Question : Gold color in antique pieces vs modern pieces (high carat)

[stracci2000]

@stracci2000 It's the Birmingham assay office website - the people who hallmarked the ring, that's the anchor symbol.

I agree @Mreader but it also shows that as well not just relying on the seller, sometimes it's just impossible to tell. There is very little difference between the two marks. I tried to find the maker to back up my thoughts but couldn't find them. If there's an exact match for the 1855 and the seller can't find the maker either than it's a deadend with a very educated 1855.

I saw that a seller recently said it could be this or that, about 2 decades apart, and gave reasons why they thought it was the later. But I see sellers all the time who assume it's the earlier one including a couple of big Etsy and Instagram sellers.

Thanks @Rhea
I will look it up. This is good information!

 

[GemmaBella]

Sharing my 22ct band from Birmingham (anchor), date letter Z. The seller listed it as being dated 1924, but the background shape would indicate 1848-1849 according to the Assay office website. I love the color! It is noticeably different from 14k. I haven't compared it yet to anything 18k, but I have some 18ct Victorian pieces to look at it side by side with. The ring measures 3.65mm wide for reference, 4.1 grams. Finding the perfect thickness was important to me too. This one is 1.5mm thick. It is very comfortable. It has a lovely patina but looks like it was cared for, not overly worn or thin in spots considering it is a softer metal. The seller did not polish it at all before shipping which I appreciate, as I enjoy the authenticity of it. On to the pics.....

 

[Mreader]

Sharing my 22ct band from Birmingham (anchor), date letter Z. The seller listed it as being dated 1924, but the background shape would indicate 1848-1849 according to the Assay office website. I love the color! It is noticeably different from 14k. I haven't compared it yet to anything 18k, but I have some 18ct Victorian pieces to look at it side by side with. The ring measures 3.65mm wide for reference, 4.1 grams. Finding the perfect thickness was important to me too. This one is 1.5mm thick. It is very comfortable. It has a lovely patina but looks like it was cared for, not overly worn or thin in spots considering it is a softer metal. The seller did not polish it at all before shipping which I appreciate, as I enjoy the authenticity of it. On to the pics.....

Very very nice. It looks like there are some letters there that would indicate the maker which would help with the year as well.

 

[GemmaBella]

Very very nice. It looks like there are some letters there that would indicate the maker which would help with the year as well.

Thanks! Yes, the maker is S&Co. I looked them up but couldn't find anything on them yet. Did your 22ct ring arrive yet that you are waiting for?
I love the cat in your avatar, btw.

 

[Mreader]

Thanks! Yes, the maker is S&Co. I looked them up but couldn't find anything on them yet. Did your 22ct ring arrive yet that you are waiting for?
I love the cat in your avatar, btw.

It’s hasn’t arrived yet but it’s an overseas purchase so might take a bit! I will let you know when I get it! And yes my tuxedo kitty is a sweetheart!

 

[GemmaBella]

@stracci2000 It's the Birmingham assay office website - the people who hallmarked the ring, that's the anchor symbol.

I agree @Mreader but it also shows that as well not just relying on the seller, sometimes it's just impossible to tell. There is very little difference between the two marks. I tried to find the maker to back up my thoughts but couldn't find them. If there's an exact match for the 1855 and the seller can't find the maker either than it's a deadend with a very educated 1855.

I saw that a seller recently said it could be this or that, about 2 decades apart, and gave reasons why they thought it was the later. But I see sellers all the time who assume it's the earlier one including a couple of big Etsy and Instagram sellers.

@Rhea Your link to the assay office was very helpful for determine the letter year. Do you happen to know of a database where you can search by Birmingham maker's marks? I am now trying to find the maker for mine. It has stamps inside saying "WEDU" and "S&Co". Any insight that anyone has would be helpful! I love trying to figure these mysteries out, but I have done a few hours of searching and all I can find are maker's marks for British silver that match with S&Co. Does the outline around the maker's mark matter like it does with the letter year? Thanks!

