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Possible to have HCA 0.8 and GIA cut VG?!

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blingergrrrl

Brilliant_Rock
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Feb 1, 2007
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539
Found a diamond that has a GIA cert saying it has a VG cut (by cut I don't mean symmetry or polish), that scores Excellent's across the board on the HCA. Is this possible, and is this a good deal? The site is selling it as a VG cut, and not under their Ideal cuts.

For example:
From the GIA cert scan:
0.96ct G SI1
Cut: VG
Polish: EX
Sym: VG
Flour: None

Depth: 60.3%
Table: 57%
Crown Angle: 35.5
Pavilion Angle: 40.2
Girdle: thin to medium

Gives a HCA of 0.8!!

Price (USD): $4,138
Bank wire price (USD): $4,076
 

lumpkin

Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 24, 2005
Messages
2,491
Yes, it''s possible. My diamond scored a 1.4 and only got a very good GIA cut. Have you seen the diamond you''re looking at getting? I''m not really sure why it only got a VG, but if it gets a .8 HCA score, I would definitely want to see it and evaluate it with my eyes. You may have an exceptionally brilliant diamond on your hands.
 

blingergrrrl

Brilliant_Rock
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539
Sorry, I misquoted the price:

Price: $4,210

I have found a couple of other VG's on this site that score under 2 on the HCA...hmmm...Does this happen a lot? And I won't be able to see the diamond unless I order it but the site has a 30-day return policy.
 

blingergrrrl

Brilliant_Rock
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Messages
539
omg, I am getting excited!!! Should I be scared off my this plot at all? It IS a SI1 but they don''t offer a pic at all (or ideal scope either...
).

GIA_zoom.jpg
 

lumpkin

Ideal_Rock
Joined
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Messages
2,491
I think the plot is fine. I don''t know what site you are looking to buy from, but they should be able to tell you if it''s eye clean from 12" or so. Also, if all the inclusions are white (not black carbon) they should be able to tell you that, too. However, I also have an SI-1 and I looked and looked for carbon, couldn''t find any. The other day I was cleaning my ring, couldn''t get the table clean and looked at it with a 30 power loupe (of my husbands for something totally not related to diamonds) and found a tiny carbon spot. I''ve had the diamond for several months now, and I only just found it. So if they say there''s carbon, don''t necessarily count it out. Have them tell you where it is and then look at it to find it.

Sounds like you have a winner. If Garry has blessed it (after all, he is the Cut Nut and deals diamonds down in Australia and came up with the HCA) and you are excited about it, have them send it to you to look at! It sounds fantastic. How exciting!
 

blingergrrrl

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Feb 1, 2007
Messages
539
The X is where is appears on the HCA...outside both GIA and AGS. :) no premiums!

diamondblinger.jpg
 

blingergrrrl

Brilliant_Rock
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Feb 1, 2007
Messages
539
Oh thank you Garry and Lumpkin...I am really excited. I have to pass on the info to my significant other tomorrow...Oh how I wish I could wake him up right now! I will contact the site and ask about the inclusions.
 

E B

Ideal_Rock
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Aug 31, 2005
Messages
9,488
blinger,

My stone got a VG/VG (polish and symmetry) from GIA with their "Excellent Cut" rating, and scores a 1 on the HCA.

It's a fabulous stone. Seriously. It throws off so many colors in daylight and even weirdly enough, in low light (I'm talking a lot of fire).

I'd go for it.

ETA: Oh, I see you meant "VG cut" rating. I wouldn't worry...it sounds like it could be a great stone. Let your eyes be the judge, and make sure whichever vendor you're buying from has a return policy *just in case*.
 

tanalasta

Shiny_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 28, 2006
Messages
323
According to the inverse relationship, the slightly shallow pavillion angle of 40.2 is made up for by the crown angle 35.5. The rest of the numbers look nice and you''ve also managed to save money by not buying over the 1.00Ct mark where prices take a hike. I''d bet the spread is pretty good on that stone too so it''ll look like a 1Ct stone.

Well, if it''s eye clean and Garry likes it then I''d say at least have a look at it! And ask for an idealscope image :razz:
 

E B

Ideal_Rock
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Date: 2/6/2007 4:51:34 AM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
most HCA 1.0''s are outside the gIA Ex proportions
So does this mean that it isn''t (or shouldn''t be) a GIA Excellent Cut, or a 1.0 on the HCA? I''m confused.
 

blingergrrrl

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
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Messages
539
Date: 2/6/2007 1:16:12 PM
Author: EBree

Date: 2/6/2007 4:51:34 AM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
most HCA 1.0''s are outside the gIA Ex proportions
So does this mean that it isn''t (or shouldn''t be) a GIA Excellent Cut, or a 1.0 on the HCA? I''m confused.
I believe what Garry is saying is that all diamonds that score 1.0 are not necessarily GIA EX cuts, and that most aren''t.
 

E B

Ideal_Rock
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Date: 2/6/2007 1:41:21 PM
Author: blingergrrrl
Date: 2/6/2007 1:16:12 PM

Author: EBree


Date: 2/6/2007 4:51:34 AM

Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

most HCA 1.0''s are outside the gIA Ex proportions

So does this mean that it isn''t (or shouldn''t be) a GIA Excellent Cut, or a 1.0 on the HCA? I''m confused.
I believe what Garry is saying is that all diamonds that score 1.0 are not necessarily GIA EX cuts, and that most aren''t.
Oh, okay.
 

blingergrrrl

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Feb 1, 2007
Messages
539
Well turns out this "brilliant" stone is covered in clouds...yucky...what a disappointment.


