Snooty shop assistants

[ame]

SapphireLover, what an annoying experience!

Ame, I am absolutely horrified for you.

I was really surprised and disappointed. DH and I have decided that IF we go back to LA, ever, it will be after we've lost 100lbs each. It seriously seems like if you're not anorexic you shouldn't bother there! They sure made us feel like that.

 

[Haven]

I naturally smile a lot and look people directly in the eye. I greet people when I walk into their shop, as well. I think this helps people warm up to me, because I have not had many negative experiences in shops, regardless of whether I'm looking particularly presentable or not.

I have noticed that, when shopping with friends or family members that are not very warm in their demeanor, they receive different treatment. People are less likely to offer help, or more likely to be short with them. Just an observation.

 

[dragonfly411]

I don't have a lot of rude experiences, beyond getting ignored a lot.

I had the opposite happen once though. I was working for a local book store, in my freshman year of college. At the time I didn't have a whole lot of debt so I could save a bit easier. I had bought my grandparents a set of very nice, tuned wind chimes. They're beautiful to listen to. The set I got them (for Christmas) was around $200.00. It was the main gift I got them that year, for their new log cabin. So this lady comes into the store and is looking at the chimes and comments that she'd love to have a set, but doesn't really know which one she'd like the most. I mentioned I had gotten a set as a gift and loved them. The conversation proceeded as follows:

Lady: "You bought a pair of these?"
me : "yep"
Lady : "YOU... you bought one of these"
me: "yeah, I think it was (pointed at the medium set) these..... (pointed at smaller set) or possibly those?"
Lady points at the smaller set: "Oh well THOSE are more in your price range, so maybe those."
I walked over and tested each pair and pointed at the middle pair " Nope, it was these here".

Her "Hmph."

You do not know me. You do not get to judge my finances based on where I work. I could be on full scholarship, and working for fun.

I don't believe in judging anyone until I get to know them a bit, or I see some kind of action on their behalf that lets me know a little about them.

 

[jaysonsmom]

I naturally smile a lot and look people directly in the eye. I greet people when I walk into their shop, as well. I think this helps people warm up to me, because I have not had many negative experiences in shops, regardless of whether I'm looking particularly presentable or not.

I have noticed that, when shopping with friends or family members that are not very warm in their demeanor, they receive different treatment. People are less likely to offer help, or more likely to be short with them. Just an observation.

+1
I'm the exact same way, and usually get really great and courteous people helping me.

 

[PositivelyPeanut]

I had bought my grandparents a set of very nice, tuned wind chimes. They're beautiful to listen to.

Sorry for the experience with the rude woman (some people can be such jerks), but wanted to say thank you for the great gift idea. I think my grandma would love a set of these.

 

[PositivelyPeanut]

I think it can depend on the geographical location and what's expected/accepted behavior, as well as the type of store in some cases. But, sometimes, I think people can just be jerks -- whether that's because they've had a bad day, bad life, or just a bad attitude. I think you can win some over with kindness, but sometimes it takes more than that... I'm not someone who cares much if I'm liked (especially by strangers), but cares more about being treated right/fairly/decently. I expect it and it usually happens. (That's not meant to sound haughty. I just think expectations can also determine, in part, the outcome.) I also provide it though. I've known people who treat salespeople and waiters/waitresses like servants or peasants, and then they're surprised that they receive poor treatment in return.

 

[luv2sparkle]

I have had a few experiences with snooty sales people. The stupid ones. The smart ones don't cater to just the people dressed to impress.

We have a very snooty mall here in southern California, called South Coast Plaza. I absolutely detest it. I have never seen more people with snotty attitudes than there. I went there a few months ago to purchase some La Mer. It is not sold everywhere and it as one of the closest places to me. I stood at the counter where the salesman fawned over some very lovely well dressed twenty somethings and gave them every sample imaginable. They left and purchased nothing. My husband and I waited patiently and were very well dressed. I purchased $750. dollars worth of product and had to ask for a sample (for travel) and then was given the wrong one. I had to go back and wait again to get the right one. Needless to say, I will not go back there again. I will order online or go to another store.

I wish that I had written a letter to the manager. But honestly, that is such a prevailing attitude there that I didn't even think the Nordstrom would care. I should say that I have been to other stores there with very nice and helpful sales people. The Tumi store and the Dooney and Bourke store have lovely people. It is really a vibe that the people who shop there want to have. No me. I will avoid it.

 

[TimMD]

Definitely don't want to thread jack (sorry) but here is a pic as requested that I stole off my wife's facebook wall.

I love it.

