Should I be quiet because I'm a houseguest?

[kenny]

No one in my father's family has ever gotten sick (and they're awful at 4-5 hours).
No one in my home has ever gotten sick.

I drove without a seatbelt once and didn't get into an accident … so I shouldn't worry bout using one. ????
(IOW, beware of arguments based on a sample size of one or even two.)

http://www.webmd.com/food-recipes/features/turkey-preparation-and-cooking-questions?page=2
SNIP
How long can you leave your Thanksgiving dinner on the table before running the risk of it spoiling?
Are there any particular items you should be concerned about?

You have two hours from the time you take your food out of the oven until it needs to be refrigerated.
In particular, make sure you refrigerate the turkey, stuffing, gravy, anything with milk and anything with eggs, and rice.
Basically, anything with a little bit of protein in it can become hazardous if left out too long.

 

[Maria D]

Kenny, please see what you can do about getting on my mom's guest list for Thanksgiving next year.

The woman's house is freakin' FREEZING! She sets the thermostat at 62. And refrigerating leftovers? You can't even get seconds in because everything is put away so fast. The woman is like a CDC certified robot when it comes to safe cooking/serving practices. Actually, this is the reason she's not cold in her house - she's running around constantly cooking & cleaning! The rest of us are sitting there with our teeth chattering. You can't help because she shoos you away.

And then the overnight stay - did I mention freezing?? The programmable thermostats go down to 55 degrees at night. Not to make light of your situation, but it was the exact opposite of mine. What makes it bearable for my husband is the fact that we can laugh about it (behind mom's back) together, which you don't seem to be able to do with your SO

I really don't think it matters what the actual temperature in your SO's family's house is. Whatever the number, they are comfortable, so what're you gonna do? And even though you are technically right about safe food practice, the fact is that they've been doing what they're doing for a long time and no one has gotten sick. Telling them to do it differently is just going to come off as pointless nagging. It's like how I tell my daughter EVERY time she eats cookie dough that she shouldn't because: raw eggs. And she says, you ALWAYS say that and I ALWAYS eat it anyway and NOTHING ever happens.

Even my mother wasn't as meticulous with food prep/serving 40 years ago when I was a kid. It's only been in the last couple of decades since 24/7 TV and internet with constant reminders about these things. 40 years ago she left her roast on the table a lot longer - and no one ever got sick...

 

[dk168]

I stick with the 4-hour rule, in that it will take a dormant bacterium about 4 hours to realise it is in a suitable environment to live and multiply.

This is what I was informed by my microbiologist-colleagues many years ago, and it has served me well so far.

DK

 

[diamondseeker2006]

If I visited the freezing home, I'd just bring a little portable electric heater for my room! I wouldn't be able to stand it too hot or too cold!

Kenny, I think all those warnings are very much on the overly cautious side. Most people with big family gatherings are going to have the food out for longer than 2 hours. The turkey might come out of the oven and hour before the meal while everything else is getting ready and the turkey is carved. Then people might sit at the table an hour or much longer if they continue to sit and talk. In fact, my MIL often just put lids or foil over the food and left some of it out until later in the evening when people would eat some leftovers. I've been around a long time, and never have I heard of anyone getting sick. I, personally, would not leave food out for 5 hours, but it seems that it would have to be unusual circumstances, like outdoors in 90 degree heat or something, for the food to really spoil that fast. Of course, maybe their temp IS 90 degrees in the house, so perhaps you should be concerned!

(I also use Stevia, brand name Truvia, except I buy walmart brand. It is in green packets. )

 

[kenny]

Thanks all …..

Here's another thing that came up.

In their home/family women do ALL the housework/cooking/cleaning and the men like it that way.
I offer to help cook and wash dishes.
The gals loved it but I got hassled by the husbands.
They told me I make them look bad.
Clearly they are worried I'll plant ideas in their ladies' heads which will spoil their comfy status quo.

