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Ring recut or trade in?

Discussion in 'RockyTalky' started by quicksvo, Dec 16, 2004.

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  1. quicksvo
    Rough_Rock

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    by quicksvo » Dec 16, 2004
    I inherited an engagement ring a few months ago. It was accompanied by an appraisal from the jewelry store that it was purchased from that had the value at $18,000. Unfortunately, this appraisal was a photocopy and not very legible. I had it appraised at another trusted jeweler (unfortunately not local to me) who appraised the stone itself for $14,500. The details are (from the 2 appraisals): 3.0 (or 3.02) ct, L (or K) color, VVS2, European Round cut, 61.9% depth, 57% table, med girdle, 9.2mmx9.18mmx5.7mm. The second jeweler that appraised it did not remove it from the setting, hence the differences I think. He also said that it was an old style cut and would sparkle much better and perhaps have better color with a re-cut.

    My questions are: Would it be worth getting this stone recut? If so, where would I go to have that done? Secondly, I am looking for an engagement ring and would be interested in trading this ring/stone in towards something perhaps a little smaller, but of better quality. Is this something that jewelry stores will do? Thanks.
     
  2. Greentree
    Rough_Rock

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    by Greentree » Dec 16, 2004
    I think the first thing to consider is if this is a family heirloom. If it belonged to Grandma or Great-Grandma, maybe it should be left as-is as a keep-sake. Then you can pass it on to your own children. It depends on how sentimental you are.

    If this is an Old European cut, there are people out there who really like them. They like the cut, even if it isn''t particularily brilliant, because it''s old school and because it''s different.

    If it really looks dead and you''re convinced a re-cut would result in a lively, beautiful diamond, then there are several ways to go. This can generate a lot of discussion. This is a very competitive market, after all, but here''s my take on it.

    My feeling is if you''re going to recut a diamond and incur the weight loss that accompanys doing that, you might as well have it cut to the highest standards available. In my case I sent my diamond to the EightStar Diamond Company''s custom cutting service and had it made into an EightStar. It was a pricey proposition to be sure, but the diamond I got back was just about as perfect as you can get.

    I''m sure others will show how you can clean up the diamond with a lot less weight loss and a lot less expense. However, in any case, you are going to end up under 2 carats. You''ll just have to decide what it is you really want. Not many people out there own a 2+ carat EightStar.
     
  3. Iceman
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by Iceman » Dec 16, 2004
    Recut [​IMG] Jewelers that say that usally have no back ground on diamonds. That stlye of cutting ear marks the time period the diamond was cut in. If you recut the diamond you loose that identity and time period.

    Tell them to take a hike! The Old Euorpean cut was started around 1890 when they envented a power burting machine that could round off the diamonds , this style lasted into the 1916 and a little after. These diamonds were also dug from South Americia , the African mines were not started yet. The cut holds a lot of history. The old european cut has its own style. Instead of pin fire that you see in modern cuts you get more of a broad flash.


    Please dont cut the diamond


    tell that jeweler he should look for other employment.

    The Iceman
     
  4. valeria101
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by valeria101 » Dec 16, 2004
    If the stone is already nice and brilliant, what would recut do ? Does this have special meaning, lime make the stone "new" for use as e-ring ? That is one personal decision and it doesn't have to do much with what the stone looks like now: tops or less than.

    The European cut style do not limit quality in any way: there are more or less brilliant or appealing stones among these as there are among modern brilliants.

    It shouldn't be hard to ask an expert opinion about what a recut can achieve and at what cost (not really the fee, but the loss of weight).

    From what you say, this stone has modern proportions to begin with (61% depth and 57% table could be of a modern brillaint as well). So there should not be tremendous loss for remodeling.

    I wouldn't start with Eight Star though - unless they agree to discuss options with you. It is well possible that allot of improvement in brilliance can be achieved adapting the harts and arrows proportions to the stone's outline, and Eight star is unlikely to sway from their model to achieve a balanced outcome for this diamond in particular.

    Just my 0.2, of course.
     
  5. denverappraiser
    Ideal_Rock
    Trade

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    by denverappraiser » Dec 16, 2004
    The only reason I can see to recut such a stone is if you are trying to erase the history and convert it from Grandma's stone into your stone. This, of course, has more to do with what you thought of Grandma than the merits of the stone or the recutting results. Most people actually like the idea of a family heirloom and these things become even more valuable when you pass them on to your own decendants. I say leave it alone and treasure it for what it is.

    Neil Beaty
    Independent Appraisals in Denver
     
  6. quicksvo
    Rough_Rock

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    by quicksvo » Dec 17, 2004
    Thank you all for the input. The ring doesn''t hold much sentimental value, it came from my uncle who only had if for a couple of years. I have 2 problems with it, and I think this is what the jeweler was talking about concerning the recut. First, it just doesn''t have that much sparkle/fire. Second, and this one is hard to really tell because it is set in a yellow gold ring, is that it does look a little too yellow. Other than that, it is a really nice stone. I would want to put it in a platinum or white gold setting and am worried that it would look too yellow. If I don''t get it recut, do some jewelry stores accept trades towards another stone, and would this be a good or bad route to take?
     