There should be more handbag pics on PS IMHO Then I could post pics of my new Lanvin and Fendi (both being delivered on Wednesday oh happy day! )

How do I get my husband to pick up a Chanel bag on his way home?

So the secret is be pregnant and emotional during a week your husband is working A LOT and have him fall asleep while you are crying and you will likely get a Chanel bag!! hahahaha The skinny on the story behind the bag is I work 4 weeks straight without a day off (and then 2 weeks off) and I was on one of these stretches, working maybe 80+ hours a week and just one of those BAD weeks and I come home at 8pm to my pregnant wife (about 14 weeks at the time), knowing I never see her because with her schedule and my work hours, we commonly miss each other and I missed "genetics screening counseling" with her because I got caught up at work and when I get home, she becomes emotional and lays in bed and cries and I lay down and rub her back, comforting her and somewhere in the midst of that, I fell asleep. I woke up the next morning and felt HORRIBLE. That day at work, I made it a point to leave early despite still being pretty busy and went to Neiman Marcus with intent on buying her a some fashion rings she liked at Louis Vuitton as a "I am sorry gift". Because we were post call, I wore scrubs to work that day but I hate going in public in scrubs so threw sweats that I had at work on top of my scrubs and went to Louis Vuitton and was treated EXTREMELY rude and in my frustration, I just walked away and as Idid, I saw the Chanel boutique across the hall and went in to look and the young lady in there was AWESOME. I think I spent about a hour being told more about Chanel purses than I ever wanted to know and in the end, decided you can never go wrong with a Chanel purse. The sales lady wrapped it real nice, I went home, cooked dinner and gave her the present as a "pregnancy present" and sorry for not being available. So that is how you get your husband to stop at the mall on his way home and bring you home a Chanel purse.


Jewelerman, to answer your question, NO I did not get an A5 I was going to go to Austin (nearest OTHER Audi dealer in San Antonio) but lost my love with the car over that interaction. This year when we decided my wife needed a SUV with the baby coming and knowing she wanted the Q5 or Q7, we went instead with Cadillac because I refused to buy her an Audi because of that experience.

 

[rosetta]

Aw Tim, I think I'd rather have my husband at home more often. He's much warmer in bed than Chanel. Good on you for getting her a lovely "I'm sorry" present though: way better than flowers in my opinion! But do try to be home a bit more often young man, your pregnant wife really needs your hugs right now. I know it's hard (I'm a doctor too) but I'm a BIG advocate of getting work-life balance right. I've seen too many doctors' marriages break up and I guard mine like it's the most precious and fragile thing on earth. I'm often seen swapping on-calls so a colleague can get home for her anniversary or his kid's birthday party.

Congratulations on your pregnancy btw!

 

[Jennifer W]

Tim, you really do sound like one of the good guys. Even if falling asleep right then wasn't the best idea...

 

[ame]

Damn. So I have to put out to get a nicer bag...BOO

 

[Black Jade]

My mother is everything that is supposed to be looked down upon in America. She is black and she is very dark-skinned. She is quite a bit overweight. She is always neat and tidy but does not bother to wear expensive clothes of any kind and she certainly does not have status symbols that she is carrying around, and although she is quite well off financially and lives in a beautiful home in a lovely area and has servants, of course salespeople cannot see any of that. She does not drive a special car. However, she gets the best treatment from sales people that I know of (also from medical personnel and other service people). I think the secret is that in her mind there is no question that she deserves it and that if she is nto getting it, the problem is definitely not with her. So she makes sure that she gets it.

She has a beautiful voice and speaks very precise and educated, slightly foreign English. She is always extremely polite. I have never heard a curse word come out of her mouth and neither does she ever yell at anybody. The first thing she will do if someone is misbehaving is to ask their name. their whole name. Then she keeps on using it to them. Something about people knowing their name, that they are not anonymous, always makes everyone behave quite a bit better. She also is honestly not angry or intimidated by people who are rude to her in the beginning. If they don't know enough to be polite to other human beings, she assumes that they are a) not from a good family b) not well brought up and c) ignorant (in the sense that they don't know any better). So she is sorry for them and feels a little condescending, in the nicest way, which shows. And it is so strange. Right away, the fact that she doesn't even think they are worth getting angry at deflates these people in the msot amazing way. They are usually behaving badly because they are insecure and the fact that she doesn't think much of them, makes them even more insecure and they get very respectful. I can't tell you the number of times that I've seen someone start out ignoring her that ends up eating out of her hand and bowing her out of the store, after showing her everything, when she hasn't even bought anything. She will buy something if she chooses to--but never just to show them that she has the money to buy it. The point is, though she is so sure that they are should feel privileged that she even came in their shop, that she ends up convincing them that this is the case, also. It's an interesting thing to watch this happen. It has really taught me that 99% of the time, people really take you at your own valuation and that things are supposed to be deficits don't really matter if you yourself do not think that they do.