 

[GemmaBella]

I actually wrote to the seller and got some good info regarding the maker. "S&Co" stood for Sanders&Co, Brixton Rd. (Since closed).
While I originally thought the letter year of Z indicated 1848, I was going by not just the font, but the outline around the font with the cropped corners. The cropped corners were apparently used on gold pieces, whereas the outlines with variations (like the scalloped outline) were used on silver. Since the fonts get reused and tend to look similar, figuring out the maker helps clarify the age of the piece. So I am confident the ring is from 1924 when Sanders and Co. was in business. S&Co wasn't listed as a maker as early as 1848.
Here's the database I used, if it helps anyone!

Silver Makers Marks

British & Irish silvermiths' makers marks indexed by Assay Office

silvermakersmarks.co.uk

 

[MiniMinerva]

Sharing my 22ct band from Birmingham (anchor), date letter Z. The seller listed it as being dated 1924, but the background shape would indicate 1848-1849 according to the Assay office website. I love the color! It is noticeably different from 14k. I haven't compared it yet to anything 18k, but I have some 18ct Victorian pieces to look at it side by side with. The ring measures 3.65mm wide for reference, 4.1 grams. Finding the perfect thickness was important to me too. This one is 1.5mm thick. It is very comfortable. It has a lovely patina but looks like it was cared for, not overly worn or thin in spots considering it is a softer metal. The seller did not polish it at all before shipping which I appreciate, as I enjoy the authenticity of it. On to the pics.....

So gorgeous on you! It looks as if it glows from within. Would love to see this buttery 22k beauty next to your 18k Victorian pieces sometime!

 

[Rhea]

Sharing my 22ct band from Birmingham (anchor), date letter Z. The seller listed it as being dated 1924, but the background shape would indicate 1848-1849 according to the Assay office website.

I was going by not just the font, but the outline around the font with the cropped corners. The cropped corners were apparently used on gold pieces, whereas the outlines with variations (like the scalloped outline) were used on silver.

This is what I was trying to say in my original post on this thread, some sellers just go by the background shape. The assay office website very clearly states that the background shown is for silver, not gold, and the fonts are the same or nearly the same for mid 1800's and 1920's and 1930's. Some sellers just just look it up without reading the part I highlighted in my attached photo and say 1800's when it's far more likely to be 1920's or 1930's.

How I found out. I had a ring sold to me as 1800's and showed it to a friend of a friend who worked in an auction house at the time and they said that happens all the time and it was later than I'd thought. I thought she was wrong so I wrote to the assay office who hallmarked it and they repeated that, it was later than it was sold to me as and they get that mistake a lot. People just look at the symbols, don't read the above section about those being silver marks and gold being cut corners and suddenly the ring is marketed as being older than it actually is.

 

[Rhea]

@GemmaBella It's a very pretty ring and looks good on you, I hope you love it because it's just so nice.

 

[GemmaBella]

@GemmaBella It's a very pretty ring and looks good on you, I hope you love it because it's just so nice.

Thank you! I do love it! I love having a little piece of Art Deco history.

 

[GemmaBella]

So gorgeous on you! It looks as if it glows from within. Would love to see this buttery 22k beauty next to your 18k Victorian pieces sometime!

Thank you! I will try and get some good comparison shots!

 

[Mreader]

I got the band today: am I crazy or is this rose gold? It looks rose to me. I don’t have any 22k to compare to but I do have an 18k Cartier trinity and an 18k ring. They are vintage as in 1980-90 so not as old as the 22k. The 22k is bottom ring in this pic:



With trinity where you can see the yellow and rose :

 

[Mreader]

@GemmaBella does yours have a rosiness to it at all? I started looking online again for English bands and funny enough some of them look like they have a tinge of rose even though they are not being advertised as such.

 

[GemmaBella]

@GemmaBella does yours have a rosiness to it at all? I started looking online again for English bands and funny enough some of them look like they have a tinge of rose even though they are not being advertised as such.

Your ring is beautiful! Yes, mine also has a rosey tint to it. I have heard some sellers describe the color of old, yellow gold pieces as "rosey-yellow". Due to the age of the piece I think that's part of the patina. What year is yours?
I will try to take some pics of mine tomorrow with the 18ct pieces. I have just been busy.

