Shane Company BAD!!!

[GD]

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 12/7/2004 11:49:26 AM
Author: JohnQuixote
Garry, is this another infamous stone from your ''Canadian company/brand'' of last month?

As we all know, there are AGS0 diamonds with poor IdealScope images. However, in the words of the illustrious Rhino, who has arguably performed more hands-on analysis of varying levels of standards in H&A stones than any of us, ''Don''t show me a diamond ... tell me it has 34.5 crown angles, 40.7 pavilion angles, 56 table then show me an IS Image akin to this ....''

Show me a Sarin/grading report on that diamond and I can perhaps tell you why it didn''t get great IS results... For that matter, diamonds with not-so-good IS images can perform well. I''m not insinuating your example does - but I''d need to see the stone to tell you.

Ana - True patterning is a matter of aligning the mirrors. Show me a stone with my my idea of ''sweet'' proportions and true patterning and you will get fireworks every time.

We visited this subject last month when Garry issued his last PSA for H&A in this thread.

...And since this is quite off-topic from our friends discussing Shane, I suggest further wrangling on this sidebar take place there, mm-kay?

There is nothing to discuss John.
We have discussed this stone before - it is the cheated girdle stone from the third example of symmetry deviations (girdle indexing cheating whatever) http://www.gemology.ru/cut/english/symmetry/6.htm

It is a simple point - there are dead H&A''s.
There are dead Ideal-Scope diamonds with clouds too.
OK
You can all get back on topic
Sorry for the brief interlude

 

[perry]

GD

Welcome to the forum. Please be advised that individual threads can go askew, and it appears that this one did.

My standard advice to new people is to read the tutorial, study the diamonds available at some of the Pricescope Vendors (Good Old Gold, NiceIce, Superbcert, Whiteflash, etc, ect) and learn to use the diamond search tool and the HCA advisor.

And check out a few threads that seem interesting. Feel free to respond where you want to - this is an open forum.

If you are really interested in learning something about diamonds and jewelry hang arround for a month of two following a few threads per day. My personal experience was that in 24 hours on the web that I knew more about diamonds than most jewelery store sales people. Please be advised that I have looked at diamonds in about a dozen stores, and perhaps looked at a hundred diamonds total. So I have some idea what they actually look like.

Please be advised that there is also the capability to send a Personal Message (PM) to any of us so that we can talk off of the public forums. Sometimes the best information gets exchanged in PM''s.

Perry

 

[KittenKat]

GD - You''re not making a good case for Shane Co. Actually, the spelling errors and unreadable posts make me think upper-management would not want you representing them here on a public forum. If anything, you''ve turned people off to shopping with you store. (Bad PR...)

Second, I have been to Shane Co., just to check out their goods - As others said before, you get a whole lot less for your money. Heck, I''d LOVE to find a place I could buy MORE diamonds for my $$$, I''d be totally open to shopping your store if that were the case!

 

[pyramid]

Date: 12/7/2004 1:18:41 AM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

Date: 12/7/2004 12:30:29 AM
Author: cut to perfection
GD, bad news: Shane and Co. is a chain. Generally, more than three doors constitutes a chain by most standards. Also, although most chain stores strive to deliver a level of consistencey and a higher level of quality they usually just deliver junk...because they rely on price, not their educated sales staff to move product.

I hear a lot about this goodoldgold.com website....I don''t see what makes it so special. I examined some of their ''H&A'' stones and some of them had terrible attributes, most had at least one or two angles where the facets did not lineup to show correct arrows. The idea behind these stones is that they are cut to super-ideal standards. Not all ideal-cuts show hearts and arrows, but a stone that shows the correct proportions with hearts and arrows are generally ideal or better.

Many jewelers throw around the term ''ideal''. A 57% table with a 60% depth is not all that constitutes ''ideal''. Has anyone else experienced this?

CTP I see plenty of H&A''s that I could not call ideal in terms of light return. This is an ideal-scope image of an example - the upper girdles are leaking a lot - but it has fantastic H&A''s pattern and is an AGS 0.