 

[jewelerman]

Black Jade,
so i read your post and understand what you are saying...but the first statement you made about your mother being everything that is supposed to be looked down upon in America because she is dark skinned,overweight, and doesn't wear status symbols when shopping is very up setting to me! I was raised that America is a great place to live because we have the freedoms to be who we are and want to be.I would never judge your mother or anyone else(nor would most of the people i know)based upon their skin color,weight,or what they own.Sure there are people in America who judge based upon appearance,but that happens world wide and not just in America because people in general can be thoughtless and mean .We are not trained in America that this is supposed to be the norm.

 

[MissStepcut]

Black Jade,
so i read your post and understand what you are saying...but the first statement you made about your mother being everything that is supposed to be looked down upon in America because she is dark skinned,overweight, and doesn't wear status symbols when shopping is very up setting to me! I was raised that America is a great place to live because we have the freedoms to be who we are and want to be.I would never judge your mother or anyone else(nor would most of the people i know)based upon their skin color,weight,or what they own.Sure there are people in America who judge based upon appearance,but that happens world wide and not just in America because people in general can be thoughtless and mean .We are not trained in America that this is supposed to be the norm.

One thing I learned, living abroad, is how exceptional American sensitivity to culture and race is. People suck in general, but I think Americans at least try to embrace and respect everyone.

 

[HollyS]

Ditto to Haven's post. DH and I smile, act friendly, and we almost always get great service as a result. Treat store and restaurant employees with kindness, no matter the situation, and they will respond with kindness.

(Well, in my middle of the road existence, that is. I'm sure if I was going to LA, my focus would not be on shopping at the designer boutiques, so I might not ever experience a Pretty Woman moment anyway.)

I'm reminded of a thread a few years back about whether we should tip at Starbucks. I remember being amazed at the sheer number of posters who said things like "Why should I tip a barista for a mere cup of coffee?". Well, tipping shows good will toward people who 'serve' you, and they respond in kind. I'm known, by name, at every Starbucks I frequent; and I get discounts, upgrades, and freebies - - all the time.

Every restaurant in town that we've been too - - my husband and I are remembered. We are always kind, even if the food is sub par, even if the food is cold or late, even if we've been shuttled into a corner we didn't want. And we never stiff anyone on a tip. Kindness matters, and it is appreciated. Now, we go out, and our favorite drinks are on the table without our ordering them - - sometimes we're not charged for them. One restaurant server has a 'to go' cup of iced tea ready to hand to me as soon as she brings the check - - because I once asked for one.

If I were in a situation where kindness could not diffuse snootiness, I wouldn't be spending my money there. But I would not feel the need to make a huge stink, talk to a manager, write an email, beat a drum over the dissing I'd received. No store, no merchandise, anywhere, is worth a headache, a heartache, or a hassle.

Taking your business elsewhere is the best revenge. Even if they don't know what they missed - - you do. Let it be enough.

Black Jade, I like you, and I would adore your mom.

 

[ame]

Black Jade,
so i read your post and understand what you are saying...but the first statement you made about your mother being everything that is supposed to be looked down upon in America because she is dark skinned,overweight, and doesn't wear status symbols when shopping is very up setting to me! I was raised that America is a great place to live because we have the freedoms to be who we are and want to be.I would never judge your mother or anyone else(nor would most of the people i know)based upon their skin color,weight,or what they own.Sure there are people in America who judge based upon appearance,but that happens world wide and not just in America because people in general can be thoughtless and mean .We are not trained in America that this is supposed to be the norm.

One thing I learned, living abroad, is how exceptional American sensitivity to culture and race is. People suck in general, but I think Americans at least try to embrace and respect everyone.

Man I wish I agreed with that. I think the US has SUCH a ways to go with respecting race and culture as a whole, unfortunately, and I think it seriously has backslid immeasurably of late. It boggles my mind the amount of racism, sexism, all around bigotry I see and hear on a daily basis just here in middle america in apparently one of the top 10 most dangerous cities in the world. It really ticks me off. Everyone should be equal. No one better than another. And yet every day its slur after slur and people going out of their way to avoid someone of another race. I thought that was just HERE, but I saw it in more than one city in the last few months. It seriously bugs me. Recent example: I was behind a woman with her child to go into a doorway, probably about 15 feet back. Some guys in ties (all were white with one exception, an asian guy) were walking into the "mall" entrance across the street from my building at work the other day when I was going to get my junk for lunch in the food court, and the one in back literally pulled the door shut behind him on a black woman to not assist her in any way, nearly smashing her fingers and LAUGHED to his friends that the N word can get that herself "since she was a slave once". I wanted to break his face for saying and thinking such a thing. I did say something but not what I wanted to say, her small child nearby and all. She had her hands full with a young child and a bag in her hand, so I ran and got it for her. But seirously? Who cares if the person needing a door held is black, white, male, female, whatever! Hold the door for the person with their hands full you jerk! It was almost like he thought he looked cooler saying that. Could not even believe it.