So my question is, should I do it my way, which means helping out?
Or should I do it their way and waddle my fat @ss into onto the living room couch after eating?
Serious question.

Maybe being a good guest means following the host family's protocol, even when I find it unfair and even offensive.

 

[Gypsy]

Thanks all …..

Here's another thing that came up.

In their home/family women do ALL the housework/cooking/cleaning and the men like it that way.
I offer to help cook and wash dishes.
The gals loved it but I got hassled by the husbands.
They told me I make them look bad.
Clearly they are worried I'll plant ideas in their ladies' heads which will spoil their comfy status quo.

So my question is, should I do it my way, which means helping out?
Or should I do it their way and waddle my fat @ss into onto the living room couch after eating?
Serious question.

Maybe being a good guest means following the host family's protocol, even when I find it unfair and even offensive.

Kenny. You are a grown man.

So the idiots heckle you. Big deal. You do what you think is right. Which is helping out with the house work.

Just ignore the heckling. If they say you are making them look bad, just look at them and smile.

If they push the issue, just tell them how they look is not your problem.

 

[TooPatient]

Thanks all …..

Here's another thing that came up.

In their home/family women do ALL the housework/cooking/cleaning and the men like it that way.
I offer to help cook and wash dishes.
The gals loved it but I got hassled by the husbands.
They told me I make them look bad.
Clearly they are worried I'll plant ideas in their ladies' heads which will spoil their comfy status quo.

So my question is, should I do it my way, which means helping out?
Or should I do it their way and waddle my fat @ss into onto the living room couch after eating?
Serious question.

Maybe being a good guest means following the host family's protocol, even when I find it unfair and even offensive.

Yep!

My family is/was very much like that -- women home cooking & cleaning with men out smoking/drinking/playing/tv until the women put food onto plates and served them then did all the clean up while the men went back to fun.
Guess what changed? My DH showed up! He helped with cooking & clean-up without being asked. He even (gasp!) put food onto his own plate -- you should have heard the comments I had to put up with!
The other big change was my grandmother isn't able to do as much any more so my grandfather started doing lots.

If I'd tried to explain it to them, they wouldn't have gotten it. In fact there are STILL women in my family who carefully put together a plate for their husbands and take it in to them so they don't have to leave the TV They are proud of this!

So my suggestion would be to help out but don't make a big deal of it. Ignore the comments or find something polite to respond with ("Extra help makes cleanup quicker ")
Things will evolve from there!

 

[movie zombie]

Kenny. You are a grown man.

So the idiots heckle you. Big deal. You do what you think is right. Which is helping out with the house work.

Just ignore the heckling. If they say you are making them look bad, just look at them and smile.

If they push the issue, just tell them how they look is not your problem.

good grief: gypsy is in my head again!

yes, Kenny, just go into the kitchen and start washing dishes. if the guys have a problem with it, well, it is their problem. smile and say you really love hanging out with the women which will just blow their minds!

 

[gem_anemone]

Thanks all …..

Here's another thing that came up.

In their home/family women do ALL the housework/cooking/cleaning and the men like it that way.
I offer to help cook and wash dishes.
The gals loved it but I got hassled by the husbands.
They told me I make them look bad.
Clearly they are worried I'll plant ideas in their ladies' heads which will spoil their comfy status quo.

So my question is, should I do it my way, which means helping out?
Or should I do it their way and waddle my fat @ss into onto the living room couch after eating?
Serious question.

Maybe being a good guest means following the host family's protocol, even when I find it unfair and even offensive.

