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Question for leonid, vendors, experts and anyone who wants to answer :} procedure question
- Thread starter strmrdr
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Richard Sherwood
Ideal_Rock
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I miss ol' Barry. He was a New York City dealer to the core.
Tough and knowledgeable with an attitude. Straight out of the Diamond District. Kept things interesting.
These guys are tough to understand if you're not used to dealing with them. They come from another world. The concrete jungle. They might be abrasive and fiercely competitive at times, but they are among the greatest dealers in the world.
I vote we give him a second chance. Just so we can hear him laugh and say "kiss my a__".
Heh heh heh... God I love New York. From a distance.
Tough and knowledgeable with an attitude. Straight out of the Diamond District. Kept things interesting.
These guys are tough to understand if you're not used to dealing with them. They come from another world. The concrete jungle. They might be abrasive and fiercely competitive at times, but they are among the greatest dealers in the world.
I vote we give him a second chance. Just so we can hear him laugh and say "kiss my a__".
Heh heh heh... God I love New York. From a distance.
squirerad
Shiny_Rock
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I second Glittergal's suggestion about starting a new forum section entitled Vendor Vices where certain posts such as a new shape or new-line of H&A diamonds may be more appropriately promoted and/or discussed. I think that we will benefit from knowing that there are more products for selection, and with greater competition may come better pricing (although the internet prices are already darn good).
However, I also see that such a new section where "sellers [can]specifically tout their wares, favorite products or promotions" would go against PS as an entity where commercial revenue from e-vendors is key to its operating longevity. If you allow a vendor basically free promotion of a product that no once else is offering in a forum, then PS would miss out on direct advertizing revenue that can be potentially generated from such new products. In other words, an e-vendor can bypass purchasing promotions time (like the banners streaming at the top) and instead promote their product in a forum at no cost. This would likely mean lost revenue for PS.
JMHO on why although it is an excellent idea, it is likely not to happen.
squire
However, I also see that such a new section where "sellers [can]specifically tout their wares, favorite products or promotions" would go against PS as an entity where commercial revenue from e-vendors is key to its operating longevity. If you allow a vendor basically free promotion of a product that no once else is offering in a forum, then PS would miss out on direct advertizing revenue that can be potentially generated from such new products. In other words, an e-vendor can bypass purchasing promotions time (like the banners streaming at the top) and instead promote their product in a forum at no cost. This would likely mean lost revenue for PS.
JMHO on why although it is an excellent idea, it is likely not to happen.
squire
Mara
Super_Ideal_Rock
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eh I suggested that Leonid be the one to post future 'huge' information tidbits such as new cut launches, pictures and specific explanations that one particular vendor may get crap for posting...but if it comes from the owner as an impartial party then I think people would be less prone to complain. I am all for additional education and I see the line of promotion vs education to be somewhat blurred together at times and there will not always be times when you can easily separate nor would I want to. I want all the info and education I can get, even if others may deem it self-promotion for a moment. Some are more sensitive on that than others. I would hate for the flow of information to be stifled.
However, do have to say Rhino that I think your conspiracy theory on this clique is a bit delusional...but don't take that personal.
You know I love ya...but honestly, maybe Leonid is making these judgement calls ON HIS OWN? Why do you think that he has to have people telling him what to do and he 'just does it'. Give the man some credit, honestly...he came up with this forum and has built it into what it is today, I think maybe he is capable of making decisions on his own without others blaming some mysterious 'clique' for resultant actions?
However, do have to say Rhino that I think your conspiracy theory on this clique is a bit delusional...but don't take that personal.
Superidealist
Brilliant_Rock
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hoorray
Ideal_Rock
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Well, I'm not in on it either...
(I'm always the last to know these things...)
That said, this is an important issue. I agree that I would like to hear more good, honest information on new issues or topics that are informative, and I don't really care who it comes from. However, I don't want to start having to wonder if the answer is biased towards their own promotion everytime a vendor posts.
Leonid has a tough line to draw. Lately, it seems to have been drawn fairly tightly, but in light of all the trolls etc. I can understand his being careful. Maybe he can slacken it up some as he deems appropriate if things calm down.
