Quizz - What Clarity Grade is this 0.90ct diamond

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

I hope we win! Haha What do you think we’ll get?

I can blow you a kiss?

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

And just for more fun
how about these inclusions in a diamond I bought BECAUSE it has inclusions

 

[MamaBee]

I can blow you a kiss?

Hmmmmm..Can I have a diamond instead?

 

[iluvshinythings]

I'm too late to vote, but it's hard to tell from an enlarged photo. If the inclusions are visible to the naked eye at a normal viewing distance it's probably an I1. If the inclusions are not so visible to the naked eye it could be as low as VS1 or VS2. (GIA)

Pre PS I had a diamond graded by IGI that had a very visible black glob on it and it was graded SI1. So I think this is probably VS1 - IGI.

EGL would probably give it an SI2 if the inclusion is easily visible, but probably a VS1 just for participating.

 

[oldminer]

Has there been an announcement of the grade GIA gave? Did I miss it?

 

[Rockdiamond]

If the inclusions are visible to the naked eye at a normal viewing distance it's probably an I1

This is a very common misconception. Clarity grading is based on the presence of imperfection as opposed to its visibility. Which is why we can see eye clean I1 diamonds as well as VS2 that contain imperfections visible to the naked eye.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Firstly - GIA gave it an I1. I think that was predictable. In my experiance GIA are hard of surface reaching feathers - and even though this one does not appear to have an 'open' that can fill with dirt - it could pose a damage risk.
What surprised me (And not RockDiamond) was the soft grades given by HRD!
Regarding IGI, they seem to me to be very close to GIA these days in clarity but as often as not one color grade lower.

All that said, I have seen what appear to me to be very large variations in GIA clarity grades in the SI2 / I1range.

 

[meesmom]

Woo hoo!! I was right! But only on GIA...

 

[oldminer]

Do you think that GIA would consistently give I1 on such a diamond because they push down hard when there are "opens" in the table? It seems like a harsh grade when compared to many other I1 diamonds I have seen.

GIA is a world leader in so many respects. They can be a little inconsistent just to befuddle and confuse their toughest competitors. Any lab hoping to identically grade as GIA would grade is always forced into playing catch up. It seems to be a workable strategy making exact grading from lab to lab pretty much wishful thinking.

Do you have AGS, IGI and EGL reports on this diamond, too?

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Do you have AGS, IGI and EGL reports on this diamond, too?

No Dave, But I think David Rockdiamond is probably on the money

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

What the heck, sure I'll play!!
AGS would give it SI2- which happens frequently with stones given I1 by GIA, and subsequently submitted to AGS ( saw a 5.00ct like this the other day)
EGL? That's a hard one- it really depends on which EGL I'll say SI1
IGI...generally closer to GIA lately, so SI2
HRD, SI1

But every lab makes mistakes...I'm sure many others are like me- on the edge of our seats!

PS- If I'm the buyer- I 10000% call the stone I1 till I see a GIA report. And if the GIA report says SI2 ( or some other wacky thing) I still consider the stone as an I1 in terms of pricing.

Davids picks:
AGS would give it SI2- which happens frequently with stones given I1 by GIA, and subsequently submitted to AGS ( saw a 5.00ct like this the other day)
EGL? That's a hard one- it really depends on which EGL I'll say SI1
IGI...generally closer to GIA lately, so SI2
HRD, SI1

 

[barbie86]

I went with SI2, damn! Initial thought was I1 but was swayed reading other posts lol

 

[Diamond Girl 21]

Yay!!! I got it right!

 

[Dancing Fire]

Yay!!! I got it right!

. You won the grand prize!. Garry will ship you the diamond within 48 hrs.

 

[Serg]

Davids picks:
AGS would give it SI2- which happens frequently with stones given I1 by GIA, and subsequently submitted to AGS ( saw a 5.00ct like this the other day)
EGL? That's a hard one- it really depends on which EGL I'll say SI1
IGI...generally closer to GIA lately, so SI2
HRD, SI1

@Garry H (Cut Nut)
How is about SI3 from IGI? IGI created SI3 specially for SI2/I1 diamonds.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

@Garry H (Cut Nut)
How is about SI3 from IGI? IGI created SI3 specially for SI2/I1 diamonds.

There are no SI3 IGI on Rapaport or on Get Diamonds Sergey???
There is one CGL on Rap
But very many uncertified called SI3 by the vendors

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

. You won the grand prize!. Garry will ship you the diamond within 48 hrs.

0.005ct but you must arrange and pay shipping Dancing fire

 

[Diamond Girl 21]

. You won the grand prize!. Garry will ship you the diamond within 48 hrs.

I wish!!!

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

One of the main takeaways from this experiment is how much grading diamonds adds to the cost. Not just the hundred bucks but in some cases +$1,000 per diamond after accounting for the entire process. Of course the larger and more valuable the diamond the more likely grade shopping is going to happen.

Companies ‘shop’ for the best grade to get the best return.

Diamonds are often grade by two or more labs resulting in lots of travelling, insurance and fees. Expert staff are employed to make these decisions and arrange the movement of diamonds. Challenging a lab when the owner thinks the grade is better adds further to the cost. The return on investment if a diamond takes months to get graded also has a huge cost.

Sometimes an alternative lab to GIA makes sense in different countries and markets. I wonder about GIA’s popularity in China and Russia given we seem to be entering a new cold or maybe not so cold war? The last letter does after all spell America.

Do we get value from this process?

I had a look on B2B and dealer sites at a fair sized number of IGI and GIA certified reports for the very same diamond. As Rockdiamond suggested IGI is softer in my sample half the time by on grade and very rarely by 2 grades. But on clarity IGI was softer 10% of the time and stricter on 5% of the diamond, mainly in very high clarities.