I would be interested to hear what Rhino would say to the above reply about GOG?

 

[GD]

WHAT? I''m sorry, but YOU store? Please don''t correct my errors until you correct yours. As far as being a rep. for the Shane Co. , that''s not why I came here. I saw a bad comment about the place I work, and I responded. The next thing I know I''m being attacked. The Shane Co. has great settings, a good selection of fashion, and a good selection of diamonds. I''m sorry if you don''t agree, I wish you would go to a local Shane Co. and check it out though. I don''t want to be the offical Shane Co rep.. I want to stick around and find out what you people know. By the way, we had a customer come in with a diamond she bought on line. She thought it was real, but it wasn''t. Does that happen a lot, or did she just pick a bad on line store?
More questions to come-
GD

 

[perry]

GD:

Yes, some people get fooled and buy fake diamonds, both online and in stores.

One of the things that this site recommends is that any diamond purchase, either loose or set, be independently appraised - just to prevent this and other types of "problems." Reputable dealers have no problem with that either.

There is at least one site that I know that is selling "Russian" diamonds that are CZ and not Diamonds (do you really think you can get a 1 carat diamond ring for $75). There have been several reports of e-bay scams in the last several months (most notably one person who was buying "simulated diamond" jewelry for $30 to $50 from an e-bay dealer who deals in simulated diamonds, and then reselling it as real diamond jewelry for many many hudreds of dollars.

There was a report on this site in the past several weeks on a store who tried to pass a simulated diamond ring off as a diamond ring (but the people got it appraised right away - the value of having the ring appraised).

People who educate themselves on this site, almost never have such problems (and know what to do if they do).

Perry

 

[GD]

Thanks! I really didn''t know if it was a major problem or not. I would like to say this to everyone who has been on this site in the past few days. I never meant to give my job a bad name. I almost wish I had never said I worked there, so that I people who had never been in a Shane Co. wouldn''t have gotten a bad impression. I am sorry to anybody who did though, and I do not plan to continue to write any more post. I would however like to keep reading what other people have to say.There are things I don''t know about diamonds ( like I said, I work the office) and I think by reading other post, instead of adding my own, I can pick up on a couple things. I thank anybody who gave me their opinions ( good and bad) and look foward to reading more of what people have to say. Again, I hope that by me letting my personal opinions get the best of me, that I didn''t discourage anybody from at least checking out a Shane Co.. Well, this has been educational, by it''s late in my neck of the woods, so thank you for your time-
GD

 

[Melika]

Ok, I''m very knew to this, so please excuse me if I do this completly wrong. I did a search on "Shane Co." and came upon this link. When I clicked on the link I got more than what I had been expecting. What I had been expecting was a little complaint or two about the Shane Co. What I got instead was four pages of bantering about if it''s a good company, if it''s a chain, or (apparently) that it''s taking people''s money directly under the consumer''s nose. I''ve also read what GD had to say, and the response back from everyone else. And that''s where I believe it started; Mara wanted to make a point, but so did GD. I''ve also read that people were upset with GD because she didn''t claim that she worked with the company from the beginning. I''ve also read that people are testy about grammatical errors. (So I apologize in advance).

Here''s to my point. I work at the Shane Co. I''m not here to agree with anybody but just to tell GD to shut up. You aren''t making yourself or the Shane Co. look good. You sound like a kid throwing a temper-tantrum over spilled milk. I understand where you''re coming from GD, but the way that you''re coming across sounds like the complete opposite.

I agree with you Mara in the fact that GD nor I...nor anyone for that matter is going to convince you even in the slightest degree that Shane Co. is a good company and sells good diamonds at a reasonable cost. Just like color and clarity of a diamond is subjective, so is the opinion of a company to each individual person.

