Should I contact HR about this job situation?

[shihtzulover]

I had issues with my previous job, and I really don't want to start any sort of drama at my current one, but I'm not sure that I can just sit there and do nothing anymore. The thought of going back tomorrow and acting like everything is okay makes me feel sick to my stomach. Basically, one of the managers of my branch completely humiliated me on Friday afternoon:

This manager always has a temper, and he always gets away with it. On top of that, he doesn't do what he needs to do, but then he accuses his own employees (luckily, I'm not on his team) of not doing them, and he writes them up.

I audit files, and I had certain ones in my filing cabinet because they were in a certain stage of audit. Someone else needed it for something, so I gave it to them. I was about to leave for the evening, so I asked her for it, and she told me that this manager took it.

I went to his office to ask him what he was doing and how long it would be, because it was time for me to leave. These files are my responsibility when they're in my possession, and this one was not in a stage where it would be available for general use - it needed to go back in my filing cabinet before I left. He might have thought that it was out and available for his use because the other girl had it, but it wasn't. Also, my manager and I are in charge of the distribution of the files, and she already sent out an email explaining that the files are not to leave the designated room without my permission, even when they are out for corrections. Since he (well really, one of his employees was carrying it) had brought it to his office, it obviously wasn't in the designated room anymore.

Anyway, I stood in the open doorway until I was acknowledged, since they (he had one of his employees in his office) were in the middle of a conversation. I calmly asked how long they would have it, and he said that he would bring it back to me when he was done with it. When I explained that I would be leaving soon, he started getting upset, and told me that he would put it in the cabinets in the designated room when he was done, and asked me if those cabinets locked. I was confused by the question and responded that they don't lock (not that it has anything to do with the situation, which is what confused me). He started to get more upset and rant, and I couldn't really understand his accent or what he was saying. I then asked why he had the file (trying to figure out how long it would be, and also, I do have the right to ask that, since it was supposed to be my possession, and I have to know where they are and if anything is being written in them), and he flew off the handle.

He started raising his voice more and hollering that he wasn't going to tell me what he was doing, and he slammed the door in my face, even though I was right in front of the door and talking to him.

I went to tell my supervisor, but then he came down the hall, and my supervisor called him over. He walked up to me, shouting again and pointing his finger at me, telling me that he is a supervisor and I will not talk to him that way and question him, and that his job is more hectic than mine, etc. I argued back a bit, but he shouted over me.

My supervisor had to get in front of him to try to get him to calm down, but he ignored her. He also went to our director's office (one door down from where we were, so he could hear everything), and shouted that this wasn't the first time that I treated him this way, and that something needs to be done about it.

Meanwhile, I started to cry a little bit (I'm so mad that I did, but it was just completely humiliating), but the director (his immediate boss) did nothing. My supervisor apologized 'for him', and she and the site director said that they would talk to him, but I know that nothing will happen.

I just feel so humiliated because he was yelling at me like that in front of everyone, like I'm nothing. I was just doing my job, and it's my responsibility to know what's going on with those files when I have them.

He could have just told me that he was doing the corrections that I assigned to him, and that he would give it back in five minutes, which was apparently all that it was - but instead, he blew up at me in front of everyone who happened to be around. Even if it was just a big misunderstanding, or if he thought that I was talking to him in an inappropriate way, it is not acceptable for him to act like that under any circumstances.

I couldn't stop crying. He has been like this before, and he always has a temper and I can hear him shouting on the phone in his office, but it's never been this bad before. I have heard him shouting about me to our director, saying that I don't know what I'm talking about and that I don't have the authority to tell him to do certain things (even though the director told me to), but he didn't yell directly at me that time. The director never really says anything to him, and just lets him continue throwing fits.

I don't know what to do. He normally has a temper and I hear him yelling on the phone and through the walls, etc. He has tried to throw me under the bus before, saying that I never sent him certain emails, etc., because he didn't follow up on them properly so wanted to act like I didn't ever send them. Since it was between him and his team getting in trouble and me, he wanted to save them from trouble and act like I never sent the emails. I told him that I had records of the emails so we could look back and see what I sent, and he didn't say anything about it anymore.

I also have a couple of rude/unprofessional emails from him. One directed toward me, and one kind of to me, but also rude to the other managers. No one ever does anything though, because our director doesn't want to be confrontational.

Since no one ever does anything and our director never writes anyone up unless it comes from our regional manager that he has to, I really don't feel like anything will be done. IF they even talk to him, it will just be a conversation, and our director will gently tell him that he shouldn't do that, and then he will carry on some more and walk out of the office, and continue acting like this.

