shape
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Selling a diamond ring

DMS

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 24, 2010
Messages
6
Hello,

My mother in law has a diamond ring she would like to sell. She had an appraisal from a local gemologist in 2001.

The setting is just a simple 18k yellow gold setting, however the diamond is pretty nice.

Here are the specs (that we have, as given to us from the gemologist):

Round brilliant
2.4 Carat
Diameter: 8.70mm x 8.66mm
Depth: 5.29mm
Color: E-F-G
Clarity: VVS2 - VS1
Depth Percentage: 60.8%
Girdle Thickness: "thin frosted with natural"
Cutlet Size: "Very small"
Estimated Crown Angle: 34 degrees
Estimated Pavilion Depth Percentage: 44.5%
Polish: Very Good
Symmetry: Very Good
Fluorescence: Faint


The appraisal was for $65,000. I've done some searching on various sites and it doesn't seem to be that far off, likely on the high end from what I can tell (untrained).

Aside from the price, would anyone recommend how I should go about selling this? I don't have a GIA report or really any other information other than what the gemologist provided.

Thank you - really appreciate any help!
 

wannaBMrsH

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Sep 27, 2008
Messages
1,049
I don't have any advice on selling it, but it sounds beautiful.

Maybe, in order to get as much money as possible in return, it might be worth it to send it to GIA for a certification. It would be hard for me to justify this purchase without a certificate and it would be VERY hard to insure for the true value as well.

I've never sold a ring and mine isn't nearly that big, but that is what I thought when I read your post. Post pics if you can so we can drool!
 

Amys Bling

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jun 25, 2010
Messages
11,025
Try contacting JbEG (jewels by Erica grace) they do consignment.
 

Amys Bling

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jun 25, 2010
Messages
11,025
Also- keep in mind that selling second hand you aren't going to sell for anywhere bear the appraisal price you were quoted.
 

yssie

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Messages
27,317
If she wants to sell it and get top dollar tell her to have the stone removed and sent to GIA, then ship it off to be listed on consigment.

GIA is the authority on colour, clarity - which, as I'm sure you've already found, make a *huge* difference in price for a given carat. People spending that kind of money are going to want an independent authority's confirmation:
1. They're not going to be comfortable with a stated range of E-F-G VVS/VS from an unknown entity - the buyer doesn't know if this appraiser grades 'loosely', but it's a fair bet as most do (or if the stone was even evaluated loose). A buyer is going to be willing to pay more for a GIA stated E than a Joe Shmoe stated E
2. No info on what the current condition of the stone is - unless it's never been worn between the appraisal in '01 and now, it could have acquired chips/scratches (that may lower clarity)
3. With no more info on cut/proportions niche markets like PS consumers aren't going to be interested - though if that 44.5%depth is accurate - 41.7ish deg - odds are this isn't the right niche anyway

As Amy said you're not going to get as much back selling on the secondary market as a vendor would selling a brand new stone w/ a new report - consignment probably has the best yields, but it can take some time to move something that costs tens of thousands.
 

DMS

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 24, 2010
Messages
6
Just took a couple photos, here you go

**please upload images to forum directly and a reminder that we do not allow sales on PS**
 

DMS

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 24, 2010
Messages
6
Amys Bling|1313011063|2988102 said:
Try contacting JbEG (jewels by Erica grace) they do consignment.

Thank you - I'll check them out
 

DMS

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 24, 2010
Messages
6
Yssie|1313011753|2988107 said:
If she wants to sell it and get top dollar tell her to have the stone removed and sent to GIA, then ship it off to be listed on consigment.

GIA is the authority on colour, clarity - which, as I'm sure you've already found, make a *huge* difference in price for a given carat. People spending that kind of money are going to want an independent authority's confirmation:
1. They're not going to be comfortable with a stated range of E-F-G VVS/VS from an unknown entity - the buyer doesn't know if this appraiser grades 'loosely', but it's a fair bet as most do (or if the stone was even evaluated loose). A buyer is going to be willing to pay more for a GIA stated E than a Joe Shmoe stated E
2. No info on what the current condition of the stone is - unless it's never been worn between the appraisal in '01 and now, it could have acquired chips/scratches (that may lower clarity)
3. With no more info on cut/proportions niche markets like PS consumers aren't going to be interested - though if that 44.5%depth is accurate - 41.7ish deg - odds are this isn't the right niche anyway

As Amy said you're not going to get as much back selling on the secondary market as a vendor would selling a brand new stone w/ a new report - consignment probably has the best yields, but it can take some time to move something that costs tens of thousands.

