Refurb gone really wrong - what to do?

[Demelza]

Well, here's the thing: Even if it can be fixed by casting a completely new head, doesn't that ruin the integrity of the piece as an authentic antique? Are there any grounds here for asking for the fair market value of the setting so that Circe can replace it with another vintage mounting?

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I think from the photos the center stone can be removed and laser weld the top and side of the mounting. They can rebuild the beads holding the center stone, reset the stone, bright cut the edges and remilgrain. We do this type of work on Whitehouse Brothers rings after years of wear.

Off topic, but I am glad to know of another company that makes die-struck rings!

I think if Circe loves this ring, there is nothing wrong with getting Mark or Ari to remake the head. Finding another antique ring that she loves as much and exactly fits her stone might be a much more frustrating experience.

 

[WhitehouseBrothers]

I really don't think it would be a big deal to fix the ring. Rebuilding it with a laser welder will insure the metal is good quality. Trying to copy the head would be a lot of work and hard to make it appear the same as the original.

 

[Circe]

Thanks, guys. Just got a response back from the jeweler - they say slight adjustments are common to get everything right after prongs are built up.

I am trying to figure out exactly what it is I need to ask them to do. I cannot picture these prongs being laser-welded back to wholeness, somehow ... they'd need to add a lot of material, wouldn't they? Wile I love the Patchwork Girl of Oz, I don't know if I'd feel comfortable wearing her ring.

Can I just ... ask them to add a plate, like they do to make the hex-head settings bigger or smaller? And sculpt the new prongs out of that? Or is that stupid?

 

[WhitehouseBrothers]

You can build up material quickly using the laser welder and fill in the original seats for the stone and where the beads or prongs are. The setter would re-cut the seat and cut new prongs for the center stone. They just need to start fresh by filling in the setting work.

 

[Circe]

Daniel, that's the best news I've heard all day - thank you. So I will cross my fingers and hope that they have access to a laser-welder ... and if not, have to consider going elsewhere.

Alternately, what I meant when I mentioned the plate was, if they couldn't repair the prongs, to chop off the damaged bits, solder a plate on, and wind up with a head sort of like the one below ... it wouldn't be ideal, but it would hopefully be secure. I just want to be able to wear it without, a) worrying about loss - the top priority, obviously!, and, b) having my OCD side fixate on all the flaws. Given that a little tiny one drove me to try to fix it, the degree I'm seeing here would drive me bonkers. Again, thanks ... your expertise is much appreciated.

 

[Circe]

And, working backwards a little ... Distracts, Yssie, DS, Dreamer, Catmom, TyTy, Missy, Demelza, THANK YOU, for your kind thoughts and good suggestions.

DS, I took your advice and sent the shots like I said above ... I hope it will help.

Dreamer, if it comes to that, he and Adam at OWD are my next two calls ... I just really hope it won't come to that, for a number of reasons. I really liked this jeweler, and I'd prefer to keep liking them, if that makes sense - too many purchases/prospective purchases to want to attach any bad mojo! Given the storm, maybe ... an aberration? Human error? QC out to lunch that day? If they can just fix it, I'll be quite satisfied.

Missy, thanks for the tip - I've seen him do such awesome things with settings for you and Mara that he is really somebody I want to visit one of these days to peruse settings. If it's not too indelicate ... how would you say his pricing on settings/benchwork is?

Demelza ... thanks so much. I have to say, the idea of paying five times+ over the cost of the easy fix I thought I was getting for an entirely new head sticks in my craw a little ... but who knows, maybe they will see a solution I haven't, or look at it and go, "D'oh!" and do just what Daniel said above. I would be satisfied with that. It's the idea of having to pay +++ more to fix the setting that started out secure that makes me scowl.

So, I'll wait for Friday and see what they say. I've calmed down a little, after a long day of work (and a longer night of grading, after I stayed up too late freaking out about this). At the end of the day, I know they're nice people, accidents happen, and I think (hope?) they'll make it right. And if not, I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. Right?

 

[Dreamer_D]

Is your ring insured? If my ring was damaged too badly by a jeweler then I would make a claim and buy a replacement vintage mount, personally. My thinking is thus along the lines of Demelza's suggestion earlier.

 

[Circe]

That's ... something I hadn't thought of. Somehow, I figured this was outside the bounds of insurance. I am insured. So, if need be, I guess that's an option - thanks for the suggestion!

ETA: With Jeweler's Mutual, for whatever that's worth, if anybody out there has had any experiences with them ....

 

[Circe]

And, Son of ETA ... in line with Dreamer's earlier suggestion, I'm trying to put together the most complete-without-being-insulting list of what I'd like. Here's what I've got - any tips appreciated.

