Rich blue Montana sapphire - thoughts? Tips? Newbie to colored stones!

[Cerulean]

Maybe also ask which lab he is sending it too? Some of the srilankan ones are quite good, like gemalogical institute of colombo and emteem but others I would feel less comfortable with.

Congrats on finding something you love .

Thank you! I will ask him!

 

[Lilith112]

Yes I will ask about returns and anything else with the stone tmrw - good idea. Thanks for the advice - good to know you had no issues - would love to see your pad!

My pad:





Good luck, I hope you love it! Check if you can get a Lotus Lab report for it. Last time, he waiver the additional USD300 since I was a first time customer.

 

[Cerulean]

My pad:





Good luck, I hope you love it! Check if you can get a Lotus Lab report for it. Last time, he waiver the additional USD300 since I was a first time customer.

Wow sooooo beautiful! I will ask him thank you

 

[qubitasaurus]

Should also say sometimes srilankan sellers seem to prioritize slightly differently -- I.e. they'll cut to maximize ct weight (even if that leaves the pavilion with some extra weight, or you end up with a natural somewhere in the girdle.), or they seem to cut a window into a darker stone to make it slightly lighter.

I think maybe embarking on this course, you should keep an open mind and not worry to much about PS rhetoric about what makes for a good or a bad precision cut stone. Those criteria would be super bad ones to apply to srilankan stones (as they may simply be optimizing over a different set of criteria which they feel leads to the best outcomes). They have a lot of experience so usually you can trust them to have made the best choices.

 

[Lilith112]

Wow sooooo beautiful! I will ask him thank you

Thank you! Echoing @qubitasaurus, I personally don't mind native cut gems; both of my sapphires are native cut. As long as the gem isn't overly windowed or cut too shallow-- granted, that's up to personal preference-- I don't mind it.

 

[Cerulean]

This is super helpful - I appreciate the clarification

I am totally open to native cut as far as I can tell! I feel a lot pickier about more standard precision cut for paler colors - but for the richer, saturated tones I don’t feel as strongly at all, as long as there is nothing glaring like a window that really detracts from the stone or something too wonky.

anything in this one that I should be mindful of in setting expectations?

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[qubitasaurus]

Yes I prefer my native cut stones over my precision cut ones. I have 3 native cut stones and they all glow in their own way (lol usually driven by fluorescence/inclusions).

I own two different pristine clean stones that look like they were cut in the US according to some standard perfectly executed design. But they dont glow as much, and I dont love them as much. Actually i tend to think they look like they would belong in the window of a Swarovski shop.

Should say that with srilankan vendors native cut doesn't just mean facet junctions not all meeting exactly -- it really could mean you could flip the stone over and realize the pavilion is very deep or a bit bloated. But they'll have made a choice that traded off the factors they thought were most important (I.e. colour when viewed face up, and size) against the stringent requirements for a precision/perfect cut. Just expect that a lot of what people say is good and bad here, wont be good criteria to assess your new stone on.

 

[Lilith112]

Yes I prefer my native cut stones over my precision cut ones. I have 3 native cut stones and they all glow in their own way (lol usually driven by fluorescence/inclusions).

I own two different pristine clean stones that look like they were cut in the US according to some standard perfectly executed design. But they dont glow as much, and I dont love them as much. Actually i tend to think they look like they would belong in the window of a Swarovski shop.

I think native cut has its own charm; both of mine have crazy sparkle & glow despite being native cut. To me, cutting matters more for diamonds since it can make the difference in terms of sparkle; but even then, lots of people prefer antique cuts so again, it's up to personal preference!

 

[qubitasaurus]

I think native cut has its own charm; both of mine have crazy sparkle & glow despite being native cut. To me, cutting matters more for diamonds since it can make the difference in terms of sparkle; but even then, lots of people prefer antique cuts so again, it's up to personal preference!

Yes but all other things being equal I would have rather had a precision cut -- for obvious reasons, optics will probably be a bit better, polish will probably be a bit better, bottom of the gem may be as precisely perfect as the top (not a big deal really as you never see them from the bottom once they are set). Some of this stuff you don't really even see without a penlight, a loupe and an unhealthy amount of obsession for details. So being overly worried about it doesn't make sense.

