Roseanne cancelled

[ksinger]

A standard clause in most employment contracts is that anything the employee does that misrepresents the company or violates company policies is grounds for immediate dismissal (I stated that more broadly but you get the gist). If that clause appears in Barr's contract, there was no need for additional dialog. ABC's lawyers would advise against a more substantive response to a situation that has a probability of leading to a lawsuit.

As to the bolded part, I used to believe promoting dialogue was the answer to a whole lot of societal ills. That was pre-trump. At present, in regard to trump's base, I think Leonard Pitts, Jr. hit the nail on the head:
http://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/opn-columns-blogs/leonard-pitts-jr/article210497509.html

Yes, I've spent my whole life around the people who are Drumpf's base. I understand them as well as I will ever need to. They are pretty impervious to having an actual discussion that trades real ideas or facts. And Pitts is correct - they need to be defeated now. No more chatter, they just need to be defeated.

 

[Matata]

While we are asking about hyposcrisy and different sets of rules for left and right, why not compare leftist Samantha Bee to rightist White House staffer Kelly Sadler who said that (war hero and former POW) Senator John McCain was irrelevant since he was "dying anyway"?

Samantha Bee should not have called Ivanka a cunt imo. It is difficult enough for women to overcome misogyny, discrimination, and harassment heaped upon us by men. Women should not add to the fracas. She could have called her a feckless twit and still delivered her point.

 

[Matata]

He once called Hillary Clinton the same word

And I bet he didn't ask any of his minions to change their shirts....

 

[Dee*Jay]

For those of you trying to engage in reasonable discourse with DF, why are you feeding the troll?

Next thing you know we'll be talking about Hillary's emails again...

 

[ksinger]

For those of you trying to engage in reasonable discourse with DF, why are you feeding the troll?

Next thing you know we'll be talking about Hillary's emails again...

Definitely the PS King of Whataboutism and Deflection Attempts, yes.

 

[AGBF]

Samantha Bee should not have called Ivanka a cunt imo. It is difficult enough for women to overcome misogyny, discrimination, and harassment heaped upon us by men. Women should not add to the fracas. She could have called her a feckless twit and still delivered her point.

I didn't know Samantha Bee had called her a "cunt". I never heard what dreadful thing it was that the wicked witch Samantha Bee had said about the angelic Ivanka Trump, just that she had said it and then apologized for it.

However, I agree with you that "cunt" shouldn't have been used for Ivanka. Because I don't like it being used for any woman.

I disagree with you on "feckless twit", however. I am not saying that it doesn't fit; it just doesn't have enough punch for my taste. Can't we come up with something stronger without becoming misogynistic? Maybe we should start a contest.

AGBF

 

[AGBF]

For those of you trying to engage in reasonable discourse with DF, why are you feeding the troll?

I can't stop myself!!!

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,

I'm going to address this DF idiocy in another way. I wonder how and what DF would think if people started posting diamond specs that were false. What if an ideal diamond was whatever someone said it was. We don't need facts. If you think your diamond is an ideal cut just say it is , and no one should challenge it. Yes, lets go that way.

For me, I usually don't care if you are Republican or democrat. For most of my life we existed peacefully together. I vote for either party- depending. DF you have shown me what true ignorance is. You must not care at all about truth. Your comprehension is limited. This is not Rep vs dem. Important life long Republicans have left the party. You really sound stupid. I have no respect for you.

This is the comment of the day. I apologize to those I may have offended(not DF), but I will not take it back.
Annette

 

[Matata]

I didn't know Samantha Bee had called her a "cunt". I never heard what dreadful thing it was that the wicked witch Samantha Bee had said about the angelic Ivanka Trump, just that she had said it and then apologized for it.

Although I didn't like Bee using that word to describe Ivanka, I totally enjoyed a tweet by someone who said: "Ivanka can't possibly be a cunt, she lacks the depth and warmth." I agree with that assessment.

 

[mrs-b]

Although I didn't like Bee using that word to describe Ivanka, I totally enjoyed a tweet by someone who said: "Ivanka can't possibly be a cunt, she lacks the depth and warmth." I agree with that assessment.

Sally Field.

 

[redwood66]

Both Bee and Barr are low class pigs.

