Racism on Pricescope

[OreoRosies86]

I think the majority of us are the age where we were raised in an environment of either casual or outright racism.

The BLM thread really drove it home for me that racism might be better concealed now, but not much has changed.

 

[minousbijoux]

Queenie, I can only speak for my part in this and say that I didn't bash Ruby, but I did respond that I find her posts of a certain nature and tone and do not read them as a result.

So, with all due respect, she has already demonstrated bullying behavior. My response in this thread is not to attack her but to express my opinion that this thread about Michelle was in extremely poor taste and had a racist tone. If these posts are to be tolerated as freedom of speech, then whoever the poster is needs to accept there will be a strong opinion as a result or not post to incite reaction.

Well said.

 

[Indylady]

As far as the Michelle college thread from the OP I have made my opinion known that I think it is a ridiculous thread and my opinion of the issue is on the first page. I did not read all of it because it is ridiculous. Ruby does start inflammatory posts on occasion and I guess so do I, though less frequently.

But since some have decided to expand on that thread to obviously include me in their posts on this thread regarding racism I have to respond. I will not try to change any of your minds about me because if any of you think I am a racist then that is your problem and definitely not mine. It is interesting that the members some of you are talking about are conservative. Conservatives have known for years that the way some liberals shut down a conversation is to charge racism. If racism to you is defined by someone talking about personal responsibility, enforcing immigration laws, disagreement with the tenets of BLM, welfare abuse, and heaven forbid affirmative action (which is too charged for even me to discuss here at any length) or any other issue of the day then you are conflating racism with opposing opinion. I do not feel my race is superior to ANY other and that is the definition of racism. So it seems you are really talking about perceived prejudice. You have no idea what is in someone else's heart and nor do I so I do not presume to know, however many of you do make that presumption. Or even go so far as to psychoanalyze the offending poster. The hubris in that is astounding. Then there are those who feel the need to show the offenders the error of their ways by "educating" them. Also astounding hubris.

If the members here want to ask Andrey to ban all posters who disagree with the pack mentality shown in this thread then by all means do it. Because that is not a place I would like to spend time anyway. I already ignore the nastiest here but peeked in this thread to ensure I followed the conversations being discussed.

This thread is absolutely not about conservatism; it is about racism. I did not draw on any politically based threads, such as the many on Trump, as examples. I really do not care or take offense. The thread I called out in my original thread is one that you agree is "ridiculous" too.

There is a difference between enforcing immigration laws, and re-defining and re-writing those laws as have been done recently to promote xenophobic and Islamophobic, and racist, sentiment. The travel ban to 7 Muslim majority countries and DREAMER deportations are examples of that. So, there are some 'racist' opportunities to come up in the political discussions that are permitted.

As for disagreeing with BLM, I simply do not understand. To me, it is like disagreeing with UNICEF.

Racism is not about your heart--it is about one's words and actions, and the way they impact the world and people around it; just like drunk driving cannot be a matter of the heart--it is a matter of effect--so is racism.

I hope and intend to curb racism on this board--not conservatives. Please do not misunderstand me. Perhaps if that can be clarified, this might become a more hospitable place sooner.

 

[Indylady]

I'm going to agree with Ilander. I've been avoiding PS a lot. I use the mark forums read every time I check in, mostly out of frustration. This used to be a great place to hangout. Now I'm supposed to just ignore racism, and other offensive posts, instead of PS moderators actually dealing with the problem? No thanks. Ignoring is IMO a form of condoning the fact that the subject matter is okay to post here.

I wonder if the moderators leave it, because otherwise the forum would be completely dead?

 

[Indylady]

"I used to engage kind of a lot. However, after a lot of engaging but never getting anywhere at all, I finally began".......
.....mostly just really not engaging at all.

I learned this the hard way about PS many years ago, and have been working on firming up that stance for quite a while now. The energy of putting out a well-reasoned and researched response, that results in nothing but frustration when you get the the inevitable deflecting one-liner that reduces to "I believe what I believe because I believe it", or the equally deflecting illogical non sequitur, takes more out of me these days than I can afford to give. It's not worth the energy expenditure anymore. I respond very occasionally, but most of the time, read the fray just for the entertainment value.

About racism. More than politics, more than women's issues, maybe more than religion, racism is THE issue in the US. It has been with us since our founding an is the thing that just will.not.go.away. No one is ever racist and yet somehow racism corrodes our ideals still.