 

[Mreader]

Your ring is beautiful! Yes, mine also has a rosey tint to it. I have heard some sellers describe the color of old, yellow gold pieces as "rosey-yellow". Due to the age of the piece I think that's part of the patina. What year is yours?
I will try to take some pics of mine tomorrow with the 18ct pieces. I have just been busy.

I think mine is late 1800s or earlier 1900s but I’m not certain. I’m just wondering if it’s the alloy more than the age and I was hoping for something more yellow in color. But I’m very curious if many of these rings have a rose tint - in the photograph yours looks incredibly yellow and not rose and in the eBay photographs on my ring it looked more yellow than it does in real life.

 

[GemmaBella]

I think mine is late 1800s or earlier 1900s but I’m not certain. I’m just wondering if it’s the alloy more than the age and I was hoping for something more yellow in color. But I’m very curious if many of these rings have a rose tint - in the photograph yours looks incredibly yellow and not rose and in the eBay photographs on my ring it looked more yellow than it does in real life.

I took some quick snaps this morning comparing the 22ct gold band from 1924 compared to an older 18ct yellow gold Victorian buckle ring that is from 1876. They are both yellow gold but I do think the 22ct plain band has a warmer rosier tint to it.
I will try and take some more comparisons with other pieces in the afternoon when the sun isn't so harsh. Would you consider polishing yours? I had this buckle ring lightly polished to remove a scuff and it came out really nice. I know the patina is part of the charm for many, but the scuff was distracting to me and now the gold really gleams.

 

[Mreader]

I took some quick snaps this morning comparing the 22ct gold band from 1924 compared to an older 18ct yellow gold Victorian buckle ring that is from 1876. They are both yellow gold but I do think the 22ct plain band has a warmer rosier tint to it.
I will try and take some more comparisons with other pieces in the afternoon when the sun isn't so harsh. Would you consider polishing yours? I had this buckle ring lightly polished to remove a scuff and it came out really nice. I know the patina is part of the charm for many, but the scuff was distracting to me and now the gold really gleams.

Mine is majorly polished- earlier on this thread I even hesitated to buy it because the polish was high and I wanted the patina ha ha.

These pictures are really helpful though. I am surprised how rosy it looks I wonder if it’s a British thing. I don’t have much vintage yellow gold. I do have a French item that’s old and when you look at the two together you can see that the French is quite bright yellow.

 

[GemmaBella]

Mine is majorly polished- earlier on this thread I even hesitated to buy it because the polish was high and I wanted the patina ha ha.

These pictures are really helpful though. I am surprised how rosy it looks I wonder if it’s a British thing. I don’t have much vintage yellow gold. I do have a French item that’s old and when you look at the two together you can see that the French is quite bright yellow.

Oooh, I like that snake! Please share more pics if you care to. I'd love to see it. I guess then it all comes down to the alloy. I don't have much experience seeing 22ct in person either. My mom is waiting on a 22ct piece hallmarked 1850! I will be sure to post it when it gets here. Meanwhile, I took some more pics for you.....

 

[GemmaBella]

L to R: 22ct yg band (1924), 18ct yg ring (1870), 18ct yg ring (1889), 18ct yg ring (late 1800s), 14k Victorian yg ring (no date mark), 14k rose gold Victorian ring (no date mark).

 

[GemmaBella]

So gorgeous on you! It looks as if it glows from within. Would love to see this buttery 22k beauty next to your 18k Victorian pieces sometime!

Here are some more shots top facing of the 22ct band with the Victorian pieces:


The yg belcher, the rg buttercup mounting and the navette are 14k, the rest are 18ct.

 

[Mreader]

@GemmaBella photos are here #94 of this thread:

Show me your snake jewelry

Here is my snake ring, not sure of the year. One of my favorite aspects is the detailing of the snake skin pattern. Very cool!!

www.pricescope.com

I just converted it so will post pendant update soon.

Your 22k piece looks less pink than mine I think...what a lovely collection you have!

 

[GemmaBella]

@GemmaBella photos are here #94 of this thread:

Show me your snake jewelry

Here is my snake ring, not sure of the year. One of my favorite aspects is the detailing of the snake skin pattern. Very cool!!

www.pricescope.com

I just converted it so will post pendant update soon.

