Ruby Treatment Question (Can anyone help?)

[VividRed]

Hi @tapio

I like the ruby you posted, nice color and shape! I think heat with minor residues is the new norm for non-untreated Burmese rubies (there are actually very few which are heated only and at low temperature).

Still, simple low heat is not equal to heat with residues (which typically indicated high temperature hear). This has to be factored in the price and I honestly would not pay what the seller is asking - have you tried to negotiate? I think 4-5k is closer to a fair online-retail price. Anything above that can only be justified by you should you decide that this is the ruby you want.

Good luck and keep us posted!

 

[tapio]

Hi @tapio

I like the ruby you posted, nice color and shape! I think heat with minor residues is the new norm for non-untreated Burmese rubies (there are actually very few which are heated only and at low temperature).

Still, simple low heat is not equal to heat with residues (which typically indicated high temperature hear). This has to be factored in the price and I honestly would not pay what the seller is asking - have you tried to negotiate? I think 4-5k is closer to a fair online-retail price. Anything above that can only be justified by you should you decide that this is the ruby you want.

Good luck and keep us posted!

Thank you, I like the colour and shape as well. I had a friend, who is a gemologist and a reputable auction house appraiser, get back to me about the stone. In 2011 he did the appraisal for $7,500 for the stone. The jeweler thought that with the rise in prices of rubies he should be able to get $8,500. The original appraiser got back to me with the knowledge of the GIA cert and stated: A lot has changed since I made that appraisal. At auction, at this time, I would suggest a pre-auction estimate of $1,000 - $1,500. It would seem that the gentleman from Master Gem is pretty much right on with the price of that stone. My opinion, after all of this great knowledge from so many of you, is the following. Times have changed and so has the value of stones--some for better and some for worse. I feel for the jeweler that likely paid more than $1,500 for the stone around 2010. Nevertheless, there is no reason why I need to be caught in the "tacking and trimming to social winds of change" when it comes to rubies. In spite of its beauty, just knowing that the price would go down by 85%-90% immediately after I purchased the stone makes absolutely no business or emotional sense. I would have a very difficult time just living with the decision to throw away that kind of money. It's no one's fault. I don't blame anyone. I do believe it is incumbent upon each buyer of a stone(s) to really do their own research well to come to their own conclusions and peace of mind. I have not relied solely on Pricescopers to make my decision. I'm fortunate I have other trusted people from which I can seek counsel. Only with all the counsel have I been able to make a decision that I feel comfortable with which I can live. I wish untreated rubies of fine colour and quality were available for less cost, but they are not. I hope all of you come to such firm decisions with whatever you decide to purchase or not purchase. One of my friends, not from Pricescope, told me {name} finding a good quality Burmese Ruby that is unheated is like searching for "hen's teeth". He was right. In the end, I feel okay, because when that ruby and GIA report came back from NYC I had also sent four other rubies for certification. The four other rubies came back as: Burma (Myanmar), Vivid Red, "Pigeon's Blood". I've enclosed one report to Pricescoper's to see. The moral of the story is: it takes time and hard work to do your homework, but do it; seek all the counsel you can to make an informed decision, find people you trust, then do more homework and lastly remember even the best people can make mistakes. Always allow for a jeweler, dealer, gemologist, or an individual to save face. Be kind. Don't point fingers, move on, some things are just far beyond our control. There is great wisdom in knowing the difference between what we can change and what we can not change. Thank you Pricescoper's--you have been great. Cheers, Tapio

 

[LD]

@tapio I think the question here is what would it sell for as a 1.49ct heated/treated Ruby. Would it sell for $8.5k? That seems like a very very high price to me and it would be a much better price at 50% lower. At the end of the day, are you happy with the stone? Does it "speak" to you? Do you love it enough to ignore the price? If you answer yes to all of those questions then forget how much it might be worth and just enjoy your gem x

 

[minousbijoux]

Tapio: thank you for sharing the information about your appraiser friend. While I knew that "minor residue" would impact value, it is still shocking to hear that the value of the ruby went from $7,500 down to $1,500 (I'm assuming the disclosure of the minor treatment caused the loss in value). I was thinking the hit would be something like 25%-50% for minor treatment because, like @lilmosun, I was thinking it was fairly prevalent.