• No obvious tool-marks on the metal, and a neat polish.
• All prongs touching the stone and holding it securely.
• If bead-set, three discrete beads in the original style as opposed to one roughly shaped prong.
• Prongs built up, to me, means bigger than when they came in, not smaller. I wanted the one off-kilter prong built up, not the other three reduced. I actually like the square-to-cushion outline, and would like to retain/regain it.
• The corners of the prongs should meet, not overlap, the stone – the way they’re set now they make it look like the stone is chipped.
• Given the quality of the milgrain performed … no milgrain, smooth raised edge on the refinished prongs.
• I’d be happy to either have the current prongs rebuilt via laser welding, or to have a plate soldered to the tops of the prongs and new beads raised, whichever the experts think will be more successful.

Y'all think I'm missing anything?

 

[Circe]

No additions/suggestions?

Seriously, no matter how obvious, if it looks like I've left something out, tell me. I feel like I'm trying to compose an incantation. Ye Olde Incantation to Summon the Spirits of Good Werkmanship and Bende Them to Your Wille.

 

[WhitehouseBrothers]

What did they charge for the job? I guess you need to see what they can realistically do for a fair price.

 

[Circe]

They charged $100 to build up the prong, which went awry.

What I wanted them to do initially was a lot easier than what needs to be done now, so ... I'm really not sure how to handle the financial aspect.

 

[Dreamer_D]

I would persoanlly not give them another go. I would take it as a lesson learned about the bounds of their skills. And I would make a claim. Your mount is insured with JM. You would need to call their claims and find out how to proceed. But it is a true vintage piece and I don't see why you should have to "suffer" through a "fix" that will never make it what it was! So I would personally look into the claim prior to anything else.

I have found when I try to micro-manage jewelers it aways goes awry

You may not be covered since the jeweler did it, but its worth checking into.

 

[WhitehouseBrothers]

I agree with not going back. It will cost a several hundred to get the ring rebuilt and reset to its original state. I don't think the jeweler is going to have the passion to do this job properly. A refund, JM, and send it to a good jeweler. You should not have to tell the jeweler how to make a proper repair.

 

[WhitehouseBrothers]

Where are you located?

 

[Circe]

NYC.

 

[Dreamer_D]

I also wanted to add that I have been where you are. Twice My local jeweler who did the refurb on my vintage mount did a great job. But before that they did a crappy job on prong setting some OECs in earrings for me, and more recently when they refurbished my husband's Scott Kay band I believe they took down the metal too far on the channels and one of the stones fell out. In the case of the earrings I took them back -- twice -- looking for a fix and they never really did it to my satisfaction. In the case of my husabnd's ring I sent it back to Scott Kay to be fixed, and ate the costs. I decided that the money spent/lost on those two cases was small compared to the good things they have done for me, and which I want to continue benefitting from -- unsetting stones, perfect and seamless resizing, maintaining my vintage setting, free verbal appraisals and weighing stones... and on and on. But, I will never ask them to prong set something for me again and I will never ask them to refinish a designer band with channel set stones! It is not their forte. But I accepted that because I want to maintain a relationship with them. Had the botches been really $$ I don't know what I would have done! But I have learned not to ask someone to fix a truly botched job. If they could have done it right they would have. The first time.

 

[WhitehouseBrothers]

If you cannot find someone, let me know. I don't like to get bogged down with repairs, but it is something we are more than capable of fixing.

 

[WhitehouseBrothers]

Channel settings are really hard to loosen up, especially just from refinishing. I wouldn't necessarily blame the jeweler, unless something really went wrong.

Repairs are tough. You get other peoples work that has had corners cut. Since you are the last guy to touch it, often you get caught with another persons crappy work falling apart on you. I can understand both ends. Because of unforeseen problems, repair work is not very profitable for most jewelers.

 

[LibbyLA]

Circe,

What I think is weird is that it seems to be the right side of the box on every side. Now I don't know anything about the equipment that's used repair and polish jewelry, but I can imagine some sort of polish/grinder wheel rotating from left to right and catching the leading edge of that right side. It's so weirdly consistent.

I hope you are able to get it repaired with a minimum of hassle and expense.

liz

 

[Gypsy]

I would make sure you have as many before and after shots ready on a Powerpoint, on a thumb drive. Just to have, in case. Then when you go there if things go sideways you have the information right there and on a computer you can really blow it up to show them the damage if they try to claim it wasn't done by them, or was pre-existing.

But you all know I'm one to prepare for the worst even while hoping for the best.

Sorry this happened!