Unlike GD, I don''t work in the office, I''m a sale associate. Not that it matters to anyone else, but I just wanted to let the readers know that I do work with the diamonds hands on, almost everyday. (Except for the two days that I''m off) I really hope that it wasn''t me who was helping any of you-not because you guys sound annoying or mean, or rude, but because I''m not like the kind of sales associate that you guys are describing. I try really hard to build a repore with my customer; find out when their proposing or announcing the engagement. My customers often come back, and they seem truly happy.

OK, fine. You don''t like our diamonds that''s one thing. But please don''t dismiss every Shane Co. just because you had a bad experience with the sales person. We''re not all like that. I promise.

 

[weemodin]

Way to go, Melika!

Well-stated! I''d feel comfortable buying a diamond from someone like you if the price was right!

 

[Mara]

Melika I love your avatar, I'm a huge Chococat fan.

I appreciate your post in that you kept a level head and didn't come on here with your first post attacking us Pscopers for what we had said about the company or telling us that we are wrong to feel the way we are or we don't know what we are talking about....which is almost like the ultimate insult because people here are very into the 'knowledge' of learning about diamonds and sparkly baubles.

I would not buy a diamond at Shane just as I would not buy at a maul store--regardless of whether people consider them the same bird or not. I went there, did my due diligence and was left wanting. My salesguy was just fine, but I just was looking at the stones, not the person. If they had what I wanted, I would have gotten it.

But my bottom line on the Shane Co, which I have also said in previous threads, is that they have a very good setting selection. Nothing that I was interested in, but that is primarily why I went there, to look at their settings. It's a great place to get an idea of what you are looking for in terms of settings, and take a look at stones too. For me it was part of my education process...I visited alot of stores and looked at both stones and settings.

In the end I feel that Shane caters to the 'masses' rather than us picky diamond-obsessed Pscopers...which is why I wouldn't shop there. I'm not interested in the $199 earring special for the holiday, or the $99 pearl special for Valentines Day. I wouldn't buy a diamond there, because I require alot more than just a GIA cert to make a purchase. I would have definitely considered a setting there, but nothing appealed to me in the end. However, just saying what *I* feel doesn't mean that the business will ever suffer, Pscopers are a small bunch, probably less than 1% of the diamond-buying world.

Anyhow, I appreciate your post and for recognizing that how one feels is not up for debate. For me, it was never about the people working at Shane, but rather their products, which do not represent anything I am interested in. If you are thinking of sticking around to read more, please do, honestly I think that people like you could benefit from at least seeing what 'customers' are saying out there in the world, and you may be able to pick up a few things to take back your executives to say 'look, maybe we should be doing this'. In the end, it's ALL about learning...we are all there.

 

[JohnQuixote]

Date: 12/11/2004 3:39:34 PM
Author: Mara

1% of the diamond-buying world.

and growing...

 

[Deputy74]

It''s very easy to find out whether your stores diamonds measure up quality and price wise compared to the ones offered through the vendors that many people purchse from on here like WF or GOG and so forth. Compare one of your stone from your website w/ or w/o a setting to the ones offered here.

For exmaple, I found at the Shane wesbite, two that were
1.01 F VS2 Price $9095 or $8645

Now, diamonds offered at Dirt Cheap Diamonds:

1.01 F VS2 $5282-$$5781

Good Old Gold:

The closest I found was a :

1.06 F VS2 H&A $7371 (A little bit bigger diamond but still cheaper by at least ($1275)

White Flash:

1.01 F VS2 Price range $5532-$6857

These are the three of the most talked about vendors on here that people have had excellent experiences with because not only are the vendors knowledgeable but they actually take an interest in the person buying the diamond.

So please explain how a Shane store which IMO would be like a Kays or Jarods, can offer diamonds for $1200 to $4500 more? What is so special about your diamonds that you think they should cost that much?

 

[Deputy74]

fortheloveofdiamonds:
Just wanted to say that your quote with your pic always makes me laugh. I love that line in the movie. The only other part I liked my was him flying towards the xmas tree to put the star on. I''m gonna go watch it again.