I don't even know if I have the right to ask on Monday whether or not this has been addressed, since I am not on the management level. I don't know if I should send an official complaint to HR, because I'm not sure if that will get me anywhere, either. Also, our director does not like it when I go outside of our office for advice from other people in our company, like the company's quality assurance manager. Even though she's the only one with the answers that I need sometimes, he wants me to 'follow the chain of command' and ask my supervisor and him, even though they don't have a clue about file audits. We do not have an HR representative at our branch, so if I were to do this, I would have to contact our corporate HR team.

My fiance wants to have a lawyer friend write a letter about the hostile work environment to HR, because he feels that will get more results than just letting my site director handle it (because he probably won't). Also, then it will be on file for the future. On the other hand, I know that it will anger my boss/site director/company to go over their heads.

I should add that this is by far not the first incident at this office (there have been many others, including some with my own supervisor), but I've really tried to bite my tongue and just stay at the job so that I can have a long-term position to put on my resume. However, I feel that what happened on this past Friday cannot go unaddressed.

I know that some of you will tell me to look for a new job, but that's where it gets tricky. I was really just trying to make a full year here, because my fiancé and I actually moved to this city so that I could take this job (he telecommutes to work). However, even forgetting about my job situation, we are not happy with the area here, and the city is not what we expected, so our plan was to just stay here until our lease runs out (in August), and then move back to our old city. I'm not even sure whether or not I was planning to find another job at that point. It's not a necessity at all, but I just wanted some experience in my field, in case I want to go back to work later. I also wanted to stay somewhere for a full year at least, just to have a stable job on my resume.

Even if I do choose to continue working, I doubt that I will even go back to this field in our city, because it's so difficult to find a job in it there. I was planning to find a more general office job, hopefully using the fact that I have a four-year degree, and I was also planning to take some general business classes.

Honestly, this place makes my last job look like a dream. Although things were bad there, I was never disrespected this much, and i was also a management team member there. Here, I am expected to take on management-level responsibilities (because I am qualified for them, but there were no higher positions open at the the time that I was hired, and this job was just supposed to get me in with the company and be a stepping stone until I was promoted - which doesn't look like it would happen anytime soon), but I have no authority and none of the perks of being one.

 

[movie zombie]

1st, HR is not your friend. HR is there to protect the interests of your employer.

i'm betting this guy has been reported before. if your direct line boss does not like you going outside, then go directly to that person. discuss your concerns and your not wanting to be treated like that again. work with that person to minimize your exposure to him.

if not working when you return to your prior city in august is an option and you've got 1 year of experience in, can you not quit now?

i would not tolerate being treated in that way when doing my job. i'm old enough to have been around the block and am realistic. filing a complaint with HR is what you should do but will create a whole 'nother can of worms that i'm not sure you are prepared to deal with.

its nice that a legal friend would write a letter to HR for you but unless you demonstrate that you've gone through the entire "chain of command" to rectify the situation before you do that, well, i'm afraid it will do more harm than good. meet with your direct boss and document that in a letter of understanding back to that person. if no satisfaction, meet with the next level and on.

this guy has survived there for a reason.......and his behavior is obviously tolerated. think very carefully how you proceed.

again, HR IS NOT YOUR FRIEND. there are may reasons for this despite the laws in place to protect employees. do not be fooled.

disclaimer: this is not a knock against HR people. there are many good HR people but they are also hampered by their employers. the OP needs to realize that you are also a paid employee and reliant on office politics.

 

[Amys Bling]

Hmm I would tread lightly around this guy- clearly he has a temper and he is your superior. When it comes down to it my concern would be that he would pull "rank" on me and I would be considered the guilty party. Please be careful with this- wish I had better advise

 

[iLander]

I'm going to sound a bit harsh, but I think it's time someone gave you an honest opinion. Honesty is extremely rare.

IF they even talk to him, it will just be a conversation, and our director will gently tell him that he shouldn't do that, and then he will carry on some more and walk out of the office, and continue acting like this.

What exactly do you think they should do? Fire him? Get real.

I then asked why he had the file (trying to figure out how long it would be, and also, I do have the right to ask that, since it was supposed to be my possession, and I have to know where they are and if anything is being written in them), and he flew off the handle.He started raising his voice more and hollering that he wasn't going to tell me what he was doing, and he slammed the door in my face, even though I was right in front of the door and talking to him.

He's right. You are an underling, and he doesn't answer to you. Pretty simple.

Honestly, this place makes my last job look like a dream. Although things were bad there, I was never disrespected this much, and i was also a management team member there.

And the next job is going to be even worse, until you adjust your attitude. You have to wake up and smell the coffee about business: $hit rolls downhill. You are downhill. That's all there is to it.

This is the second time you've complained about a job issue. I am not sure what you expect. Are you looking for praise and appreciation? Unless you are working for your family, that's EXTREMELY rare. In the workplace, respect is earned. You need to put in a lot of time (several years) before you've earned it. I think that once you've been at a place for many years, and some new hire comes in and asks why you have a file, you might be a bit upset as well.