Well, I'm admitting it. I am racist. i was raised in Oklahoma - which is overwhelmingly white - in the 60s and 70s, when it was even more overwhelmingly white. Is there any chance I would not have abundant racist tapes in my head? Not anything my mother ever said, because she almost never talked badly about any group of people. But all the casual, assumed racism of other relatives, the racism that permeated all types of media, and the racist statements that were made because it was assumed (correctly) that they would be unchallenged? Those I absorbed quite like breathing. As did most of us I suspect.

I've been actively working at un-learning it since my late 20s, when I said something that was graciously ignored by the person I said it to, but still embarrasses me to remember to this day. It hit me square between the eyes that I was racist. It was painful to realize this. It was one of those glimpses of an unattractive part of the self, that either makes a person dig deeper to try to understand and root that ugliness out by bringing it to light, or (more often) makes one turn away from the pain of looking. I chose to look and to dig, and I'm digging still. I think the old tapes will ensure that I always have to keep on my toes.

So, basically, I don't think there are many white people who are not racist. There are however, a bunch of us who think we aren't and are highly invested in not looking too closely to check. And the more violent and personally offended the reaction to the idea that you might be expressing something racist, the more the chance that you probably are racist. Think ministers or politicians who rail against gays, only to turn out to be gay themselves. Same kind of thing - methinks thou doth protest too much.

So I've ignored many, maybe most, statements on here that were clearly racist, in the interests of not fanning the flames, and because I've felt it's mostly pointless. Perhaps it's not. Like others, I'm not always sure silence is the way to go - I waffle from time to time - speak out, or shut up. It's a balancing act. Silence is sure as heck more personally peaceful though.

I hardly ever report stuff, because I just don't. It's not my style. I think I've done it twice? since I started on PS. It's also very revealing what people say when they assume no one will challenge them. I do like the idea of concerted stony silence when whole threads are started with a racist theme. And I confess to finding it entertaining to watch the increasingly frantic attempts to goad people into responding.

Annnd....thus ends my (probably) single "big post" of the month. Time to lapse back into my torpor.

Maybe the thing to do is to email the sponsored vendors of this site to encourage them to pull out. I wonder if the moderators leave racist posts to keep up a mirage the the board is busy. Perhaps they will feel differently, and take care to remove racist posts and posters, if there is a financial incentive to do so.

 

[AGBF]

Well, I'm admitting it. I am racist.

I've been actively working at un-learning it since my late 20s

So, basically, I don't think there are many white people who are not racist.

I came to believe these things about myself and society when I left the little cocoon in which I was raised in Connecticut and went to college. It was 1969 when I started, and the Vietnam was in full swing. While I was still an undergraduate, President Nixon extended the war into Cambodia. I joined a group of political students on my campus whose thinking was much more disciplined than mine had been. I was in a women's group for the first time. I thought about institutional racism. The Black Panthers were active then and they were teaching that just having white skin gave "white skin privilege": you were not as likely to be assaulted by the police; mistreated in a store; called names in a restaurant, and so on. The Young Lords in New York City were Hispanic activists fighting for their community as the Black Panthers were for theirs. Like you, I came to know I was a racist. And I did not want to be one. My parents, who had fought for fair housing in our town, and would never have been known as anything but liberals, also were racists. In very small ways, but racist nonetheless. They had had black friends in college and believed in civil rights, but I remember my mother telling me when i was little not to get my ears pierced because I would look like "a little Puerto Rican girl". She later worked in Head Start. She loved black and Hispanic little children. The child she loved most on earth was the baby I adopted from Colombia, who was, of course, Hispanic. I am sure she never remembered saying that about "a little Puerto Rican girl", but somewhere in her had once been a feeling that Puerto Rican equalled "cheap". That is what I know I still carry in me from being raised white and privileged here. Thanks for your lead, ksinger.

AGBF

 

[redwood66]

This thread is absolutely not about conservatism; it is about racism. I did not draw on any politically based threads, such as the many on Trump, as examples. I really do not care or take offense. The thread I called out in my original thread is one that you agree is "ridiculous" too.

There is a difference between enforcing immigration laws, and re-defining and re-writing those laws as have been done recently to promote xenophobic and Islamophobic, and racist, sentiment. The travel ban to 7 Muslim majority countries and DREAMER deportations are examples of that. So, there are some 'racist' opportunities to come up in the political discussions that are permitted.