I find its a decent trade to let go of this stuff and accept you got a killer colour. In general I have observed that over time this is the only thing that gives me lasting satisfaction anyway. But this forum hosts some pretty diverse opinions on this topic, and there really isn't any right or wrong. So I understand that going this route can mean making a choice to be happy (and not be too worried about the very deep history of threads on this forum weighing in on this topic from both standpoints.).

 

[Cerulean]

I am one of those ladies that loves antique cut diamonds! I have a definitely less than perfect early round brilliant diamond ering and I love it. I think a native cut will be okay with me, especially for such a beautiful blue! I always have every intention of buying a precision cut stone one day...might be a sapphire, might not be!

He said there are very minor inclusions between the girdle and the edge of the table. He said the color overpowers them. The stone is in his office and he cant get more photos at tinge moment.

also looks like the US based retailer can’t liaise here - he doesn’t have a location near me and I’m guessing because he’s not making margin isn’t too interested in going out of his way...

he also said because travel is limited between cities - he’d send the stone to RGL or EGL - are either of those reputable enough labs to your knowledge?

 

[Lilith112]

I am one of those ladies that loves antique cut diamonds! I have a definitely less than perfect early round brilliant diamond ering and I love it. I think a native cut will be okay with me, especially for such a beautiful blue! I always have every intention of buying a precision cut stone one day...might be a sapphire, might not be!

He said there are very minor inclusions between the girdle and the edge of the table. He said the color overpowers them. The stone is in his office and he cant get more photos at tinge moment.

he also said because travel is limited between cities - he’d send the stone to RGL or EGL - are either of those reputable enough labs to your knowledge?

Could you ask him for close-up pictures? Also, what kind of inclusions are they? From my understanding, feather inclusions near the girdle can sometimes pose a challenge for jewelry setters.

RE: RGL/EGL, they're not the greatest or the worst, and it's up to you whether or not you want to wait for a stronger report like a Lotus/GRS report. Lotus Lab is located in Thailand, so you'll have to wait until the lockdown ends. If you're willing to take a bit of a chance, you could purchase it after it's been EGL/RGL certified, have it shipped to the U.S., then ship it to AGL for more authoritative testing.

 

[Cerulean]

Could you ask him for close-up pictures? Also, what kind of inclusions are they? From my understanding, feather inclusions near the girdle can sometimes pose a challenge for jewelry setters.

RE: RGL/EGL, they're not the greatest or the worst, and it's up to you whether or not you want to wait for a stronger report like a Lotus/GRS report. Lotus Lab is located in Thailand, so you'll have to wait until the lockdown ends. If you're willing to take a bit of a chance, you could purchase it after it's been EGL/RGL certified, have it shipped to the U.S., then ship it to AGL for more authoritative testing.

I will ask if I can wait for a stronger certification! And I don’t think he will be able to take pictures now given that the stone is locked up in his office - but I will ask. I plan to set it in a bezel if that makes a difference

Thank you so much for the tips!

 

[Cerulean]

He said the stone had a small bubble inclusion - no cracks / feathers.

Higems also sent me a few videos of three different stones...forgive any crummy quality as they are screenshots from videos

Not sure I like the first one at all. 3rd one might be too dark? Can’t tell if any of them are as vivid as the other one from the vendor in Thailand.

2.16

3.08ct

3.52

 

[Cerulean]

So - Thai vendor said to get Lotus / RGS would cost $300-$400 more

and the 3.52 stone from higems is way over budget. The only one on the table for me is the 3.08.

would be curious to know what people thought of it compared to the 2.52 from the Thai vendor!

EDIT: he said the 3.08 is a bit included and bottom heavy / bottom I s a little lopsided...it also just doesn’t appear as vibrant

 

[Lilith112]

So - Thai vendor said to get Lotus / RGS would cost $300-$400 more

and the 3.52 stone from higems is way over budget. The only one on the table for me is the 3.08.

would be curious to know what people thought of it compared to the 2.52 from the Thai vendor!