You suck it up, go to work on Monday, and do your job. Just as millions of other people do. Or get a new job, and expect this cycle to begin again soon.

 

[Mikla]

First of all, that guy is a jerk and his public performance just shows everyone else what an idiot he is. You shouldn't have interrupted him, and probably shouldn't have questioned him in front of other people, but his reaction was over the top. You shouldn't take that as a reflection on you if he doesn't know how to act professionally at work. Secondly, if you only want a year's experience on your resume and to work until August, keep that in mind when things like these happen. You are not really invested in the job for the long run, so do what you have to do to survive until August. Remember that you won't be there forever and you are doing something good for yourself by fulfilling your goal of having a year's tenure at this job on your resume, which will help you in your job search for the rest of your career. Also, it doesn't hurt to learn how to interact with people in a way that is less likely to provoke a negative reaction. Try to develop a thicker skin by learning from this experience. It won't happen overnight but learning how to deal with difficult situations is a skill you really need to be successful in the long run. Going to HR will just create more drama and you don't want that. You will deal with awful managers from time to time in your career; it's just a fact of life. Believe in yourself and keep your head held up high. Show everyone that you are tough and won't stoop down to his level by responding to his behavior. Take away his power by showing confidence in yourself and not giving him the reaction that he wants. You will be the better person and better employee for it.

Best of luck,
Mikla

 

[chemgirl]

I'm going to sound a bit harsh, but I think it's time someone gave you an honest opinion. Honesty is extremely rare.

IF they even talk to him, it will just be a conversation, and our director will gently tell him that he shouldn't do that, and then he will carry on some more and walk out of the office, and continue acting like this.

What exactly do you think they should do? Fire him? Get real.

I then asked why he had the file (trying to figure out how long it would be, and also, I do have the right to ask that, since it was supposed to be my possession, and I have to know where they are and if anything is being written in them), and he flew off the handle.He started raising his voice more and hollering that he wasn't going to tell me what he was doing, and he slammed the door in my face, even though I was right in front of the door and talking to him.

He's right. You are an underling, and he doesn't answer to you. Pretty simple.

Honestly, this place makes my last job look like a dream. Although things were bad there, I was never disrespected this much, and i was also a management team member there.

And the next job is going to be even worse, until you adjust your attitude. You have to wake up and smell the coffee about business: $hit rolls downhill. You are downhill. That's all there is to it.

This is the second time you've complained about a job issue. I am not sure what you expect. Are you looking for praise and appreciation? Unless you are working for your family, that's EXTREMELY rare. In the workplace, respect is earned. You need to put in a lot of time (several years) before you've earned it. I think that once you've been at a place for many years, and some new hire comes in and asks why you have a file, you might be a bit upset as well.

You suck it up, go to work on Monday, and do your job. Just as millions of other people do. Or get a new job, and expect this cycle to begin again soon.

Sorry but I have to agree. I think another mistake was approaching him while he was talking to somebody else. Interrupting him was disrespectful and started the interaction off on a negative note. If possible, I would suggest emailing him when he's in the office with someone. Best policy is to wait for him to finish with whomever he's meeting with, or excuse yourself if its an emergency. Waiting by the door while he's in the middle of a conversation is not the way to go.

That said, he has no right to yell at you. The problem is that his behaviour seems to be tolerated and I don't see you being the one to change that.

On another note entirely, several short jobs (even one year is relatively short) on a resume doesn't look great to a potential employer. Most companies don't want to take the time to train someone who has a track record of leaving jobs.

 

[Amys Bling]

I'm going to sound a bit harsh, but I think it's time someone gave you an honest opinion. Honesty is extremely rare.

IF they even talk to him, it will just be a conversation, and our director will gently tell him that he shouldn't do that, and then he will carry on some more and walk out of the office, and continue acting like this.

What exactly do you think they should do? Fire him? Get real.

I then asked why he had the file (trying to figure out how long it would be, and also, I do have the right to ask that, since it was supposed to be my possession, and I have to know where they are and if anything is being written in them), and he flew off the handle.He started raising his voice more and hollering that he wasn't going to tell me what he was doing, and he slammed the door in my face, even though I was right in front of the door and talking to him.

He's right. You are an underling, and he doesn't answer to you. Pretty simple.

Honestly, this place makes my last job look like a dream. Although things were bad there, I was never disrespected this much, and i was also a management team member there.

And the next job is going to be even worse, until you adjust your attitude. You have to wake up and smell the coffee about business: $hit rolls downhill. You are downhill. That's all there is to it.

This is the second time you've complained about a job issue. I am not sure what you expect. Are you looking for praise and appreciation? Unless you are working for your family, that's EXTREMELY rare. In the workplace, respect is earned. You need to put in a lot of time (several years) before you've earned it. I think that once you've been at a place for many years, and some new hire comes in and asks why you have a file, you might be a bit upset as well.

