Should I contact HR about this job situation?

[Haven]

You have received a lot of good advice but one more thing I want to point out is that when we see patterns emerging in our interpersonal lives -- be in bad job experiences, bad relationships, fights and drama with friends -- then it becomes important to look at our own role in creating the outcomes we are experiencing. We can't control others, but when non-random patterns emerge, it is time to look at ourselves and exert some control in that area

This is so good. I'm going to try to adhere this onto a sticky note in my mind to pull it up whenever I need a reminder of this, myself.

Just make sure you Bedazzle it

. . . and I just spit pretzel all over my computer monitor.

ShihTzuLover--I hope your day is going well. I've been there before, too. Hopefully you arrived at work only to realize that it isn't as horrible a situation as you thought it was all weekend. Let us know how it went!

 

[TravelingGal]

The bottom line on succeeding -- and liking -- a job is to find out what your superiors want and give it to them. In spades. Done better & quicker than they expect. That's where your rewards & praise lie -- and your growth as an adult. In life everyone deals every day with difficult people: teachers, colleagues, in-laws, relatives, neighbors. Learn to handle it or blubbler forever.


--- Laurie

Ding a ding dingalingaling!

TGuy and I have constant debates about corporate politics. He believes the quality of work should matter most, and therefore those who work hardest should be promoted first/most. I tell him, sure, in the ideal world. In the real world, what matters is dealing with people well and giving them what they want.

My boss is a lot of people's worst nightmare. 6 years ago, I had my run in with him and came home from a sales meeting ready to look for another job. But then I thought, I am better than this...I can find a way to win him over.

Our sales "team" is currently divided by geographic location. I'm west, and of course there is east. In the 7 years I have been at the company, there have been 5 people in that east coast position. Only one in the west (me). My boss adores me now...and I know how to work with him and for him, and get him to work for me. He's the easiest person to work for now. But boy, I still hear bits and bobs here and there about how absolutely crazy he is with other people (the stories would seriously freak you out...not illegal stuff like sexual harassment, but still pretty amazing, consider how he treats me vs others).

And I've also heard (from him directly too, actually) that he was reported to HR. MZ was right...HR is not your friend. He continues to have a job at this company and anyone who has reported him is no longer with us.

 

[decodelighted]

All this advice .... is like the secret they should tell kids in school. Only no kids would believe it. Idealism dies a hard death when confronted with corporate realities.

 

[TravelingGal]

All this advice .... is like the secret they should tell kids in school. Only no kids would believe it. Idealism dies a hard death when confronted with corporate realities.

Yeah...we keep telling kids that they are going to conquer the world (and I still love the idea of this, btw), but the reality for most people is the world tries to beat them down and they have to find a way to survive and thrive.

 

[decodelighted]

I am reminded of the metaphor of dog training. If the dog bites you, it's your fault. If the dog pees on the floor, it's your fault. Managing up is dog training.

Shitzulover, in your case you need to ask yourself what YOU could have done differently. At work - getting yelled at by a superior is a sign that you've done something wrong ... failed in your approach ... etc. Not a sign that THEY have transgressed. It's going to be a series of trials & errors as you perfect your approach to every different personality type. So develop thick skin.

Embarrassing you in front of your co-workers isn't *abusive* per se. Things you might never put up with in a romantic relationship -- are par for the course in workplaces. And EVERY workplace has some kind of version of this same thing. Lots of young people hop job to job until they realize that.

 

[beebrisk]

Sorry to hear about this...It reminds me so much of my first couple of years working.

Please note, everyone who has told you not to approach HR is correct. I made that same mistake many years ago and still look back on those few times and shudder. Not once did the situation conclude the way I wanted it to. In fact, it made everything worse. Complaining to HR (and really, it IS complaining) about a superior who has a longer history with your company and a more accomplished resume, will only serve to have you labeled as the problem and someone that can't handle the job. After all, he's been vetted and proven to be worthy of higher position and you are just now proving yourself. Unless this guy crosses some legal line (sexual harassment, physically abusive, etc..) you'd be well advised to keep your mouth firmly closed and your head held high. No one is saying not to stand up for yourself but taking it to HR can be job suicide.