Thanks for the info.. I just spoke with GIA, it's $150 to have a report done. I'll be in NY in a couple weeks so I can just drop it off there.

Is 44.5% depth bad? Also, we're really not looking for top dollar, just a fair price, I think consignment may be a little more then we would like to do, even if we end up getting less. Would prefer to do a faster sale. Still I guess GIA is necessary?
 

yssie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
27,317
DMS|1313013024|2988123 said:
Thanks for the info.. I just spoke with GIA, it's $150 to have a report done. I'll be in NY in a couple weeks so I can just drop it off there.

Is 44.5% depth bad? Also, we're really not looking for top dollar, just a fair price, I think consignment may be a little more then we would like to do, even if we end up getting less. Would prefer to do a faster sale. Still I guess GIA is necessary?


It can only help. If your stone was an antique type it would be different, as those are held to different standards, but since it's an RB people are going to judge and compare with the masses of other RBs out there - the report A) tells you exactly what you've got, so you know what sort of pricepoint you're looking at, and B) gives other people the confidence that you've got what you say you've got!

It's not the proportion combination that people on here (who generally are looking for lots of evenly distributed light return face-up) look for. More explanation here if you're interested [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/laboratory-cut-grades-what-the-report-doesn%E2%80%99t-show.117498/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/laboratory-cut-grades-what-the-report-doesn%E2%80%99t-show.117498/[/URL]
 

yssie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
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Messages
27,317
Double
 

Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 3, 2004
Messages
33,852
[quote="DMS|1313013024|2988123

I just spoke with GIA, it's $150 to have a report done. I'll be in NY in a couple weeks so I can just drop it off there.

Is 44.5% depth bad? Also, we're really not looking for top dollar, just a fair price, I think consignment may be a little more then we would like to do, even if we end up getting less. Would prefer to do a faster sale. Still I guess GIA is necessary?[/quote]
a well cut stone should be closer to 43% pavil depth.
 

denverappraiser

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jul 21, 2004
Messages
9,153
DMS|1313009987|2988095 said:
Hello,

My mother in law has a diamond ring she would like to sell. She had an appraisal from a local gemologist in 2001.

The setting is just a simple 18k yellow gold setting, however the diamond is pretty nice.

Here are the specs (that we have, as given to us from the gemologist):

Round brilliant
2.4 Carat
Diameter: 8.70mm x 8.66mm
Depth: 5.29mm
Color: E-F-G
Clarity: VVS2 - VS1
Depth Percentage: 60.8%
Girdle Thickness: "thin frosted with natural"
Cutlet Size: "Very small"
Estimated Crown Angle: 34 degrees
Estimated Pavilion Depth Percentage: 44.5%
Polish: Very Good
Symmetry: Very Good
Fluorescence: Faint


The appraisal was for $65,000. I've done some searching on various sites and it doesn't seem to be that far off, likely on the high end from what I can tell (untrained).

Aside from the price, would anyone recommend how I should go about selling this? I don't have a GIA report or really any other information other than what the gemologist provided.

Thank you - really appreciate any help!
The difference between an E/VVS2 and a G/VS1 is huge, and that assumes that the gemologist is correct. If we include H/VS2 as a choice and the possible range of cut grades and you've got a factor of 3 range in what to expect. A decent grading is ESSENTIAL, and if you're in the US, GIA are your guys. Immediately is a good schedule. If you're going to try and have them do it while you're in the city, you'll have to pay a rush charge. Otherwise they're taking 3-4 weeks to do the job. Depending on how good you are at market research you may still want an appraisal. Perhaps I'm biased but I find most people with goods like this benefit from professional assistance. A 10 year old report from an unknown gemologist who is estimating critical information so that they can come to a retail replacement value is not the same thing.

One of the side benefits of a real and recent GIA is that it's much easier to shop it between the dealers. They can give a much more reliable tentative bid based on a scan of the report. They'll still want to see the stone in person, of course, but it's easier to decide if it's worth your trouble to go visit them.

