catnum=1053691
The D stone is $15,850 AU...
Is that a fair comparison? If I use that information, it means the Tiffany setting and all that goes with it is costing me $6,000 and I''m not getting a D diamond...
Is an ~20% price difference between otherwise comparable D and E diamonds a reality?
Let''s presume the Tiffany is AGS0 (or HCA equivalent)...
What is the difference in value between these loose stones?
1) 0.88, E, IF, AGS0 - Excellent in all other parameters (Tiffany certification)
2) 0.85, D, IF, AGS0 - Excellent in all other parameters (GIA certification)
???
Because having done the math, they''re going to cost the same in a set ring (Hardy Brothers have quote me ~$3000, call me a sucker!). I''m curious what the value of the Tiffany would be as a loose stone though... Looking on the diamond exchange, it looks like a 0.9 that is similar (just scrapes AGS0 on HCA) is ~$13,000 AU... http://www.diamondexchange.com.au/catalog/diamond_info.php?&catnum=1053691
The D stone is $15,850 AU...
Is that a fair comparison? If I use that information, it means the Tiffany setting and all that goes with it is costing me $6,000 and I''m not getting a D diamond...
Is an ~20% price difference between otherwise comparable D and E diamonds a reality?
Honestly, I am not trying to be be offensive, but you keep asking about the value of these stones. Several of us have told you they are overpriced and you are spending way more money than you need to, so I think you are not going to get the answers you are hoping for.
There is no value for a loose stone from Tiffs, as they don't sell stones or settings on their own. You are spending a crazy amount of money on this ring anyway, so I think you should just want into Hardy Brothers or Tiffs and kiss your $$$ goodbye. You are not getting a good deal anywhere on any of these stones. Don't bother finding a stone and having it set somewhere else, it's just too much messing around and you are not getting the benfits of saving money etc.
As far as Tiffs vs Hardy brothers - I would personally go with Tiffs - it has more 'bragging power' than Hardy brothers. And I hope that you can swap it if you want just in case your gf has an aneurism when she realises how much money you have spent.
Sorry to be blunt, but that's how it is. We are giving you advice, and you are well within your rights and very welcome to ignore it, but I say just go to Tiffs now. It's getting crazy now.
I''m not sure what you mean by ''overpriced''...
How much should a 0.85, D, IF, Excellent cut (HCA equivalent AGS0) stone cost?
Is it less than I''ll be paying for the loose stone?
Otherwise, it''s not overpriced. Expensive maybe, but that is due to it''s inherent value.
How much should a 0.85, D, IF, Excellent cut (HCA equivalent AGS0) stone cost?
Is it less than I''ll be paying for the loose stone?
Otherwise, it''s not overpriced. Expensive maybe, but that is due to it''s inherent value.
LGK
Ideal_Rock
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Unless you''re getting a seriously detailed, diamond encrusted setting, $3000 is a crazy amount for a setting... I kinda get the sense you''re talking about a solitaire? If so, that''s about double what, say, a Leon Mege custom designed platinum solitaire runs. Just FYI...
Regular Guy
Ideal_Rock
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Golf,
I''ve scanned briefly over this...looks like you''re still shopping.
Just want to review/remind you...since you may be off your original demands...that this one from GOG gets you close to home...only going to VVS instead of IF...and John is probably the only vendor who will lay claim to treating your GIA diamond with analysis to giving you a virtual AGS0.
I''ve scanned briefly over this...looks like you''re still shopping.
Just want to review/remind you...since you may be off your original demands...that this one from GOG gets you close to home...only going to VVS instead of IF...and John is probably the only vendor who will lay claim to treating your GIA diamond with analysis to giving you a virtual AGS0.
arjunajane
Ideal_Rock
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? What is its "inherent value"?
Your question of how much it should cost has been answered on this page, where Ellen advised you can get simliar for ~8k.
Many many people have also advised you that is a ridiculous price for a plain solitaire.!
Yes, you are grossly overpaying for both stone and setting. I can respect and understand the guys that come on here and want to buy from Tiff's or Cartier as that is what their girl has always wanted.