 

[Calliecake]

Samantha Bee could have gotten her point across without calling her a
C$&t. It’s unbelievable that Ivanka didn’t realize how her tweet would come across. She knows its been widely reported that 1,450 children were taken from their parents and are unaccounted for. The tweet showed she is a heartless, soulless human being who shows no empathy or compassion for the parents of these children. Their children are LOST.

Sally Field tweeted “I like Samantha Bee a lot but she is flat wrong to call Ivanka a cunt. Cunts are powerful, beautiful, nurturing and honest.”

 

[Arcadian]

For those of you trying to engage in reasonable discourse with DF, why are you feeding the troll?

Next thing you know we'll be talking about Hillary's emails again...

 

[Dancing Fire]

Hi,

This is the comment of the day. I apologize to those I may have offended(not DF), but I will not take it back.
Annette

No problem, b/c I have thick skins.

 

[Dancing Fire]

For those of you trying to engage in reasonable discourse with DF, why are you feeding the troll?

Next thing you know we'll be talking about Hillary's emails again...

Nahhh,let's talk about Russia and the $120K hooker. Anyone who doesn't agree with the far left is a troll?. Good job liberals. with silencing the 3 conservatives who used to post on this thread. I guess there is no freedom of speech after all?.

 

[canuk-gal]

HI:

I shouldn't like to be called stupid, an ape or a cunt.

This is a most graceless time. Beleaguering that name calling is de rigueur.

not so cheery--Sharon

 

[AGBF]

I shouldn't like to be called stupid, an ape or a cunt.

This is a most graceless time. Beleaguering that name calling is de rigueur.

not so cheery--Sharon

Graceless? Gee, Sharon. I wonder why you would think so. You're so eccentric. When my emotionally disturbed daughter gets angry and calls me similar things, I am always so pleased. One of her favorite names for me is an "obese transvestite". (I am actually closer to being anorectic than obese, but what the heck. And the "transvestite" refers to my very short hair and therefore has to be correct. These facts are for those who have "enquiring minds".)

But I am being too self-centered. Everyone deserves a bit of this fun!

Deb

 

[the_mother_thing]

Name-calling - regardless of how vulgar or ‘clean’ the name is, and whether it’s directed at a man or a woman - reflects the character (or lack thereof) of the person saying it. It’s just another form of bullying. If you (collective) can’t defend your position or make your point without making it personal and calling the person names and/or denigrating them, then you probably shouldn’t be trying to convince anyone of or defending anything. If you choose to resort to or defend any name-calling, you just perpetuate the precedent & behavior and make it socially acceptable.

 

[redwood66]

Name-calling - regardless of how vulgar or ‘clean’ the name is, and whether it’s directed at a man or a woman - reflects the character (or lack thereof) of the person saying it. It’s just another form of bullying. If you (collective) can’t defend your position or make your point without making it personal and calling the person names and/or denigrating them, then you probably shouldn’t be trying to convince anyone of or defending anything. If you choose to resort to or defend any name-calling, you just perpetuate the precedent & behavior and make it socially acceptable.

I agree with that and add all of this.

http://thefederalist.com/2018/06/01...ail&utm_term=0_cfcb868ceb-baa3197ecf-83959769

Comedy's unfunny ladies are making nasty people of us all. We can do better.
...Growing up in New York, we knew how to quickly shut down crazy comments: “If everyone else were jumping off the Brooklyn Bridge, would you do it too?” we would disapprovingly ask whenever another kid proposed doing something foolish or morally questionable. It’s an apt question and one that I’d like to put to many Americans today.

In an era when our president has bragged about his adultery and is known for using vulgar language, we all have a choice to make — elected officials, everyday Americans, and comedians alike. Will we imitate the least laudable parts of Donald Trump’s character, or will we carve out our own path?


This week has been a real low point, culturally speaking, watching the public debate about Roseanne Barr’s infamous tweet and Samantha Bee’s immigration bit smearing Ivanka Trump. It’s all been a searing reminder that our culture regularly showcases the complete opposite of what I hope to teach my own children.

Civility is regularly and repeatedly dying a painful death in our public square. But I want to do my part to ensure that manners and decency make a comeback, because these are values I teach my daughters each day. The outside world may sneer at those values as anachronistic, but everything is so much uglier without such niceties.

Many things that used to be considered gauche or even beyond the pale are now justified. Yet whose mother ever allowed her to get away with something because a naughty friend (or frenemy) did it first? Certainly not mine. I can’t be the only one who was raised to be civil to others, and yet if ever one wanted to see Darwinism or Hobbesian philosophy in action, today’s politics and pop culture exemplify their brutishness.