Expect to be yelled at again. If not by him, by someone else. Expect that you will have many unpleasant and uncomfortable confrontations during the course of your career. The way you handle a bad situation between you and your co-workers will end up being far more important (and telling to your superiors) than the situation itself.

It's a hard lesson to learn I know.. but take it from the people who've been there and lived through worse.

 

[TravelingGal]

I am reminded of the metaphor of dog training. If the dog bites you, it's your fault. If the dog pees on the floor, it's your fault. Managing up is dog training.

Shitzulover, in your case you need to ask yourself what YOU could have done differently. At work - getting yelled at by a superior is a sign that you've done something wrong ... failed in your approach ... etc. Not a sign that THEY have transgressed. It's going to be a series of trials & errors as you perfect your approach to every different personality type. So develop thick skin.

Embarrassing you in front of your co-workers isn't *abusive* per se. Things you might never put up with in a romantic relationship -- are par for the course in workplaces. And EVERY workplace has some kind of version of this same thing. Lots of young people hop job to job until they realize that.

I'd clarify it to say that it's a sign that they have PERCEIVED that you've done wrong. Even if you really haven't. Perception counts for a lot in the workplace. Ever seen a colleague who seems to be slack, or not as bright, but is on great terms with management and keeps getting promoted? Somehow they perceive that person to be a good worker, because that's the illusion that person creates.

Even the most reasonable, fair person who has paid her dues and climbed the corporate ladder may not take well to a younger, more inexperienced person questioning her. The senior person, for whatever reason, has gotten there FOR a reason. That alone will cause a bit of "looking down one's nose" at less senior employees for various circumstances.

There are things in the workplace that one should never have to suck up. Unfortunately, tough personalities are everywhere, aren't illegal, and are a fact of life. It's sad that HR usually can't help, but it's the way it is.

 

[Karl_K]

You have been given some good advice in this thread.
I have worked with and for several people who would have quietly fired you or arranged for you to be fired for what you did.
While his yelling reaction is extreme it is not as uncommon as it should be.
Going to HR will just get you into more hot water than you already are.
I know it sucks, more than once I have wanted to punch some jerks teeth down their throats for that type of behavior.
Whats nice about working for myself is I can and have fired clients who act like that.
I would say that about one in 10 offices has someone like that in it so you will run into them again in your work life even if you changed jobs.

 

[iLander]

"My fiance wants to have a lawyer friend write a letter about the hostile work environment to HR, because he feels that will get more results than just letting my site director handle it (because he probably won't). Also, then it will be on file for the future. On the other hand, I know that it will anger my boss/site director/company to go over their heads."

I wanted to mention this before; BEWARE the fiance, boyfriend, girlfriend, neighbor, best friend, etc. They have only your feelings at heart, but they are not doing you a service. Most work advice from these people is incorrect at best, ruinous at worst.

We had an employee with us for over 5 years, and we had a great relationship with her. Then she got a new boyfriend. And she suddenly started coming to work with weird ideas; she wanted to be made a partner even though she was basically a secretary. There were many over her. Apparently, the unemployed boyfriend thought because she had been there so long that she should be a partner. Apparently, the annual raises, profit-sharing and bonuses, weren't enough. Her attitude became surly and rude, even to our clients. She went from a decent woman to a racist redneck. She started coming to work wearing only jeans and a biker leather vest (no bra). Yes, we had a written dress code. She made a racist remark to one of our clients. We had to warn her, apologize to the client, "not the attitude of the company, so sorry", etc. Every warning was met with "but I've been here so long that I should get special privileges"-type of response. A couple of weeks later she tried to get my DH to fire ME because she felt I wasn't respectful enough to her (DH and I own the company together). It was two years of warnings, but this was the last straw. DH finally fired her on the spot.

So, her boyfriend (eventual husband) fed her ego, and made her feel good about herself. Until her ego got so big, and her attitude so poor, we had to let her go. I heard that she was never able to find a job that paid her more than half of what we did. I wish her well and I'm sorry she shot herself in the foot like that.