That said, this is an important issue. I agree that I would like to hear more good, honest information on new issues or topics that are informative, and I don't really care who it comes from. However, I don't want to start having to wonder if the answer is biased towards their own promotion everytime a vendor posts.
Leonid has a tough line to draw. Lately, it seems to have been drawn fairly tightly, but in light of all the trolls etc. I can understand his being careful. Maybe he can slacken it up some as he deems appropriate if things calm down.
aljdewey
Ideal_Rock
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----------------
On 5/4/2004 4:41:51 PM lop wrote:
Well, I'm not in on it either...(I'm always the last to know these things...)----------------
Well, you're not alone, lop......I'm not in on it either, and I'm also in the "last to know" group.
Have to agree with Mara on this one.....I think you're reaching a bit on the clique theory, Rhino. Most of the regulars here (myself included) have no problem being fairly direct, so it wouldn't make sense that we'd have to whine to Leonid instead of telling you what we thought directly. (In fact, the candor in this thread is a ringing proof of that
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When diamond dealers reply to a potential customer it stands to reason that the assistance they might offer could possibly lead that customer, or others who read the thread, to want to become THEIR customer rather than the customer of some other vendor who did not reply or who gave them a poor answer.
Sellers can't offer to sell or hope to provide even unbiased advice without at least the appearance of potential bias. It is indeed a tightrope to walk on.
I have never participated anywhere where diamond sellers have behaved generally so well as a group. One can just tell by the answers how delicately many have walked on the eggshells when formatting a resonse to a question. The occasional little sales pitch is not totally unwelcome and sometimes is simply appropriate. Very few responses have been outright calls to do business with them directly. I don't see this as a major problem on Pricescope. It is too bad that some vendors may feel singled out in some way. I am in no position to judge that. It is a personal point of view and may have validity.
I believe Leonid has done a very good job in allowing freedom of expression, within reasonable bounds. We all know that every post by a professional here has a large audience. This is the basis of advertising. Looking good and sounding good makes for credibility among the potential customer base. That's a valuable property of Pricescope.
For whatever set of circumstances, we seem to have come together here better than most anywhere else. It is a little magical blend of timing, web design, leadership and a touch of luck. I think we are all most fortunate to have been involved in our various ways. Of course, you might disagree. No problem.
There are no doubt occurences where a thread may have been ended or something edited. This is up to the moderator. That's the game and we need to live with it. We sure can't complain about how much Pricescope is costing or the opportunities it presents to each of us.
Sellers can't offer to sell or hope to provide even unbiased advice without at least the appearance of potential bias. It is indeed a tightrope to walk on.
I have never participated anywhere where diamond sellers have behaved generally so well as a group. One can just tell by the answers how delicately many have walked on the eggshells when formatting a resonse to a question. The occasional little sales pitch is not totally unwelcome and sometimes is simply appropriate. Very few responses have been outright calls to do business with them directly. I don't see this as a major problem on Pricescope. It is too bad that some vendors may feel singled out in some way. I am in no position to judge that. It is a personal point of view and may have validity.
I believe Leonid has done a very good job in allowing freedom of expression, within reasonable bounds. We all know that every post by a professional here has a large audience. This is the basis of advertising. Looking good and sounding good makes for credibility among the potential customer base. That's a valuable property of Pricescope.
For whatever set of circumstances, we seem to have come together here better than most anywhere else. It is a little magical blend of timing, web design, leadership and a touch of luck. I think we are all most fortunate to have been involved in our various ways. Of course, you might disagree. No problem.
There are no doubt occurences where a thread may have been ended or something edited. This is up to the moderator. That's the game and we need to live with it. We sure can't complain about how much Pricescope is costing or the opportunities it presents to each of us.
niceice
Brilliant_Rock
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Well said Dave
Hey Strmdr, anytime you start the thread on H&A and our thoughts on it, we'll be happy to step in and comment, but we wouldn't start such a thread ourselves because it would be considered self-promotional for us to say "this is what we think" and start off the thread... Essentially it's one thing for a vendor to start a thread IMO and another thing for a vendor to comment on a thread started by somebody else about their product / specialty. But obviously such a thread would be of great interest to ACA, GOG, SC, etc. who probably share similar opinions to our own and all would bring an interesting point of view for all to consider.
