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Sapphire experts, I need your help!!!!!!!! Please!!!

Discussion in 'Colored Stones' started by ff, Oct 28, 2006.

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  1. ff
    Shiny_Rock

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    by ff » Oct 28, 2006
    Hi everyone,

    as you might have read in the other thread...

    http://www.pricescope.com/forum/colored-stones/finally-all-3-stones-picked-thanks-everyone-at-ps-for-all-the-help-t52569.html

    ...I was pretty confident in my choice of the two side sapphires. I''m having some major second thoughts though... [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    I absolutely love the color but I''m not sure if these stones are of good enough quality considering how much I paid for them. I will leave the price out for now till the experts have weighed in so that we have an unbiased judgement on them.

    I''m going to put a bunch of photos in this thread with some notes/questions by some of the photos. I would VERY much appreciate hearing some thoughts both on the stones and on what an appropriate price should be for the pair.

    For now, all I can say is that they are .70 carats total weight, 4.1mm, and anything else you can get from the photos below.

    Thank you for any and all feedback.
     
  2. ff
    Shiny_Rock

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    by ff » Oct 28, 2006
    Photo 1 - The Pair

    As you can see, pretty nice deep blue color.

    IMG_7521.jpg
     
  3. ff
    Shiny_Rock

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    by ff » Oct 28, 2006
    Photo 2 - The pair

    Showing some direct sunglight on them.

    IMG_7533.jpg
     
  4. ff
    Shiny_Rock

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    by ff » Oct 28, 2006
    Photo 3 - Left Sapphire

    If you look down the center, it looks like some feathers. It actually seems to be due to a non-perfect cut. It will be clearer in other photos. The affect is visible at non-magnification as well.

    IMG_7620.jpg
     
  5. ff
    Shiny_Rock

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    by ff » Oct 28, 2006
    Photo 4 - Left Sapphire.

    Notice that the cullet isn''t really a point. More of a line as not all the faces are meeting there. This is what I believe gives that feather looking like affect when looking at the sapphire''s table.
     
  6. ff
    Shiny_Rock

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    by ff » Oct 28, 2006
    ooops... here''s photo 4.

    IMG_7629.jpg
     
  7. ff
    Shiny_Rock

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    by ff » Oct 28, 2006
    photo 5 - left sapphire

    Here''s one from the side.

    IMG_7638.jpg
     
  8. ff
    Shiny_Rock

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    by ff » Oct 28, 2006
    photo 6 - left sapphire

    Should the girdle on a sapphire look like this? See above photo also. I''m guessing that perhaps it''s done this way as sapphires are not as hard as diamonds. I just want to make sure that this is normal.

    IMG_7642.jpg
     
  9. ff
    Shiny_Rock

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    by ff » Oct 28, 2006
    There are a bunch of other inclusions in it like at 3:30 near the outside but those don''t really bother me and from what I''m reading, this is pretty common in sapphires, correct?

    That covers it for the left sapphire. I think the off symetrical cut is what is really throwing me off.

    IMG_7646.jpg
     
  10. ff
    Shiny_Rock

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    by ff » Oct 28, 2006
    photo 8 - Right sapphire

    Note here that the cut really isn''t that perfect. Facets are not meeting at points. The table for instance has more than 8 sides... a bunch of smaller ones between the 8 star facets. Am I just spoiled by an excellent cut diamond (the center stone)? How well would you consider this sapphire cut?

    IMG_7559.jpg
     
  11. ff
    Shiny_Rock

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    by ff » Oct 28, 2006
    Photo 9 - Right Sapphire

    Shows a good view of some of the inclusions.

    IMG_7573.jpg
     
  12. ff
    Shiny_Rock

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    by ff » Oct 28, 2006
    Photo 10 - Right Sapphire

    Shows a good view of the bottom on this one. Cullet definitely seems to be cut much better with all facets meeting at a point.

    IMG_7583.jpg
     
  13. ff
    Shiny_Rock

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    by ff » Oct 28, 2006
    Photo 11 - Right Sapphire

    Gives a good view of the girdle on this one.

    IMG_7590.jpg
     
  14. ff
    Shiny_Rock

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    by ff » Oct 28, 2006
    Photo 12 - Right Sapphire

    How about the color spread? To the eye, it looks pretty consistent from the top. From below, you can see the obvious difference in some areas. How good/bad is this particular sapphire?