 

[PieAreSquared]

So I understand, when he said: "At auction, at this time, I would suggest a pre-auction estimate of $1,000 - $1,500" does he mean as an opening bid? Or that is what he feels it is worth, full stop?

 

[VividRed]

So I understand, when he said: "At auction, at this time, I would suggest a pre-auction estimate of $1,000 - $1,500" does he mean as an opening bid? Or that is what he feels it is worth, full stop?

Excellent question - I would be a happy camper to buy it for $1’000

 

[2Neezers]

Since there are questions about prices for rubies that are heated with minor residues, I thought I would share what I was told by the AGL rep regarding the ruby I mentioned up-thread in post #9.
When I was discussing ruby treatments with the rep at AGL, I mentioned that I had paid $1,000 for my 1.45ct ruby that ended up being heated with residues. She told me that what I had paid was in line with wholesale pricing for the stone (this was in late 2018 ). I have no idea what wholesale to retail markup is for colored stones, but I just thought I would mention the pricing info as a reference.

I’m so glad everything worked out for you @tapio .Thanks for sharing your wise words of advice .

 

[tapio]

So I understand, when he said: "At auction, at this time, I would suggest a pre-auction estimate of $1,000 - $1,500" does he mean as an opening bid? Or that is what he feels it is worth, full stop?

It means the bidding would begin at $1k and the final sale price would likely be in between $1 - $1.5k. If it sells for more great, but don't count on it. Worth of a stone varies. I do not want to be confrontational about nomenclature, but the word "worth" is not clear. If you mean retail, wholesale or at auction for immediate disposal, etc. I'm not sure. I think what you mean is this what one could expect to receive in dollars for a stone like this? I am not an appraiser--that is why I have friend I trust who are in the know. What the price would mean to me as a seller of the stone is the stone would likely sell at auction for this range and then one must take off fees. I hope this helps.

 

[tapio]

Since there are questions about prices for rubies that are heated with minor residues, I thought I would share what I was told by the AGL rep regarding the ruby I mentioned up-thread in post #9.
When I was discussing ruby treatments with the rep at AGL, I mentioned that I had paid $1,000 for my 1.45ct ruby that ended up being heated with residues. She told me that what I had paid was in line with wholesale pricing for the stone (this was in late 2018 ). I have no idea what wholesale to retail markup is for colored stones, but I just thought I would mention the pricing info as a reference.

I’m so glad everything worked out for you @tapio .Thanks for sharing your wise words of advice .

Dear 2Neezers, this price lines up with what I was told by the auction gentleman and with the other post someone made. Thank you for your input. I had a feeling people were watching this post to see what would ensue. I am happy with my decision and how I came to it.

 

[tapio]

Hi @tapio

I like the ruby you posted, nice color and shape! I think heat with minor residues is the new norm for non-untreated Burmese rubies (there are actually very few which are heated only and at low temperature).

Still, simple low heat is not equal to heat with residues (which typically indicated high temperature hear). This has to be factored in the price and I honestly would not pay what the seller is asking - have you tried to negotiate? I think 4-5k is closer to a fair online-retail price. Anything above that can only be justified by you should you decide that this is the ruby you want.

Good luck and keep us posted!

Thank you. You could well be correct with your 4-5 k retail. I personally am not willing to pay that in this economy with the knowledge I have obtained with treatments. There is a good reason rubies are expensive--they are very rare gemstones in their untreated state. They have always been that way. That's why Kings and Queens and rulers were the only ones that could afford these rare stones.

 

[VividRed]

Thank you. You could well be correct with your 4-5 k retail. I personally am not willing to pay that in this economy with the knowledge I have obtained with treatments. There is a good reason rubies are expensive--they are very rare gemstones in their untreated state. They have always been that way. That's why Kings and Queens and rulers were the only ones that could afford these rare stones.

Check some of my posts on rubies, I’ve been on the hunt for over a year and found a few untreated beauties