It's a bit hard to compare since GemOcean's were taken outside and HiGem's appear to be taken inside. I'd ask HiGem for outdoor, natural sunlight pictures before making any comparison.

RE: bubble inclusion, I think it should be okay as long as it's just a small bubble. It's unfortunate that he can't take a picture now since I think that'd be more helpful for determining how close it is to the girdle and how large/noticeable it is.

 

[Cerulean]

It's a bit hard to compare since GemOcean's were taken outside and HiGem's appear to be taken inside. I'd ask HiGem for outdoor, natural sunlight pictures before making any comparison.

RE: bubble inclusion, I think it should be okay as long as it's just a small bubble. It's unfortunate that he can't take a picture now since I think that'd be more helpful for determining how close it is to the girdle and how large/noticeable it is.

For HiGems...The ones with the brown flooring are outside on a balcony!!!

also realized I kept describing GemOceans electric blue stone as being
from a Thai vendor and I meant Sri Lankan - stupid error. We were talking about how he also works out of Bangkok

 

[qubitasaurus]

EGL is emteen labs, it could be that at the moment there isnt as much flexibility with getting the desired thai or hong kong lab reports. I think this is one of the complications you face.

I feel like the 2.16 is nicer than the 3.08.

 

[Lilith112]

For HiGems...The ones with the brown flooring are outside on a balcony!!!

also realized I kept describing GemOceans electric blue stone as being
from a Thai vendor and I meant Sri Lankan - stupid error. We were talking about how he also works out of Bangkok

Ah, I see! Got it. I agree with @qubitasaurus about the 2.16; it looks nicer. Is it certified? How do its specs compare with the 2.56ct one?

 

[Cerulean]

EGL is emteen labs, it could be that at the moment there isnt as much flexibility with getting the desired thai or hong kong lab reports. I think this is one of the complications you face.

I feel like the 2.16 is nicer than the 3.08.

I am thinking I may just bite the bullet and get a cert in the US if I am feeling desperate. Between RGL/EGL is one better than the other as far as anyone knows? Or does it not matter...

Yes - agree that the 2.16 from HiGems is actually nicer - the 3.08 looks greyer / patchy now that I am looking and they said that the 2.16 is indeed a nicer stone. Asked if it is certed - waiting to hear, but don't think so.

Curious to hear anyone's thoughts side by side - of course it pains me that I don't have dimensions or close ups of inclusions for GemOcean. The color of blue is quite different, which is okay. Not apples to apples.

Side by side outdoors - the 2nd one seems to have weird dark spots in the videos:

GemOceans 2.52 - don't know dimensions yet , Madagascar, small bubble inclusions, 2.7kUSD


HiGems 2.16 - 8mm*5.7mm*5mm, Burmese, rutile inclusions - otherwise clean, 1.5kUSD

 

[Cerulean]

Hmmm - no cert on the HiGems stone - returnable if not as guaranteed - don't love that at all.

EDITED: My fiance has a strong preference for the OceanGems...I think I do too. HiGems stone seems to have dark spots as was called out in the first photo I shared in this thread - think that would bother me...although the price is low to me which is nice...

 

[Lilith112]

Hmmm - no cert on the HiGems stone - returnable if not as guaranteed - don't love that at all.

EDITED: My fiance has a strong preference for the OceanGems...I think I do too. HiGems stone seems to have dark spots as was called out in the first photo I shared in this thread - think that would bother me...although the price is low to me which is nice...

I'm leaning towards the OceanGems one as well. If you're going to open AGL in the U.S., I don't think it matters too much. For reference, my pad is certified unheated by both RGL and Lotus.

 

[qubitasaurus]

It's hard to tell, lilith was right you need photos in comparable lighting.

RGL vs EGL I honestly dont know, never heard of RGL. I feel like you should agree to a return (and how you'll return it) if it tests differently in the US. Then send it to test once you get it.

It feels like there should be a better solution, but purchasing from srilanka in the middle of a pandemic was going to introduce some complications-- and it feels like this may aptly sit under that category.

I also like the ocean gem better based on the photo. So hard to compare though.