Hey Strmdr, anytime you start the thread on H&A and our thoughts on it, we'll be happy to step in and comment, but we wouldn't start such a thread ourselves because it would be considered self-promotional for us to say "this is what we think" and start off the thread... Essentially it's one thing for a vendor to start a thread IMO and another thing for a vendor to comment on a thread started by somebody else about their product / specialty. But obviously such a thread would be of great interest to ACA, GOG, SC, etc. who probably share similar opinions to our own and all would bring an interesting point of view for all to consider.
Richard Sherwood
Ideal_Rock
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I would ditto Dave's sentiments exactly. I had sat down last night to type out a response and before hitting send I got the blue screen of death saying "physical memory dump" ... grrrrrr.....
Now that I have had a chance to sit back and review this I would like to share some things on my heart.
I did feel singled out in a way as threads I had started were locked. Other members of the trade were also getting ready to board and share more insights and help answer questions about their passion with diamonds and products on the market. However it is very discouraging, not just to me but others who want to participate when they feel they're going to be accused of self promotion. We are here to help people and talk about diamonds. When professionals within the trade are made to feel like what they post is self promotion, even when there is no pitching involved, it just discourages us from wanting to post anything and this is sad. When I sit in front of my monitor I'll read my post 2-3 times and if I feel there's something in my writing that might offend Mr. Clique (be it a person or a group) I delete it and either don't post the answer or just don't respond. We should not be made to feel this way.
Having said that however let me also say this. Leonid ... I apologize to you personally and openly here on the forum if my words sounded to sharp earlier in this thread. I think nothing but the best of you and ever since we've met you've been nothing but FIRST CLASS. I think everyone here would stand in agreement with me when I say that you have managed to organize the most successful web forum on the net concerning the subject of diamonds. You have the finest set of experts here who participate and although I am not able to be here as often as I'd like, always love to check, browse and help people with questions as time allows. Please accept my apology if I have offended you in any way.
There is a sharp distinction between this forum and many others that Dave has pointed out. Everyone here, for the most part gets along excellently. While other forums generate and operate off of a lot of negative energy (of which I happen to be the brunt of some of these), this forum stands in stark contrast as it focuses more on the *positive* aspects. We do not have to accuse and attack other vendors/dealers. We can carry out our conversations like adults and act in an orderly manner. We are about education and helping people and this contributes to making this the best diamond forum on the Internet.
What was discouraging to me is when I write a tutorial in an effort to help people learn about a new product/technolgy/etc. and I am accused of self promotion etc. and the kabash is put on something I thought would be a positive contribution to this forum. As I look back on the Jubilee thread I do understand to a degree the locking of the thread because of the fighting that some had started on there but if anyone reads through what I had written there are no pitches there. Only my lab testing and of course my enthusiasm which was miscontrued.
In closing I would just say to all reading. Let's not discourage experts from coming here and making positive contributions to this forum be it me or anyone. IMO it's what sets us apart. There will always be those who will question the sincereity, honesty and integrity behind those of us who post and I understand that as you do not know me, niceice, Brian, Dave, Rich, and many of the other people who participate here regularly on a personal level. I would hope that the proven test of time has demonstrated this to you but I know there will always be skeptics.
If someone comes in and starts pitching people there are many here who can sniff this out immediately and this person should be approached. I will even ask of the regulars here ... if you see me getting out of line, I am not above receiving correction either but *come to me and show me* and if I need to change certain words or things about my writing style let me know and I'll make the necessary changes. I'm just saying that experts should be able to come to this forum and share freely without having to worry each time they hit *send*. I know this is not a major problem here, I'm just saying this because of what had happened with me and was discouraging.
