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Reality check on engagement ring drawing

gemmygemgem

Rough_Rock
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While another recent thread of mine explored the more exciting part of toys/tools to explore stones, I've also been working with the jeweller to design the ring.

Sorry if this gets a little long, but I wasn't very happy with the drawing they gave (which I had told the shop I was planning on handing to my significant other as a gift). Please hear me out and let me know if my expectations are unreasonable. I don't intend for this to be a name and shame post - purely hoping to reality check myself and hear from the experienced and industry experts what I should properly be expecting and how might I approach this better. I'll meet with the jeweller tomorrow to go through these concerns. Thank you in advance!

Before giving the brief on the design, I sieved through and prepared a document of around 50 images (out of around 300 I collected online) showcasing the designs I liked and didn't for each part of the ring (categorised into prong tips, prongs, shoulders, shank). I then met with the jeweller for around 1.5hrs going through each part of the ring, telling them what I wanted for each part, using the images as reference, and gave them a copy of the document.

They have since produced the attached CAD drawing, which I haven't been very impressed with. Can I reality check if I'm expecting too much from the drawing? A few grievances set out below.

  1. I'm not convinced the drawing reflects the true dimensions and angles of the stone (which I purchased through them), as it seems quite sloppily pasted in with prongs overlapping and covering parts of the stone where I don't think it should. When asked, the designer said, "yes our brilliant technical designer is nuanced on ensuring the prongs are balanced with the size of the centre stone". I'm particularly concerned about the angle because one key design element I have was to have the silhouette of the stone visible from the side. The prongs therefore will need sufficient clearance from the stone to achieve this.
  2. I had asked that the vertical prong edges to be slightly curved and not squared off. On the bottom 2 images there are vertical lines running along the vertical edge of the prongs suggesting that they are squared off. Is this a limitation of CAD drawings or just poor drawing?
  3. Bottom right image, the prongs which should jut out left and right don't look like they're drawn parallel to the field of view. I find this evident because (a) the thickness of the prongs are visible on the outer edge, denoted by a vertical line on the edge. If it was a curved edge (which it should be, as I had expressed), there should not be a vertical line on the edge of the prongs; (b) If you compare those outer prongs in the bottom left image to the right image, they look essentially identical. Yet the prongs on the bottom left image are supposed to be at an angle to the viewer, whereas bottom right image the prongs should be parallel. One of them have to be wrong; (c) poor shading, which I admit can be subjective. A clear drawing issue... right?
  4. The inside edge of the shank should, as far as I'm aware, have a uniform edge, be it flat, comfort or something in between. However, based on the shading in the drawing, the lower half of the shank looks more rounded whereas the upper part looks quite sharp/flat. In other words, it doesn't look consistent.

They've now quoted roughly US$2.5k for the making of the ring in 18k white gold (previously they quoted around $2k before I started talking design details with them). I'm not experienced and don't have much to compare against other than to say I knew someone who made an engagement ring at the same shop 2 years ago who was charged around the same ($2.7k) but with 0.099ct of small melee diamonds included in that price. Am I the only one who is finding the pricing a little unreasonable? How much more should 0.099ct and additional settings add to a ring?

Rant and reality check aside, I've also been thinking about the orientation of the 6 prongs. Would anyone have thoughts about rotating the prongs so that two of them are in the same line as the ring shank itself?

Phew. Thank you for reading through this if you did. I wanted to keep this unbiased as possible. Happy to provide any additional information where needed and would appreciate a bit of a reality check. 6E60AA20-C247-4B39-AAE9-0BC87C68CB65.jpeg
 

DejaWiz

Ideal_Rock
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One particular seller's design jumps out at me immediately when I saw your rendering.

May I ask which ring was the primary basis for inspiration?
 

yssie

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Okay. A ton to unpack here. Your descriptions are not entirely clear to me. Can you copy and paste a few (please don’t attach all fifty) of the most relevant inspiration photos so that we can follow along re. What you want?

The CAD they’ve sent you is of a bare-bones basic solitaire. This does not represent a complex and arduous CAD effort. There is also nothing about the design in portrayed the CAD that demands a custom job - and 2.5k for designing and producing that is extremely steep. However, there are certainly elements to design that CAD will not convey - that’s why we need to know more about what you were trying to achieve.