Hey, EBree, for fun can I see your HCA chart (where your diamond scores on the color chart?)
 

lumpkin

Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 24, 2005
Messages
2,491
Oh, total bummer. Did they tell you or did you have it sent to you?

Well, time to find another....
 

Garry H (Cut Nut)

Super_Ideal_Rock
Trade
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Messages
15,203
the plot did look rather clean - it is always a problem when there are few decent sized inclusions in a stone - everyone thinks these are the best stones - but they get the grade they get for good reasons.

I am never happy when consumer people try to out guess the graders.

Clouds even in an sI1 can dull the stone
 

blingergrrrl

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Feb 1, 2007
Messages
539
They told me...It had a comment on the cert about clouds but I only found out later that if there''s a comment stating that the clarity grading is based on the clouds = bad. If it only comments that clouds are not shown = not a big issue. Argh. Well, I''m learning.
It seemed like it would of been a nice stone tho.
 

blingergrrrl

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Feb 1, 2007
Messages
539
Date: 2/6/2007 8:28:06 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
the plot did look rather clean - it is always a problem when there are few decent sized inclusions in a stone - everyone thinks these are the best stones - but they get the grade they get for good reasons.

I am never happy when consumer people try to out guess the graders.

Clouds even in an sI1 can dull the stone
Yeah, I was just thinking that. So...I guess I should bite the bullet and go for the VS2 and up, eh?
 

E B

Ideal_Rock
Joined
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Messages
9,488
Date: 2/6/2007 8:21:38 PM
Author: blingergrrrl
Well turns out this ''brilliant'' stone is covered in clouds...yucky...what a disappointment.



Hey, EBree, for fun can I see your HCA chart (where your diamond scores on the color chart?)

I''m sorry! What a bummer.

Oddly enough, I just calculated my stone''s HCA (based on my GIA cert) and it''s a 0.9 on the HCA. I have no idea where I got 1 from.

Here''s the chart:

ebreeHCA.jpg
 

E B

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 31, 2005
Messages
9,488
Oops! Where'd the x go?

Well, on the website, the x is actually in both boxes. It's sitting on the first lower step in the solid white box.

I'll see if I can print screen and post the actual chart!

ETA: I see where I was mixed up. The depth on the sarin WF gave me is different from the depth on my GIA cert. Hmmm.
 

Garry H (Cut Nut)

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Date: 2/6/2007 8:34:55 PM
Author: blingergrrrl

Date: 2/6/2007 8:28:06 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
the plot did look rather clean - it is always a problem when there are few decent sized inclusions in a stone - everyone thinks these are the best stones - but they get the grade they get for good reasons.

I am never happy when consumer people try to out guess the graders.

Clouds even in an sI1 can dull the stone
Yeah, I was just thinking that. So...I guess I should bite the bullet and go for the VS2 and up, eh?
I have no problem with SI 1 or SI2 Bgl.

It is only when the clouds make the grade.

I get upset when consumers want to find SI diamonds with inclusions that are hard to find even with a loupe - these stones are the cluody ones and they outsmart themselves
 

blingergrrrl

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Feb 1, 2007
Messages
539
Hmm, I think I am just going to do what you did, and find a stone that fits within GIA EX, AGS IDEAL, and below 2.0 on the HCA and be done with it!! How long did it take you to find your stone?

BTW, your rock (and ring) are gorgeous! You stated yours was a SI1 but I can't see ANY inclusions! Very pretty...and did you decide on a band yet?

ETA: this was posted before I read Garry's post above...so yeah, I was directing this at EBee! :)
 

E B

Ideal_Rock
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Aug 31, 2005
Messages
9,488
Date: 2/6/2007 10:52:52 PM
Author: blingergrrrl
Hmm, I think I am just going to do what you did, and find a stone that fits within GIA EX, AGS IDEAL, and below 2.0 on the HCA and be done with it!! How long did it take you to find your stone?


BTW, your rock (and ring) are gorgeous! You stated yours was a SI1 but I can't see ANY inclusions! Very pretty...and did you decide on a band yet?
You talkin' to me?
If so, thank you very much!

Searching for my diamond was actually a bit frustrating. I kept trying to find eye-clean SI2s and struck out every time. H&A stones (and even WF's "Expert Selection" stones) were out of our budget. I knew what I wanted, and whenever I tried to find it on my own, whatever I'd find would be a dud.

I was in a bit of a hurry to get the stone (I was going home for Christmas and wanted to have the completed ring to show my family) so I just told WF what I was looking for and what our budget was, and hoped they'd find something. My rep quickly found 4 possible stones and recommended one above all the others. Apparently, they were new stones WF had just received (if memory serves). I saw the pictures, sarin report, plugged the numbers into the HCA, was assured that it was eye-clean AND beautiful, and the rest is history.

From the first search to my giving the specs to my rep, it probably took me about a month to find 'the stone'. That might be soon to some, but I was in a hurry. However, if I hadn't found a great stone within budget, I wouldn't have settled.

If I were you, I'd contact whichever vendor you feel the most comfortable with and tell them what you're looking for (color, clarity, cut, HCA score, budget). See what they can come up with. Since you're looking for a balance, like I was, let 'em know that symmetry and polish can be VG/VG as long as it's an excellent cut.

Regarding the band, I think I'm going to get an Etienne Perret starlight band. It's the only band I've seen thus far that I like not only with my e-ring, but alone. They're breathtaking in person.

In conclusion...good luck to you! I hope you find your perfect stone. When you do, be sure to post tons of pictures. Do you have a setting in mind?
 
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