As for disagreeing with BLM, I simply do not understand. To me, it is like disagreeing with UNICEF.

Racism is not about your heart--it is about one's words and actions, and the way they impact the world and people around it; just like drunk driving cannot be a matter of the heart--it is a matter of effect--so is racism.

I hope and intend to curb racism on this board--not conservatives. Please do not misunderstand me. Perhaps if that can be clarified, this might become a more hospitable place sooner.

My post was directed at the obvious discussion of me and others who happen to be conservative going on in this thread. By deduction one can draw that conclusion to conservatives. My post is not about you but a view on what people are calling racism.

Edit - And racism in the form of Hitler and others like him is absolutely about the heart because if the heart is filled with hate then the actions follow suit.

 

[siamese3]

Indylady, I really have been thinking about this thread so much, and I am so glad you posted it. I think that it really is at the root of the problem of what is ultimately going on in politics, and in a broader sense, the country, and it has trickled down into PS. I think that what has bothered me the most about the election, and ultimately this administration, was the vitriolic language, the hate speech, the "us against them mentality" which I think feeds into the psychology behind racism. I think that the question is: do you speak out, sometimes tirelessly ()? Instead ignore? Or just become immune to that kind of behavior? I think the most dangerous thing that can happen is to not shine a light on it. I think it does need to be called out. That it cannot be tolerated. I think that it why I have been so passionate about posting lately. I didn't realize how easy the idea of racism can masquerade as opinion that is worthy of debate.

 

[OreoRosies86]

A quick PS search of "BLM" will bring up countless infuriating gems to peruse. I don't recommend it if you want to keep your blood pressure down.

 

[dk168]

Can't remember opening the thread either, thought it was yet another political thread.

As for alleged racism in PS, I honestly have not felt the need to hit the 'Report' button. However I do have the tendency to avoid anything remotely contentious.

DK

 

[iLander]

Well, the solution is a simple one, move all political threads to a separate "Politics" forum and out of Hangout. If someone is dumb enough to wander over there, that's their problem.

This is what I originally thought would happen with the new allowance of political threads.

And if we feel that a thread is political, such as any thread (like that blatantly racist BS about Michelle) that mentions the name of a political figure, we will report concern and say that it be moved.

Hangout was full before, and it will be again. Full of nice people, not those that revel in the negative attention of incendiary posting and controversy.

Or we can just boycott PS advertisers, and let them know exactly why we're doing it.

 

[iLander]

Click the "ignore all conservative" button...

You know, DF, I have been thinking about your "lady bought abalone with her welfare check" story. You use it as a "all people on welfare are bad" story for years. For all you know, she resold that abalone at a profit, so that she could buy even more food and important necessities for her family. As Trump would say isn't that just "good business"? You don't know, DF, you just don't know the facts.

 

[GliderPoss]

Having read both threads I think safest to simply create a separate "Politics" forum or ban it altogether. Since the ban was revoked I've definitely seen a downhill slide in tone, content & manners on PS....Generally if I find a thread offensive I'll simply ignore it BUT even if "I disapprove of what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it"...

 

[AGBF]

The BLM thread really drove it home for me that racism might be better concealed now, but not much has changed.

When I was reading reviews on books about fiction on Africa last night (reference to that in another thread), an author alluded to this sentiment. He felt strongly that those who had experienced colonialism would never fail to find great improvement in the independence to follow it. No matter how imperfect that independence. (Naturally he was referring to African nations emerging from colonialism into the "modern world", but I still find this analogous.)

A lot has changed. At lunch yesterday we were trying to figure out how long ago it was that blacks and whites could not marry in South Africa. Trekkie reminded me of that. We couldn't remember. Was it the 1990's? We thought of the Loving case. It was in 1958 when I was already 7 years old that the Lovings were jailed in Virginia for getting married out of state, in Washington, DC where it was legal to have the marriage celebrated, when they returned to Virginia. the Supreme Court did not overturn this until 1967 when I was almost out of high school.

A lot has changed. But more has to change. And I believe that it has to change with knowledge that we are still a racist society and still harbor racist thoughts and hold prejudices about which we are unaware. We are unaware about "how the other half lives".