 

[Deputy74]

GD:
"The Shane Co. has great settings, a good selection of fashion, and a good selection of diamonds. "

But compare all that to what your store charges for it. I have been to your website and the prices are outrageous compared to other vendors. With what I''ve seen of the online store and your experience, your store seems to be a lot like the other diamond mall stores. Ya''ll charge around the same amount for the same crappy diamonds. You might have a better selection than the mall stores, but your selection paired with your prices are about the same as a mall store. Mall stores usually sell low end quality diamonds but charge an arm and a leg for them. I shop at Kay''s (Please dont throw anything at me) but only for colored gemstone type stuff that my fiance can get me for my b-day, V day or xmas. That stuff is relatively cheap and they have a pretty good selection though no better than Helzberg or Samuel''s or the other vultures out there. Basically something small where you cant tell whether its good or not just that it''s pretty like a lab created sapphire or something. But I went to Kays to look at the Leo diamond and almost got one. But a friend told me about PS and I then became obsessed with the "perfect" diamond and who could offer it to me. Jonathan at GOG can probably vouch for me. I drove myself and probably him nuts. But my point being (yes I have one) is that he answered all my questions honestly. People who work at Kays or Helzberg dont care and really dont know much about diamonds. They just want they sale.

 

[Deputy74]

I agree with Mara. I myself would not buy from any retail diamond store just because of the overpricing which diamonds are WAY overpriced to begin with. BUT..it does leave you with a better impression if the sale associate can answer your questions and knows what you''re talking about and doesnt try to sell you something they know you dont want. I think the difference between you and GD is that you deal with the public every day and probably have better customer relations skills. You know how to communicate with people without being offensive.

I guess it all depends on who the store hires. At Kay''s, one of the sales people there I worked with before at Best Buy when he worked in Computers. I know he doesnt know the first thing about a diamond but he does know how to make a sale and that''s all they want. However, I have another friend who worked at a jewelry repair place in the mall and he is very knowledgebale about diamonds, settings, the metals and all. However, he is not a people person. So compare the two, one associate is uneducated but a smooth talker and the other is extremelyhelpful and can answer your questions and explain what matters most in a diamond but is kinda shy. My guess is that most stores want the smooth talker.

But if you could find both, someone who is good with people AND knows a thing or two about a diamond, then they''d have a winner. Which sounds like you Mileka. You dont have to be a resident expert, but knowing your basics is always a plus.

 

[fortheloveofdiamonds]

Date: 12/11/2004 8:50:45 PM
Author: Deputy74
fortheloveofdiamonds:
Just wanted to say that your quote with your pic always makes me laugh. I love that line in the movie. The only other part I liked my was him flying towards the xmas tree to put the star on. I''m gonna go watch it again.

Hihi!! I loooooooove this movie. I am a grad student and don''t have cable so all I watch are movies and I watch them over and over and over... I never get sick of Buddy the Elf! What''s your favorite color??!

 

[Melika]

For Christmas my boyfriend bought me a ring from another jeweler. And before people start jumping to assumptions that we sell crap, and now even I know that (which is not true

), he bought it because it''s a hawaiian ring, and we don''t carry that. Anyhow back to my point. We were looking at a couple of rings, and one of them had a center .07 round diamond and then channel set rounds along the side. I asked her what the clarity of the stone was, as well as the color, and she told me that everything is a VS1-VS2 and G in color. I asked her for a loupe and when I got it, the diamond not only looked like a I1, but it was chipped!!! I told her that the diamond was chipped and she told me...(are you ready for this?)...it was an inclusion. Are you freakin'' kidding me with this?!?! I didn''t feel like arguing about it, and let it go. However completly on her own (really she should have stopped while she was ahead), she proceeded to tell me that VS''s should have inclusions!!! (yes I understand that VS''s should have something small, but not I1 quality). And the cut was crap too. It didn''t sparkle...no life I tell ya. So in the end my bf bought me a small plumeria White Gold ring with a .05 round in the center. I plan on changing out the stone with one at work. Seriously guys, no matter what you think, our''s are gorgeous compared to this! Our''s are a mircle of nature, even if it''s only a melee.