 

Rfisher

Ideal_Rock
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Just replying to your questions on what the cad conveys to what you will actually receive.
There’s no way there’s a standard reply to give.

I think there’s jewelers that use their cad as a hardcore definition and others it’s a looser suggestion.
maybe ask them to view their previous work on a similar project and the cads they made. In person if possible?

As for the prong orientation
Maybe this might help.
 

tyty333

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I dont understand your #3 comments. Can you mark up an image of your "CADs" to help us understand. Are you in the
U.S. ? I see no reason this setting should cost $2.5k. I think DK would do it for closer to $1kish (perhaps slightly more).

I sure as heck don't understand why it would take 50 images to get to this setting. I must be missing something!
 

DejaWiz

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Okay. A ton to unpack here. Your descriptions are not entirely clear to me. Can you copy and paste a few (please don’t attach all fifty) of the most relevant inspiration photos so that we can follow along re. What you want?

The CAD they’ve sent you is of a bare-bones basic solitaire. This does not represent a complex and arduous CAD effort. There is also nothing about the design in portrayed the CAD that demands a custom job - and 2.5k for designing and producing that is extremely steep. However, there are certainly elements to design that CAD will not convey - that’s why we need to know more about what you were trying to achieve.



My thoughts line up with yours.

I saw the renderings and immediately thought of something along the lines of the WF Ritani 7265 or Valoria.
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
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By the way, most vendors call these bare bone solitaires with this look "presentation" solitaires. They are simple and inexpensive
so that the person receiving the ring can go on and pick out the setting that she really wants. I'm sure some people do keep their
stones in the presentation solitaires do to $$$.

Here is one like I'm talking about. You can see the cost. I would be interested in knowing what you like about the above setting or what
you think your GF may like about this setting? I know its slightly different from what you're looking for but you can check out the cost.

 

adlgel

Shiny_Rock
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Not commenting on your other questions but one point you should be clear with whoever you use to make a setting for your ring is how high you want the diamond set (distance from top of stone to top of ring shank is one way of measuring this). Some people prefer the stone mounted higher so that there is a noticeable gap between the culet of the stone and the top of the shank.

Your drawing has no measurements (most that I've seen do) so it's not clear to me if this drawing is meant to convey the specific height at which they intend to set the diamond.
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
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I'm just going to put this out there...you asked for a Reality Check...

Why on Earth are you going to so much effort (and possibly cost) to design a ring that looks like a presentation ring in the range of
$250 in 14k???

Agree with @glitterata ...50 images to get to this design???
 

gemmygemgem

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Thank you all for the replies.

As to how on earth 50 images came to this drawing... that's probably one of the things which disappointed me. It's not showing the nuances I gave instructions on.

I do think the 'difficult customer' might be playing into it, but in all honesty I don't really think I've been difficult (admittedly probably eaten up a bit more of their time by going into the details - but if they were able to give me comfort about covering those details without me mentioning it, then that'd be time saved for me too). I've been passionate about it and spent most of my own time at home planning all the details before we meet. If I had a choice, I'd be discounting them for a lack of effort given they market themselves as a bespoke shop. I would like to think of it as a 'premium' for more customisability - but I'm not sure that I'm convinced it's that bespoke.

I'm not in the US.

Indeed no dimensions - but it is meant to be in the correct proportions. I didn't want the stone to be set too high. I'm happy with the height in the first 3 images below, and in the CAD. When I asked if they drew the stone to proportion, they told me "Please keep in mind that we don't provide precise measurements aside for general widths because we are completely trusting of our master jewellers to create a well proportioned beautiful piece of work. If the approach is exacting to the mm (aside from basic measurments such a band width, diamonds width etc). the best approach is moulded setting. Please understand our jewellers do everything by hand". Fair enough - I don't expect the craftsperson to replicate the design down to the very last detail. But that doesn't negate the need to at least have a specific design for the crafstperson to attempt to replicate.