You suck it up, go to work on Monday, and do your job. Just as millions of other people do. Or get a new job, and expect this cycle to begin again soon.

Sorry but I have to agree. I think another mistake was approaching him while he was talking to somebody else. Interrupting him was disrespectful and started the interaction off on a negative note. If possible, I would suggest emailing him when he's in the office with someone. Best policy is to wait for him to finish with whomever he's meeting with, or excuse yourself if its an emergency. Waiting by the door while he's in the middle of a conversation is not the way to go.

That said, he has no right to yell at you. The problem is that his behaviour seems to be tolerated and I don't see you being the one to change that.

On another note entirely, several short jobs (even one year is relatively short) on a resume doesn't look great to a potential employer. Most companies don't want to take the time to train someone who has a track record of leaving jobs.

Have to agree with this. When it all boils down to it- he is your superior and you interrupted him to question what he was doing. I absolutely don't condone his behavior and probably would have cried to the bathroom afterwards if i were you- but I don't think there is a favorable outcome for you if you go to HR or report his behavior.

I'd plaster on a smile- do my job- and minimize contact and interaction with him as much as possible.

 

[VRBeauty]

I think your best bet is to go to your immediate supervisor and essentially say... this is the situation (it was time for me to leave and the file was out of my possession) - how should I proceed next time to avoid the kind of scene that happened on Friday. Keep it short, don't try to justify or blame in any way, and keep the focus on preventing that kind of problem in the future.

I'm not a lawyer, but given what you've said about your company, I don't think the "hostile work environment" thing would get you anywhere, unless you want to make it a civil rights issue (you're in a protected class and the actions were directed at you because you're part of that protected class.) And as MZ said, HR is more likely to circle the wagons - with you on the outside of that circle - than to help you.

 

[Fly Girl]

I'm going to sound a bit harsh, but I think it's time someone gave you an honest opinion. Honesty is extremely rare.

IF they even talk to him, it will just be a conversation, and our director will gently tell him that he shouldn't do that, and then he will carry on some more and walk out of the office, and continue acting like this.

What exactly do you think they should do? Fire him? Get real.

I then asked why he had the file (trying to figure out how long it would be, and also, I do have the right to ask that, since it was supposed to be my possession, and I have to know where they are and if anything is being written in them), and he flew off the handle.He started raising his voice more and hollering that he wasn't going to tell me what he was doing, and he slammed the door in my face, even though I was right in front of the door and talking to him.

He's right. You are an underling, and he doesn't answer to you. Pretty simple.

Honestly, this place makes my last job look like a dream. Although things were bad there, I was never disrespected this much, and i was also a management team member there.

And the next job is going to be even worse, until you adjust your attitude. You have to wake up and smell the coffee about business: $hit rolls downhill. You are downhill. That's all there is to it.

This is the second time you've complained about a job issue. I am not sure what you expect. Are you looking for praise and appreciation? Unless you are working for your family, that's EXTREMELY rare. In the workplace, respect is earned. You need to put in a lot of time (several years) before you've earned it. I think that once you've been at a place for many years, and some new hire comes in and asks why you have a file, you might be a bit upset as well.

You suck it up, go to work on Monday, and do your job. Just as millions of other people do. Or get a new job, and expect this cycle to begin again soon.

I'm afraid that I agree. The problem began when you pestered him about the file. People are more important than files. You need to figure out a way to stay on top of the files without upsetting your co-workers. I would go to work on Monday and do your job and be as nice to your co-workers as possible. You are a team, all working to get the work done as efficiently as possible.

 

[kenny]

Uhg!
Sorry you have to experience this.

Sucky job situations suck.
In all other relationships we have more power to adjust relationships or end contact with sucky people.
But when we need the money from a job it's not always that simple.
Interpersonal relationships in the workplace are complex, nuanced, and very important.

Navigating this minefield is VERY essential to not only your career, but to your happiness in the place where you will spend most of your waking life.

Frankly, what you're describing doesn't sound THAT bad.
Honestly, you sound too sensitive, in that you still expect people to be how they are "supposed" to be.
When others misbehave you take it too personally.
You lose your balance and are knocked off your bicycle.
This is more common in young people than older people who usually have more acceptance that others just don't meet our standards.

All things considered I'd say accept that while this guy sucks, getting money to live on is why you're there.
In this case I'd say buck up, and stick it out.

The way I see it, I'm being paid not just to do my job but to tolerate some amount of crap. (because here it is again, people vary, some yell and have personalities different from yours)
Anywhere you work there will be some crap, different crap, but some crap.
Try to not let it get to you.

You feel this crap crosses a line.
I recommend you just move that line in your mind and enjoy getting a paycheck.
Paychecks shouldn't be taken for granted these days.

 

[Porridge]

Spot on, Kenny.