But it seems to me you are just trying to spend as much as possible from the most expensive places, whether you are getting better quality or no.
Plus, you have never once mentioned what your girl may actually want..?? As I said at the start of your thread, why don't you find out what she wants - I'm pretty sure she would happy for you not to waste your money and spend it instead on the wedding, honeymoon, home etc etc.
Have you considered this??
Clearly, you seem to have money to burn - there is nothing wrong with that. There are many guys and women who come on here with budgets of 20k or more - but they can always see the sense in getting value for their money.
As Honey said, we are just strangers offering advice that by all rights you can ignore, but personally I will not be posting on your thread again. I find it frustrating, and frankly am starting to question your motivations.
peace out.
Tiffs and Hardy Brothers are overpriced, end of story. You are not paying for inherent value, you are paying for the little blue box or the fact that the queen shops there.
If you are talking simply a D IF stone, then you are paying for the rarity of the stone, but not value either. Diamonds are not investments, once you buy them, you can''t turn around and sell them again for a profit, or even the same amount as what you paid for.
I can only see a few options for you now:
- but the loose stone from an online vendor and have it set by them (you will save some dollars here over the next option)
- purchase from Tiffs or Hardy brothers as a complete ring - I really can''t see the benefit in having a loose stone set by them, you are just paying lots of money to have them set it, it''s not like it''s a ''real Hardy Brother''s ring'' and you can get the same quality setting for less money
I can''t give you the exact value of that stone, but I am telling you, it will be cheaper from an online vendor vs Tiffs or Hardy''s
arjunajane
Ideal_Rock
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I just thought of something else, and thought you should know - to my knowledge, there is not an Insurance Company in Australia that will cover you while you have a loose stone set.
And I''ve yet to hear of a jeweller that will accept liability for setting your stone if you didn''t buy it from them - you should really look into these issues if you choose to pursue the Hardy Bros idea.
And I''ve yet to hear of a jeweller that will accept liability for setting your stone if you didn''t buy it from them - you should really look into these issues if you choose to pursue the Hardy Bros idea.
Thanks for the tip... I''m sorry if I''ve frustrated you.
I guess I like the symbolism of a ''perfect'' diamond for the big question, which obviously isn''t the best bang for buck. Even for this elusive stone, I''d ideally still like to get the cheapest possible price though.
The Tiffany question only came up because their 0.88, E, IF stone seemed like it wasn''t as bad a price as I thought they''d have.
Obviously I''m a bit confused (I''ve had a lot of conflicting advice from friends etc in real life). I think if I stay true to my ''perfect'' stone though, I won''t have horrible regrets (maybe a lighter back pocket though...).
I guess I just want you forum regulars to help me get that perfect stone. I would prefer to purchase in australia (I could then view the stone in the brisbane store), and the prices seem to be comparable anyway. The setting is a fairly irrelevant issue I guess, I just wanted to take my girl and her stone into a nice brick and mortar store to choose her ring...
softly softly
Brilliant_Rock
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Umm I don''t understand why this thread is inspiring any kind of frustration, let alone questioning of motives. The OP clearly stated earlier:
The beauty of my scenario is that I am size constrained. My girl has actually said ''That looks ridiculous'' about mere 1 carat diamonds! I would not dare go over that size, even if I had billions of dollars. Which means that I can take the quality to the top level without blowing the budget... As far as I''m concerned, if I can, I should!
If he has a certain amount of money he is willing to spend and his girlfriend''s preference for a smaller stone means he can go for a stone he feels is special, or for a ring from a high end jeweller then what exactly is the problem? I certainly don''t get the impression he is not taking into consideration what his girlfriend wants, but rather that he wants to get her the very best stone possible that makes them both happy. If that means a D IF stone, or a ring from tiffany''s then what is wrong with that?
The beauty of my scenario is that I am size constrained. My girl has actually said ''That looks ridiculous'' about mere 1 carat diamonds! I would not dare go over that size, even if I had billions of dollars. Which means that I can take the quality to the top level without blowing the budget... As far as I''m concerned, if I can, I should!