Prongs/crown design element:
I attach 3 images of the key design inspiration for the crown/prong part of the ring from Johnsen Diamonds. I just googled and it is similar to WF Ritani 7265 or Valoria, but not really the same. Prongs should be more softly rounded in the design I wanted. I also found a similar design but with more squared prongs which I DON'T like, which I also provided for comparison purposes (4th image).

I mentioned I wanted the prongs to be slightly knife edged towards the inside facing the stone, and slightly rounded edges on the outside. It's hard to tell from the CAD design if the prongs are tapered, but the outside certainly looks too squared from the lines.

The CAD prong tips aren't what I wanted, but I won't bore you guys here with that little bit.
Untitled.jpg
Untitled 3.jpg
Untitled 4.png
Untitled 6.jpg

Shoulder and shank:
I wanted a slightly dull knife edge towards the shoulders, inverse tapered to the extent it is slightly pinched, softening out to pretty much rounded edge as it gets to the 3 o'clock and 9 o'clock mark. Reference image of something probably too pinched and not a knife edge, but shows the inward tapering curve I was after. Second image is more similar to what I was after. I think the tapering they drew looked reasonable.
Untitled 5.jpg cbe24f37-adb2-44bf-95d2-5feb60dcf86f.JPG

Edit: And thank you for the link here. That photoshopped comparison done by you @Rfisher was very nice!
As for the prong orientation
Maybe this might help.
 
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MillieLou

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It sounds like they've ignored everything you said, sent you CADs for their most basic solitaire (pretty much identical to my 250USD one from Blue Nile) and given you a frankly ridiculous price. It's almost to the point of a joke. Honestly, that alone would put me off using them.

That said, it does seem you are overthinking this all ;-)

Personally I'd be inclined to visit a few reputable local places and ask to see their settings, find a solitaire that you like the look of, and ask them to make one just like it - perhaps with one or two tweaks. The advantage of this is that you'll know it's within their capabilities and that you are both on the same page. I'm in the UK and a custom setting similar to what you want in 18k WG would run at the equivalent of 800 USD including everything.
 

kgizo

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I mentioned I wanted the prongs to be slightly knife edged towards the inside facing the stone, and slightly rounded edges on the outside.

Are you talking about the prong tips (like claw prongs) or the entire prong? If you mean the entire prong and it involves shaving down the prongs I wonder about the structural integrity of them.

Reality check, you sound like someone who knows exactly what they want when they see it, and the jeweler sounds like they rely heavily on their “ brilliant technical designer”. Unless you two think exactly alike you could be disappointed (on the flip side, you might be thrilled with their creative license). It may be less frustrating for you to find an existing setting that pleases you.
 

yssie

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Your jeweller is correct in that exact sub-mm measurements in CAD are pretty meaningless - the precise heights of stones and widths of design elements will depend on final steps of polishing and finishing. Prongtips will also be adjustable at this time (ie Tab vs claw).

I agree with @MillieLou, they customized your shank taper/knife edge request and just stuck the default model six prong head on. However, I have to agree with @kgizo - how much are you willing to pay for prong adjustments so minute that they’re barely visible? The difference between straight/angular prongs like your fourth pic and the curved exterior you want - I’m pretty sure I’m following correctly - will be almost invisible IRL. I’m a big proponent of custom work when it gets you exactly what you want, but your differentiators are so small that even I am questioning the worth of the huge custom premium here.

If they curved the exteriors of the prongs more - would that resolve your concerns?
 
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gemmygemgem

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It sounds like they've ignored everything you said, sent you CADs for their most basic solitaire (pretty much identical to my 250USD one from Blue Nile) and given you a frankly ridiculous price. It's almost to the point of a joke. Honestly, that alone would put me off using them.

That said, it does seem you are overthinking this all ;-)

Personally I'd be inclined to visit a few reputable local places and ask to see their settings, find a solitaire that you like the look of, and ask them to make one just like it - perhaps with one or two tweaks. The advantage of this is that you'll know it's within their capabilities and that you are both on the same page. I'm in the UK and a custom setting similar to what you want in 18k WG would run at the equivalent of 800 USD including everything.