This is a good one! I vote stick up for the ladies and help. We had Thanksgiving at my house and hosted my husband's family. At my husband's family gatherings the women do the cooking and cleanup and the men watch TV. However, in my house my husband does housework/cooking/cleaning too...not just me. After Thanksgiving dinner this year my husband's 70 something grandmother shouted for the ladies to help out in the kitchen. I made it known to all that in our house men do clean up too...loud enough for all the men to hear. I was disappointed that none of them including DH (GRR!!) lifted a finger and also that sis-in-law sat with the guys didn't help either! And I am 6 months pregnant! Oh well... at least it got done and not all by me. Even if it is unfair, those of us who find it offensive that men don't help with housework can't change a lifetime of a way of thinking overnight. We will just have to break them down slowly. DH better get his butt in there next year and help.

 

[iLander]

If the situation were reversed and I was at someone's house and all the men were cleaning up, and the women were watching football, I'd go watch football. I'm a houseguest, I'm not there to change anyone's world view.

It's like that very polite woman (I want to say Brook Astor) that watched a guest drink out of a finger bowl. She didn't correct the guest, or even raise an eyebrow. She drank from her own finger bowl and acted like it was nothing.

Back to the heat, though. Doesn't that add a ton of money to the electric bill? I would think so . . . Maybe the thermostat is broken? But they are from a very warm climate, no? I'm amazed when I see Mexicans sporting long sleeves in 100+ degrees outside. They seem completely comfortable, while I'm sweating buckets.

 

[kenny]

If the situation were reversed and I was at someone's house and all the men were cleaning up, and the women were watching football, I'd go watch football. I'm a houseguest, I'm not there to change anyone's world view.

Valid point!
That's exactly why I'm conflicted about this.

But where does one draw the line?
For instance, should I respect the ban on women driving cars in Saudi Arabia out of respect for their culture?
When do you give up when you see wrongdoing?
… Not that I can do much about SA, but I can choose to respect it as part of diversity, or oppose the ban as unfair.

 

[zoebartlett]

I think it's nice to help out (or at least to offer) if you're a house guest. Your in-laws could always say no if they choose, but I bet they appreciate the thought. I wouldn't worry about being teased by the guys. If you're used to helping and would prefer to do so, I think that's great.

 

[iLander]

If the situation were reversed and I was at someone's house and all the men were cleaning up, and the women were watching football, I'd go watch football. I'm a houseguest, I'm not there to change anyone's world view.

Valid point!
That's exactly why I'm conflicted about this.

But where does one draw the line?
For instance, should I respect the ban on women driving cars in Saudi Arabia out of respect for their culture?
When do you give up when you see wrongdoing? (Not that I can do much about SA, but I can choose to respect it as part of diversity, or oppose it as unfair.

I think I would draw the line at how much it hurts the "victim". If it's sitting watching football, and they're just doing dishes, I'd let it go. But if someone were hitting a child, I would have to step in.

I'm not sure I can do much about Saudi Arabia, but there are women's groups over there that are trying to change the driving rules, and I guess I would support them with a small donation if I felt strongly about it.

Pick your battles.

 

[iheartscience]

Yuck on the leftovers...I'd do what you already do and skip them the next day. I have one relative who is also terrible with food safety
(my parents and siblings have gotten ill on more than one occasion from eating this person's cooking), so we never eat at this person's house and we try to avoid eating anything they bring when we have her over. We'll take portions of it and push it around on our plate if we have to, or if it's dessert we'll "save it for later since we're SO STUFFED."

 

[AGBF]

But where does one draw the line?
For instance, should I respect the ban on women driving cars in Saudi Arabia out of respect for their culture?
When do you give up when you see wrongdoing?

… Not that I can do much about SA, but I can choose to respect it as part of diversity, or oppose the ban as unfair.

You can oppose the ban from here as much as you want, I suppose, and for any reason you like but you had better respect it if you are in Saudi Arabia since it is a sovereign nation. Otherwise there will be negative consequences for you there.

I do not respect the ban on women driving because of the Saudi culture; I deplore the ban. You can bet your derriere I would respect the ban and every other cultural rule and law if I ever found myself in Saudi Arabia, however! But my preference is to say out of Saudi Arabia.