Warning: If you go to NYC, be aware that there are sharks on the street who want your diamond. That's a popular set of specs and you WILL find enthusiasm for this if those grading details are anywhere near correct. Don't get caught up in the pressure of it. Sell to one of those guys if you want but diamonds are NOT perishable and the deals will probably be just as good tomorrow as they are today, maybe better. Don't let them push you into doing it without thinking it over.

Note to prosumers: Estimated pavilion depth percentage 44.5% has an important qualifier. Estimating these things is tricky, especially if it's being examined mounted and a 2% margin of error is actually doing pretty good. We don't know who the gemologist here is and what sorts of tools they're using but we can't use these numbers the same way we would be using numbers supplied by GIA or AGS unless we know more about how they came by that 'estimate'.
 

DMS

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 24, 2010
Messages
6
denverappraiser|1313066565|2988474 said:
DMS|1313009987|2988095 said:
Hello,

My mother in law has a diamond ring she would like to sell. She had an appraisal from a local gemologist in 2001.

The setting is just a simple 18k yellow gold setting, however the diamond is pretty nice.

Here are the specs (that we have, as given to us from the gemologist):

Round brilliant
2.4 Carat
Diameter: 8.70mm x 8.66mm
Depth: 5.29mm
Color: E-F-G
Clarity: VVS2 - VS1
Depth Percentage: 60.8%
Girdle Thickness: "thin frosted with natural"
Cutlet Size: "Very small"
Estimated Crown Angle: 34 degrees
Estimated Pavilion Depth Percentage: 44.5%
Polish: Very Good
Symmetry: Very Good
Fluorescence: Faint


The appraisal was for $65,000. I've done some searching on various sites and it doesn't seem to be that far off, likely on the high end from what I can tell (untrained).

Aside from the price, would anyone recommend how I should go about selling this? I don't have a GIA report or really any other information other than what the gemologist provided.

Thank you - really appreciate any help!
The difference between an E/VVS2 and a G/VS1 is huge, and that assumes that the gemologist is correct. If we include H/VS2 as a choice and the possible range of cut grades and you've got a factor of 3 range in what to expect. A decent grading is ESSENTIAL, and if you're in the US, GIA are your guys. Immediately is a good schedule. If you're going to try and have them do it while you're in the city, you'll have to pay a rush charge. Otherwise they're taking 3-4 weeks to do the job. Depending on how good you are at market research you may still want an appraisal. Perhaps I'm biased but I find most people with goods like this benefit from professional assistance. A 10 year old report from an unknown gemologist who is estimating critical information so that they can come to a retail replacement value is not the same thing.

One of the side benefits of a real and recent GIA is that it's much easier to shop it between the dealers. They can give a much more reliable tentative bid based on a scan of the report. They'll still want to see the stone in person, of course, but it's easier to decide if it's worth your trouble to go visit them.

Warning: If you go to NYC, be aware that there are sharks on the street who want your diamond. That's a popular set of specs and you WILL find enthusiasm for this if those grading details are anywhere near correct. Don't get caught up in the pressure of it. Sell to one of those guys if you want but diamonds are NOT perishable and the deals will probably be just as good tomorrow as they are today, maybe better. Don't let them push you into doing it without thinking it over.

Note to prosumers: Estimated pavilion depth percentage 44.5% has an important qualifier. Estimating these things is tricky, especially if it's being examined mounted and a 2% margin of error is actually doing pretty good. We don't know who the gemologist here is and what sorts of tools they're using but we can't use these numbers the same way we would be using numbers supplied by GIA or AGS unless we know more about how they came by that 'estimate'.

Thanks for all the info. I took it to a local gemologist last night and he said the color is more likely J-K and the clarity is more likely VS2 - SI1. He offered me $8,500 for it. We compared to one he had that he said was D-E, and yes there was definitely more yellow.

He suggested basically the same as everyone here, probably worth getting a GIA for it so we know for certain, then I can shop it around (either with him or outside) and should get quotes all around the same price (within a few hundred), or I could sell through eBay/Craigs List, but there are obvious challenges with that (finding someone, collecting payments).

I'll take it with me to NY and drop it off at the GIA. I'll wait for them to just send back by mail when they're done. Then based on how it comes back, see where we are.

Thanks again!
 

DMS

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 24, 2010
Messages
6
I just wanted to post an update and also ask for any feedback.

I took this diamond to GIA and just received back the grade.

It's color is an L.