    IMG_7603.jpg
     
  15. ff
    Shiny_Rock

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    by ff » Oct 28, 2006
    Last photo - Right Sapphire

    Another good side view. You can see the angles on the girdle easily where they are being held in the tweezers.

    IMG_7691.jpg
     
  16. ff
    Shiny_Rock

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    by ff » Oct 28, 2006
    That covers it. So please let me know what all you sapphire experts think of these stones and what would be an appropriate price range for them. I think I might have seriously overpaid but hoping not. [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
     
  17. JulieN
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by JulieN » Oct 28, 2006
    Sorry, no idea on the cut. I know some of the experts are amazing with colored stone cut. For me, I'd go with something less dark.
     
  18. Kaleigh
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by Kaleigh » Oct 28, 2006
    Not sure of pricing, but honestly they don't look like a good match for sidestones. They are pretty lifeless, and dark. I know that's not what you want to hear, but you asked. [​IMG]
    Sapphires can sparkle quite nicely, and these just don't have that sparkle to them. The polish looks a bit rough , and you can do better clarity wise as well. [​IMG]
     
  19. ff
    Shiny_Rock

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    by ff » Oct 28, 2006
    JulieN: Thanks for the input. I found that a lot of the lighter ones don''t have that deep blue feel. They seem to get more violety. Any suggestions?

    Kaleigh: That''s exactly what I want to hear... true opinions. Good or bad. I would much rather know that I didn''t get a good pair and continue to look for something better if that is the case. Where would be the best place to look for ones like you are describing. I''ve looked at so many sites and there just doesn''t seem to be the same selection out there like there are with diamonds. These two, I had my local B&M get in for me.

    If there is any dealer out there reading this who would like to send me links to pairs to check out, please feel free to do so!
     
  20. Kaleigh
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by Kaleigh » Oct 28, 2006
    I'm not sure what your budget is, but www.cherrypicked.com and www.thenaturalsapphireco.com have a great reputation here, but are expensive. If you go locally, ask for well cut sapphires that are bright in color, have life to them, and are well saturated. They shouldn't have windows, be well polished and have good clarity. Maybe find another jeweler?? One that is going to " understand " what you want?? Anyway, good luck, they are out there, and not too hard to find. You just need to know what you are looking for and now you do!!![​IMG]
     
  21. JulieN
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by JulieN » Oct 28, 2006
    You might try Wink Jones, send him these pictures, ask for something with the same hue, but more life.
     
  22. ForteKitty
    Ideal_Rock

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    by ForteKitty » Oct 28, 2006
    ff~ I have a pair of created sapphires (still the same compound, just lab made) that look a lot better than that in terms of color and sparkle, and they only cost $20. I think you can do much better than those sapphires. That diamond is a knockout tho!!
     
  23. DiamondExpert
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by DiamondExpert » Oct 28, 2006
    Seems your biggest problem is trying to equate the cutting of these native cut stones with diamond cutting!....can''t do it!...don''t try!

    You should be more concerned with hue, tone and saturation...do they look good to your eye - no zoning, no windowing, not much extinction, etc.

    Colored stones are cut for color, and this includes fancy colored diamonds!

    Unless you have each stone custom cut to match characteristics, don''t expect a match like you would expect to see with diamonds.

    Good luck!
     
  24. DiamondExpert
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by DiamondExpert » Oct 28, 2006
    Hey Garry - you got that right!
     
  25. ff
    Shiny_Rock

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    by ff » Oct 28, 2006
    Kaleigh: Thanks. I''ve checked both places but they don''t seem to have anything online in stock that matches the size and color that I''m looking for. I might try dropping them an email. Overall though, my jeweller has been very good and understanding and patient with me so will definitely give him a further chance on this if I decide these aren''t the ones.

    JulieN: Thanks. I fired Wink a note!