If he has a certain amount of money he is willing to spend and his girlfriend''s preference for a smaller stone means he can go for a stone he feels is special, or for a ring from a high end jeweller then what exactly is the problem? I certainly don''t get the impression he is not taking into consideration what his girlfriend wants, but rather that he wants to get her the very best stone possible that makes them both happy. If that means a D IF stone, or a ring from tiffany''s then what is wrong with that?
This is likely still the number one contender (HCA 1.3 - Ex, ex, ex, vg), however, it is now listed as "Sold" on the diamond exchange website... In any case, they''ve posted up some new stones... The following two have me interested:
(0.93, D, IF, Excellent, MEDIUM FLURO, HCA - 1 - Ex, ex, ex, vg)
US $12,970.98
Carat 0.93
Colour D
Clarity IF
Total Depth 61.9
Pavilion Depth 43.00
Table 56.00
Dimensions 6.26*6.22*3.86
Crown Angle 34.50
Pavilion Angle 0.00
Girdle 2.33
Fluorescence M
Lustre VG
Polish EX
Symmetry EX
(0.86, D, IF, Excellent, NO FLUORO, HCA - 2 - Vg, ex, vg, vg)
US $11,250.41
Carat 0.86
Colour D
Clarity IF
Total Depth 62.4
Pavilion Depth 43.00
Table 56.00
Dimensions 6.09*6.05*3.79
Crown Angle 35.50
Pavilion Angle 0.00
Girdle 2.15
Fluorescence N
Lustre VG
Polish EX
Symmetry EX
I guess the questions are:
1) How undesirable is medium fluoro in a D diamond? I understand that it can be helpful in a lower colour group, but is likely to be a) unnoticable or b) detrimental in a D?
2) Is the cut of the 0.93 much better than the 0.86? I thought the HCA was a bit like an IQ test, past a certain score, it just means you''re a genius, but doesn''t differentiate one genius from another? As in, <2 means it''s a great stone and inseperable based on the score alone... They both seem to fall in the AGS0 category (or very close)...
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Without actually seeing this medium flouro D/IF, there is little way to know the effect on its appearance. My guess is that it would be undetectable in most lighting conditions, and would have a very slight blue glow when exposed to a lot of UV. This would make it a true blue-white diamond. Could be breathtaking. But I haven''t had a chance to see a diamond of this type before, and so this is only educated conjecture.
I think I''ll ask that both diamonds be shipped to my local store and I''ll view them both side by side (0.85 and 0.93 stone). If this isn''t possible, I think I''m actually leaning toward the 0.93 and would request it be displayed beside a ''master'' stone...
There are a few reasons I''m drawn to the 0.93:
1) It''s bigger but still within my girls limits
2) It seems to be an awesome cut (better than any of the others?)
3) Mr Holloway got me thinking about fluoro with his comment about DEF being nicer with in his opinion (obviously you ignore expert advice at your peril). I''m romantically drawn to a "Blue-white" diamond. I think I''ve read too many wilbur smith books to be honest, but it sounds wonderful!
4) If I can get a "Blue-White", perfect cut, D, IF diamond just under my size limit for this price, I think I''d be mad not to!
For those who are frustrated that I''m not making progress, I assure you I am! I''ve learnt the following JUST from this thread:
- HCA and it''s application (including a little bit about TIC, FIC and BIC)
- GIA and AGS classifications and how they compare
- Meaning of the different clarities (As far as VVS2 should be invisible to the naked eye)
- Flawless is stupid for a set stone as it automatically becomes IF by the setting process
- Fluoro might be a good thing
- Cut is the most important C...
Certainly I will be making an informed decision at the end of this, and I thank you for the education. Until then, I implore your ongoing assistance!!!
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You know what? For the amount you''re spending, I''d personally rather have the ring from Tiffany''s. As long as the stone falls in the AGS0 parameters, why not get the beautiful Tiffany setting? Tiffany is known worldwide, but I have never even heard of Hardy. I''d go for D or E VVS anytime. No reason to pay for IF, in my opinion.
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