Weight: 2.40
Measurements: 8.68 - 8.73 x 5.25
Clarity: SI1
Cut Grade: Very Good
Polish: Very Good
Symmetry: Excellent
Fluorescence: None

It's hard to even find a price on this as most sites don't even list anything past J or K.

Any suggestions what to do with this now? Not sure if consignment would be worth it? May be worth just going to a pawn shop or ebay?

Thank you!
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
33,444
Wow, it dropped from a possible E VVS2 to a verified L SI1.
That is astonishing!!!
On one hand you are probably disappointed since a "gemologist" told you it was worth $65,000 back in 2001, likely over $100,000 today.
On the other hand at least now you know what you have and can proceed without being suspicious, shocked or insulted by offers from those in the know.

I just have to say that I would personally like to slap the scumbag who gave you that "appraisal" ten years ago!
They make their living saying what diamond owners want to hear. LIES! :angryfire:
They give the industry a bad name. :nono: :nono: :nono:
I see them as no better than those soft grading labs.

There are sites on the Internet where you can sell your diamond without paying a commission to anyone.
I'm not sure we can mention them by name here but they are easy to Goggle up.

I'd ask 70% of today's Internet retail for a new diamond from an Internet vendor like Bluenile.
You may not get what you ask; it depends how patient you are.
If speed is your priority you will get much less but a pawn shop or jeweler may take it off your hands quickly now that it has a GIA grading report.

I just checked and the lowest color Bluenile carries is J.
Based on the 6 closest comps Bluenile has today I'd guess 70% of what they would charge for a new GIA 2.4 L SI1 with VG cut might be around $10 to $12K.
A vendor or appraiser here may be able to give you a better figure for how much less an L would cost than a J.

080808.png
 

denverappraiser

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jul 21, 2004
Messages
9,153
In person stores do a lot better with this kind of goods than the Internet sites do. As you've observed, most don't actually sell them at all. Many stores are happy to do a consignment deal with you and they should be able to quote you prices up front. There ARE customers who are looking for big sizes and are willing to sacrifice color in order to keep the price down, they just don't seem to be shopping at the big virtual database sites. Paying a commission to someone who actually does the work is not necessarily a waste. It depends on your own skills at this sort of thing. It's still a saleable stone but I think you will find it difficult to realize the prices Kenny is suggesting. Pawnshops and their ilk will certainly buy and, as I recall, you've already got a bid from one of those and, by all means, consider it, especially if time is of the essence. There's lots of competitors in that business. Ebay I think will be difficult unless you're a highly experienced ebayer. The vast majority of the auctions for things like this expire without a single bid.

I still think you would benefit from a REAL appraisal. Marketing questions like you have are often a big piece of the questions.
 

Amys Bling

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jun 25, 2010
Messages
11,025
Well stated Kenny.


Don't be discouraged as many people seek out stones in the JKL range. I still think consignment us best bet.
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Messages
33,444
denverappraiser|1315410365|3011629 said:
. . . I think you will find it difficult to realize the prices Kenny is suggesting.

I agree completely.
That is why I mentioned the difference between asking and getting prices, put that in bold and mentioned patience.
Asking price is not expecting price.
Why not start on the high side if you are in no hurry?

I also agree having a pro sell it for you and sharing the money is not always a waste.
People certainly vary.
 

ruby59

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 5, 2004
Messages
3,553
JMO, but do not list it on ebay. It will attract every scammer on the planet.
 

Dreamer_D

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
26,136
I recommend contacting BGD about a possible recut before resale. Another alternative is to contact Wink Jones who might be able to put you in touch with Paul Slegers from Higher Performance diamonds. Depending on the lab report there is the possibility he can recut it and sell it as an infinity stone. They often offer lower colors in their inventory. Or, keep it as is, price it right, and try consigning it, I would try through Good Old Gold to reach a wider market, or JBeg, though the market would be smaller I think.
 

denverappraiser

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jul 21, 2004
Messages
9,153
Dreamer_D|1315416158|3011732 said:
I recommend contacting BGD about a possible recut before resale. Another alternative is to contact Wink Jones who might be able to put you in touch with Paul Slegers from Higher Performance diamonds. Depending on the lab report there is the possibility he can recut it and sell it as an infinity stone. They often offer lower colors in their inventory. Or, keep it as is, price it right, and try consigning it, I would try through Good Old Gold to reach a wider market, or JBeg, though the market would be smaller I think.
Dreamer,
I would NOT recommend recutting a GIA-VG if the objective is resale. You almost never get back the investment. The costs are not inconsequential, the risks are not inconsequential, the time is not inconsequential and the difficulties of selling diamonds remain even if the stone looks better. Consigning it to a trusted vender in it's current condition strikes me as both faster and better. If the buyer wants to recut it, let THEM absorb the costs and take the risks (and possibly reap the rewards).
 