Haha, that's pretty much what I'm feeling too. Glad I'm not far from reality it seems. They were recommended by someone I know who used them happily - albeit with the owner of the business rather than the 'designer' I'm working with now. I didn't know what design I wanted when I started working with them to source the stone. Now that I had decided on the stone (found it online myself, they confirmed it looks excellent, and got it for me through their network... for essentially the same price as if I got it online myself), I turned my attention to the design. Doesn't feel right to walk away from them now given they've put effort in the consultations and design?

But price certainly feels rather high, and given the replies above, I will try and stand my ground on their previous quote of US$2k as opposed to 2.5k. Another local shop I went to indeed quote me under $500 for a standard 18k WG ring...!

I know I'm overthinking but I can't help but do so. I tend to overthink everything I am committed to doing... perhaps one of those "what are your weaknesses" answers in an interview? :)


Are you talking about the prong tips (like claw prongs) or the entire prong? If you mean the entire prong and it involves shaving down the prongs I wonder about the structural integrity of them.

Reality check, you sound like someone who knows exactly what they want when they see it, and the jeweler sounds like they rely heavily on their “ brilliant technical designer”. Unless you two think exactly alike you could be disappointed (on the flip side, you might be thrilled with their creative license). It may be less frustrating for you to find an existing setting that pleases you.

I was referring to the prongs themselves. I don't mean to make them very thin, just relatively have the prongs wider towards the outer edge, and narrower on the inner edge facing the stone - not literally a knife edge.

Haha... reading those words "brilliant technical designer" make me cringe every time... no need for those flowery words! I think you read me correctly but to be honest I don't think it's the problem of their "technical designer" (whom I haven't met) but more of what the 'designer' person I've been interfacing with is conveying with the rest of the team... I think.

Your jeweller is correct in that exact sub-mm measurements in CAD are pretty meaningless - the precise heights of stones and widths of design elements will depend on final steps of polishing and finishing. Prongtips will also be adjustable at this time (ie Tab vs claw).

I agree with @MillieLou, they customized your shank taper/knife edge request and just stuck the default model six prong head on. However, I have to agree with @kgizo - how much are you willing to pay for prong adjustments so minute that they’re barely visible? The difference between straight/angular prongs like your fourth pic and the curved exterior you want - I’m pretty sure I’m following correctly - will be almost invisible IRL. I’m a big proponent of custom work when it gets you exactly what you want, but your differentiators are so small that even I am questioning the worth of the huge custom premium here.

If they curved it he exteriors of the prongs more - would that resolve your concerns?

Can you elaborate that 'prongtips will also be adjustable at this time'? Even the width and height of the material on the tips? It's surprising me a bit. Would be a relief if that were true. I was just hoping there'd be a proper design diagram which the actual artisan craftsperson could refer to - otherwise it's too many layers of approximations that the end product would hardly be what was originally intended.

The rounded exterior prong edges would solve a big part of the drawing flaw I think - but I am happy to pay that premium (partly now that I've stepped into the puddle, I don't think it'd be fair to them if I back out now?) up to what they originally quoted if it can work out with the rest of the design elements being incorporated.
 
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Rfisher

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"Please keep in mind that we don't provide precise measurements aside for general widths because we are completely trusting of our master jewellers to create a well proportioned beautiful piece of work. If the approach is exacting to the mm (aside from basic measurments such a band width, diamonds width etc). the best approach is moulded setting. Please understand our jewellers do everything by hand".
Are they telling you here they are hand forging the ring - as opposed to hand fabricated/cast?

have you asked to see similar rings already made by them?
 

yssie

Super_Ideal_Rock
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If you are unhappy with the design proposed you have no obligation to continue your transaction with them besides whatever nonrefundable deposit they may have requested, if any.
 

yssie

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The cast is made from the CAD. The CAD is created with special software - there are a few different programmes, made by different companies. The CAD designer may choose to show exactly what will be cast, or may decide to add detail into the CAD that will not actually be cast, but created in final finish, to give the client a better visual of how the piece will look when finished.