In general the light and dark band in the 2.16 is not something to be too worried about, it could be due to the way the light hits it in that picture. Or it could be a small bow tie (in the first picture where this effect was pointed out it was -- most likely -- a bowtie. Here it is fainter so I am less concerned, and itll be less of a problem if it is a bowtie). Unfortunately it comes back to that thing about seeing sapphires in person to work out what you're trading off and how strongly you feel about it. It is faint enough to be a very minor problem, if that photo is accurate.

 

[Cerulean]

It's hard to tell, lilith was right you need photos in comparable lighting.

RGL vs EGL I honestly dont know, never heard of RGL. I feel like you should agree to a return (and how you'll return it) if it tests differently in the US. Then send it to test once you get it.

It feels like there should be a better solution, but purchasing from srilanka in the middle of a pandemic was going to introduce some complications-- and it feels like this may aptly sit under that category.

I also like the ocean gem better based on the photo. So hard to compare though.

In general the light and dark band in the 2.16 is not something to be too worried about, it could be due to the way the light hits it in that picture. Or it could be a small bow tie (in the first picture where this effect was pointed out it was -- most likely -- a bowtie. Here it is fainter so I am less concerned, and itll be less of a problem if it is a bowtie). Unfortunately it comes back to that thing about seeing sapphires in person to work out what you're trading off and how strongly you feel about it. It is faint enough to be a very minor problem, if that photo is accurate.

Super helpful.

Honestly I don't feel too worried about the report - maybe I should? I don't even know that I would send to AGL honestly...am I nutso?

Need to get indoor photos for the OceanGems stone for sure....maybe be a bit before I can.

I feel more worried that I would be buying a stone (the 2.16) without any report at all. And it is not my favorite of the two based on current photos. So it may make it an easier choice.

 

[qubitasaurus]

Super helpful.

Honestly I don't feel too worried about the report - maybe I should? I don't even know that I would send to AGL honestly...am I nutso?

Need to get indoor photos for the OceanGems stone for sure....maybe be a bit before I can.

I feel more worried that I would be buying a stone (the 2.16) without any report at all. And it is not my favorite of the two based on current photos. So it may make it an easier choice.

No it is not nuts to keep it and not pursue the AGL lab report. It is merely making a choice to be happy, like lovesdogs did with her purchase. However most of us feel a sapphire should have a lab report -- especially if it costs a few thousand. So it would be recommended you at least got the vendor to send it somewhere on their side (EGL if nothing better is available. Usually most stones will have a lab report like this when they're initially sold to a US vendor and this vendor will often get a fresh report from AGL before selling it to you.).

Ideally you would get the report from Lotus, AGL, GRS or GIA as well simply because if you ever tried to sell it that paperwork would be helpful. You are probably never planning on selling this ring. So this is not such a big deal here. But just as a good practice it would be nice if you could do this as well -- and ideally you would have an agreement to return the stone if it tested unexpectedly.

Remember sometimes two labs disagree, so lab reports are not absolutes.

I think most things are usually negotiable. If something is important to you, you should always reach out to the vendor and express that. (I.e. if a report for the 2.16 is super important than you can always mention it nicely and see what they say.). They're often awesome and will let you know what they are able to do to help. Afterwards you'll have a complete picture and be able to make an informed choice.

 

[Cerulean]

No it is not nuts to keep it and not pursue the AGL lab report. It is merely making a choice to be happy, like lovesdogs did with her purchase. However most of us feel a sapphire should have a lab report -- especially if it costs a few thousand. So it would be recommended you at least got the vendor to send it somewhere on their side (EGL if nothing better is available. Usually most stones will have a lab report like this when they're initially sold to a US vendor and this vendor will often get a fresh report from AGL before selling it to you.).

Ideally you would get the report from Lotus, AGL, GRS or GIA as well simply because if you ever tried to sell it that paperwork would be helpful. You are probably never planning on selling this ring. So this is not such a big deal here. But just as a good practice it would be nice if you could do this as well -- and ideally you would have an agreement to return the stone if it tested unexpectedly.

Remember sometimes two labs disagree, so lab reports are not absolutes.

I think most things are usually negotiable. If something is important to you, you should always reach out to the vendor and express that. (I.e. if a report for the 2.16 is super important than you can always mention it nicely and see what they say.). They're often awesome and will let you know what they are able to do to help. Afterwards you'll have a complete picture and be able to make an informed choice.