 

[movie zombie]

i've read through this and want to add the following since my first response:

i could see myself approaching my immediate supervisor and asking how to limit my exposure to this individual AND what i should have done differently. it is not his problem that you were ready to leave. it was your problem and responsibility to see that he was busy. find out how she expects you to handle the situation....and be prepared to stay longer rather than leaving when you're ready to leave.

i'd also look at my action as many stated. i could see myself admitting my error in approaching him with someone in his office. i could also i can see myself giving him the benefit of the superior power position: apologize and asking him how we could work together to make sure it didn't happen again and still adhere to the rules set by the office/company as to how files are handled.

while he was over the top with yelling, this is not the first time and he's powerful enough in the company that you aren't going to change things. people in your life can be sympathetic and offer advice....but they need to stay out of it. i don't care how educated you are or are not: you are an entry level employee w/o a lengthy history of employment. if you want to have a good employment history, its time to learn how offices really run and what your exact position in the structure is or is not and act accordingly.

if in this instance you really had to leave rather wait until he was available to talk, perhaps the better course of action would have been to go to your immediate supervisor and let her handle it.

i hope today was productive and that you took an opportunity to talk with your supervisor.

watch MAD MEN and understand that not much really has changed in so very many ways.........

 

[beebrisk]

You have been given some good advice in this thread.
I have worked with and for several people who would have quietly fired you or arranged for you to be fired for what you did.
While his yelling reaction is extreme it is not as uncommon as it should be.
Going to HR will just get you into more hot water than you already are.
I know it sucks, more than once I have wanted to punch some jerks teeth down their throats for that type of behavior.
Whats nice about working for myself is I can and have fired clients who act like that.
I would say that about one in 10 offices has someone like that in it so you will run into them again in your work life even if you changed jobs.

What Karl said.

Just a little anecdote: My very first job was with one of the most prestigious women's speciality retailers in the country--if not the world. The fashion director was the third in command at the company. She was the "star" of the show.

She was also a well-known coke addict. She was irrational, nasty, imperious, and downright impossible.

One day my boss asked me to deliver a few designer suits to her office for review and I happily obliged. When I arrived she screamed like a lunatic and told me I had gotten there too late for a photo shoot. Obviously, I was stumped because I knew nothing about it except that I was asked to deliver the suits to her and I did so immediately.

I explained that I wasn't involved really, I was only "the messenger" and had delivered them in a very timely manner. I knew nothing of her request to my boss and was just following instructions as soon as I was given them.

That wasn't good enough for her. She carried on for a good 10 minutes, humiliating me, telling me she'd have me fired and that I'd never make it in the fashion business. To say the least, it was completely crazy and unreasonable behavior and there was obviously plenty of displaced anger on her part.

The episode shook me. I cried a lot and lost plenty of sleep. I knew I was right, I knew she was "unfair" and I was SURE I could make them understand. Big, big mistake. Being young and naive, I thought I'd have some "recourse" with HR so I scheduled an appointment and said my peace. They listened, offered a few condescending bits of advice like "...if you're not a part of the solution, you're part of the problem" and sent me on my way. It was a political minefield and I had stepped right into it.

From that day on, nothing was the same. I was pretty much treated like a pariah and ended up leaving about a year later. No loss for me since things turned better than I could have hoped. But that last year was dreadful for me. I was passed up for two promotions and "banished" to a department no one wanted to be in.

Yeah, they knew she was nuts and she ended up in rehab and it ruined her career. It didn't matter though. It didn't matter that I was right and she was wrong. What mattered was the perception of me by HR. And the perception was that I couldn't handle the pressure of working in that environment and that I didn't know how to handle a sticky situation. It was my very own "Devil Wears Prada" moment and I blew it.

Now I think back and laugh about it, but I don't ever laugh about it being a great learning experience. Move on from this and let it go. It's hard, I know but it's for the best.

 

[Karl_K]

This is how I would approach it:
if at all possible wait until he was free.
Then say.
I have a problem the <blank document>is a <working?> document and <my bosses name> told me that they should to be in my file cabinet before leave and I am responsible for it and I have to leave in X minutes.
Can you help me? (change as needed to fit your exact requirements)

best case he hands you the document.
If not and he says he needs it for whatever make a note of exactly what he said once you are away from him.

Bosses jobs are to solve problems, so you are approaching him on a level he understands in a non-threatening manner.
Whatever he decides if it becomes an issue you can say to your boss <his name> said .......... ..... ......... ......... and cover yourself.
It was his decision not yours.