I could not find many HRD and GIA comparisons, but like the stone in this example, HRD is very soft on SI2 / I1 and clearly that is good business for them. In my trade fair experience even their SI1’s would be largely any fair persons SI2’s. Searching SI2 by discount on RapNet shows that HRD is most heavily discounted taking up half of the deeply discounted stones yet HRD graded diamonds are drastically outnumbered by GIA. But what really surprises me is HRD is now very soft on colour – I found examples of 2 grades softer than GIA.

 

[Karl_K]

RapNet shows that HRD is most heavily discounted taking up half of the deeply discounted stones yet HRD graded diamonds are drastically outnumbered by GIA. But what really surprises me is HRD is now very soft on colour – I found examples of 2 grades softer than GIA.

when I first started getting into diamonds HRD was consider to be close to Gia with the main difference on splits with HRD being harsher in a few ranges softer in others.
Hadnt heard much about them in recent years IGI ate their lunch.
Sad to see them fall.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Great thread Garry!!

Diamonds are often grade by two or more labs resulting in lots of travelling, insurance and fees. Expert staff are employed to make these decisions and arrange the movement of diamonds. Challenging a lab when the owner thinks the grade is better adds further to the cost. The return on investment if a diamond takes months to get graded also has a huge cost.

I know for a fact you’re correct- but I think it’s important to point out that this is primarily done on high dollar stones. No one I know is taking a lot of effort on L color stones hoping to get K. Same for stones smaller than maybe...1.50ct?
But it’s quite possible my view is very “NYcentric” and the situation is different in India.

Maybe it’s just my luck but resubmitting stones to GIA has rarely yielded grade changes.
There was a case of a stone which was clearly more saturated than other GIA graded Vivid Yellow stones we compared it to. No dice- it came back Fancy Intense 2 times. Talk about flushing money down the toilet!

But from my perspective, clarity grading is not comparable to color. Particularly when grading imperfect stones from SI1 down to I2.
Back when I was a diamond grader at Winston and Fabrikant, only the most experienced graders worked on imperfect goods because of the difficulty in determining those grades consistently.

For this reason, it’s kind of unrealistic to expect ANY lab to be consistent on these grades.
The effect on pricing in the NY market on larger SI goods seeks to be based, in large part, on reality. A great looking I1 brings much higher prices than borderline I2 stones.
Even once the lab shopping starts, it generally doesn’t result in such a large difference in price- based on my experience in the NY market.
Dealers are hip to all this stuff. So an AGS SI2 can trade very close to GIA I1 in terms of price.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Rockdiamond,
Great thread Garry!! Thanks mate



I know for a fact you’re correct- but I think it’s important to point out that this is primarily done on high dollar stones. No one I know is taking a lot of effort on L color stones hoping to get K. Same for stones smaller than maybe...1.50ct?
But it’s quite possible my view is very “NYcentric” and the situation is different in India.
Yes, saw 3/4 up, but Asia likes IGI - so may be that too.

Maybe it’s just my luck but resubmitting stones to GIA has rarely yielded grade changes.
There was a case of a stone which was clearly more saturated than other GIA graded Vivid Yellow stones we compared it to. No dice- it came back Fancy Intense 2 times. Talk about flushing money down the toilet!

But from my perspective, clarity grading is not comparable to color. Particularly when grading imperfect stones from SI1 down to I2.
Back when I was a diamond grader at Winston and Fabrikant, only the most experienced graders worked on imperfect goods because of the difficulty in determining those grades consistently.

For this reason, it’s kind of unrealistic to expect ANY lab to be consistent on these grades.
The effect on pricing in the NY market on larger SI goods seeks to be based, in large part, on reality. A great looking I1 brings much higher prices than borderline I2 stones.
Even once the lab shopping starts, it generally doesn’t result in such a large difference in price- based on my experience in the NY market.
Dealers are hip to all this stuff. So an AGS SI2 can trade very close to GIA I1 in terms of price.
HRD F-H SI2 $3,042pc

GIA G SI2 $3,837pc

GIA G I1 $2,823

It is clearly worthwhile to many dealers to add HRD into the mix for SI2's under 1.5ct David!

 

[AllAboardTheBlingTrain]

Well I got the GIA rating right, but that was quite a obvious one. I am surprised by the HRD rating. I remember reading and hearing that HRD and GIA grade very similarly, seems that that has changed nowadays! I also have a family friend in the jewelry business (quite a large operation, and I remember them saying the same thing to my mom - GIA is the top choice, HRD is also a good alternate option, stay away from IGI and EGL, and they work out of a country where there’s a lot of IGI)!

 

[Rockdiamond]

It is clearly worthwhile to many dealers to add HRD into the mix for SI2's under 1.5ct David!

I think our perspectives on this are again shaped by the markets we frequent most often.
I can’t recall the last HRD stone which was offered to us.
I think too, that GIA’s market dominance has been strengthened due to the massive influence of the two “main “ diamond selling websites. This has raised consumer awareness

 

[MamaBee]

. You won the grand prize!. Garry will ship you the diamond within 48 hrs.

Or he can blow you a kiss! Haha

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

The first few are GIA I1's



The next are GIA SI2's that I consider soft.


Here are some nicer SI2's showing that it really is a very big range within a grade!



And now my fav type of lower clarity diamond - twinning - when you are grading in a dark room and have little or no front light - that is the only expleanation I have.
But they do need eyeballing because some can be hazy.

 

[Diamond Girl 21]

The first few are GIA I1's



The next are GIA SI2's that I consider soft.


Here are some nicer SI2's showing that it really is a very big range within a grade!



And now my fav type of lower clarity diamond - twinning - when you are grading in a dark room and have little or no front light - that is the only expleanation I have.
But they do need eyeballing because some can be hazy.

These are great. Thanks for sharing.