BTW ... what Glittergal said was a good idea too. Perhaps there should be a forum here somewhere where we can post information on new technologies/products and don't have to worry about people whining, fighting, etc. If everytime we have to reread every post we make to make sure someone will not be offended, many of us who have very little time to participate here will not bother doing so if we have to go through all these mental excersices before hitting send.
While I'm spilling my guts here ...
Someone has said there is a fine line between what some consider self promotion and education. Dave hit the nail on the head perfectly. ANY expert who comes here and offers advice/counsel/education/opinion etc. is walking that tightrope Dave talks about. I KNOW, even if you haven't reported anything to Leonid that some of you interpret this as self promotion while others see it for the educational content that it is. One thing I would also like to make clear to those who think I am here to steer people away from who they're doing business with, or steal every sale, etc. I AM NOT SO DESPERATE FOR BUSINESS THAT I HAVE TO COME HERE TO STEAL OR SHARK SALES. I don't even have the time of day to complete every single email that is sent to us! I am not hurting for business that I have to come here and pitch people. Yes I appreciate business that comes our way via the forum and for this I am grateful but I don't think you'll catch tone or attitude here in some kind of effort to mislead or steer people awry. I come here to help others as time allows and that's the extent of it.
Ok... that's all!
Ex/Ex
Now that I have had a chance to sit back and review this I would like to share some things on my heart.
I did feel singled out in a way as threads I had started were locked. Other members of the trade were also getting ready to board and share more insights and help answer questions about their passion with diamonds and products on the market. However it is very discouraging, not just to me but others who want to participate when they feel they're going to be accused of self promotion. We are here to help people and talk about diamonds. When professionals within the trade are made to feel like what they post is self promotion, even when there is no pitching involved, it just discourages us from wanting to post anything and this is sad. When I sit in front of my monitor I'll read my post 2-3 times and if I feel there's something in my writing that might offend Mr. Clique (be it a person or a group) I delete it and either don't post the answer or just don't respond. We should not be made to feel this way.
Having said that however let me also say this. Leonid ... I apologize to you personally and openly here on the forum if my words sounded to sharp earlier in this thread. I think nothing but the best of you and ever since we've met you've been nothing but FIRST CLASS. I think everyone here would stand in agreement with me when I say that you have managed to organize the most successful web forum on the net concerning the subject of diamonds. You have the finest set of experts here who participate and although I am not able to be here as often as I'd like, always love to check, browse and help people with questions as time allows. Please accept my apology if I have offended you in any way.
There is a sharp distinction between this forum and many others that Dave has pointed out. Everyone here, for the most part gets along excellently. While other forums generate and operate off of a lot of negative energy (of which I happen to be the brunt of some of these), this forum stands in stark contrast as it focuses more on the *positive* aspects. We do not have to accuse and attack other vendors/dealers. We can carry out our conversations like adults and act in an orderly manner. We are about education and helping people and this contributes to making this the best diamond forum on the Internet.
What was discouraging to me is when I write a tutorial in an effort to help people learn about a new product/technolgy/etc. and I am accused of self promotion etc. and the kabash is put on something I thought would be a positive contribution to this forum. As I look back on the Jubilee thread I do understand to a degree the locking of the thread because of the fighting that some had started on there but if anyone reads through what I had written there are no pitches there. Only my lab testing and of course my enthusiasm which was miscontrued.
In closing I would just say to all reading. Let's not discourage experts from coming here and making positive contributions to this forum be it me or anyone. IMO it's what sets us apart. There will always be those who will question the sincereity, honesty and integrity behind those of us who post and I understand that as you do not know me, niceice, Brian, Dave, Rich, and many of the other people who participate here regularly on a personal level. I would hope that the proven test of time has demonstrated this to you but I know there will always be skeptics.
If someone comes in and starts pitching people there are many here who can sniff this out immediately and this person should be approached. I will even ask of the regulars here ... if you see me getting out of line, I am not above receiving correction either but *come to me and show me* and if I need to change certain words or things about my writing style let me know and I'll make the necessary changes. I'm just saying that experts should be able to come to this forum and share freely without having to worry each time they hit *send*. I know this is not a major problem here, I'm just saying this because of what had happened with me and was discouraging.