The shape of the six prongs as viewed from top down (the perspective in this photo) - this is adjusted after casting. So if you want claw prongs, that might not show up in the CAD. When you see claw prongs in CADs - that’s because the designer is trying to show the customer the final look, but the mould won’t actually be cast with claw prongs...
DC7FCF28-B10B-40FB-8FB3-D8D6243D47B2.jpeg
 

yssie

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The area circled will be largely unchanged during final finish, structurally, So in this area the CAD does portray what shapes will be cast - and that shape will be retained in the final product. So the curvature at the arrow, you need to be happy with that in the CAD because that’s pretty much what it’ll look like all finished.
E7A525DC-3F48-454D-808D-9CEE1F634F7B.jpeg
 

Cerulean

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Just dropping in - I am sorry you and your jeweler are not on the same page. That is never any fun, for either party.

TBH...sharing such a large number of images is going to overwhelm even the most detail-oriented person. I can be borderline obsessive too, so I do empathize.

The moment I saw the CAD it screamed cheap "presentation ring". Even the desired changes/details are not really going to change that and I do think will be largely unnoticeable. If that's your dream ring, fine. I don't mean to offend. But know what you are paying for.

I do think this is a case where over-analyzing is really getting in your way. This is an extraordinary amount of effort for minimal pay-off. If this ring was a truly complex design, the painstaking detail might make more sense.

But at a certain point, you have to trust a jeweler to do their job, and it sounds like you and this jeweler aren't a good fit. If you are paying so much, at least work with someone you don't feel like you need to micromanage so much. That approach is going to make it more stressful for both parties.
 

gemmygemgem

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The area circled will be largely unchanged during final finish, structurally, So in this area the CAD does portray what shapes will be cast - and that shape will be retained in the final product. So the curvature at the arrow, you need to be happy with that in the CAD because that’s pretty much what it’ll look like all finished.
E7A525DC-3F48-454D-808D-9CEE1F634F7B.jpeg

Noted, thanks.

It doesn't seem like they'll be casting it since one of their messages say that if I wanted it exact to the millimeter in the CAD then it will need to be casted. As to whether it will be hand forged, etc. I'm not sure. What should I be looking for? @Rfisher

I remember coming across an extremely detailed post on this forum talking about the different fabrication methods. I haven't had a chance to digest it in detail yet though. (https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/how-does-it-all-work.244700/)

I have seen a few other rings they've been making. They looked fine for the design they were making (very standard/classic, like the last image in my post #11 above). Anything I should look out for?
 
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gemmygemgem

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Just dropping in - I am sorry you and your jeweler are not on the same page. That is never any fun, for either party.

TBH...sharing such a large number of images is going to overwhelm even the most detail-oriented person. I can be borderline obsessive too, so I do empathize.

The moment I saw the CAD it screamed cheap "presentation ring". Even the desired changes/details are not really going to change that and I do think will be largely unnoticeable. If that's your dream ring, fine. I don't mean to offend. But know what you are paying for.

I do think this is a case where over-analyzing is really getting in your way. This is an extraordinary amount of effort for minimal pay-off. If this ring was a truly complex design, the painstaking detail might make more sense.

But at a certain point, you have to trust a jeweler to do their job, and it sounds like you and this jeweler aren't a good fit. If you are paying so much, at least work with someone you don't feel like you need to micromanage so much. That approach is going to make it more stressful for both parties.

May I ask, do the first 3 images in my post #11 above scream 'presentation ring' as well? If so, would you (or anyone) mind sharing what wouldn't be screaming presentation ring for a solitaire setting? Genuinely interested.

I'm trying to go for a simple design which also contains detailed design elements. Don't like the fancy trellis, basket, cathedral, etc. design elements. The sample images I posted remind me of a tulip. I do prefer an inverse tapered band though, hence the deviation from the reference images. I was initially going to go for a another very very standard look (similar to the classic Tiffany's 6 prong knife edge) but found the tulip/turbine prong design feature to be more unique, and allowed more space to showcase the silhouette of the stone, which I'd like.
 

yssie

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Frankly I wouldn’t be surprised if they’re planning to cast the shank and stick a stock die struck Stuller head in.
 

Cerulean

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May I ask, do the first 3 images in my post #11 above scream 'presentation ring' as well? If so, would you (or anyone) mind sharing what wouldn't be screaming presentation ring for a solitaire setting? Genuinely interested.