 

[Cehrabehra]

At first I thought, wow people are harsh - he was an ass and something should be done about that! But you know, the more I think about it... the more right they are.

... but there is another side to this that we could maybe discuss or consider. Since you gave that file to person A, shouldn't that leave person A with the responsibility of returning it to you? If she had to turn it over, shouldn't she have let you know immediately so that you could make arrangements via email with mr grumpy?

I think you should discuss with your manager what the protocol should be in this situation. It shouldn't be expected you stay after work an unknowable amount of time. You should have a plan B for when a "superior" interferes with plan A.

 

[princesss]

I agree with so much of what has been said, and would add that sometimes you just don't get to leave wen you want to. It's just paying your dues. Can't leave until the file is back in place? Leave the guy be until he isn't meeting with somebody, and then ask when he thinks he'll be done with it. Not why he has the file, just an estimated completion time. It's just part of life in a company sometimes.

Hope yesterday was better.

 

[Clairitek]

I whole-heartedly agree that it is best not to go to HR with this kind of issue. Sexual harrassment is one thing, a moody jerk is another. I'm not saying he is in the right at all, but in reality nothing will be done and you'll end up in a negative light.

I hope this week is better and the next time you have to ask him about something he won't behave that way.

 

[Amber St. Clare]

I am reminded of the metaphor of dog training. If the dog bites you, it's your fault. If the dog pees on the floor, it's your fault. Managing up is dog training.

Shitzulover, in your case you need to ask yourself what YOU could have done differently. At work - getting yelled at by a superior is a sign that you've done something wrong ... failed in your approach ... etc. Not a sign that THEY have transgressed. It's going to be a series of trials & errors as you perfect your approach to every different personality type. So develop thick skin.

Embarrassing you in front of your co-workers isn't *abusive* per se. Things you might never put up with in a romantic relationship -- are par for the course in workplaces. And EVERY workplace has some kind of version of this same thing. Lots of young people hop job to job until they realize that.[/quote]


Simple yet profound. And the sooner one wakes up to this fact the better.

 

[zoebartlett]

I agree with so much of what has been said, and would add that sometimes you just don't get to leave wen you want to. It's just paying your dues. Can't leave until the file is back in place? Leave the guy be until he isn't meeting with somebody, and then ask when he thinks he'll be done with it. Not why he has the file, just an estimated completion time. It's just part of life in a company sometimes.

Hope yesterday was better.

Yes, I agree.

 

[Porridge]

The advice in this thread is GOLD. It should be printed, laminated, framed, and hung on walls all over the world.

Shitzu, I hope today went well for you? I can't say how much I agree with the advice given to go to your supervisor and ask what *you* can do better to avoid this in the future. I don't think that man was right to shout, at all, but that is largely irrelevant in the working world. These people exist, we've got to learn to deal with them and not let them get to us. What the bosses will see is someone who interrupted her superior and questioned his authority, just so she could go home on time and wouldn't have to wait an extra few minutes, and then cried when reprimanded for it. It may not be fair, but that's how it is. Asking for tips on what you can do to improve things would show remarkable maturity and commitment.

 

[Amys Bling]

"My fiance wants to have a lawyer friend write a letter about the hostile work environment to HR, because he feels that will get more results than just letting my site director handle it (because he probably won't). Also, then it will be on file for the future. On the other hand, I know that it will anger my boss/site director/company to go over their heads."

I wanted to mention this before; BEWARE the fiance, boyfriend, girlfriend, neighbor, best friend, etc. They have only your feelings at heart, but they are not doing you a service. Most work advice from these people is incorrect at best, ruinous at worst.

We had an employee with us for over 5 years, and we had a great relationship with her. Then she got a new boyfriend. And she suddenly started coming to work with weird ideas; she wanted to be made a partner even though she was basically a secretary. There were many over her. Apparently, the unemployed boyfriend thought because she had been there so long that she should be a partner. Apparently, the annual raises, profit-sharing and bonuses, weren't enough. Her attitude became surly and rude, even to our clients. She went from a decent woman to a racist redneck. She started coming to work wearing only jeans and a biker leather vest (no bra). Yes, we had a written dress code. She made a racist remark to one of our clients. We had to warn her, apologize to the client, "not the attitude of the company, so sorry", etc. Every warning was met with "but I've been here so long that I should get special privileges"-type of response. A couple of weeks later she tried to get my DH to fire ME because she felt I wasn't respectful enough to her (DH and I own the company together). It was two years of warnings, but this was the last straw. DH finally fired her on the spot.