 

[kenny]

more...
This is easy for me to say but:
Rise above his bad behavior.
Forgive him.

Not that what he's doing is okay, but look for little opportunities to improve your relationship with this guy.
Be the better person here.

You can't control him, but you are in control of how he affects you.
Instead of letting him push your buttons disconnect the wires going to your buttons and take charge of your experience.

 

[TooPatient]

I think your best bet is to go to your immediate supervisor and essentially say... this is the situation (it was time for me to leave and the file was out of my possession) - how should I proceed next time to avoid the kind of scene that happened on Friday. Keep it short, don't try to justify or blame in any way, and keep the focus on preventing that kind of problem in the future.

I'm not a lawyer, but given what you've said about your company, I don't think the "hostile work environment" thing would get you anywhere, unless you want to make it a civil rights issue (you're in a protected class and the actions were directed at you because you're part of that protected class.) And as MZ said, HR is more likely to circle the wagons - with you on the outside of that circle - than to help you.

I like VR's approach. It doesn't blame and shows you taking the attitude of moving forward in a positive way. Your supervisor is aware of his attitude and has dealt with him longer than you have. She may have some ideas on how to best interact with him (when you have to). It also shows you following "the chain of command" (which is pretty much expected regardless of where you work).

One suggestion I'd add is to look at the policies on the files you deal with. You might find that it is recommended that you keep a log for people to sign out/in files (and while they are out, they are directly responsible and MUST return them to you themselves by the end of the day) -- if something like this isn't in place, you might suggest such a policy to your supervisor (not immediately, give some time for this to clear up first) as it would keep a better trail of where files are and who has handled them in the course of an audit.

 

[Haven]

I'm sorry you're dealing with this. It really does suck to feel so yucky about going to work every day. I've been there. Hugs to you.

I do agree with Kenny that the key is to figure out how to manage your own reactions to this guy. I also agree with other posters that questioning someone who is your higher-up at work is the quickest way to make an enemy out of said higher-up. Especially if he is someone who views others based on their positions of power, instead of as individual people. It's not nice, but unfortunately I think it's common

I know you only asked why he had the file because you were trying to get a time-frame out of him, but next time I'd just ask for the exact information you need--When can I expect to have the file back?--as that can't be interpreted as you "not knowing your place" as far as he is concerned.

 

[JewelFreak]

Rule 1 in a job: Never Cry. Never. Not in front of anyone, not in the ladies' room, not anywhere. Save it till you get home. Breaking out in tears makes an employee look immature & self-indulgent. It also accomplishes zero toward solving any problem, annoys hell out of people who must deal with you.

A big lesson to be learned in early jobs is that a business-place is not like a tea party. Civility & thoughtfulness are required both places, but beyond that, different expectations apply. Your desires, needs, and comfort are no one's primary concern. You are important only according to how well you contribute to the basic goals of any business: working smoothly with colleagues, getting your work done quickly and well, essentially doing your part to add to sales & profit growth. How any single employee feels about that is immaterial; she is always welcome to go somewhere else.

The advice to talk to your supervisor about how to avoid conflict in the future is excellent. Ask & listen; don't give excuses or complain. Genuinely want to learn how to improve your own performance.

Give yourself enough time there to gain perspective. How important is it that You put the files back, or can you trust this guy to follow through? Does it matter if he doesn't remember to do it? If it must be you alone, let him know pleasantly that quitting time is approaching; phrase it as a respectful & friendly heads-up. If necessary, stay 10 or 20 minutes late to accommodate him. He'll remember.

The bottom line on succeeding -- and liking -- a job is to find out what your superiors want and give it to them. In spades. Done better & quicker than they expect. That's where your rewards & praise lie -- and your growth as an adult. In life everyone deals every day with difficult people: teachers, colleagues, in-laws, relatives, neighbors. Learn to handle it or blubbler forever.

This guy's reaction was as unprofessional as yours; I'm not excusing him. My suggestion is to try to make an admirer of him. If you know what pushes his buttons, don't do it. Give him what he asks in a pleasant & businesslike manner -- before long you'll have him on your side. Life is not a tv show where all resolves itself in an hour. The better we deal with that reality, the happier we are in the long run.

--- Laurie

 

[Haven]

JewelFreak--Your advice is excellent, clear, and so very important. I feel we should incorporate it into a college class or two to help our students transition into their first real jobs.

 

[Imdanny]

Take away his power by showing confidence in yourself and not giving him the reaction that he wants.

This.

I know it's hard in the moment, but when that moment passes and you've not lost your temper... I think you'll be very glad. In other words, don't say (or do) something you will regret.

Please understand I'm not saying I think his behavior is acceptable. I don't care if he's your superior. It's just bizarre and wrong for him to be yelling at you. But you do have a choice about how you react.

This kind of situation sucks when you're in it. I'm sorry.