I know I am harsh and generally pretty aggressive (not even passive mostly!), but I am an equal opportunity people hater, and race/creed/whatever plays no part in my opinion of someone. If you're a jerk, you're a jerk. If you're a nice person, you're a nice person. I am your average white European bred midwestern american who believes in hard work and earning what I have, and it pisses me off to no end to hear someone say that someone is lazy or entitled because they're white, or lazy and illegal because they are of latino descent, or lazy and a criminal because they're black, or high-strung and cheap because they are asian. It has nothing to do with race, it has everything to do with how you behave. It blows my MIND around here how shop-people act when anyone walks in their store, they automatically seem to assume a black man is there to rob them, or is paying for his purchases with money he made selling drugs. Can the guy not have a decent job, save his money, and want to buy a nice item for himself or his wife? Around here? No, because that's just impossible for someone around here to grasp! And anyone latino or with any sort of accent to imply spanish-speaking is suddenly an illegal immigrant. Or how about they are legally here? Working for their living just like you?

Unfrigginbelievable.


edited to fix a freudian misspell.

 

[Deia]

Black Jade,
so i read your post and understand what you are saying...but the first statement you made about your mother being everything that is supposed to be looked down upon in America because she is dark skinned,overweight, and doesn't wear status symbols when shopping is very up setting to me! I was raised that America is a great place to live because we have the freedoms to be who we are and want to be.I would never judge your mother or anyone else(nor would most of the people i know)based upon their skin color,weight,or what they own.Sure there are people in America who judge based upon appearance,but that happens world wide and not just in America because people in general can be thoughtless and mean .We are not trained in America that this is supposed to be the norm.

One thing I learned, living abroad, is how exceptional American sensitivity to culture and race is. People suck in general, but I think Americans at least try to embrace and respect everyone.

Man I wish I agreed with that. I think the US has SUCH a ways to go with respecting race and culture as a whole, unfortunately, and I think it seriously has backslid immeasurably of late. It boggles my mind the amount of racism, sexism, all around bigotry I see and hear on a daily basis just here in middle america in apparently one of the top 10 most dangerous cities in the world. It really ticks me off. Everyone should be equal. No one better than another. And yet every day its slur after slur and people going out of their way to avoid someone of another race. I thought that was just HERE, but I saw it in more than one city in the last few months. It seriously bugs me. Recent example: I was behind a woman with her child to go into a doorway, probably about 15 feet back. Some guys in ties (all were white with one exception, an asian guy) were walking into the "mall" entrance across the street from my building at work the other day when I was going to get my junk for lunch in the food court, and the one in back literally pulled the door shut behind him on a black woman to not assist her in any way, nearly smashing her fingers and LAUGHED to his friends that the N word can get that herself "since she was a slave once". I wanted to break his face for saying and thinking such a thing. I did say something but not what I wanted to say, her small child nearby and all. She had her hands full with a young child and a bag in her hand, so I ran and got it for her. But seirously? Who cares if the person needing a door held is black, white, male, female, whatever! Hold the door for the person with their hands full you jerk! It was almost like he thought he looked cooler saying that. Could not even believe it.

I know I am harsh and generally pretty aggressive (not even passive mostly!), but I am an equal opportunity people hater, and race/creed/whatever plays no part in my opinion of someone. If you're a jerk, you're a jerk. If you're a nice person, you're a nice person. I am your average white European bred midwestern american who believes in hard work and earning what I have, and it pisses me off to no end to hear someone say that someone is lazy or entitled because they're white, or lazy and illegal because they are of latino descent, or lazy and a criminal because they're black, or high-strung and cheap because they are asian. It has nothing to do with race, it has everything to do with how you behave. It blows my MIND around here how shop-people act when anyone walks in their store, they automatically seem to assume a black man is there to rob them, or is paying for his purchases with money he made selling drugs. Can the guy not have a decent job, save his money, and want to buy a nice item for himself or his wife? Around here? No, because that's just impossible for someone around here to grasp! And anyone latino or with any sort of accent to imply spanish-speaking is suddenly an illegal immigrant. Or how about they are legally here? Working for their living just like you?