 

[missy]

And, working backwards a little ... Distracts, Yssie, DS, Dreamer, Catmom, TyTy, Missy, Demelza, THANK YOU, for your kind thoughts and good suggestions.

DS, I took your advice and sent the shots like I said above ... I hope it will help.

Dreamer, if it comes to that, he and Adam at OWD are my next two calls ... I just really hope it won't come to that, for a number of reasons. I really liked this jeweler, and I'd prefer to keep liking them, if that makes sense - too many purchases/prospective purchases to want to attach any bad mojo! Given the storm, maybe ... an aberration? Human error? QC out to lunch that day? If they can just fix it, I'll be quite satisfied.

Missy, thanks for the tip - I've seen him do such awesome things with settings for you and Mara that he is really somebody I want to visit one of these days to peruse settings. If it's not too indelicate ... how would you say his pricing on settings/benchwork is?

Demelza ... thanks so much. I have to say, the idea of paying five times+ over the cost of the easy fix I thought I was getting for an entirely new head sticks in my craw a little ... but who knows, maybe they will see a solution I haven't, or look at it and go, "D'oh!" and do just what Daniel said above. I would be satisfied with that. It's the idea of having to pay +++ more to fix the setting that started out secure that makes me scowl.

So, I'll wait for Friday and see what they say. I've calmed down a little, after a long day of work (and a longer night of grading, after I stayed up too late freaking out about this). At the end of the day, I know they're nice people, accidents happen, and I think (hope?) they'll make it right. And if not, I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. Right?

I would say he is very fairly priced and I would give him a call and see what he thinks. His bench is excellent (from what I have seen) and if you talk to Adam and he says they can do it I would trust him on that. He will give it to you straight up. Good luck Circe-I am feeling positive for you after reading the rest of these posts...Here's hoping you get a perfect repair!!

 

[Kim N]

And, working backwards a little ... Distracts, Yssie, DS, Dreamer, Catmom, TyTy, Missy, Demelza, THANK YOU, for your kind thoughts and good suggestions.

DS, I took your advice and sent the shots like I said above ... I hope it will help.

Dreamer, if it comes to that, he and Adam at OWD are my next two calls ... I just really hope it won't come to that, for a number of reasons. I really liked this jeweler, and I'd prefer to keep liking them, if that makes sense - too many purchases/prospective purchases to want to attach any bad mojo! Given the storm, maybe ... an aberration? Human error? QC out to lunch that day? If they can just fix it, I'll be quite satisfied.

Missy, thanks for the tip - I've seen him do such awesome things with settings for you and Mara that he is really somebody I want to visit one of these days to peruse settings. If it's not too indelicate ... how would you say his pricing on settings/benchwork is?

Demelza ... thanks so much. I have to say, the idea of paying five times+ over the cost of the easy fix I thought I was getting for an entirely new head sticks in my craw a little ... but who knows, maybe they will see a solution I haven't, or look at it and go, "D'oh!" and do just what Daniel said above. I would be satisfied with that. It's the idea of having to pay +++ more to fix the setting that started out secure that makes me scowl.

So, I'll wait for Friday and see what they say. I've calmed down a little, after a long day of work (and a longer night of grading, after I stayed up too late freaking out about this). At the end of the day, I know they're nice people, accidents happen, and I think (hope?) they'll make it right. And if not, I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. Right?

Circe, so sorry you're having to deal with this. Whatever you end up doing, I hope the solution is to your satisfaction. Just wanted to add that I had the bench at OW set my stone into a standard four-prong 14k wg setting. One or two of the prongs were not pointing in the same direction as the others, and the stone also became loose in the setting two days later.

Sending many hugs to you.

 

[Rosebloom]

I am so not helpful in these cases but just wanted to say that I'm following along and I really hope you get a satisfactory fix - whatever form that takes. So sorry this happened!

 

[hearts-arrows_girl]

And, Son of ETA ... in line with Dreamer's earlier suggestion, I'm trying to put together the most complete-without-being-insulting list of what I'd like. Here's what I've got - any tips appreciated.

• No obvious tool-marks on the metal, and a neat polish.
• All prongs touching the stone and holding it securely.
• If bead-set, three discrete beads in the original style as opposed to one roughly shaped prong.
• Prongs built up, to me, means bigger than when they came in, not smaller. I wanted the one off-kilter prong built up, not the other three reduced. I actually like the square-to-cushion outline, and would like to retain/regain it.
• The corners of the prongs should meet, not overlap, the stone – the way they’re set now they make it look like the stone is chipped.
• Given the quality of the milgrain performed … no milgrain, smooth raised edge on the refinished prongs.
• I’d be happy to either have the current prongs rebuilt via laser welding, or to have a plate soldered to the tops of the prongs and new beads raised, whichever the experts think will be more successful.

