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Should I be alarmed?

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Class n Sass

Shiny_Rock
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OK so I posted a couple of days ago about the GIA certficate problem. My fiance recieved the report in the mail today. I verified it on the GIA website by using the report number. When we read the report on the copy he recieved today and online it said the cut grade was Good. Now my fiance specifically remembers the jeweler telling him it was an Ideal cut; however, GIA doesn''t use Ideal as one of their grades. It goes Excellent, Very Good, Good, Fair, Poor. This is part of the reason I wanted to be more involved in the purchase because I would have picked up on this
. Should I be concerned by this?

Now I''m not exactly sure how much he paid for the stone and I don''t really want to ask him that right now but can you please share your thoughts on these specs? What do you think a stone like this is worth. It was bought in the NY Diamond District.

Measurements: 6.16-6.19x3.70mm
Carat Weight: 0.86
Color Grade: G
Clarity Grade: VS2
Cut Grade: Good

Depth: 59.9%
Table 56%
Crown Angle: 34 degrees
Crown Height: 14.5%
Pavillion Angle: 40.2 degrees
Pavillion Depth: 42%
Star Length: 55%
Lower Half: 85%
Girdle: Thin to Medium, Faceted
Cutlet: None

Polish: Very Good
Symmetry: Very Good
Flourescence: None
Clarity Characteristics: Crystal , Cloud

Not really sure what Clarity Characteristics entails...please explain.

Thank You
 

JulieN

Super_Ideal_Rock
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It is a Good cut because the pavilion angle is too shallow for the crown angle under GIA's parameters.

Clarity characteristics means that a cloud and a crystal were the grade makers.
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Very interesting. I put the numbers in the Holloway Cut advisor and it got a score of 1, vg, ex, ex, ex, even though the x doesn''t fall anywhere near the AGS0 or GIA excellent boxes. Go figure? I wouldn''t buy a stone with GIA "good" cut based on the paper alone, but this score on the HCA makes me scratch my head. If the stone looks beautiful to you, then great! The color and clarity are very nice.

For price comparison, I found a G VS2 at .80 for $2900 and a .90 at $4400. So your stone should fall between those in price, I imagine.
 

Class n Sass

Shiny_Rock
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Diamond Seeker,

Are you scrathching your head because the stone doesn''t sound right to you? Does the scale prove that it''s worse than the specs say?
 

pyramid

Ideal_Rock
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I think it may be the lower girdle half length of 85% which is putting the grade down to good. On the GIA charts the pavillion angle and crown angle given would be graded Very Good however lower girdle halves should be at 80%.
 

JulieN

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Wow, you''re right. 80% would give it a VG.
 

Class n Sass

Shiny_Rock
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Jan 14, 2007
Messages
306
OK I''m feeling better about this. The stone really does look beautiful but I''m a bit of a detail freak so I wanted to check with the diamond experts that I know you all are
How did you discover that an 80% would give it a VG grade? Is there a chart I should be looking at for this?
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Date: 2/27/2007 5:04:13 PM
Author: Class n Sass
Diamond Seeker,

Are you scrathching your head because the stone doesn''t sound right to you? Does the scale prove that it''s worse than the specs say?
No, I am puzzled that it is graded "good" by GIA but scores very well on the cut tool here. But I guess I am even more puzzled that it scores so well on the cut tool, yet it falls pretty far from AGS0 and GIA Ex marks on that graph. It just makes you wonder what cut grades to trust.

I just say, enjoy your diamond, put the cert away in a safeplace, and forget the numbers. You may lose your mind otherwise!
 

JulieN

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Played around with Facetware.

Stones this shallow usually have lots of head shadow, so check that it's not dark when viewed closely, or if you think it looks better when viewed far away.

Also I'd def go to Tiff or a place that has EightStars or HOF, or some other place that should carry near Tolkowsky stones and see if you prefer those.

It gets a good score on HCA and it falls under pendants and earrings stones.
 

Beacon

Ideal_Rock
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Jul 14, 2006
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2,037
On the GIA website, there is a tool that will estimate a cut grade. If you input all the cert info you will get the cut result.

It looks like some folks here played with the parameters and found that the stone would have gotten a very good cut if the lower girdle facets were at 80 instead of 85.

The Holloway cut advisor gives your stone a very top grade. That is why people are slightly confused.

Bottom line: if you cannot return this stone, just enjoy it, as you said it looks nice. If you can return it, go and see how it compares to true "ideal" cut stones. If there is a difference to your eyes, you have your answer.

Hopefully the price reflected the cut grade. "Good" is not a very good grade and such a stone should be priced accordingly. It does not mean it is a bad stone though.
 

Class n Sass

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jan 14, 2007
Messages
306
Good advice...we are going to have it appraised again to get an unbiased opinion. It was only appraised by the jeweler he purchased it from which I don''t agree with. I want to get that done this weekend so if it needs to be returned it can be done immediately. I know it can be returned but I am not sure of the exact return policy. Please keep the advice/suggestions/thoughts coming
 

pyramid

Ideal_Rock
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below the chart it is stating the default parameter of 80% for Lower Girdle Halves

http://www.diamondcut.gia.edu/charts/index.cfm?axis=00_table



_________________________

This is the estimator, when you put in all your information but with the 80% it reads as Very Good but when you change it to your correct information which is the 85% it changes the reading to Good.


http://facetware.gia.edu/



However as a previous poster stated there has been some talk here on the new GIA cut grades and many posters here prefer AGS certificates with their cut grade. It is only recently GIA has put cut grades on certificates. Although GIA is the industry standard when it comes to Laboratories.
 

kcoursolle

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 21, 2006
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10,589
The specs aren''t super super tight, but it should be a lovely stone still probably cut better than most out there. Forget all the the labels...go by numbers and appearance.
 

Class n Sass

Shiny_Rock
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Jan 14, 2007
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This could be a silly question to some of you. But what percentage would indicate that the stone is cut niether too deep or too shallow? JulieN is saying its a shallow stone.
 

Ellen

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 13, 2006
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Date: 2/28/2007 6:23:11 AM
Author: Class n Sass
This could be a silly question to some of you. But what percentage would indicate that the stone is cut niether too deep or too shallow? JulieN is saying its a shallow stone.
No silly question.


The crown and pavillion angles need to work together to make a diamond with great light return.

There are LOTS of combinations that work, some work better than others.

Take your 34 crown angle, I have the same one on my stone, but, it's paired with a 41 PA. If you have a shallower CA, you need a deeper PA. But not just 41 would work, so would 40.9, 40.8, 40.7, maybe even 40.6....Also depends on how well/tight the stone is cut.

On your PA, which is pretty shallow, you'd want your CA in the over 35 area, but not sure if it would still work great. It's pretty shallow, but obviously works somewhat.

Your stone is what we'd call a shallow/shallow, meaning shallow crown and pavillion angles. It may work, but not as well as other combos.

Hope this helped, if not, ask away.
 
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