So, her boyfriend (eventual husband) fed her ego, and made her feel good about herself. Until her ego got so big, and her attitude so poor, we had to let her go. I heard that she was never able to find a job that paid her more than half of what we did. I wish her well and I'm sorry she shot herself in the foot like that.

yea Ilander, I agree with you-

honestly, unless you want to get fired- I would NOT have your fiance do this...

 

[Cehrabehra]

I was wondering how the past week went for the OP - business as usual or are you stll really upset? What people said here is true, but you also have to find what works for *you and you need to be happy.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Reading through all of this reminds me of a situation my friend was recently in.

She had a similar experience at work. Not the same situation, but a situation where she felt humiliated, yelled at, and poorly treated at work. She talked to me about it. She was ready to quit and walk out! I am not sure my advice was the best, but suggested that she have an honest conversation with her immediate supervisor, because in her case her immediate supervisor was present when she was being yelled at/degraded. I suggested that she honestly and calmly convey to him that she felt degraded and dumped on in the situation, and that she felt a little disapppinted that he as her boss did not protect her, and ask him how he thinks she should move forward and how to avoid it in future. My thinking in that scenerio was that I believe supervisors owe their supervisees some protection from other higher-ups -- that is how I operate in my own supervisor role -- and also that work is not only about output and "work", but it is also about relationships. And sometimes, a little bit of honesty and assertiveness about how one expects to be treated in the workplace can go a long way to improving moral and productivity.

Reading through the replies in this thread I wonder if I should not have just told her to suck it up and shut up.

In the end she spoke to her supervisor, and he told he he did not perceive the situation at all how she did! He did not think she was ill treated in the least and was very surprised she felt that way! That was hard for my friend to hear, but it accomplished a few things. She felt good about making her feelings/needs known. And she also got a reality check I can't help but think that if she had said nothing, it would have festered and created problems, she likely would have ended up leaving.

So I guess my point is that managing interpersonal relationships is a huge part of the workplace. And I do think that we have a right to expect NOT to be verbally lambasted at work. I would not tolerate it, and interestingly, the fact that I would not tolerate such treatment likely is part of the reason it has never happened to me in the workplace But, I also know my place. I recall quite vividly a professor at my former institution who was well known for yelling at women and making them feel stupid and small. I over heard it! But he and I got along very well. I never interrupted him. I always kept him in the loop on projects. I was assertive in my communication and direct. Things he liked. Sometimes as an underling a little observation is good. It is our job as underlings to learn how to relate to our superiors after all.

 

[zoebartlett]

Dreamer, I agree with you and I don't think it's right AT ALL for an employee to be treated so badly. No one deserves to feel belittled.

 

[amc80]

I think one of the most important things to learn is that HR is there to protect the company. I had a situation at work and stupidly went to HR about it. Lesson learned. Basically, my boss sucked. She would spend an entire day writing out a list of things for me to do, and give it to me at 4:30 on Friday...and tell me it all needed to be done by 8am on Monday. Then, I would make the changes EXACTLY how she requested, and she would complain about them...um, I just did what you wanted me to do. I found out after I started the job that I was #5 in that position over the course of two years or so. She gave me a review after I had been there a year and basically told me I sucked and that I had the option of 1) quitting, or 2) going on probation (which would just end up in my being fired). I went to HR, but apparently she had beat me to it. They said she had "evidence" of my mistakes or whatever, which is complete BS. Keep in mind that up until this point, I had never EVER had a bad review or anything from any employer. I ended up coming to a compromise with my boss- I would leave but wanted two months to be able to find a job. She agreed, and I ended up finding a job within a week...one that paid more and had a better title.

So, the moral of my story, don't bother with HR. They aren't there for you, they are there to keep the company from being sued. That's it. And, I'm not sure what state you are in, but if you're in an at will employment state, they can let you go for just about anything, anyway.