Unfrigginbelievable.


edited to fix a freudian misspell.

MissStepcut - you're right, I noticed that too. It's quite refreshing. I have lived abroad most of my life but go back to the US regularly.

Ame, have you lived abroad? Relative to other countries to US isn't doing so badly, that doesn't mean there is no improvement needed. There is loads, but again, relatively speaking...

I don't know where you live but I would think that depending on where in the US a person lives they will experience different levels of... wait for it.... "looks at kenny" tolerance for diversity.

 

[ame]

I am Midwest/Biblebeltish in a mid-large city and have not lived abroad. I like to think the coasts are more diverse and open minded, and I hope that I am mostly right, though I have been places that SHOCKED me at the lack of "tolerance".

 

[HollyS]

ame, I don't know where you live, but I live in the TX, and we don't treat blacks or Hispanics that way. Are there exceptions? Examples of racism that turned ugly? Yes, but they are the extreme, not the norm. It is rarer than you would think.

Men in this state (not boys or hipsters, men) will ALWAYS hold open a door for anyone right behind them, step aside for women, say "ma'am" and "sir" to everyone regardless of race, and frankly, would be ashamed to be thought of as discourteous. I've never seen outright racism or ugliness displayed by 'white' people like you have witnessed. And we're part of the South.

But, come to think of it, I did see more racism in the Midwest. Maybe down here we have more people who are not white (be they black, Hispanic, or Asian), so we've learned to live together like decent folks should. People of different races are our neighbors, not strangers to be ignored, ridiculed, or wary of. (And, because we know how hard illegals work, we're more tolerant than maybe we should be about how they came to be here.)

Or maybe we're just not as stereotypically crass here in Texas as the rest of the world wants to believe. Now, Oklahoma, on the other hand . . .

 

[MissStepcut]

ame, I think you might be operating under the utopian fallacy. No matter how far the U.S. has to go, I think we have a lot to be proud of. I am especially proud of our minority elected officials, including two south asian governors, south asians being something like 1% of the total population in the U.S. I think that's pretty special.

 

[ame]

But, come to think of it, I did see more racism in the Midwest. Maybe down here we have more people who are not white (be they black, Hispanic, or Asian), so we've learned to live together like decent folks should. People of different races are our neighbors, not strangers to be ignored, ridiculed, or wary of. (And, because we know how hard illegals work, we're more tolerant than maybe we should be about how they came to be here.)

Or maybe we're just not as stereotypically crass here in Texas as the rest of the world wants to believe. Now, Oklahoma, on the other hand . . .

Funny you mention Texas! The worst I have ever seen such racism is in Dallas, the worst of all I have seen was when my family was shopping at the mall in Arlington--at the Parks mall in Barnes and Noble. Couple of "good ole boys". I live in Missouri, and it's RAMPANT here, but no less so than anywhere I've gone in the DFW or even Houston areas! There are a few areas of town here that are more progressive but for the most part I have found that too many in this city are too narrow minded.

My husband by outward appearance gets judged as a skinhead, and he's the furthest from that. People will say and do disturbing things in front of us and then nod at him as though he should bump fists for such a scene. He is actually more ragey about it than me. He grew up in a hippy household, and his parents were VERY progressive for their time. My parents are Catholic, and tried to raise us that way, with me that backfired because I don't think a religion should preach hate and exclusion, and it backfired so much that I am not religious at all and don't believe in any of that stuff, and while I know this is not always the case, I have found that those who claim to be the most religious or "christian" (at least around here) tend to be the most bigoted people I've ever met. As if that gives them a pass or something. "I'd never be that way, Im a good christian". And then they slam the door on someone's hand.

Mentioning Texas just gave me a vivid reminder of a little story my mother in law just told me about having gone to see Hair at a theater in DFW somewhere and about how half of the audience walked out before the first intermission, I guess they didn't know what the play was?? She was comparing it there to how she'd experienced it every other time she'd seen it since first seeing it in NY and LA in the late 60s/early 70s. How even 40 years later she couldn't believe how people behaved there
compared to in other parts of the country. She said she'd seen it here, and didn't remember anyone walking out. But she was probably far too into singing along to various songs. My poor Dh grew up listening to the masturbation song in her car because she would constantly play the soundtrack. Because every teenage boy riding in his mom's Volvo wants that experience.

ame, I think you might be operating under the utopian fallacy. No matter how far the U.S. has to go, I think we have a lot to be proud of. I am especially proud of our minority elected officials, including two south asian governors, south asians being something like 1% of the total population in the U.S. I think that's pretty special.