Your 22k piece looks less pink than mine I think...what a lovely collection you have!

Thank you very much. I love collecting these old things! I agree your ring is more rosey. I think it is beautiful though because I also love rose gold, but I can understand if it doesn't match your expectations. There are quite a few of these 22ct English bands floating around out there, so I am sure you can find a more yellow toned one if you keep an eye out. Good luck! If I come across any I will let you know!

 

[OneKuhlChic]

Be careful of sellers claiming 1850's and 1860's date letters. The font styles are reused so those look similar to the 1930's and 1940's and seller will say they've gone by the background shape, but those are looked up in silver books (there are no gold books that I know of) so aren't always right, the background shape was different for silver and gold. The assay office would be able to say for sure, but I'm guessing it might be 1931 rather than 1855, both years are the same font, but with cut corners for gold in both cases according to the assay office that hallmarked it (see attachment).

Thank you so much for sharing this info. Please provide website link / info.

 

[OneKuhlChic]

Thanks @Rhea
I will look it up. This is good information!

Got it!! Super easy to find. Thanks again!

 

[MiniMinerva]

Here are some more shots top facing of the 22ct band with the Victorian pieces:


The yg belcher, the rg buttercup mounting and the navette are 14k, the rest are 18ct.

Oh my goodness! Your Victorian jewels are stunning. The colors and textures are rich and lovely, especially juxtaposed with your new smooth and buttery 22ct band. Thank you for sharing your regal collection and illustrating the comparison between the golds!

 

[GemmaBella]

Oh my goodness! Your Victorian jewels are stunning. The colors and textures are rich and lovely, especially juxtaposed with your new smooth and buttery 22ct band. Thank you for sharing your regal collection and illustrating the comparison between the golds!

Thank you, kindly! The sapphire navette was my great aunt's engagement ring. She left it to me long ago when I was 16. That ring is what started my collection (and love of) of Victorian jewelry. It is a very interesting time period with some remarkable textures as you say and amazing craftsmanship. I always enjoy comparison shots. I'm fascinated with the variety of shades created with the different alloys. It's kind of like soup. One person's recipe is going to be different from the next, giving a different result.

 

[MiniMinerva]

Thank you, kindly! The sapphire navette was my great aunt's engagement ring. She left it to me long ago when I was 16. That ring is what started my collection (and love of) of Victorian jewelry. It is a very interesting time period with some remarkable textures as you say and amazing craftsmanship. I always enjoy comparison shots. I'm fascinated with the variety of shades created with the different alloys. It's kind of like soup. One person's recipe is going to be different from the next, giving a different result.

That is so special that your great aunt’s stunning ring sparked this passion and your aspirational collection! Her sapphire navette is still the star. I’m sure it would have meant a lot to her to know how much her jewel has been loved. I’m just starting out with vintage/antique jewelry, but I absolutely agree: the fine craftsmanship is what I find so compelling! Each piece seems like it was treasured from creation to adornment.

I also love your soup analogy! I think the different shades of gold create a depth to the collection while remaining cohesive. Sometimes the uniformity of modern pieces seems to be lacking this richness and dimension — like how a commercial boxed soup can seem flat compared to one that is small-batch seasoned by a human being.

 

[AllAboardTheBlingTrain]

Certain alloys of 22kt gold can lean more rosy than others (ones that are alloyed with mostly copper). A lot of the 22kt stuff you can buy in India even today looks very rosy, for example. I also have a vintage cluster ring that I bought recently that was sold to me as >70-80 years old, and that is also very rosy in colour, matches my RG pieces better than it does my YG!

 

[Mreader]

Certain alloys of 22kt gold can lean more rosy than others (ones that are alloyed with mostly copper). A lot of the 22kt stuff you can buy in India even today looks very rosy, for example. I also have a vintage cluster ring that I bought recently that was sold to me as >70-80 years old, and that is also very rosy in colour, matches my RG pieces better than it does my YG!

Exactly copper which is why I don’t get why some of the pieces are advertised as YG instead of RG. Bc I thought copper was intentionally used to make the gold a pinkish color.