Y'all think I'm missing anything?

Ooooh Circe, so sorry you're having this problem. Your bullet points are right on. If you have them re-do anything, they absolutely can't say they didn't understand what you wanted. Your photos are perfect to show the problem areas. I will be watching to see how this turns out for you. I remember how much this ring means to you, from your posts. Take a deep breath and take this one step at a time. It will be fixed to your satisfaction, it just may take some brainstorming to decide which path to take. ((hugs))

 

[Circe]

Hi, guys - thank you all so much for the comments and support. Daniel, Dreamer, Liz, Gypsy, Missy, Kim N, Rosebloom, Hearts-Arrows Girl, I really appreciate it.

Dreamer, I'm hoping my story will go somewhat like yours - we seem to be coming to an amicable resolution. While I don't think I'd ask them to do any other restoration work (after this, I'm sure they wouldn't want me to!), I do feel like continuing to shop there shouldn't be uncomfortable.

Daniel, thank you so much for all of your excellent advice. I think this should work out, but if I need complex work in the future, you are at the very top of my list.

Gypsy, that was such a good idea. I did just that ... and while I didn't wind up needing it, it helped me feel prepared, which was a real boon.

Missy, Kim N, thank you for the feedback on OWD. I am looking forward to working with them one of these days, and it's good to have some idea of what to expect.

Rosebloom, Hearts-Arrows_Girl, the support did me good. Thank you. It really is reassuring to have fellow jewelry lovers backing me up on not being crazy for caring so much about this tiny little thing!

I just wanted to poke my head in to thank you guys, and to tell you that it looked like it was going to work out okay: they're going to replace the head with a nigh-on identical one, and were very apologetic about the miscommunication. Will try to post with background tomorrow, and then try to sit on my hands for a week or two while the work is done. Here's hoping for a happy ending ....

 

[justginger]

I've really got my fingers crossed for you, CIrce - I can't believe someone looked at that setting and thought, "Ah...that's better" before handing it off to you, the customer. I very much hope they're able to rectify this so the ring is restored to its former glory.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Good luck, Circe! At least you have some back-up with Daniel if they don't come through as well as hoped!

 

[Circe]

So, as near as I can figure, here's what happened.

I stopped in to see about building up the prongs, and while I was there, the sales representative (who as I mentioned, I quite like and have had a friendly working relationship with) showed me some gorgeous settings. They said that as long as the stone was out of the setting, it wouldn't be any problem to pop them in to see if they were a good fit, and that they'd even snap a few quick pics to help me see if the settings were what I was looking for.

And did! Which is good, since it helped me realize that I can't quite pull off a Victorian setting with this stone - it looks jarringly modern. I doubt I can go earlier than, say, late Edwardian, preferably Deco.

Buuuuuuuuuut ... somehow, the bench jeweler got the idea that popping the stone into the other settings was the only reason to unset it - the need to reset it got lost along the way. So the bench jeweler did it the quick and dirty way, and apparently had a rather challenging time getting it back together and into the setting. When I pointed out the things that bothered me, there was some defensiveness - I think it would have been a real bitch-kitty of a job to try to repair the head to my standards, and the bench jeweler was not looking forward to trying it. But, uh, I was not looking forward to wearing a busted ring ... or to having to replace it in haste. Things got a little heated for a sec, and then the sales representative jumped in to respectfully suggest that they could just replace the head. The bench jeweler was skeptical, looked at the one brought in as a sample, agreed it could work ... and I heaved an enormous sigh of relief.

I have mixed feelings about the whole thing. I'm an amateur silversmith myself, and I know the sinking feeling you get when something you've been working on just doesn't want to cooperate. I imagine it's 1000 times worse on old metal, and old metal belonging to somebody else, at that. That said ... I would have been a lot happier if I'd just gotten a call saying, "Soooo, bad news ..." when it went south, and been reassured it could have been repaired up front, instead of having the sinking realization of how bad it was, having to consult you guys, and then spending a rather anxious day or two imagining all the worst outcomes.

BUT, they're going to try to make it right: the sales representative is behaving kindly and honorably; and the bench, while somewhat grumbly, is genuinely talented from other examples I've seen, and I know accidents happen. So I'm going to suspend judgement on the whole thing until I see how it looks with the new head. Here's crossing every digit on my body.

In other news, I could not help indulging in my own equivalent of comfort food: I got a finger-warmer to keep me company while my precious is missing. Five carat-ish ruby eternity. I'm sure they'll be the best of friends once they're finally introduced: