shape
carat
color
clarity

So confused!

Discussion in 'RockyTalky' started by headlight, Mar 9, 2019.

  1. headlight
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by headlight » Mar 9, 2019
    Hello, PSers!
    Enlighten me, friends... this whole diamond thing is so baffling to me!
    My new stone is very deep... 63%.
    It is also a GIA 3x (you know where this conversation is going!!!).
    I understand that there is much agreement that the GIA 3x is just not yielding great stones.
    That, in and of itself, is a bit disappointing, as in how what is supposed to be the industry “standard” with its strict and consistent color and clarity grading could be falling so short with the cut category.
    I read on PS that GIA seems to have a trend going with “awarding” the 3x to a lot of 63% depth stones. I’ve come across a few myself just randomly perusing some of my favorite sites (also with 55% tables as mine has).
    So here’s the interesting part (above and beyond all the above!): My diamond scores a 1.7 on the HCA!
    After the DOG that my former EGL Israel stone was that had a horrific HCA, you can imagine how thrilled I was to get a 1.7 HCA, all excellent for light return, fire, and scintillation (only got a “good” for spread, obviously due to the depth... but spread was not my concern... I already had a huge diamond before 3.29 ct and this diamond was not about size... and it is still a 2 carat so not too shabby for size).
    This is now my diamond and so it is what it is... I am going to love it and live with it. I was a bit restricted from the get go because I had to fund my new stone by using my previous toward the purchase price, so there was no way I could go with some of the PS highly referred online vendors, as I had to go with my jeweler for whom I’ve been a client for over a decade who is a GIA GG and also an AGS jeweler that would work with me on a trade. (Actually, he suggested I try a recut of my old stone which I did but it still wasn’t what I wanted... the color was too warm for me at this point in my life and I really felt uncomfortable with the over 3 carat diamond).
    I could’ve got another 3x with a “crisper” cut that was a G color but because I previously had an I color and had become very color sensitive and was very motivated toward colorless this time, color was a high priority and my new stone is an E which I feel is very special. Sadly, I would’ve thought a GIA 3x would assure me some level of reliable standard.
    So I’m digressing as I see it’s been made abundantly clear that GIA cut grading has been a disappointment and apparently continues to do so. My main point in reaching out to all of you who have a good grasp on this is how could my 63% depth yield a 1.7 HCA?
    Thanks so much for your time, really appreciate your feedback.
     
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  2. Karl_K
    Ideal_Rock
    Trade

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    by Karl_K » Mar 9, 2019
    If you want an answer to your question you will need to post the numbers and girdle thickness from the report or the report number.
     
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  3. lovedogs
    Ideal_Rock

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    by lovedogs » Mar 9, 2019
    As Karl says, we need more info to understand the HCA score. But that said, 63% depth doesnt mean a stone is horrible or that it will get a poor HCA score. My understanding is that HCA is the most helpful way to make sure angles "play nicely" together in a stone, and help understand likely performance (although obviously no one tool is perfect). So I think if your stone scored below 2, and is gia XXX, and you are happy then you did really well!

    Edit. Also your stone has a nice small table, so that helps too!
     
  4. headlight
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by headlight » Mar 9, 2019
    Hi! Here’s the specs:

    2.01 carat
    8.01-8.07x5.06mm
    E, SI2
    Ex,Ex,Ex
    Faint
    Table 55
    Depth 63
    Crown angle 35
    Crown height 16
    Pavilion angle 40.8
    Pavilion depth 43
    Star 50
    Lower half 80
    Girdle med to slightly thick, faceted, 4%
    Culet none

    Thank you very much!
     
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  5. kmoro
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by kmoro » Mar 9, 2019
    Normally we don’t like to see the depth go below 62.4-62.6, but 63 is hardly outrageous :wink2:
     
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  6. headlight
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by headlight » Mar 10, 2019
    Thank you for the input.
    The “damage has already been done” so to speak... I just thought it’s interesting the HCA was good and wondering how that could be.
    I suppose that’s where the whole GIA thing of “many different combinations” can work but it just doesn’t seem like a solid way to do things and clearly gives the buyer a false sense of security (and paying a premium for something you may not really have).
     
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  7. lovedogs
    Ideal_Rock

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    by lovedogs » Mar 10, 2019
    The specs look pretty darn close to our recommendations (except depth which we usually recommend to keep at or under 62.4. But 63 isn't outlandish or horrible, so I'm not shocked that it still scored well on the HCA.
     
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  8. lovedogs
    Ideal_Rock

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    by lovedogs » Mar 10, 2019
    I could not possibly agree more! It's really frustrating that GIA XXX doesn't mean what people think it does. Agree that it gives a false sense of security. Very frustrating, but seems like you got a good one!
     
  9. Karl_K
    Ideal_Rock
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    by Karl_K » Mar 10, 2019
    nice high crown .5% higher than many of the stones talked about here.
    Nada wrong with a high crown, when a stone is a bit deep the best place for it is in the crown.
    Maybe an extra .5% in the girdle but its not outrageous.
    So if all that was different you would have a stone .08mm larger......
    In my book that is nothing to get exited about when you have the higher crown to show for it.
     
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  10. headlight
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by headlight » Mar 10, 2019
    Thanks! Hopefully I did okay. The E color has been a big thrill for me. And I love the small table. I also love not having a huge rock which is something I can’t believe I would’ve ever said! While SI2, it’s very clean (I know they always say that lol!) but it’s mainly due to a feather that is not in the middle. And any little specs are off to the side and white... my old diamond was a big mess of black blotches everywhere that looked like it was topped off by a sprinkling of black pepper!!!
    I do want to mention that my current jeweler is NOT the same person that sold me the horrible diamond 16 years ago!
     