 

[JewelFreak]

Thank you, Haven. Use what you want, the product of hard-learned experience!

--- Laurie

 

[shihtzulover]

Thank you, everyone, for all of your honest and thoughtful advice.

He is my superior, and that's what is so weird about this situation. My supervisor has told me before that I need to be less submissive to the managers, and that I need to put more "teeth" into my emails out to them, or that they will not take me seriously. I used to tread very lightly around them, but then she criticized me for not being authoritative about my files as much. The big criticism that she gave on my first performance appraisal was that I don't speak up enough, and she made me rewrite a draft of an email to the managers because I was asking them to do things, instead of telling them that they had to do what I said.

Another odd thing is that this branch is the first one in the company to operate like this. Normally, there are only two management positions - my supervisor's, and the director's. They tried something different with us though, and made a few other team leaders. This is really a new organizational structure for this company, and since I am the auditor, I'm in an odd position. I have to audit the files and set deadlines for corrections, but the team leaders/managers are technically above me in the hierarchy. In other branches, it's not like that, because none of the team members are managers, and they would therefore all be my peers. My own supervisor has expressed her frustrations about this with me, and I know that she does not think that this structure is working out well.

I am just going to go about my job tomorrow, and hopefully things will turn around and I can make it until at least August. I know that one year here is not a very long time, and my original goal was two or (hopefully) more years, but I'm just not sure about that right now. A lot of factors come into play, and not just this job. A lot of it is the realization that this area is not as safe as we had originally thought, and also the fact that my fiancé is now doing a lot of work for a company that is close to our old city. I feel bad watching him travel there at night and then come home at 4 AM or later, only to have to work all day for his main job.

We'll see what happens.

 

[anne_h]

I agree that HR exists primarily to protect the firm's interests. Not an individual's. Although personally, our HR team is pretty nice to deal with.

I'm writing to share a story. I work in a medium-sized company run by several executives. They've all been there virtually since the company's inception. One is known to be very emotional at times. Once a few years ago, he had a major and very unexpected outburst in front of me in his office (he was giving me feedback on some of my direct reports and was very intense about it). He ended up yelling, pacing about, and turning red. Scary! lol

I was taken by complete surprise. Totally unaccustomed to emotional displays at work. At the time I was so shocked, I could only remain quiet and let him finish. However, once I left, I felt it was totally unacceptable behaviour. To me it felt like verbal abuse.

I debated my options. I could have escalated to my boss, HR or his boss.

In the end, I decided to start with him personally. I thought carefully about what I wanted to say. I decided to let him know I felt the behaviour was not okay with me and if he did it again, I would not accept it. Instead, I would excuse myself and let him know we could resume when he was calmer. I had decided I did not need to endure any kind of inappropriate behaviour. So I drew my boundaries.

So we had that chat, he accepted it, and apologized. This was several years ago. Since then, it's happened a few more times (although never nearly as bad), and each time, I go back and let him know when his behaviour creates a problem. (In the intervening years, the other executives made him attend an interpersonal skills course - several people in the company had complained about him.)

Each time I had to speak to him, I could tell he didn't like it, but he would accept it. I like to believe it made him think twice about his behaviour with me, because I know he didn't like knowing I'd always come back to speak to him when he acted badly! lol

Personally, this approach has been good for me, as it gave me confidence to know I could draw boundaries and enforce them. I realize this may not work at every workplace.

Interestingly, this person is now recently my boss. And the good news is, I am totally empowered. After having 'practiced' giving feedback and making boundaries, I am comfortable working with him. I would not have been before. I think it's going well for him too.

Anyways, just some encouragement to set your own boundaries. No need to 'cater'. I personally can't do the politics thing.

Hope this helps, and good luck!! BTW, I do believe most people will prefer you speak to them first, before escalating above or around them. That tends to make things worse. Start with them, and if there is no improvement, then you can think about other options.

Anne

PS - As usual, when having to give this kind of feedback, it's helpful to term it in "this behaviour is a problem for me because xyz" versus "you suck". Also, framing in business terms makes it much harder to defend, as in "when this happens, I can't do my work properly or it makes my work late or whatnot, etc". Who can argue with that?? lol

 

[Dreamer_D]

You have received a lot of good advice but one more thing I want to point out is that when we see patterns emerging in our interpersonal lives -- be in bad job experiences, bad relationships, fights and drama with friends -- then it becomes important to look at our own role in creating the outcomes we are experiencing. We can't control others, but when non-random patterns emerge, it is time to look at ourselves and exert some control in that area

 

[Amys Bling]

You have received a lot of good advice but one more thing I want to point out is that when we see patterns emerging in our interpersonal lives -- be in bad job experiences, bad relationships, fights and drama with friends -- then it becomes important to look at our own role in creating the outcomes we are experiencing. We can't control others, but when non-random patterns emerge, it is time to look at ourselves and exert some control in that area

So true DD. if you ate finding every job ends up like this it may have to do with communication skills- you may not even realize miscommunications that occur as you know what you mean but others rarely interpret words or actions the way you/we think they should...