Dreamer_D

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
26,136
denverappraiser|1315433769|3012044 said:
Dreamer_D|1315416158|3011732 said:
I recommend contacting BGD about a possible recut before resale. Another alternative is to contact Wink Jones who might be able to put you in touch with Paul Slegers from Higher Performance diamonds. Depending on the lab report there is the possibility he can recut it and sell it as an infinity stone. They often offer lower colors in their inventory. Or, keep it as is, price it right, and try consigning it, I would try through Good Old Gold to reach a wider market, or JBeg, though the market would be smaller I think.
Dreamer,
I would NOT recommend recutting a GIA-VG if the objective is resale. You almost never get back the investment. The costs are not inconsequential, the risks are not inconsequential, the time is not inconsequential and the difficulties of selling diamonds remain even if the stone looks better. Consigning it to a trusted vender in it's current condition strikes me as both faster and better. If the buyer wants to recut it, let THEM absorb the costs and take the risks (and possibly reap the rewards).

My thought was that consigned with a vendor known to PS, a ideally proportioned L of the right price might actually sell, whereas a VG L might not. But you know better than I on this one!
 

mrssalvo

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 3, 2005
Messages
19,132
I personally wouldn't spend the money to recut and would probably opt to consign it with GOG. They carry lower colored stones in other cuts and although your stone isn't and ideal cut round there may be a good chance for a buyer to see it there. GOG also has a B&M store with a lot of store business as well as a huge internet presence so they would be my first choice to try and consign it.
 

centralsquare

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 18, 2009
Messages
2,216
Wow - surprised the grading came back so differently from GIA!!
 

kmb123

Rough_Rock
Joined
Sep 8, 2011
Messages
1
Very similar question for smaller, less valuable stone. Grandmother needs the money sooner rather than later. I have round .72 k diamond plucked out of broken setting. Wholesale jeweler I bought my wife's engagement ring from guessed about an L color, but that's all I have to go on. He said he'd buy if I had to sell immediately for approx $800, based on what it would cost him to buy a matching diamond to make a pair (cost to him $1200), though he doesn't deal in that quality. Would simply "send to New York"...

Knowing that value, is it worth $125 (quoted price I find online for Houston GIA report) to get it graded? Or just take the $800? That's a sizeable amount of money for her...
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
33,444
kmb123|1315512673|3012920 said:
Very similar question for smaller, less valuable stone. Grandmother needs the money sooner rather than later. I have round .72 k diamond plucked out of broken setting. Wholesale jeweler I bought my wife's engagement ring from guessed about an L color, but that's all I have to go on. He said he'd buy if I had to sell immediately for approx $800, based on what it would cost him to buy a matching diamond to make a pair (cost to him $1200), though he doesn't deal in that quality. Would simply "send to New York"...

Knowing that value, is it worth $125 (quoted price I find online for Houston GIA report) to get it graded? Or just take the $800? That's a sizeable amount of money for her...

I would not trust the buyer to evaluate the value.
Nothing personal, but there is an inherent conflict of interest.

I don't think GIA has a gemological lab in Houston.
Perhaps it is a human with a GG (Graduate in Gemology) certificate from GIA and that human located their appraising business in Houston.
A "report" from a GG is NOT a GIA report, and it reflects poorly on him/her if they are claiming that.
An appraisal (even from a GG) and a real GIA Grading Report are totally different animals, and the real GIA report carries far more weight, and is cheaper than what this person in Houston is selling.

You can send it (loose diamonds only) to GIA yourself (you don't have to pay a jeweler his/her extra fee) to get one of two grading reports.
A full report is $78 and abbreviated one is $53, plus shipping.
Call GIA for instructions.

As a buyer of a used diamond I'd believe a GIA report over ANY appraisal.
IOW, I personally would NOT buy any diamond without a grading report from GIA or AGS.
Even very knowledgeable and sophisticated buyers who would, would feel better with a grading report from these two labs.

gggggg.png
 
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