    


    


  11. Laila619
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by Laila619 » Mar 10, 2019
    Except for being a little deep, your diamond has great specs. The angles work well together. 35 crown paired with 40.8 pav is perfect, one of my fave combos.
     
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  12. headlight
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by headlight » Mar 10, 2019
    Thanks...yes, I know it just squeaks in at the 8mm mark so I recognize that some weight is not visual. With regard to appearance, it didn’t matter as I had the big rock and this diamond wasn’t about that. Did I pay for something you can’t see... I suppose it could be said yes, however I feel the big cost of that diamond is about the color. My jeweler showed me the difference in what I would be seeing visually if the spread was better and it was so minimal but the “icy white” did have a big impact so I guess we all have to make choices if that “B” word is involved (budget - I hate that word!)!
     
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  13. Karl_K
    Ideal_Rock
    Trade

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    by Karl_K » Mar 10, 2019
    When 63% depth begins to be an issue is when its all in the pavilion or the girdle.
    If its in the pavilion the stone is not well going to be as nice as it should, if its all in the girdle its not doing anything for you.
     
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  14. headlight
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by headlight » Mar 10, 2019
    Thanks so much! Makes me feel a lot better (and explains why the HCA scored so well for performance).
    But, as I said, good or bad, it’s mine now lol! So I can love it and be grateful that if nothing else I’m fortunate enough to have a 2 carat E color diamond or I can be miserable. Even though this GIA cut thing doesn’t seem “solid”, I am happy to have a stone that was at least worthy of a GIA submission since my last diamond was not!
     
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  15. whitewave
    Ideal_Rock

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    by whitewave » Mar 10, 2019
    If it’s the one in your avatar, I think it’s gorgeous.
     
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  16. Karl_K
    Ideal_Rock
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    by Karl_K » Mar 10, 2019
    Can we get some pictures of you diamond? I am asking for friend who can never get enough diamond pictures. *grin*
     
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  17. headlight
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by headlight » Mar 10, 2019
    Thank you - yes, that’s it in the avatar. Not a H & A unfortunately. My husband says the diamond I want would be $100k lol!!! He’s so over diamonds and the GIA, etc., etc!
     
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  18. lovedogs
    Ideal_Rock

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    by lovedogs » Mar 10, 2019
    it's gorgeous!
     
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  19. headlight
    Brilliant_Rock

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  20. Karl_K
    Ideal_Rock
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    by Karl_K » Mar 10, 2019
    sweeeeet!! thanks!!
     
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  21. headlight
    Brilliant_Rock

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  22. flyingpig
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by flyingpig » Mar 10, 2019
    So..... You are bragging about being lucky enough to find a stunning looking 2.0c 8mm+ EYE CLEAN SI2? And it's an E!
    63% sounds bad. A well cut 2.00c is about 8.10mm. So, your stone is 0.06mm smaller, which I think is negligible.
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2019
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  23. headlight
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by headlight » Mar 10, 2019
    Definitely not bragging, my apologies if it came across as such... was meant to be communicated that I’m appreciative, that I don’t take it for granted to have something as special as a diamond.
    You are correct... it jusr made the cut for an 8mm mounting!
     
  24. flyingpig
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by flyingpig » Mar 10, 2019
    I was just kidding. :twisted2:. Beautiful stone! Congratulation!
    2.0c+ high color and low clarity (but eye-clean) is kinda my dream diamond.
     
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  25. headlight
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by headlight » Mar 10, 2019
    Thank you!
     
  26. yssie
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by yssie » Mar 10, 2019
    Most spec sheets and tools favour a 34-35 crown for RBs. When I was last looking for a personal stone I demanded at least 36 - it was a mind-clean thing for me.

    Sometimes your “perfect proportions” don’t quite match what the spec sheets and tools suggest. That’s okay. Sometimes your selection is driven by factors other than the 4Cs - that’s okay too. Sounds like you’ve found a pretty and mind-clean stone ::)
     
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  27. seaurchin
    Brilliant_Rock

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  28. kmoro
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by kmoro » Mar 10, 2019
    Are you sure it’s not an H&A?

    It’s beautiful! :love:
     
  29. Sparkles88
    Shiny_Rock

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    by Sparkles88 » Mar 10, 2019
    Gorgeous diamond and ring! I also have a E Si2 :love:
     
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  30. MissGotRocks
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by MissGotRocks » Mar 10, 2019
    Oh, I think your new diamond is just beautiful! For those of us who were buying diamonds pre-internet and online vendor days, we were already behind the eight ball so to speak. I envy folks just starting out today with diamond buying to have so much information and knowledge regarding what they are buying. Some super ideal cut vendors have great trade in policies that it is hard not to recommend them on that point alone. Many know the frustration of bad/no trade in policies or being stuck with a lesser cut stone with no cost effective solution.

    However, like so many others, you have found a way to capitalize on a great new stone that is probably cut far superior to what you had. The color and an eyeclean SI2 are just icing on the cake! GIA 3x does work on a broad basis but you've found a stone that falls within it that happens to be a great performer.

    From this point forward, don't focus on the numbers. It is just a waste of time and very frustrating and to be honest, not worth your angst. You have a gorgeous, wearable size diamond that you chose from two. Don't doubt your decision - just enjoy your new diamond because it is gorgeous! Nothing feels worse than second guessing and in this case, I don't think you have a thing to worry about. It's beautiful and I am so glad you were able to make this one yours!
     
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