BTW ... what Glittergal said was a good idea too. Perhaps there should be a forum here somewhere where we can post information on new technologies/products and don't have to worry about people whining, fighting, etc. If everytime we have to reread every post we make to make sure someone will not be offended, many of us who have very little time to participate here will not bother doing so if we have to go through all these mental excersices before hitting send.
While I'm spilling my guts here ...
Someone has said there is a fine line between what some consider self promotion and education. Dave hit the nail on the head perfectly. ANY expert who comes here and offers advice/counsel/education/opinion etc. is walking that tightrope Dave talks about. I KNOW, even if you haven't reported anything to Leonid that some of you interpret this as self promotion while others see it for the educational content that it is. One thing I would also like to make clear to those who think I am here to steer people away from who they're doing business with, or steal every sale, etc. I AM NOT SO DESPERATE FOR BUSINESS THAT I HAVE TO COME HERE TO STEAL OR SHARK SALES. I don't even have the time of day to complete every single email that is sent to us! I am not hurting for business that I have to come here and pitch people. Yes I appreciate business that comes our way via the forum and for this I am grateful but I don't think you'll catch tone or attitude here in some kind of effort to mislead or steer people awry. I come here to help others as time allows and that's the extent of it.
Ok... that's all!
Ex/Ex
pqcollectibles
Ideal_Rock
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Rhino,
It is nice to be seeing your posts again. I look forward to seeing many more of them over the next few months. My advice to you is to just answer the questions as honestly as you always do. Some will love it, some will not, but you will always be you.
(Stated in more metaphysical terms, always be intentional. Focus your intension and never act outside your intension. If you intend to be highly informative and educational and thus gain your reputation as a knowledgable and worthy dealer, then always be informative and educational. If you form and live your intentions, the Universe will support you with the sales needed to make it economically as well as spiritually rewarding. It is not your responsibility to worry about how some of your competitors will feel about this, only it is your responsibility to be true to yourself and to do it within the rules of the forum as set forth by Leonid. He is, as you have stated, a very fair man and will not punish you or others for being informative and educational.)
Wink
It is nice to be seeing your posts again. I look forward to seeing many more of them over the next few months. My advice to you is to just answer the questions as honestly as you always do. Some will love it, some will not, but you will always be you.
(Stated in more metaphysical terms, always be intentional. Focus your intension and never act outside your intension. If you intend to be highly informative and educational and thus gain your reputation as a knowledgable and worthy dealer, then always be informative and educational. If you form and live your intentions, the Universe will support you with the sales needed to make it economically as well as spiritually rewarding. It is not your responsibility to worry about how some of your competitors will feel about this, only it is your responsibility to be true to yourself and to do it within the rules of the forum as set forth by Leonid. He is, as you have stated, a very fair man and will not punish you or others for being informative and educational.)
Wink
Richard Sherwood
Ideal_Rock
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- 4,924
-----------
If you form and live your intentions, the Universe will support you with
the sales needed to make it economically as well as spiritually
rewarding. It is not your responsibility to worry about how some of
your competitors will feel about this, only it is your responsibility to
be true to yourself
-----------
I like this. Get yourself centered, and everything will fall into place around you.
If you form and live your intentions, the Universe will support you with
the sales needed to make it economically as well as spiritually
rewarding. It is not your responsibility to worry about how some of
your competitors will feel about this, only it is your responsibility to
be true to yourself
-----------
I like this. Get yourself centered, and everything will fall into place around you.
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- May 3, 2001
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- 7,516
You got it Richard, the better centered or focused you are on what you want to be, the better the Universe can support you in that focus. A philosopher friend of mine puts it this way. "When the Universe flies over your cup and sees that you are spending all of your time rushing about feeling stressed, it sees that this is what you desire so it brings you more. If it flies over and sees you at peace and focused on a goal, it sees what you need to bring you closer to your goal and fills your cup with those things you need."
It sounds so simple and "touchy feely", but concentrating on what I want to be has changed my life in so many wonderful ways that I spend a lot of time thanking God that I met my friend. It has brought me so much closer to who I have wanted to be all of my life and it has brought me closer to my wife and children at the same time it has helped my business to blossom.