 

[Deia]

I think you need to handle this on your own...fiance wanting to involve a lawyer because someone yelled at you in front of other people? ...... Please don't do that.

Take control of yourself and this bump in the road. Stop thinking people should deal with it for you. Have a quick word with your supervisor if you must, but don't blame this guy - just lay out the situation.

I have had a Managing Director sit at his desk and yell at me in front of his WHOLE team because of something that was completely OUT of my control. I was very upset. I shed a few tears in the ladies room and within 5 minutes went to speak to him. I was assertive and told him to never speak to me like that again and that what happened was not my fault and he knows it. Anyway, he never did again, and in fact, has been fired from our company (for unrelated reasons - but hey karma does bite back)

I don't think this is the right approach for your situation but as everyone else has pointed out, you need to change the way YOU deal with things. You shouldn't have interrupted him. If you feel he is already an ill tempered person, back off. Don't bother him. Ask him in a different way if you must. Making him think he is being a bother to you will not help your case.

Please don't go to HR for this. They will listen if you do, and may even put a note in his file, but nothing else will be done, he didn't abuse you, assault you, whatever. In the end the only thing that will happen is people will be even more aware that you are "too soft" and can't handle difficult situations well, on your own.

 

[galeteia]

Sadly, it is true that HR's role is to protect the interests of the company. I have only ever taken one issue to HR, and that was racial slurs/comments posted in a logged communication to the team, and even then I was metaphorically taken out behind the barn afterwards and yelled at for bringing it up.

I agree with whoever suggested a logging process be developed to hold people accountable for the files. If you have been put in a position where you are responsible for policing the actions of your superiors, which is an impossible situation to be in, having a procedure to follow relieves you from having to enforce it yourself through your personal authority, which the other manager has already made clear is non-existent.

I dealt with an issue today where someone came barreling in and attempted to discipline a member of someone else's team, while I was watching over them the manager's absence. Even though I outranked him and was technically able to address him for it, rather than going toe-to-toe with him and pulling rank, I stonewalled him and told him he needed to address his concern to the manager of the team and was not going to address the employee directly ... I literally stepped in between them and told him there was a process in place that he had to follow. He went to his supervisor (who happens to outrank ME) to fuss about me getting in the way, and he got slapped down with "you violated the PROCEDURE that you should have followed" which meant me and my authority (which he does not respect in the least) was beside the point as he had violated the process.

That way, he tripped up on the red tape thanks to his own blunders, and my nose was clean. Get yo self some red tape, gurl, and wave it like a streamer at a baton twirling competition. If he wants to fuss then, it will be between him and whoever approved the new process, and you will not be involved.

 

[Meezermom]

How he handled this was wrong (losing control and totally unprofessional) - however, that said how you handled it was wrong too:

1. He's management, you are not.
2. If you need to speak with someone and you see they have someone in their office, you don't just stand there and wait for him to notice you. You try again later when you know he's not in conference with someone. Whatever they are discussing is no concern to you. There is such a thing as office etiquette.
3. If it's a weekend and you need to leave because your day is over, you make a note as to who has the file(s) and you address it on Monday morning. How do you address it? If you know this guy flies off the handle, and you know he tries to throw people under the bus, you put it in writing and send him an email asking the status of the file(s). You add to the email that you went to speak with him before you left on Friday, but he had someone in his office and you didn't want to interrupt. You wait a respectful amount of time for him to reply, and if you don't get a response to your first email, you send a friendly "this is just a follow-up to my prior email about the status of those files. I have to have them done at a certain time. Thank you." The onus of having the audits or whatever done by a certain time falls on him and you've memorialized that by having a paper trail of emails.
4. Very important to remember: You do not own stock in that company, he has more years with that company, he is in a managerial position with that company, and if he is in possession of those files, he is responsible for them. As I stated above, just keep notes and emails as to where those files are.
5. You sound young and inexperienced in the working world. That's not meant as a dig at you - this was/is a learning experience for you, and not just how to do your job, but how to deal with and handle people.

 

[shihtzulover]

Hi Everyone,

It's been a long time, and I've been thinking about this thread, so I decided that it's a good time to come back and post an update. I'm sorry for kind of dropping off the face of the planet for awhile, but I just needed some time to back away and think.