 

[telephone89]

Racism [edit: and general hate] is alive and well, IRL and very much on the internet. It's gotten more subtle in recent years. Dog whistle politics now. "illegals" and "illegal immigration" are now the thinly veiled words of choice. "Terrorist" = bad muslims (aka NOT Christian). Criticizing the movement or tenents of BLM is suddenly ok, because youre not criticizing a race directly, just how they go about getting equal rights. Saying that states should have control over trans rights instead of being protected like other citizens by the govt says that they don't care about these people.
They've realized that people don't want to directly HEAR or SEE racism, but many people still are. So they've weaved it in with clever words and phrases. A way to be racist while having a cop out "I hate BLM, but I didn't say I hate black people, its totally different."

 

[MJ_Mac]

I appreciate Indylady starting this thread. I responded once to the poster of the original thread but did not engage after that. What disgusted me was the fact a 57 year old woman was continually picking (possibly crossing into online bullying) a 17 year old child. And regardless of what she says, 17 is a child in my books. I did not see it as a racially motivated thread till later.

I agree with CJ in her post. CJ is much more eloquent than I am and she expressed it perfectly. https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/racism-on-pricescope.230887/page-3#post-4157780

 

[Arcadian]

If you think somebody is trolling, why engage them? You give them what they want which is attention, with you spending YOUR time and YOUR energy trying to change their mind.

I don't have anyone on ignore (that I know of...lol) I see and hear it all but life has taught me how to just not let that silly shit matter. I think some need to learn the art of ignore and stop trying to outbully the bully.

The group think is strong here, but I'll be the first to tell you I don't subscribe. You all need to learn how to ignore the one thats spewing what you would consider silly and/or irrational bullshit.

Debate is great, but there's a line that goes past it and I've certainly seen several threads go way past debate. Can't lie, I read them because I'm incredulous some of y'all let yourselves get dragged.

Ladies and gentlemen, trolls do what they do because they get off on getting a rise out of you. Do better.

in as far as what is going on in the US (and in other areas of the world) Some of the racism thats being seen is generational . Some of it is based on the last 8 years when people felt they had to pin they lips which lets shit simmer under the surface. Anger is an amazing thing, which can be an all encompassing emotion that has a lot of power. Its why we have Orangina in the White House now.

Racism can't be whitewashed away. We can all agree that you should not hate because of the color of someone's skin, or their cultural background, but life is not all kumbaya, and maybe because of the life I've lead, I'd rather know what you are so I can knowingly avoid you, than have you smile in my face, then stab me in my back.

That is one of my biggest reliefs of leaving New England, just throwing that out there.

As for this forum, I know who not to engage for the most part, so I don't. Depending on my mood if I see something, I will let you know I see you. But like I said, better to know up front than to not know and be surprised later on.

We're from all walks of life. We don't always have to agree, but thats also a good thing. Still, there's a fine line that does occasionally get crossed though some of ya'll do it ...a lot , just sayin. Before telling someone they stink, smell test yourself first.

 

[Ella]

What Kenny said is true. There is one administrator and me, and I am not full time. Most weeks, that is adequate. Some weeks, it means we miss things. We don't support racism here, however it does become difficult to moderate a thread when we get 12 reports, all reporting each other for etiquette breaches. Often 11/12 of those are people who just do not like someone else's opinions.

What can you do to help us? Use report concern not when you don't like someone's opinion, but when it truly breaks the TOS. Make sure you are reporting the right post (not the post above/below it), and give us a clear and concise reason WHY you are reporting the post. Don't report it multiple times, it only makes it more difficult for us.

If there is someone who you just don't like, or like to fight with, put them on ignore for everyone's sake.

 

[Ella]

I wonder if the moderators leave it, because otherwise the forum would be completely dead?

Maybe the thing to do is to email the sponsored vendors of this site to encourage them to pull out. I wonder if the moderators leave racist posts to keep up a mirage the the board is busy. Perhaps they will feel differently, and take care to remove racist posts and posters, if there is a financial incentive to do so.

Indylady, per the terms of service, if you'd like to question our motives please contact us directly instead of posting accusations.

The thread was reported to me three times, none of the posts reported had any accusations of racism. We removed a few posts that were reported because they were rude. I do not work full time, and on a weekend night that may mean that I deal with reported posts only.

We try our best not to censor, which means that sometimes posts on both sides of the political spectrum get left up when personally I would prefer to remove particular ones that I don't agree with. We think free speech is important even if it is speech I do not personally like. Be careful what you wish for, when free speech is policed it is good until those doing the policing do not agree with you.