Before I would fret if a door closed. Now I sit back and concentrate on what I want and ask the Universe to help me. (Okay, this is a LOT harder than it sounds sometimes. It took me a couple of days wandering around feeling like a gut shot puppy when a door slammed in my face a couple of weeks ago, but as soon as I sat down and regained focus wonderful things started to happen, not the least of which was a wonderful feeling of peace!)
What a blessing that I had started a dialogue with Leonid just days before that other door slammed and I had started to post here as a result of that dialogue. I have really enjoyed the camradarie that I see here and look forward to being part of it for a long time. A huge door had been opened for me even before the other one was slammed shut, but it was not until I sat down and regained focus that I realized that I was being supported in my needs even before I knew that I needed that support.
Whoa, getting a little too up close and personal here. Anyway, that's my story and I am sticking to it. It works for me and it has brought me closer to my family, improved my business and reminded me that The Almighty works in many strange and wonderous ways.
I have often thought that this business of ours is such a wonder in its self. That it takes people from many races, creeds, and countries working together to bring beautiful stones and metals together to create the little symbols of happiness and joy that we sell. What a privelege to be part of this business, and what a wonderful time to be part of it, when we can reach world wide with our beautiful jewelry without ever having to leave the confines of our home towns unless we want to.
Wink
It sounds so simple and "touchy feely", but concentrating on what I want to be has changed my life in so many wonderful ways that I spend a lot of time thanking God that I met my friend. It has brought me so much closer to who I have wanted to be all of my life and it has brought me closer to my wife and children at the same time it has helped my business to blossom.
Before I would fret if a door closed. Now I sit back and concentrate on what I want and ask the Universe to help me. (Okay, this is a LOT harder than it sounds sometimes. It took me a couple of days wandering around feeling like a gut shot puppy when a door slammed in my face a couple of weeks ago, but as soon as I sat down and regained focus wonderful things started to happen, not the least of which was a wonderful feeling of peace!)
What a blessing that I had started a dialogue with Leonid just days before that other door slammed and I had started to post here as a result of that dialogue. I have really enjoyed the camradarie that I see here and look forward to being part of it for a long time. A huge door had been opened for me even before the other one was slammed shut, but it was not until I sat down and regained focus that I realized that I was being supported in my needs even before I knew that I needed that support.
Whoa, getting a little too up close and personal here. Anyway, that's my story and I am sticking to it. It works for me and it has brought me closer to my family, improved my business and reminded me that The Almighty works in many strange and wonderous ways.
I have often thought that this business of ours is such a wonder in its self. That it takes people from many races, creeds, and countries working together to bring beautiful stones and metals together to create the little symbols of happiness and joy that we sell. What a privelege to be part of this business, and what a wonderful time to be part of it, when we can reach world wide with our beautiful jewelry without ever having to leave the confines of our home towns unless we want to.
Wink
Well, I'm being brutally honest. The jubliee thread started out as informative and interesting. THEN, it crossed the line into self promotion of a new line. I made no bones about it (within the thread). It *evolved* into self promotion. The love fest for "chas" was the final straw for me. Quite frankly, the excitement (for me) about the jubilee was lost. You call it enthusiasm. I saw it as hype. Perhaps it wasn't your intention; but, non the less, what came across. In this instance, a forum for new products, the consumer fully armed w/ the knowledge that it's advertising, is a good one.
I'm *not* singling out one specific vendor - just that this was the example given.
And, I usually see some threads as they are. The vendors are here as an e-commerce site. Nothing wrong with putting your face out there. The only time I feel like the line is crossed is when a vendor either hypes their own stone in a thread OR disses another.
My brutally honest 2cents.
strmrdr
Super_Ideal_Rock
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i dunno f&i i thought it was kinda kewl that he introduced his brother-in-law kinda like introducing family to family.
Id like it if all the regular vendors did intoductions of their employees and got them involved here.
It is kinda kewl to be able to call someplace and know the person that answers the phone atleast a little.