 

[solange]

There are many people who just want to go out and buy a diamond. Even if they knew of Pricescope, they would not want to bother going through the tutorials and would be reluctant to buy on line. They are simply not interested in devoting hours to the study of diamonds as some Pricescope posters have done. Also, they may need an installment plan which most Pricescope vendors do not have or they may feel more comfortable buying from a chain or someone they know.

The B&Ms and the chain stores know their customers,what they can sell and the prices they can get--just as Tiffany's does.

Not everyone is inclined to go into a whole study of what is best for the price and where they can get it. Also, although I did study the situation on Pricescope for several months and bought on-line I am still very confused about some of the conflicting information and the new grading standards which may change the status of my stone which is now considered Ideal cut.

Many of my friends have bought expensive diamond jewelry. All they know is the carat weight and the spread,(the larger the spread the better bargain,) and the fact that their trusted jeweler told them it was "the best".(Would he lie?). I know they are overpaying but I would never discuss buying on-line with certain people because they are sure they are getting a great bargain, especially when they go to the appraiser the jeweler sent them to and he gives them a retail appraisal for at least twice what they paid.

The people who are inclined to buy at Shane's obviously trust them and I suspect that very few will look at what they could have gotten on Pricescope for less. There are markets for every type of vendor. Shane, Zale's, B&Ms and others are serving the needs of a large number of buyers or they could not stay in business.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Beauuuutifully put Solange

As Scott B says - you pay more at a game for coke.

 

[Overseas diamonds]

We went to Amsterdam and bought ours, much better quality, more knowledgable, if you buy just the diamond without the ring you don''t pay customs. We saved probably $2000 by buying it over there vs the same cut that we would have bought here. There are several places in Amsterdam that sell good quality jewelery. Check it out.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

you have a good name - OSeas Diamonds - there is a guy, Davy Lapa, who is quite a character who has a business by that name.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 12/16/2004 4:26:29 PM
Author: Overseas diamonds
We went to Amsterdam and bought ours, much better quality, more knowledgable, if you buy just the diamond without the ring you don''t pay customs. We saved probably $2000 by buying it over there vs the same cut that we would have bought here. There are several places in Amsterdam that sell good quality jewelery. Check it out.

From my experiances with clients who bought in Amsterdam OSD, I doubt you did not get it cheaper

 

[hopkinsmsb]

I just wanted to put something out there for anyone to chew on: Mediocre to decent quality in exchange for exemplary customer service is not, by any means, a new concept to capitalism. Take Lexus, for example. Basically a very expensive Toyota. But people (actually, people I know) will pay an extra $10,000 for 5 oil changes performed by the company mechanics. The car "signals" when it needs it''s oil changed, and service people will come to your residence in the middle of the night and work on your car "so that it doesn''t inconvenience your life". Consumers will pay outrageous costs for a tux at, say, Nordstrom, because it''s back at the store with your tailoring needs within about 48 hours. Granted, there are other factors as to why people pay so much for "not so much".
I have a job interview at the Shane Co. tomorrow, and came upon this site while doing some pre-interiew research. I really appreciate the comments and critiques, and I may be biased, but did you ever think that maybe an average, working Joe may want only to feel valued by an industry he knows nothing about while shopping for his sweetie? I think that''s really what it comes down to. "Chain" stores are designed to cater to the needs of the uneducated masses. There is always a level of deceite involved in sales.
Anyway, I know very little about diamonds, and quite frankly, I think that I would shop at the Shane Co. almost soley based on their advertising techniques. But this is from the viewpoint of the proletariate.

 

[pqcollectibles]

There is always a level of deceite involved in sales.

Excuse moi''???!!!

If you have a good product, and know your product, you don''t have to deceive anyone to sell it. The product will sell itself. Customer service, quick response, and the personal touch of the sales associate assisting the customer are just icing on the cake.