AGBF

 

[ericad]

Ugh, Kenny, I feel your pain! My MIL is a heat-freak. I refuse to ever visit in the winter because the one time we did, she nearly boiled us alive with the room heaters all cranked up to the max. She lives in France and retired from the power company and gets free electricity as one of her retirement benefits. And let me tell you, she uses it! Any other time of year and her house is perfectly pleasant, but in the winter it's a sauna.

I just went around and turned the heaters down behind her back, which was probably not the best way to handle it, but I was literally having to step outside into the freezing cold every hour just to escape the unbearable sweltering heat. And opening our bedroom window wasn't an option because she has no window screens and we would get too many bugs in during the night.

After turning the heaters down, I would just pretend not to understand her when she asked who kept turning down the heat (the language barrier comes in handy). Again, not my proudest moment, but after doing this little dance for a few days, DH finally figured out that he was going to have to choose sides between his mom and his now withered raisin of a wife. After that, MIL kept the heaters set at a level compatible with human life, but she wore a heavy coat in the house, all day long, lol. And it's not like the house was cold - we compromised at, like, 72 degrees. Her default temperature had to have been 80+.

Fun story: The following year, when she visited us, DH told her how much I hate, loathe and despise beets. Truly - I wish they'd go extinct (along with olives, which are the second most repulsive food on earth). I don't know how it came up in conversation, but I know he told her that I detest them. Shortly thereafter, while I was working from home (DH was at work, so she and I were alone) I heard her puttering around the kitchen for HOURS. Pots were simmering, and she was preparing the most delicious vinaigrette (she's a terrific cook). With nothing but love and affection oozing out of every pore, she presented me with a home cooked lunch that she made just for me - it was the most beautifully executed BEET SALAD I've ever seen. It was magazine-worthy. And I smiled and ate every last bite of it out of spite. Touche, MIL, touche. Nicely played. When the heck did she buy fresh beets without me noticing?! No clue - it's just part of the unique mystery that is my MIL.

In-law relationships can be really difficult, but at the end of the day you are their guest so I think that your comfort supersedes that of the host (within reason). I know that when people stay with us, I always want them to be comfortable, even at the expense of my own comfort. So I would say that you should speak up once, let her and your partner know that you're uncomfortably hot despite the reading on the t-stat, and give her the opportunity to make you comfortable. If she doesn't, then you're left to suffer in silence, but were I in your shoes, I'd let my partner know (after the trip) that the heat was unbearable and that I won't be visiting again in the winter time.

As for the leftovers, I'm pretty loose about leaving food out. Not in a gross way, but I don't think there's any harm in leaving a freshly cooked meal out for a few hours before packing it away, depending on what it is. But if you're nervous about it, you for sure shouldn't eat it. It's not worth the risk of getting sick.

As for the post holiday roles of the men versus the women, I'm more "free to be you and me" than "when in Rome" in this situation - meaning that if you're the type to pitch in, then continue to do so. Everyone else will get over it. It's a NICE thing to do - if it makes the other guys feel that they look bad, just say "you're welcome" for showing them the path towards self awareness and personal growth.

 

[JewelFreak]

It's like that very polite woman (I want to say Brook Astor) that watched a guest drink out of a finger bowl. She didn't correct the guest, or even raise an eyebrow. She drank from her own finger bowl and acted like it was nothing.

That was Edward VII, iLander. State banquet for the head honcho of one of Britain's colonies, who had never been presented w/finger bowls before.

I hate, loathe and despise beets. Truly - I wish they'd go extinct

AHAHA, Erica! I agree a MILLION percent! Beets should be against the law! So should ginger. Yack!


Kenny, I'd go ahead & help if it makes you more comfortable -- unless you feel a freeze-out from the ladies too. You're sensitive enough to tell if they're grateful or if they'd rather not have males "in their way." Honestly, I don't think they'll remember whether you did or didn't -- and the men get on your case because they feel guilty, so ignore them.