On the pop culture front, the women of comedy have been leaders, charging breathlessly toward the lowest common denominator. Last spring, Kathy Griffin made headlines for posing with a likeness of a decapitated Trump head, and no, she’s still not sorry.


Then this past week, Barr and Bee engaged in a public contest to be the most vile, hurling racial and sexual epithets at women whose political affiliations they despise. It’s as if no one ever explained to Bee or Barr that it’s possible to criticize another woman’s political views without attacking her personally, including her appearance.

It’s also possible to dislike something someone says and to say so without slandering them, something like a corollary to the Christian idea of hating the sin, while still loving the sinner. Humans are complex beings, and we are more than a sum total of our political views.

Come on now, ladies. Using coarse language isn’t creative or funny. It isn’t even edgy anymore. It’s intellectually lazy.

Barr isn’t new around here, and neither is the long and ugly history of her “ape” comment. Bee announces she’s speaking as a mother before swearing like a sailor, joking about incest, and encouraging an Orthodox Jewish woman to tart it up (while pushing for Bee’s preferred policy changes)?


For all the talk of women being victimized by men as part of the national #MeToo conversation — which has brought a mountain of reprehensible, and even illegal, behavior to light — these “funny ladies” seem committed to showing that women can hold our own in maligning and abusing our own sex. Of course, invectives are only hurled at women with wrong-think, as defined by the comedienne telling the unfunny joke.

There is no recognition that the target is a human being and might be someone’s wife or mother. On the one hand, it’s easier to hurl invectives at someone you’ve already dehumanized. On the other, it’s hard to be funny when you so blatantly despise the target of your joke.

“Joking” that turns political adversaries into enemies is also bad for society’s cohesion and democracy’s continued functioning, further pushing us all into perpetually warring political tribes. We may not agree about particular public policies, but it shouldn’t be hard to remember that this land belongs to all of us.

What ever happened to comediennes who made us laugh? Or think? Those are the funny people we need, especially now.

 

[House Cat]

It’s ridiculous to compare using the word C*nt with being a racist. There is no comparison.

 

[redwood66]

It’s ridiculous to compare using the word C*nt with being a racist. There is no comparison.

Who is comparing? They are both disgusting and not the least bit funny.

BTW I was in FO a couple days ago visiting g'ma and thought of you. You are there right? I forgot how hot it could be.

 

[the_mother_thing]

It’s ridiculous to compare using the word C*nt with being a racist. There is no comparison.

It's not ridiculous. And it's not a matter of comparing them - both are equally disgusting and offensive.

 

[House Cat]

It's not ridiculous. And it's not a matter of comparing them - both are equally disgusting and offensive.

I disagree. There is no insult on the planet that is equally offensive to a chosen belief that incites the murder of innocent people.

 

[perry]

by the_mother_thing » Today at 11:36 AM Name-calling - regardless of how vulgar or ‘clean’ the name is, and whether it’s directed at a man or a woman - reflects the character (or lack thereof) of the person saying it. It’s just another form of bullying. If you (collective) can’t defend your position or make your point without making it personal and calling the person names and/or denigrating them, then you probably shouldn’t be trying to convince anyone of or defending anything. If you choose to resort to or defend any name-calling, you just perpetuate the precedent & behavior and make it socially acceptable.

I agree with that and add all of this.

http://thefederalist.com/2018/06/01...ail&utm_term=0_cfcb868ceb-baa3197ecf-83959769

I in part disagree with your dislike of name calling - the reason is that there are good names and bad names. Name calling can be used to build people up - or to tear them down. It is not necessarily a form of bullying. I think you are only focused on one side of name calling...

I have no problem calling people names that build them up or give them something to live up too...

"Inspired" "Honorable" "Caring" "Achiever" "Tolerant" and many many more (I could probably spend hours creating a full list).

Now perhaps the person is not truly there... but; having someone publicly label them as such helps pull them to improve in that area... as people try to live up to the expectations of others that they have been given that they accept as even partially accurate (so give them a positive expectation).

Using names to build people up and help them achieve positive goals in life is to be encouraged... we don't do enough of it (and few of us have many people who have done much of it for us).

Using names to tear a person down (and derogatory name-calling fits in this grouping) is to be discouraged and minimized. In part as people will try to live up to any expectation that they have been given that they accept as even partially accurate.