    ForteKitty: Thanks! Got that diamond after learning a lot here so avoided a lot of pitfalls and I am super happy with what I ended up with. [​IMG]

    Garry: See my note in the other forum for rest of reply but in general, thanks for making a guy feel crappy about asking questions on a forum specifically setup to do so! [​IMG] Is an "unreasonable gem buyer" one that has no clue about sapphires so asks?!? You (and everyone else here) have been super helpful on diamonds so maybe we''re just dealing with some sapphire pet peeve? [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG] Don''t worry though. I had some salt nearby when I read your comments. [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    As I said, I know nothing about Sapphires!! Nothing other than what I''ve been trying to read up on them but there is nowhere near the same info. on sapphires as there is on diamonds. I am however, completely open to learn... if sapphire standards are completely different, please feel free to educate me.

    This ring (and the proposal that it signifies) is one of the most important moments in someone''s life and I want to make sure I get it right. That''s why I''m here for some help. Considering your daughter just got married, please try to understand where a guy might be coming from.


    DiamondExpert: Thanks for explaining that diamond cutting doesn''t apply to sapphires. Hue, tone, and saturation all look good. Definitely doesn''t seem to be any zoning and no windowing. They just don''t seem to sparkle as much as I thought they would but maybe that''s normal with sapphires. That''s what I''m trying to find out. Thanks for the help in pointing me in the right direction even if you agreed in your second post with Garry! [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
     
  26. galeteia
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by galeteia » Oct 28, 2006
    ff, I know nothing about gems, but I''d like to say that it''s nice to see a guy put as much attention and care into the ring as a girl could wish. That kind of attentiveness is heartwarming, so good for you!

    Also, good on you for asking for the ''experts'' to weigh in, because that''s what these forums are about; increasing and sharing knowledge about the gem industry. I had no clue the cut standards were so different between diamonds and coloured gems either, so I would have asked too.

    Sounds like you''ve gotten some good leads, and I hope you''ll post pictures of the finished ring, because with all this effort you''re making I''m sure it will be a beauty.

    All the best!
     
  27. pricescope
    Ideal_Rock

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    by pricescope » Oct 29, 2006
    Agreed, ff you were going to have much lighter blue and that probably the source of your disappointment. You just need to find the right color.
     
  28. widget
    Ideal_Rock

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    by widget » Oct 29, 2006
    Hi, ff...

    I just had to look up this fabulous quote from Richard Hughes, a HIGHLY regarded colored gem expert, and in my opinion the Poet Laureate of the industry. I found it here: http://www.pricescope.com/forum/colored-stones/help-with-tanzanite-please-t40853.html=

    "Linda, put down the revolver. Don't shoot yourself or the jeweler.

    Colored stones are not diamonds, they are not made to be examined under loupes, they are made to bo viewed naked, with the bare ocular tools given us by the Creators.

    Your trepidation is understandable. Raised on a steady diet of diamond propaganda, most people react in a similar fashion. You get scared seeing anything that resembles a "flaw".

    Colored stones are more sensitive, more delicate. Their beauty is an acquired taste....put any decent colored stone side-by-side next to a colored diamond and you will be singing the praises of the kinder, softer, gentler substance. It's about the color.

    The lesson? When it comes to color, pick up the revolver, and shoot the loupe...."

    [​IMG]widget
     
  29. widget
    Ideal_Rock

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    by widget » Oct 29, 2006
    While it''s really unfair to judge colored stones from photographs, it seems to me that as beautiful and richly saturated your sapphires look, they seem to be lacking a bit in brightness, lifeliness.

    I found these at palagems...too big for your purposes, but they appear, anyway, to be deeply saturated, but brighter stones than yours.

    I''ll be curious to hear what Wink has to say...

    widget

    PS: Garry.....having a bad day?

    7334.jpg
     
  30. C Smith
    Shiny_Rock

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    by C Smith » Oct 29, 2006
    ff, you mentioned being concerned about the color as viewed from below the stones. As a rule, colored stones are assessed for color face-up so that is the criteria. The color from below is of little to no consequence. The sapphires in the images you posted look overly dark for my tastes on my monitor, but that is a personal opinion and not a disqualifier by any means. Colored stones tend to have more "character" than diamonds due to the impurities which give them their color and so a few inclusions and color zoning are much more commonly seen. Again, that is fairly normal although truly fine gems with amazing clarity can be found, they are pricey. All that said, if these stones bother you now and you are not enthusiastic about owning them, you never will be. Get what you really want and don''t settle for less. [​IMG]
     
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