I'm still at the job, and there are still really tough times. I'm coming up on my full year of employment there though, and I'm deciding what steps to take now.

There were some facts that I left out before, that might make the situation make more sense. I was trying to keep it general and not too detailed, but the other pieces of information might explain it better. This is actually an outpatient medical facility, so the files that I was referring to are our patients' medical records.

Every person at my facility started with the company when I did, since it was brand new and they hired all new people. The manager that yelled at me is the head nurse, and my boss is the administrative manager. I am the medical records auditor/leader, and I am the only one at the facility with the education and background in medical records. This is my boss' first job in the medical field. As far as I know, the head nurse has never been in management before this. In fact, I don't believe that any of the managers have been in management positions before, except my boss. My company is known for paying considerably less than the average, so they tend to get inexperienced people. When I took the job I didn't mind that, since I was looking to build my resume and gain the experience, but you live and learn.

As the medical records auditor/leader, it is my responsibility to maintain control of the records. The record that the head nurse had taken was not one that was available to him at the time (although he may not have been aware), but there was a reason for that. Regardless, everyone is required to tell me when they're taking the records out of their designated areas that were set up by my supervisor. They have to have an acceptable reason to look at them (since they are highly confidential and can only be accessed on a need-to-know basis), and also because they can't make alternations to inactive records (which this one was) without my knowledge and advice on if it's okay to write something, and how to properly write a late entry, etc.

Per my supervisor's request, a new administrative assistant had been filing loose papers and scanning, but she didn't realize that she wasn't supposed to let anyone else have the record. Even if she had known that, this manager is known for flying off the handle quite often, so she may not have felt comfortable saying no. In my position though, I have to uphold the ethical and legal standards of my field, so I had to get it from him. Otherwise, someone could be looking at something that they shouldn't be, I could get into trouble if changes were made and weren't properly audited (it could look like I had made a mistake while originally looking at the file), something inaccurate could be written in without my knowledge, and I couldn't testify in court that I knew who had this record at any given time, and why they had it.

I believe that I considered going to my supervisor to have her take it up with the head nurse, but I believe that her door was closed at the time (I can't remember every detail anymore, since it's been so long), and also that would give him more time with the record. Also, I had just had my 90-day evaluation, and her only suggestions for improvement were that I take more control and 'put more teeth into' my emails.

It doesn't help that this particular manager was already angry at me because he had wanted to look over another controlled record not long before, but he was not allowed access to it, and my supervisor had me sit with him while he looked over it. I know that made him defensive and angry, but unfortunately, that's the way that it is.

Anyway, since then, a few other things have made me upset, but I'm really just trying to hold out. I think I previously mentioned that the structure of our facility is a bit different than the others in the company. In most, the facility director and the administrative manager are the only management team members, but here, we also have a head nurse and a few other 'lead' positions. It puts me in an awkward position, because I'm still not a management team member, but I have to audit their work and report everything. I also must audit their employees' work, and report the problems that I find. It equates to me being told off and laughed at a lot, but I don't have the actual authority to do anything. Also, I feel that I have the responsibility to ensure that documentation issues are corrected, but I don't have any sort of authority at all - and the management team members don't like that an inferior employee finds and points out their mistakes, so they don't want to give me the time of day.

It's really confusing for me, because one minute I'm being told that it's part of my job to tell everyone when they have access to the records, how to document properly and when the monthly reviews are due (and making sure that we actually receive everything on time, and that it's completed appropriately), but then the next minute I'm being told off for sending out a memo to all of the nurses regarding a documentation issue, because I'm apparently not allowed to do that. I had never been told that before, and I had in fact been told (by someone in my equivalent position at another of our company's facilities) in training that she sends out these memos all the time. Not only was I told off by the head nurse, but all of the nurses were copied on the email (and yet they're supposed to take me seriously when I tell them that something needs to be done?), and no one said a word to him about it.

My own boss wants to be copied on everything that leaves our department, and she always wants to review every email that I send out before I send it. That doesn't seem so bad, but I feel so cut off from the people who originally hired me, and when they come in and complete their own audits, it's going to look like I didn't do my job. Also, sometimes they email me directly and ask me questions about the records, but I'm not allowed to respond without my supervisor's review and permission - so I can't speak up about our true problems, and I just look incompetent ad like I don't know what's going on. Also, if my supervisor isn't in for a few days, I can't respond to the emails until she comes in, and I then look like I'm ignoring their questions - and these are the people who hired me, and they would likely be the ones to promote me.