 

[GlamMosher]

again, HR IS NOT YOUR FRIEND. there are may reasons for this despite the laws in place to protect employees. do not be fooled.

And as MZ said, HR is more likely to circle the wagons - with you on the outside of that circle - than to help you.

I will back up everything said by MZ & VRB above. And I wish I had known this in the last few months.

Trust me, as someone who has been through something similar, HR ARE NOT YOUR FRIEND! Even when they tell you are doing the right thing, and that they will fix things, do not necessarily believe them. Things might get fixed, but not to what you were expecting.

 

[Trekkie]

Nothing I could possibly say would come out as well as the advice you've already been given. I just want to highlight this:

I'm going to sound a bit harsh, but I think it's time someone gave you an honest opinion. Honesty is extremely rare.

IF they even talk to him, it will just be a conversation, and our director will gently tell him that he shouldn't do that, and then he will carry on some more and walk out of the office, and continue acting like this.

What exactly do you think they should do? Fire him? Get real.

I then asked why he had the file (trying to figure out how long it would be, and also, I do have the right to ask that, since it was supposed to be my possession, and I have to know where they are and if anything is being written in them), and he flew off the handle.He started raising his voice more and hollering that he wasn't going to tell me what he was doing, and he slammed the door in my face, even though I was right in front of the door and talking to him.

He's right. You are an underling, and he doesn't answer to you. Pretty simple.

Honestly, this place makes my last job look like a dream. Although things were bad there, I was never disrespected this much, and i was also a management team member there.

And the next job is going to be even worse, until you adjust your attitude. You have to wake up and smell the coffee about business: $hit rolls downhill. You are downhill. That's all there is to it.

This is the second time you've complained about a job issue. I am not sure what you expect. Are you looking for praise and appreciation? Unless you are working for your family, that's EXTREMELY rare. In the workplace, respect is earned. You need to put in a lot of time (several years) before you've earned it. I think that once you've been at a place for many years, and some new hire comes in and asks why you have a file, you might be a bit upset as well.

You suck it up, go to work on Monday, and do your job. Just as millions of other people do. Or get a new job, and expect this cycle to begin again soon.

...this:

Uhg!
Sorry you have to experience this.

Sucky job situations suck.
In all other relationships we have more power to adjust relationships or end contact with sucky people.
But when we need the money from a job it's not always that simple.
Interpersonal relationships in the workplace are complex, nuanced, and very important.

Navigating this minefield is VERY essential to not only your career, but to your happiness in the place where you will spend most of your waking life.

Frankly, what you're describing doesn't sound THAT bad.
Honestly, you sound too sensitive, in that you still expect people to be how they are "supposed" to be.
When others misbehave you take it too personally.
You lose your balance and are knocked off your bicycle.
This is more common in young people than older people who usually have more acceptance that others just don't meet our standards.

All things considered I'd say accept that while this guy sucks, getting money to live on is why you're there.
In this case I'd say buck up, and stick it out.

The way I see it, I'm being paid not just to do my job but to tolerate some amount of crap. (because here it is again, people vary, some yell and have personalities different from yours)
Anywhere you work there will be some crap, different crap, but some crap.
Try to not let it get to you.

You feel this crap crosses a line.
I recommend you just move that line in your mind and enjoy getting a paycheck.
Paychecks shouldn't be taken for granted these days.

...this:

Rule 1 in a job: Never Cry. Never. Not in front of anyone, not in the ladies' room, not anywhere. Save it till you get home. Breaking out in tears makes an employee look immature & self-indulgent. It also accomplishes zero toward solving any problem, annoys hell out of people who must deal with you.

A big lesson to be learned in early jobs is that a business-place is not like a tea party. Civility & thoughtfulness are required both places, but beyond that, different expectations apply. Your desires, needs, and comfort are no one's primary concern. You are important only according to how well you contribute to the basic goals of any business: working smoothly with colleagues, getting your work done quickly and well, essentially doing your part to add to sales & profit growth. How any single employee feels about that is immaterial; she is always welcome to go somewhere else.

The advice to talk to your supervisor about how to avoid conflict in the future is excellent. Ask & listen; don't give excuses or complain. Genuinely want to learn how to improve your own performance.

Give yourself enough time there to gain perspective. How important is it that You put the files back, or can you trust this guy to follow through? Does it matter if he doesn't remember to do it? If it must be you alone, let him know pleasantly that quitting time is approaching; phrase it as a respectful & friendly heads-up. If necessary, stay 10 or 20 minutes late to accommodate him. He'll remember.