--- Laurie

 

[iheartscience]

Fun story: The following year, when she visited us, DH told her how much I hate, loathe and despise beets. Truly - I wish they'd go extinct (along with olives, which are the second most repulsive food on earth). I don't know how it came up in conversation, but I know he told her that I detest them. Shortly thereafter, while I was working from home (DH was at work, so she and I were alone) I heard her puttering around the kitchen for HOURS. Pots were simmering, and she was preparing the most delicious vinaigrette (she's a terrific cook). With nothing but love and affection oozing out of every pore, she presented me with a home cooked lunch that she made just for me - it was the most beautifully executed BEET SALAD I've ever seen. It was magazine-worthy. And I smiled and ate every last bite of it out of spite. Touche, MIL, touche. Nicely played. When the heck did she buy fresh beets without me noticing?! No clue - it's just part of the unique mystery that is my MIL.

This is HILARIOUS. I would have done the same thing: "YUM I LOVE BEETS HOW DID YOU KNOW?! You know what could only improve this? OLIVES."

P.S. I also hate olives, they're disgusting. I'm okay with beets as long as everyone can acknowledge that they pretty much taste like dirt.

 

[VRBeauty]

In-law relationships can be really difficult, but at the end of the day you are their guest so I think that your comfort supersedes that of the host (within reason). I know that when people stay with us, I always want them to be comfortable, even at the expense of my own comfort. So I would say that you should speak up once, let her and your partner know that you're uncomfortably hot despite the reading on the t-stat, and give her the opportunity to make you comfortable. If she doesn't, then you're left to suffer in silence, but were I in your shoes, I'd let my partner know (after the trip) that the heat was unbearable and that I won't be visiting again in the winter time.

Kenny is visiting as family, and in my experience, family visiting family operate by different "rules" than non-family guests. My family usually gathers at my parents' house because they have the largest house and now, because we can travel without issue and my parents cannot. In other words, we're not so much there because our parents graciously invited us, we're there because we're using their house as a gathering place. So we don't expect our comfort to trump that of our parents (even though they are, technically, our "hosts") any more than we expect to be waited on.

 

[ericad]

I guess it depends on one's definition of "guest." My brother and his partner only visit us once every year or two (or vice versa, when we visit them). So even though they're family, they're still guests and I put their comfort above my own (within reason, of course). When my parents, who are local and see us several times a week, come to visit, I still treat them with courtesy and make sure they're comfortable. Same when I go to their house - they tend to keep the house on the cold side and always ask if I want them to turn up the heat when we're visiting. I think we should be gracious when people visit us, whether they're family or not.

I'm not suggesting that people who are visiting have a right to be waited on or to be demanding in any way. But I would think that Kenny's MIL would feel badly if she knew that Kenny was boiling alive at her house and didn't say anything. Surely a compromise can be made in most situations so that everyone is reasonably comfortable. And if his request is ignored, then I say let it go - but I think it's ok to say something once, in the hope of fixing the problem. To me that's just part of having visitors and getting along. But then, I've never been a "my way or the highway" type of person. Like Kenny says, people vary!

 

[CJ2008]

This is HILARIOUS. I would have done the same thing: "YUM I LOVE BEETS HOW DID YOU KNOW?! You know what could only improve this? OLIVES."

P.S. I also hate olives, they're disgusting. I'm okay with beets as long as everyone can acknowledge that they pretty much taste like dirt.

I tend to agree with ericad - in my opinion it is ALWAYS OK to ask/say what's on your mind as long as you are 1. tactful and 2. OK with the fact that they may ignore the request. I don't think the host HAS to turn their house upside down to accommodate me but I do think that most hosts would want to know if their guest is uncomfortable for any reason. I know I would want to know. Maybe I won't do exactly what they ask for (say, turn the heat down) - but I'd buy a fan, or see if there's another room in the house that may be less hot, etc. It gives me a chance to fix it if I want to.