Speaking of promotions - I had applied for one. One came open in another area and I wanted it, so I decided to go for it. It was a position that I had originally interviewed for before I accepted this lower position - and I had been told that I would be promoted when I got a little bit of experience with the company, and also when something came open. Anyway, I put in my application before the internal closing date, and I got a call a few days later. The facility director there was just calling to tell me that she had just received my application, but that she was already about to offer the position to someone else - an external candidate. That totally blew me away, because our own policy states that internal applicants get first priority, yet I wasn't even given an interview.

Anyway, our facility director is very laid back and doesn't really do much because he doesn't want to upset anyone, and the managers (well, specifically the head nurse) just get angry and yell, and then just ignore me. They don't comply with what I tell them about documentation regulations, yet I know that when the people who hired me see this, it could very well look like I didn't do my job - especially since I haven't been contacting them for help (per my supervisor, I'm not allowed to unless she okays it, and they don't really seem to want to have upper management find out about our issues). I don't know how I could ever get promoted like this.

My last job obviously had its own downfalls, but there I was a management team member, so I was able to better enforce the documentation rules. The employees didn't talk to me disrespectfully and laugh at me like the people here do, because they knew that they couldn't. I also had other management team members who would rally with me and who I could go to lunch with, etc., but it's different here.

So, that's pretty much the update. I'm just trying to decide where to go from here, and if I should stick it out for awhile longer, or if I should pursue other employment.

PS. I just want to thank you all again for your advice. It was obviously not the right decision to not involve lawyers or HR, and I was just very upset at the time and not thinking very clearly.

 

[TooPatient]

That sounds like a tough situation. The details help explain the significance behind what happened!

I have similar frustrations where I am. I'm required to write (within strict guidelines) policies and make sure my bosses comply -- then I have to sign my name certifying that they are in compliance as well as answer to auditors (internal and regulatory). The problem is that my bosses flat out REFUSE to comply with the minimum guidelines. Nothing I can do about it.

The situation sucks. I was at least able to add a line into our policy giving one of the bosses signing authority equal to me so that he can put his name on record for compliance.


I'm sorry you're dealing with that mess. I know it isn't pleasant.

 

[movie zombie]

things make much more sense now.
wish you had provided a bit more detail originally.
you've got your year: get out.
you're in a no win situation.
document document document. even now because if you're going to look like your not doing your job, you want to have evidence to the contrary.

good luck.

 

[radiantquest]

I read this earlier and couldn't post from my phone and I am replying now without reading the others so that I can give you my initial impression.

First of all I have very strong opinions about yelling. I think that there is no reason whatsoever for someone to to yell at someone else out of anger. They may be supervisors, but they don't own you, and are not better than you. You deserve as much respect as anyone else simply because you are a human being.

As far as the angry supervisor goes...He will most likely have a heart attack in the next five years. I am willing to bet that his blood pressure is through the roof.

I would not go to HR at this point. Remember, sh!t rolls down hill. If someone gets upset at corporate, every one in the office will feel the heat. Not just the person responsible with the inappropriate behavior. It may make things much worse for you if everyone is pissed at you for taking it out of the branch and you have no allies against this guy. The director may not agree with what he is doing to you and the other employees, but he is in business. If it isn't apparent that the angry supervisor is slipping on his duties and he thinks that he does a good job, then unfortunately it doesn't matter how badly he treats you or anyone else. If he is taking the business in the right direction that may be the only real concern the director has.

If I were you I would schedule a meeting with the director. I would make it very clear (possibly in writing for safe measure)that you do not tolerate this behavior from anyone. I would tell him that you are very happy to follow his chain of command and keep the things that go on in the branch in the branch, but inform him you are filing a formal complaint with him. Warn that if the angry supervisors behavior does not change you will be going to HR with the next incident. -This way you are doing what the higher ups ask of you, but ensuring that something changes or you will be forced to go to corporate. If after this meeting nothing changes and there is another confrontation then you have every right to go to HR in corporate in good conscience.