The bottom line on succeeding -- and liking -- a job is to find out what your superiors want and give it to them. In spades. Done better & quicker than they expect. That's where your rewards & praise lie -- and your growth as an adult. In life everyone deals every day with difficult people: teachers, colleagues, in-laws, relatives, neighbors. Learn to handle it or blubbler forever.

This guy's reaction was as unprofessional as yours; I'm not excusing him. My suggestion is to try to make an admirer of him. If you know what pushes his buttons, don't do it. Give him what he asks in a pleasant & businesslike manner -- before long you'll have him on your side. Life is not a tv show where all resolves itself in an hour. The better we deal with that reality, the happier we are in the long run.

--- Laurie

...and this:

You have received a lot of good advice but one more thing I want to point out is that when we see patterns emerging in our interpersonal lives -- be in bad job experiences, bad relationships, fights and drama with friends -- then it becomes important to look at our own role in creating the outcomes we are experiencing. We can't control others, but when non-random patterns emerge, it is time to look at ourselves and exert some control in that area

And well done on taking the advice as well as you have - that really is a sign of growth and maturity!

 

[JewelFreak]

hopefully things will turn around and I can make it until at least August. I know that one year here is not a very long time, and my original goal was two or (hopefully) more years, but I'm just not sure about that right now.

Shihtzulover, instead of concentrating on "how long can I stick it out," if you put that energy toward teaching yourself techniques that will work in any job, this one will have been a good experience, no matter how long you stay. Watch those who do it well & think about how they approach colleagues. Also those who have problems: where do they go wrong? Listen (& DON"T contribute) to office gab -- gossip is junky but can be useful by showing patterns in what people say about others. Why do they admire so-&-so; what makes them scorn that one? Try out approaches you've seen work.

Nothing in our school days prepares us for behavior in a working environment. Adjusting to it can be wrenching. It has to be done if we don't want to spend life in short-term low-paying work. Or no work. Failure is not the company's fault -- it is ours if we do not pick up, in job after job, the personal skills for an adult world.

Anne H did it really well -- smart chick! Low-key self-confidence comes across. It's a learning curve. Leave emotion & drama at home; they are counterproductive & immature at work. Keep your voice timbre low, NEVER shrill; speak slowly & THINK first how it will be received; approach colleagues pleasantly, respectfully & professionally. If you need to have a discussion w/someone, figure out beforehand what you'll say -- practice it out loud a few times, that really helps. Put your head to the problem, not your heart. Remember that nobody owes you anything -- you must earn it. That's what being a grown-up is.

--- Laurie

 

[missy]

Hi shitzu, I am sorry about how you are feeling re work and you received some excellent advice in this thread especially from Laurie.

In my experience those in the highest positions are not always the more reasonable/normal individuals and some even have sociopathic tendencies. Or at the very least are narcissistic to the extreme and incredibly difficult to interact with on a regular basis. My advice would be to do your job to the best of your ability and take nothing personally. Do not engage reason into any disagreement with these type of people. They usually need to be right always no matter what. All you can do is perform your job as excellently as you can and try not to get into any disagreement with people like this.

My dh used to work for a person with sociopath tendencies who had NPD traits(seriously). My dh worked diligently and tried to limit any personal interaction with him as best as possible (difficult to do as my dh was the lead counsel and this individual was the CEO). I am just saying weigh the pros and cons of getting into a tussle with people who are difficult to reason with and just find out what it takes to do your job to the best of your ability and in the process making them happy as well. That's the only win win solution in this type of situation.

Of course, if the person in power is reasonable and approachable ignore all of the above. This only goes for those NPD/sociopathic CEO types.

 

[canuk-gal]

HI:

Your attitude--not your aptitude--will determine your altitude. I highly recommend assertiveness training.

cheers--Sharon

 

[Haven]

You have received a lot of good advice but one more thing I want to point out is that when we see patterns emerging in our interpersonal lives -- be in bad job experiences, bad relationships, fights and drama with friends -- then it becomes important to look at our own role in creating the outcomes we are experiencing. We can't control others, but when non-random patterns emerge, it is time to look at ourselves and exert some control in that area

This is so good. I'm going to try to adhere this onto a sticky note in my mind to pull it up whenever I need a reminder of this, myself.

 

[Enerchi]

please come back and tell us how it went today... I'm wondering if your supervisor had any thoughts about the episode over the weekend or if she was approached by any other managers regarding what took place on Friday.

Tell us about your day...

 

[Dreamer_D]

You have received a lot of good advice but one more thing I want to point out is that when we see patterns emerging in our interpersonal lives -- be in bad job experiences, bad relationships, fights and drama with friends -- then it becomes important to look at our own role in creating the outcomes we are experiencing. We can't control others, but when non-random patterns emerge, it is time to look at ourselves and exert some control in that area

This is so good. I'm going to try to adhere this onto a sticky note in my mind to pull it up whenever I need a reminder of this, myself.

Just make sure you Bedazzle it