  7. moremoremore
    Ideal_Rock

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    by moremoremore » Dec 17, 2004
    WHile I have no idea what I'm talking about....wouldn't a stone like that keep more value uncut. L color might be common in antique cuts...people looking for modern brilliant stones may shy away from the color, while antique lovers know it comes with the territory. I would leave it alone. I would contact an antique store or even fay cullen re: consignment (if they are trustworthy)
     
  8. denverappraiser
    Ideal_Rock
    Trade

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    by denverappraiser » Dec 17, 2004
    Quick,

    Recutting can be a tricky business and it involves some rather exotic skills and tools. Very few jewelers do this in house. A good cut can increase the apparent color of a stone by a fair amount and it definitely increases the light return and other things. Most jewelers can hook you up with a cutter or can broker the services of one. There are several who are regulars on this forum that are well regarded. Paul at Infinity Diamonds and Brian at Whiteflash come to mind in addition to the already mentioned people at Eightstar.

    Most jewelers are not anxious to trade in stone that they didn’t sell. This is for a variety of reasons but mostly it’s about the money. The whole point of merchants is to buy merchandise cheaply and sell for more. For some reason customers seem to find this process difficult when both of these are combined together into a single transaction. The store will want to buy your stone at a price where they can resell it at a higher profit than they would expect if they were to buy it from their regular suppliers (who have better terms and better selection than you). When they get into this conversation with the customers it causes substantial angst, which is not good for business. The jeweler don’t get the buy, and they don’t get the sale either! To make matters worse, the customers wanders off feeling like the store is trying to cheat them and now their precious reputation is damaged. This sets them up for a lose-lose-lose kind of deal. Many smart jewelers decide that it isn’t worth the risk for the potential profits and they simply decline to buy anything from their customers that isn’t already part of their trade-up program.

    Neil Beaty
    Independent Appraisals in Denver
     
  9. glitterata
    Ideal_Rock

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    by glitterata » Dec 17, 2004
    Is it in its original setting? If so, the whole package might be more valuable as an antique, no?

    I am one of the many people who love old cut diamonds and hate to see them recut.

    Also, I agree with Moremoremore that someone looking for an OEC is more likely to consider an L than someone looking for a round brilliant. A 3 carat stone will show more color than a smaller stone. I wouldn't want to set such a big, low-color stone in platinum, myself. Maybe you should look at a large, modern L in platinum before you decide, to see if you're going to like it. If you don't like the look of the color, maybe you should sell it and buy a smaller, whiter stone.

    If I were you, I would consult Dave Atlas, who posts on this board. He's an appraiser who also has a wholesale business buying old cut stones and selling them to dealers. Maybe he'd even want to make you a good offer on your stone. Maybe he'd have advice about whether it even needs to be recut. No matter what, he's a real good guy, someone trustworthy.
     
  10. quicksvo
    Rough_Rock

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    by quicksvo » Dec 17, 2004
    The stone is set in a basic yellow gold Tiffany solitaire style ring, so it isn''t necessarily an antique, or anything special. I do know which shop it was purchased from, although I know nothing about that jeweler, so I could go talk to them and see if they would be willing to do a trade-up.

    I understand why dealers wouldn''t want to trade in something that didn''t come from their store. In a round about way, it is similar to the trade in values on cars where the dealer has to make some money on the deal.
     
  11. valeria101
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by valeria101 » Dec 17, 2004
    You may want to take a look down here [​IMG]

    It is not really feasible to show diamond color grades on screen, but here's a large old cut M color round on white meta (LINK)l and a 3 carat M color (LINK) recut to ideal standards by "Paul Antwerp" (avatar). Yours will have sensibly less tint: there is more difference between L and M than between D and F...

    Just two examples, for brainstorming sake [​IMG]

    IMO, it is worth considering both the trade-in and the recut with competing offers on the table.
     
  12. quicksvo
    Rough_Rock

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    by quicksvo » Dec 21, 2004
    Thanks again for the input. Here is a picture of the ring. After looking at the rings valeria101 posted and this ring in some different lighting, it may not be as bad as I thought. My best option may be to have it removed from the setting, measured/appraised again and see how it would look with platinum or white gold.

    DSCN0609.JPG
     
  13. quicksvo
    Rough_Rock

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    by quicksvo » Dec 21, 2004
    Here is another picture. I tried 2 cameras and neither one liked to focus well enough to get a good picture.

    DSCN0613.JPG
     
  14. quicksvo
    Rough_Rock

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    by quicksvo » Dec 21, 2004
    And one more.

    DSCN0610.JPG
     
  15. Hest88
    Ideal_Rock

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    by Hest88 » Dec 21, 2004
    If you end up recutting a 3 carat OEC, please don''t tell me! [​IMG]
     
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