I'm trying to go for a simple design which also contains detailed design elements. Don't like the fancy trellis, basket, cathedral, etc. design elements. The sample images I posted remind me of a tulip. I do prefer an inverse tapered band though, hence the deviation from the reference images. I was initially going to go for a another very very standard look (similar to the classic Tiffany's 6 prong knife edge) but found the tulip/turbine prong design feature to be more unique, and allowed more space to showcase the silhouette of the stone, which I'd like.

If you like it, that's what matters. The pictures in #11 struck me in that way.

I much prefer the Tiffany's solitaire, but that is my preference.

I think the main point is - is what you are buying a good value?

There are countless solitaire designs...and without knowing what your exact taste is...(these are meant to be illustrative)


1623948033745.png


1623948093558.png


1623948296771.png
 

yssie

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May I ask, do the first 3 images in my post #11 above scream 'presentation ring' as well? If so, would you (or anyone) mind sharing what wouldn't be screaming presentation ring for a solitaire setting? Genuinely interested.

Yes. They do. To me anyway. I also questioned the custom premium for this design.

Will you be the one wearing the ring? If so, then our opinions don’t matter... Beyond perhaps the advice to please not pay $2.5k for this!! If you’ll be gifting this to someone else, though, I urge you to consider putting the rock into a real (and inexpensive!) presentation ring and choosing a mount together.

Here are some simple designs that say “luxe custom job” - ignoring the centerstone size. The difference is in the delicacy and precision of each design element and the fluidity with which design elements join each other.
Edit - in addition to the styles @Cerulean posted.

4854D3F7-15C5-48E3-AD88-452F06F0C260.jpeg

51790F6B-E727-4753-BF0A-98C3B7B1E3A3.jpeg

B4B46BFA-BEA9-4915-A8EE-2CE5B19DCF1B.jpeg

3F408C3F-6756-4D73-A6DE-389C8CE26DA7.jpeg
 

distracts

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I think they may be giving you the “difficult customer” price.

This was my guess too. 50 images and an hour and a half with the jeweler for a simple solitaire???? Is OP joking???

Ok now that you've said you are working with people who don't cast but make the ring entirely by hand - for the amount of control you want over the design, that's not going to work for you. The CAD could be very substantially different than the ring, since the ring won't be cast from the CAD at all. You need to find a different jeweler if that's what you want.

Honestly given what you want, I think you would most benefit from searching lots of different setting manufacturers until you find a stock setting that meets your requirements or will need only minor changes to meet them. Wanting a plain solitaire is pretty much a "don't reinvent the wheel" sort of situation.
 

lovedogs

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Yes. They do. To me anyway. I also questioned the custom premium for this design.

Here are some simple designs that say “luxe custom job” - ignoring the centerstone size. The difference is in the delicacy and precision of each design element and the fluidity with which design elements join each other.
Edit - in addition to the styles @Cerulean posted.

4854D3F7-15C5-48E3-AD88-452F06F0C260.jpeg

51790F6B-E727-4753-BF0A-98C3B7B1E3A3.jpeg

B4B46BFA-BEA9-4915-A8EE-2CE5B19DCF1B.jpeg

3F408C3F-6756-4D73-A6DE-389C8CE26DA7.jpeg

And even these much nicer designs aren't 2.5k!!!!
 

Cerulean

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And even these much nicer designs aren't 2.5k!!!!

Whiteflash, Victor Canera (Bliss line) and James Allen have a lot of pretty, simple solitaires for even less than 1k!

I think @distracts saying "don't reinvent the wheel" is bang on. There are SOOOOOO many simple solitaires. In fact, so many that it might be overwhelming. They aren't all equal, but you are bound to find something.

I am sure folks here would be happy to help you find a stock setting if you like!
 

lovedogs

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Whiteflash, Victor Canera (Bliss line) and James Allen have a lot of pretty, simple solitaires for even less than 1k!

I think @distracts saying "don't reinvent the wheel" is bang on. There are SOOOOOO many simple solitaires. In fact, so many that it might be overwhelming. They aren't all equal, but you are bound to find something.

I am sure folks here would be happy to help you find a stock setting if you like!

Yup. OP: Please walk away from this jeweler and get all money back. Start over trying to find a stock setting (there are SO many).
 
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