Perhaps I am. But from where I go in this country, it seems those are rare and few instances of such things. Don't get me wrong, I am THRILLED that we elected a black president, and that people of all walks of life get elected. The problem is that it
doesn't seem wide-spread enough. I dunno. Maybe I am a little too utopian. I have high hopes that are constantly dashed.

ETA: This conversation went way off track. Sorry for the hijack OP!

 

[ksinger]

ame, I don't know where you live, but I live in the TX, and we don't treat blacks or Hispanics that way. Are there exceptions? Examples of racism that turned ugly? Yes, but they are the extreme, not the norm. It is rarer than you would think.

Men in this state (not boys or hipsters, men) will ALWAYS hold open a door for anyone right behind them, step aside for women, say "ma'am" and "sir" to everyone regardless of race, and frankly, would be ashamed to be thought of as discourteous. I've never seen outright racism or ugliness displayed by 'white' people like you have witnessed. And we're part of the South.

But, come to think of it, I did see more racism in the Midwest. Maybe down here we have more people who are not white (be they black, Hispanic, or Asian), so we've learned to live together like decent folks should. People of different races are our neighbors, not strangers to be ignored, ridiculed, or wary of. (And, because we know how hard illegals work, we're more tolerant than maybe we should be about how they came to be here.)

Or maybe we're just not as stereotypically crass here in Texas as the rest of the world wants to believe. Now, Oklahoma, on the other hand . . .

No, not true! We're no more crass in Oklahoma than in Texas. We are in fact SO modest and retiring that we WAIT and let Texas lead the way back to the 19th century with its emphasis on a hyped-up partisan Nationalist view of history that says "students must “describe the causes and key organizations and individuals of the conservative resurgence of the 1980s and 1990s, including Phyllis Schafly, the Contract with America, the Heritage Foundation, the Moral Majority, and the National Rifle Association.”, and its desire (no doubt modeled after the similar and oh-so-successful attempt in Dover, PA) to insert "intelligent design" into the science curriculum. We then merely slip modestly in behind and do the same.

Polite to a fault.

We do however beat you guys out by leading in the area of making sure women are "encouraged" to be barefoot and pregnant by increasingly 19th century-ish anti-abortion laws, so I suppose it's a wash.

 

[Black Jade]

I don't know that I was saying that Americans are especially racist, but I do know that there are a fair amount of people who assume that overweight black women who are not well dressed don't have money to shop in fancy stores. I don't want to get into a long discussion because I was not meaning to offend anyone, but that's not the only assumption that people make. When my mother was teaching, it was often assumed that she was not the teacher but the teacher's aide, until she spoke up and many other things of that sort. I feel very proud of her for not developing an attitude about some of the things that go on and for contiinuing to take people as they are. she did have the advantage that she didn't grow up here but in a foreign country where things were different and where her father was in a high political position and she had advantages from that (though he was divorced from her mom and they were very poor).

I would consider it to be racist to refuse to hire someone for a job in spite of being qualified or to refuse to sell them a house or the jim crow things that used to go on when I was a little girl. I do not think it is racist to not be served quickly in a store. Many of you onthe forum were complaining that the same thing happens to you and I would assume that most are white. Actually, when I wrote about my mother, I was thinking about the person who wrote here who was put down by store personnel because of her weight, more than I was thinking about color. I thought that that post was very distressing and that the salesladies concerned were mean,a nd I started to think how that doesn't happen to my mother, who is what Americans would consider seriously overweight. She is about five foot eight but definitely weighs considerable more than three hundred pounds. She has not seen size 12 or 14 in years but is SO not worried about it. I wish I could actually be the same in my attitudes, I think I have improved with not worrying about my weight but I am far from perfect. While my mother thinks she is just fine (and that I look starved. When she comes to visit she is always covering me up with big clothes to hide the fact that she thinks I am embarrassingly thin, which by American standards, I am not, if there is even such a thing as embarrassingly thin here short of in a coffin).

My mom thinks she is just fine and is totally unmoved by people talking about her 'health' problem or such things, because she is big. and she actually has no heath problems. She has always been very athletic and at 80 years old, she still is, has no blood pressure, not cholesterol, no nothing. She enjoys her food and doesn't care what americans think, because when she goes 'home' people are very admiring--"Oh, Miss X, you get so fat over there, you look so good, we can see that you are a rich lady now in America."