This is really helpful. I honestly can't even remember if my diamond e-ring has a cert from GIA or if it was done in-house or somewhere else....LOL. and it was a lot more expensive than this stone! But honestly, I don't really care because I love it. I had it assessed / verified by an independent GIA G.G. and haven't thought about it once since.

No doubt, esp for international purchase, I will want a lab report, even if it is from a lesser known lab. I also thought - if for some reason I did ever sell it an American buyer may want AGL/GIA for comfort anyways so don't think I want to go through the hassle of paying an extra $300-$400 for a Lotus report. You are right that it would take an extenuating circumstance for me to sell it, or if for some reason I get the stone, dislike it and can't find an easy way to return it...

I don't care one lick about color grading, I care about what my eyes see - just want to know it is untreated! It might be worth the $200ish to just ensure that - but I am undecided - the anxiety of shipping out a high cost item might overcome my interest in sending to AGL (this logic might seem silly) But if I do send to a lab...I should define what my recourse is with the vendor if it comes back as anything other than what I paid for.

Lots to think about. Will also discuss with OceanGems, I don't feel compelled enough to pursue the HiGems stone honestly, unless I lose the other... feel at peace with the possibility of losing the HiGems stone if I wait. It doesn't make my heart flutter and all I see if a big window when I look at it....it's so prominent in vids.

My hands are tied though, OceanGems will not sell anything without a certification, but that's my preference anyways. So it could be a few weeks (god forbid months) before I am able to get the stone...

 

[lovedogs]

I prefer the ocean gems one by a lot (but agree that one needs to compare equivalent pics in similar lighting, etc.)

 

[Cerulean]

Higems stone issues just shared- maybe none of it is a big deal but to me counts against


Small chips in the circle, and at the bottom, tiny healed fractures at one corner

 

[qubitasaurus]

This is really helpful. I honestly can't even remember if my diamond e-ring has a cert from GIA or if it was done in-house or somewhere else....LOL. and it was a lot more expensive than this stone! But honestly, I don't really care because I love it. I had it assessed / verified by an independent GIA G.G. and haven't thought about it once since.

No doubt, esp for international purchase, I will want a lab report, even if it is from a lesser known lab. I also thought - if for some reason I did ever sell it an American buyer may want AGL/GIA for comfort anyways so don't think I want to go through the hassle of paying an extra $300-$400 for a Lotus report. You are right that it would take an extenuating circumstance for me to sell it, or if for some reason I get the stone, dislike it and can't find an easy way to return it...

I don't care one lick about color grading, I care about what my eyes see - just want to know it is untreated! It might be worth the $200ish to just ensure that - but I am undecided - the anxiety of shipping out a high cost item might overcome my interest in sending to AGL (this logic might seem silly) But if I do send to a lab...I should define what my recourse is with the vendor if it comes back as anything other than what I paid for.

Lots to think about. Will also discuss with OceanGems, I don't feel compelled enough to pursue the HiGems stone honestly, unless I lose the other... feel at peace with the possibility of losing the HiGems stone if I wait. It doesn't make my heart flutter and all I see if a big window when I look at it....it's so prominent in vids.

My hands are tied though, OceanGems will not sell anything without a certification, but that's my preference anyways. So it could be a few weeks (god forbid months) before I am able to get the stone...

Pretty sure the higems stone is not windowed . It might have a tilt window of a slight bowtie. Ofcourse the Oceansgems one may have a tilt window too. Tilt windows often dont show up until the face of the gem becomes tilted at a significant enough angle to the plane of the camera lense. Unfortunately it is often not recommended to buy overseas on your first coloured stone purchase because it takes time to work all these things out and know what you are looking at. Looking at the photos I doubt either would have severe problems (the rulite in the higems and the bubbles in the ocean gems stone will also help with these kind of issues -- as they'll scatter the light more evenly throughout the stone leading to less prominent light and dark fringes from optical interference due to cutting issues -- so I'd have been surprised if either had bad optics issues). It if I was buying I'd be checking this and a lot of other factors as well as I could.