Life has taught me that nothing is 100% except death (and taxes is close). So I am not going to say that there are not exceptional cases where use of names to tear down might not be appropriate to that situation. But, where they exist, those should be clearly identifiable exceptions for rare situations that are outside of societies norms. To put a personal scale on this: It's kinda like the "survival situation" clause in me and my wife's wedding vows (We don't expect it to happen, but if it does: each party is released from certain expectations and they are to do what they need to do to best insure their survival so they can return as safe as possible some day: It's an abnormal situation).

I fully agree that how you use names reflects on your character. Are you someone who generally builds people up, or someone who generally tears people down. People will notice that... Names can be used to make positive points as well as negative ones...

How many positive names have you used and how often? One of the things I was shown about a year ago is that it makes a lot of difference if you do at least 2 Acts of Random Kindness a day. Stop to help someone, say Hi! and give them a complement about something, make them smile, etc. (many possibilities). Sometimes that leads to a conversation... sometimes a friendship. But, every interaction leaves 2 people feeling better about themselves that day... Do that every day for a month and extending for years... and you'll probably find that you are leading a happier more fulfilled life... and have a better view of the world.

I 100% encourage the use of calling and labeling people with positive names... and much of what you said about the issues with calling people's names just does not apply if they are positive names...

Perry

 

[redwood66]

@perry of course positive references and names can be good but that is not what Barr and Bee used which is the the topic of this discussion. I am a bit surprised you would think this needs to be said.

 

[AGBF]

BTW I was in FO a couple days ago visiting g'ma and thought of you. You are there right? I forgot how hot it could be.

Where is FO? I felt so ignorant that I googled it, but Google did not tell me .

On a similar note, I spent three days in Maine with my best friend (and two travelling) so I was away for five days over the Memorial Day weekend. I went through the Portland, Maine area and thought of MariaD and Kate. I really have to get your phone numbers, ladies. Every time I go through there I want to call you!

By the way, did anyone in Maine see this moon? It was the night of the full moon, I think May 28, 2018. I think we took this photo in Camden. We were driving back from from the North (i.e. Downeast).



Deb/AGBF

 

[redwood66]

Hi @AGBF I think I should let @House Cat say rather than tell you myself. I don't want to assume for her.

Pretty moon! I also missed seeing Maria and Kate when I was in Maine. Too short a stay.

 

[Arkteia]

It’s ridiculous to compare using the word C*nt with being a racist. There is no comparison.

Exactly.

And while I think "c@nt" is low-class, it is just profanity. Roseanne's tweet had several separately obnoxious parts in it, culminating in being racist and also, in the typical Trumpesque style, going after looks. Which I hate because while people can disagree with behaviors and opinions, looks are something that are neither merit nor fault. So I always considered it low-class bullying and nothing more.

What is happening now is very interesting. Roseanne must suffer from some personality disorder because she blames everyone else but refuses to accept own fault. We have Ambien, we have Obamas, we have her mental issues. She should have just said, "I wrote a horrible tweet. I am sorry. I wish I could take my words back", and it would have been honest and straightforward.

I have not been following Twitter since 2016, but if I am correct, Valerie Jarrett is keeping silent during this whole tempest? If so, what a smart woman!

 

[Calliecake]

I find it incredibly sad that 1/2 the country holds comedians to a higher standard than we hold the president. Roseanne’s comments were racist. She didn’t tell a joke. She made a racist statement. Racist comments should be unaccetable to ALL of us.

Samantha Bee’s were awful in a completely different way. Ivanka Trump knew what message she was sending to the Trump base when she sent her tweet. I took Samantha Bee’s comment as outrage to Ivanka’s tweet. Children being separated from their parents and now lost should be cause ALL of us to feel outrage. She could have done so without using the word she used.

Unfortunately we now live in a country that feels decency doesn’t matter.
This president set this tone for our country.

Melania better get to work on her Be Best campaign.

 

[Maria D]

I disagree with you on "feckless twit", however. I am not saying that it doesn't fit; it just doesn't have enough punch for my taste. Can't we come up with something stronger without becoming misogynistic? Maybe we should start a contest.

AGBF

How about "feckless piece of ass?" Then Samantha Bee wouldn't have used anything that her daddy hadn't gone along with someone else (Howard Stern) calling her in the past.