If there is a blatantly racist post and we see it, you absolutely bet we would remove it and give the poster a time out. Same with unnecessarily rude posts, which is why we have given far more time outs lately than before.

 

[Dancing Fire]

In 1958 my grandfather open up a Chinese restaurant in a little town call Davis,Ca. , and 95% of his customers were white, seem like they got along just fine. His customers (mostly white farmers) could have boycotted his business b/c he was chinese.

 

[ruby59]

The thread was reported to me three times, none of the posts reported had any accusations of racism.

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Thank you, Ella for clearly stating this, as none was ever intended.

 

[ruby59]

Be careful what you wish for, when free speech is policed it is good until those doing the policing do not agree with you.
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Very well said, Ella.

 

[Ella]

The thread was reported to me three times, none of the posts reported had any accusations of racism.

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Thank you, Ella for clearly stating this, as none was ever intended.

Be careful what you wish for, when free speech is policed it is good until those doing the policing do not agree with you.
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Very well said, Ella.

Ruby, none of the posts that were reported were racist. But a number of them were very rude and made by you. Consider this your last warning on being nasty to others on this forum. I protect the right of people to share their opinions, but will not protect posts that are meant to demean others. Period.

 

[iLander]

Never mind.

 

[lyra]

I wonder if the moderators leave it, because otherwise the forum would be completely dead?

Indy, I feel this is closest to the truth regardless of what Ella has said. So many posters have left because of all the political threads, and now it is confirmed that nothing will change. One person should be on a time out. One person. I've seen people banned for much less bad behaviour in the past. So something has definitely changed. I don't need to help pay PS bills. Reddit is better entertainment, and more diverse.

 

[ruby59]

Ella, read the above thread of how she feels I deserve a time out or all the ones calling me a troll.

Isn't this considered rude behavior as well?

 

[Ella]

Ladies, we don't remove posters just because they post things people don't like. We do remove posts that in our opinion violate our TOS.
If we started removing every post that someone found offensive on this site, half of everyone's posts would be gone. People find different things offensive which is why we try not to censor. We get accused of removing too much, and now accused of removing too little. We cannot win this argument no matter what we do.

If I were liberal and censoring: I'd be removing a lot of posts.

If I were conservative and censoring: I'd be removing a lot of posts.

I'm not trying to say what I am, but I am trying to be as fair as possible. Which means that not everyone will be happy.

 

[ruby59]

Tacori E-ring presented a cogent assessment (IMO) of Ruby as a psychologically damaged person who has been deeply hurt in a thread about the women's march against Trump. Ruby was incensed by Tacori's comments and I feel as though I'm treading on thin ice bringing it up. Tacori's assessment resonated with me. Those who engage with Ruby in an attempt to educate her or others who may be swayed by her words reveal more about themselves than they reveal about Ruby and so I have, much to my dismay, stopped reading their attempts. I have Ruby on ignore because, for me personally, it is the humane thing to do.

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Ella, please clarify how this is not demeaning.

 

[Ella]

Indy, I feel this is closest to the truth regardless of what Ella has said. So many posters have left because of all the political threads, and now it is confirmed that nothing will change. One person should be on a time out. One person. I've seen people banned for much less bad behaviour in the past. So something has definitely changed. I don't need to help pay PS bills. Reddit is better entertainment, and more diverse.

Lyra, I'm not sure what you mean by people banned for less bad behavior. The current administration tries very hard not to ban people. I can assure you that anyone who HAS been banned has done far more, and anyone telling you anything else is not giving you the full story. If you have concerns, contact us directly.

 

[Ella]

Tacori E-ring presented a cogent assessment (IMO) of Ruby as a psychologically damaged person who has been deeply hurt in a thread about the women's march against Trump. Ruby was incensed by Tacori's comments and I feel as though I'm treading on thin ice bringing it up. Tacori's assessment resonated with me. Those who engage with Ruby in an attempt to educate her or others who may be swayed by her words reveal more about themselves than they reveal about Ruby and so I have, much to my dismay, stopped reading their attempts. I have Ruby on ignore because, for me personally, it is the humane thing to do.

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Ella, please clarify how this is not demeaning.

Ruby, mind your own business. We have dealt with situations with the appropriate people as we do with you.