 

[Black Jade]

Still thinking about the conversation my remarks evoked, without my meaning it to. I jsut wanted to add that I do think that Americans in general tend to assume that blacks have less money and less--I don't know what to call it--opportunity? advantages? Again, I don't know that I would call this racism; I don't think I would, by itself. Maybe it could be called stereotyping? But I am sure that most white Americans tend to assume that blacks are poorer, definitely in my generation they do--I don't know if this has changed for younger people.
This does not usually annoy me, because I don't think it is bad minded, or meant to offend, though I do get tired sometimes of explaining that I was never underprivileged and that not all people of color grew up disadvantaged in money ways or other ways. I think the context in which I do find it irritating is when it is applied to public figures for no reason, like, for instance, our president and his wife. I seem to always be hearing that they 'overcame' a lot and I guess in a sense they did, in that no blacks were presidents of the US before. But they both came from quite privileged backgrounds, from everything that I have read. Obama was raised by wealthy grandparents who gave him every educational and other advantage. He was hardly the typical child of a struggling single mother. Michelle is very solidly middle class, from the traditional black middle class that has been well-off for several generations (better off than a lot of white people, financially) and also is from a family that had a lot of political and other connections in the area where she grew up. I would think that a lot of white people had more to struggle and overcome in their backgrounds than either Michelle or Obama did (and also, most of them are never going to be president either--only a few elite millionaires with a lot of connections usually qualify for that, something we all know is true although most people don't like to say so out loud).

 

[HollyS]

ame, I don't know where you live, but I live in the TX, and we don't treat blacks or Hispanics that way. Are there exceptions? Examples of racism that turned ugly? Yes, but they are the extreme, not the norm. It is rarer than you would think.

Men in this state (not boys or hipsters, men) will ALWAYS hold open a door for anyone right behind them, step aside for women, say "ma'am" and "sir" to everyone regardless of race, and frankly, would be ashamed to be thought of as discourteous. I've never seen outright racism or ugliness displayed by 'white' people like you have witnessed. And we're part of the South.

But, come to think of it, I did see more racism in the Midwest. Maybe down here we have more people who are not white (be they black, Hispanic, or Asian), so we've learned to live together like decent folks should. People of different races are our neighbors, not strangers to be ignored, ridiculed, or wary of. (And, because we know how hard illegals work, we're more tolerant than maybe we should be about how they came to be here.)

Or maybe we're just not as stereotypically crass here in Texas as the rest of the world wants to believe. Now, Oklahoma, on the other hand . . .

No, not true! We're no more crass in Oklahoma than in Texas. We are in fact SO modest and retiring that we WAIT and let Texas lead the way back to the 19th century with its emphasis on a hyped-up partisan Nationalist view of history that says "students must “describe the causes and key organizations and individuals of the conservative resurgence of the 1980s and 1990s, including Phyllis Schafly, the Contract with America, the Heritage Foundation, the Moral Majority, and the National Rifle Association.”, and its desire (no doubt modeled after the similar and oh-so-successful attempt in Dover, PA) to insert "intelligent design" into the science curriculum. We then merely slip modestly in behind and do the same.

Polite to a fault.

We do however beat you guys out by leading in the area of making sure women are "encouraged" to be barefoot and pregnant by increasingly 19th century-ish anti-abortion laws, so I suppose it's a wash.

See? I knew I could stir your pot.

Yup. Some silly Texans are a bit backward, and goodness knows we're mostly conservative to a fault (except for those dang liberals in Austin), but I was speaking of blatant racism displayed prominently. I also know there are undercover racists who might smile while silently cussing the 'different' person. But what I said was that courtesy while in public is the generally followed rule here.

Where is the quote from? Bibliography required when one is dissing another's state and its proclivities.

 

[ksinger]

ame, I don't know where you live, but I live in the TX, and we don't treat blacks or Hispanics that way. Are there exceptions? Examples of racism that turned ugly? Yes, but they are the extreme, not the norm. It is rarer than you would think.

Men in this state (not boys or hipsters, men) will ALWAYS hold open a door for anyone right behind them, step aside for women, say "ma'am" and "sir" to everyone regardless of race, and frankly, would be ashamed to be thought of as discourteous. I've never seen outright racism or ugliness displayed by 'white' people like you have witnessed. And we're part of the South.

But, come to think of it, I did see more racism in the Midwest. Maybe down here we have more people who are not white (be they black, Hispanic, or Asian), so we've learned to live together like decent folks should. People of different races are our neighbors, not strangers to be ignored, ridiculed, or wary of. (And, because we know how hard illegals work, we're more tolerant than maybe we should be about how they came to be here.)

Or maybe we're just not as stereotypically crass here in Texas as the rest of the world wants to believe. Now, Oklahoma, on the other hand . . .