But this is from the viewpoint of the proletariate.

While everyone here may not be equal financially speaking, this forum is definitely not of the proletariat mindset. The average Joe''s here are not buying in MAUL shops. They are reading, researching, and learning so they can spend the SAME amount of money for a QUALITY product.

 

[RockDoc]

I wanted to chime in here.

I would recomend that Shane & Co. publish a list of independent appraisers, that they will send the diamonds to, withoug charging the customer for the diamond in advance and publish this with their advertising.

Regardless of the educational level of its people, Shane IS biased in their opinion. I think the general consensus in reviewing the posts is that many people would not buy from Shane. I have nothing against the company and because I do not believe there are Shane stores here I haven''t had the experience is testing your merchandise.

There is a list of independent gemologists and appraisers that Shane could send their stones to for consumers. The customers would then only risk the fee charged by the appraiser to get complete peace of mind. Doing this would result in the public having more trust in your products and purchases. Not doing it when a customer would want this done would reduce the credibility.

There should not be negativeity or discord for expressing a dissenting opinion, but rather a lot of these posts could be turned to a positive position, if Shane Co. would be willing to have independent impartial professionals review potential purchases.

I offer this suggestion in a positive fashion that would improve the perceived credibility of the company as well as perhaps change the opinion of those who expressed a negative experience there.

So for those of you affiliated with the company, probably you should have a conference with the owner, and suggest this to him, in the spirit of protecting consumers and reassuring them that their purchases are properly represented, and are the quality level that the consumer wants.

There are lots of appraisers here, that would be fair and unbiased and would be a great stride forward for consumer perceiption... Maybe turn people around that have criticized your practices, goods and pricing.

Interested in hearing everyone''s take on this proposal both yours on behalf of Shane Co, and both positive and negative or inexperienced customers that expressed their opinions on this thread.

Rockdoc

I have a lot of posts about Shane Co. both positive and negative.

 

[hopkinsmsb]

In an ideal world, yes, quality and knowledge of product would be more than sufficient. But as has been cited on many posts here, every sales person pumps their product up to be "the best" value, quality, etc. That doesn''t mean it''s true. I agree, smart customers inform themselves before investing in something like a diamond.
I feel like my comments were taken out of context, but oh well. By the way, what I was getting at was that average Joe Prole, myself (as someone with no real knowledge of diamonds but perhaps an interest in purchasing one and/or a desire to learn) included, shops at the Shane Co. because of their reputation, atmosphere, and extensive advertising. He wants primarily to be treated with respect and to make the receiver of the gift happy. Those elements, I feel, are probably the most essential elements of a successful business of any industry. Anyway, I could be oversimplifying, but I was certainly not making any implications as to the "mindset" of the forum.... Just proposing an idea.

 

[pqcollectibles]

!

 

[hopkinsmsb]

My, you certainly are full of malice. Maybe you need to keep that out of the forum.

 

[Diamonds4Me]

Date: 2/11/2005 12:55:55 AM
Author: hopkinsmsb
In an ideal world, yes, quality and knowledge of product would be more than sufficient. But as has been cited on many posts here, every sales person pumps their product up to be ''the best'' value, quality, etc. That doesn''t mean it''s true. I agree, smart customers inform themselves before investing in something like a diamond.
I feel like my comments were taken out of context, but oh well. By the way, what I was getting at was that average Joe Prole, myself (as someone with no real knowledge of diamonds but perhaps an interest in purchasing one and/or a desire to learn) included, shops at the Shane Co. because of their reputation, atmosphere, and extensive advertising. He wants primarily to be treated with respect and to make the receiver of the gift happy. Those elements, I feel, are probably the most essential elements of a successful business of any industry. Anyway, I could be oversimplifying, but I was certainly not making any implications as to the ''mindset'' of the forum.... Just proposing an idea.

In real estate that is called "puffing". It isn''t illegal because it''s their opinion and it is advised that the the buyer use their judgement and the information obtained in independent appraisals. Be it a house or a diamond.