Yes sending it to a lab yourself poses issues -- such as damage in the post which youd probably bear the consequences of even if you had insurance. But these events are probably rarer than seeing people buy coloured stones that turned out to be treated in some undisclosed way (often not the vendors fault as they were given it as untreated and sold it in good faith). Coloured stones are different from daimonds in this regaurd -- with a daimond the lab report sets the price, with a coloured stone it is being used to rule out invasive treatments.

You also have issues with return if you dont like it. As there are not many ways to ship lose gems back overseas insured. Again this is the issue with pursuing an overseas vendor. It is perhaps unlucky here for you, as lilith and I both live closer to hong kong and thailand, and could pop over to see a stone or ask a friend to go if needed. Youre playing a different ball game with more risks and more unknowns.

But you are not forced to make an immediate choice, time is on your side so you can check your other options before going forward to see what is the best fit for you.

The solid advice would dont spend money you wouldn't be willing to lose -- but this applies unilaterally to all transactions. Not just international ones. And I am not even sure if doing everything by the rules all the time is good advice either .

 

[qubitasaurus]

Higems stone issues just shared- maybe none of it is a big deal but to me counts against


Small chips in the circle, and at the bottom, tiny healed fractures at one corner

So that's a good sign for the vendor. But a bad sign for that specific stone -- it's in the crown so probably not somewhere you want a chip. Had wondered why it was so cheap, so maybe not a complete surprise.

 

[Cerulean]

Pretty sure the higems stone is not windowed . It might have a tilt window of a slight bowtie. Ofcourse the Oceansgems one may have a tilt window too. Tilt windows often dont show up until the face of the gem becomes tilted at a significant enough angle to the plane of the camera lense. Unfortunately it is often not recommended to buy overseas on your first coloured stone purchase because it takes time to work all these things out and know what you are looking at. Looking at the photos I doubt either would have severe problems (the rulite in the higems and the bubbles in the ocean gems stone will also help with these kind of issues -- as they'll scatter the light more evenly throughout the stone leading to less prominent light and dark fringes from optical interference due to cutting issues -- so I'd have been surprised if either had bad optics issues). It if I was buying I'd be checking this and a lot of other factors as well as I could.

Yes sending it to a lab yourself poses issues -- such as damage in the post which youd probably bear the consequences of even if you had insurance. But these events are probably rarer than seeing people buy coloured stones that turned out to be treated in some undisclosed way (often not the vendors fault as they were given it as untreated and sold it in good faith). Coloured stones are different from daimonds in this regaurd -- with a daimond the lab report sets the price, with a coloured stone it is being used to rule out invasive treatments.

You also have issues with return if you dont like it. As there are not many ways to ship lose gems back overseas insured. Again this is the issue with pursuing an overseas vendor. It is perhaps unlucky here for you, as lilith and I both live closer to hong kong and thailand, and could pop over to see a stone or ask a friend to go if needed. Youre playing a different ball game with more risks and more unknowns.

But you are not forced to make an immediate choice, time is on your side so you can check your other options before going forward to see what is the best fit for you.

The solid advice would dont spend money you wouldn't be willing to lose -- but this applies unilaterally to all transactions. Not just international ones. And I am not even sure if doing everything by the rules all the time is good advice either .

I honestly don’t even know why I typed window!!! I meant bow tie!!! I agree it doesn’t look like a window - I honestly care less about windows, or uneven color, even wonkiness of other kinds, but something about bow ties really drives me nuts. I just find it really visually disruptive and it’s all I see when I look at this stone now.

I know this feels a bit high risk to buy abroad. I was really struggling to find something that made me AS excited, that was unheated in my budget in the USA - I know people buy stones from abroad but maybe not commonly first time - I started looking at stones from Australian vendors, Bayoto (based in Africa), so I figured...what’s the difference as far as risk goes??? I’ve ordered other products from international vendors, just nothing so expensive

I do have time, which is great. I feel like I’ve already looked at hundreds of stones online...this one stood out. Either way - it won’t be the last sapphire oh earth that I will fall in love with if it doesn’t work out LOL. The time to wait is probably a good thing for sure