No, not true! We're no more crass in Oklahoma than in Texas. We are in fact SO modest and retiring that we WAIT and let Texas lead the way back to the 19th century with its emphasis on a hyped-up partisan Nationalist view of history that says "students must “describe the causes and key organizations and individuals of the conservative resurgence of the 1980s and 1990s, including Phyllis Schafly, the Contract with America, the Heritage Foundation, the Moral Majority, and the National Rifle Association.”, and its desire (no doubt modeled after the similar and oh-so-successful attempt in Dover, PA) to insert "intelligent design" into the science curriculum. We then merely slip modestly in behind and do the same.

Polite to a fault.

We do however beat you guys out by leading in the area of making sure women are "encouraged" to be barefoot and pregnant by increasingly 19th century-ish anti-abortion laws, so I suppose it's a wash.

See? I knew I could stir your pot.

Yup. Some silly Texans are a bit backward, and goodness knows we're mostly conservative to a fault (except for those dang liberals in Austin), but I was speaking of blatant racism displayed prominently. I also know there are undercover racists who might smile while silently cussing the 'different' person. But what I said was that courtesy while in public is the generally followed rule here.

Where is the quote from? Bibliography required when one is dissing another's state and its proclivities.

You obviously required my presence for some reason, so I came. I live to serve.

And while I obviously was dissing Texas (an fine old Oklahoma pastime that never grows old) the quote itself was not dissing, just fact. I did pull it from one of the many, repetitive articles I pulled up by Googling "Texas history textbook controversy", but the text quoted can be found below in a .pdf, page 8. I like the fact that they strikethrough "capitalism" and replace it with "free enterprise system" - can't use "capitalism" - has a bad conotation don'cha know. The standards are fairly entertaining - (especially since you can see what they pick and choose amongst), in a macabre sort of way, if only because we tend to goosestep along with Texas at some point...sadly enough.

Proposed Revisions to 19 TAC Chapter 113,
Texas Essential Knowledge and Skills for Social Studies,
Subchapter C, High School and
19 TAC Chapter 118, Texas Essential Knowledge and Skills for Economics with Emphasis on the Free Enterprise
Subchapter A, High School System and Its Benefits

http://www.tea.state.tx.us/index2.aspx?id=3643 (click the link that says: High School (color coded), about halfway down the page)

And since this has gone COMPLETELY off the rails regarding the original topic.....I will bring it back....

I will say I don't usually have a problem with snooty shop assistants, although for the first time in all my trips to Santa Fe, I was very put off by one, finally. I was all excited to see a handmade chain in the case, and she looked and said, "Well, the chain is part of the piece" (it was holding a large opal pendant), I said, "Yes, I know, but I really would like to see that chain up close". She hesitated, and I said, "Ah, never mind." It was like it was too much trouble for her to get it out. I'm really not used to that, and won't put up with it. We left in a hurry; I told my husband, "Bad vibe." Sad too, because it used to be a fab jewelry store with a warm and wonderful staff from whom I bought several pieces. It is now a new jewelry store and well, it isn't warm anymore. Fairchild and Co. got my money this time, and my new peridot ring comes tomorrow. And all because they showed me what I wanted to see and weren't impatient OR pushy. Amazing how that works.

 

[ame]

I also know there are undercover racists who might smile while silently cussing the 'different' person.

I will agree with that also. I do encounter that a lot, too, where you can see something is processing up in the central hard drive but they're smiling and doing their best to act genuine. And that's here also.

 

[ksinger]

I also know there are undercover racists who might smile while silently cussing the 'different' person.

I will agree with that also. I do encounter that a lot, too, where you can see something is processing up in the central hard drive but they're smiling and doing their best to act genuine. And that's here also.

Less than ideal certainly, but better than the alternative. It's a start, right?

Ever watch "Guess Who's Coming to Dinner"? Perfect example of ideal in tension with reality.

 

[ame]

Nope, maybe I should.

I don't honestly think that being a fake is any better than showing your true colors.

 

[ksinger]

Nope, maybe I should.

I don't honestly think that being a fake is any better than showing your true colors.

I couldn't disagree more. Seriously? It's better to show your anger, fear, bigotry than not? Recipe for violence. Whatever happened to "If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all"? Many a counselor AND people who have done it, will tell you that ACTING a certain way - even when you don't FEEL that way, can go a long way to changing your MIND, just as the reverse can be true. That body-mind connection, dontcha know.

A goodly portion of "manners" is acting contrary to how you may feel or think, even in the face of provocation. Without that social lubricant, we'd all kill each other in short order.