Id like it if all the regular vendors did intoductions of their employees and got them involved here.
It is kinda kewl to be able to call someplace and know the person that answers the phone atleast a little.
strmrdr
Super_Ideal_Rock
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strmrdr
Super_Ideal_Rock
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I appreciate your candidness F&I. This is the kind of feedback I'm looking for. For my own reference when is it you feel I crossed the line? At what point do you feel I was self promoting and I will make a conscious effort not to do this.
Regarding the introduction of my lab assistant Chas ... I noted he was starting to post in a couple of threads and I wanted to make it *clear* that he is an employee of ours and not some shill. I never had the opportunity to formally introduce him and I was hoping that ya'll would give him a warm welcome as he is a very nice and personable guy. Working alongside us I think he can make some valuable contributions to the forum as well. I personally think you're getting carried away using the words "love fest" because the introduction was short & simple.
Here is my quote ...
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While new introductions are being made please allow me to introduce my lab assistant Chas.
FYI, I have 2 younger sisters named Susan and Amy. Amy is full time with us in the store while Susan is home raising 3 little ones. The youngest of those is Brandon which is Chas' avatar.
Chas is married to my sister Susan and is here full time by my side helping me scan and analyse all the new diamonds that come in and is quickly learning the pros/cons in/outs of everything diamond related as he listens to my phone conversations and listens carefully as I give in store presentations (which, shortly will be done on a plasma when we're done renovating). Contrary to most "in-law" relationships Chas and I are 2 peas in a pod and we get along excellently. Working in a store full of women, it is also a relief to have another guy in the store working with me too.
Thanks in advance for the warm welcomes.
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I don't understand what is offensive in my words above. What sentences should I have worded differently to make what I wrote less offensive?
Matter of fact I just went back to read that thread and although I had started it, my participation later on was little to nothing as I was experiencing laptop problems at the time of that post. I am interested to know specifically F&I ... where in that thread did I specifically make the evolve from informational to self promotional? Frankly I just do not see it. From one friend to another please help me out here. Your candid response is appreciated. Is it possible that some people might be overreacting and reading into things there that simply do not exist? I look forward to hearing back from you.
Warm regards,
Regarding the introduction of my lab assistant Chas ... I noted he was starting to post in a couple of threads and I wanted to make it *clear* that he is an employee of ours and not some shill. I never had the opportunity to formally introduce him and I was hoping that ya'll would give him a warm welcome as he is a very nice and personable guy. Working alongside us I think he can make some valuable contributions to the forum as well. I personally think you're getting carried away using the words "love fest" because the introduction was short & simple.
Here is my quote ...
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While new introductions are being made please allow me to introduce my lab assistant Chas.
FYI, I have 2 younger sisters named Susan and Amy. Amy is full time with us in the store while Susan is home raising 3 little ones. The youngest of those is Brandon which is Chas' avatar.
Thanks in advance for the warm welcomes.
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I don't understand what is offensive in my words above. What sentences should I have worded differently to make what I wrote less offensive?
Matter of fact I just went back to read that thread and although I had started it, my participation later on was little to nothing as I was experiencing laptop problems at the time of that post. I am interested to know specifically F&I ... where in that thread did I specifically make the evolve from informational to self promotional? Frankly I just do not see it. From one friend to another please help me out here. Your candid response is appreciated. Is it possible that some people might be overreacting and reading into things there that simply do not exist? I look forward to hearing back from you.
Warm regards,
Nicrez
Ideal_Rock
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- 3,230
Rhino, you know the saying, "You can't please everyone all the time?" Well that applies. Frankly, the only person you should even try to please is Leonid, as he is the man holding the plug.
I appreciated your introduction, as Strmrdr also said. I can't say I feel good about buying expensive items from people I don't know. Hypothetically even if a person chooses not to buy from you, or anyone else at PriceScope, they still have a more comforted feeling of who they are talking to, getting advice and what their story is. Here on the ominous internet, you never know WHO is who, so it's nice to get something upfront.
The way I see it is, if you put more out there, you are also taking on a lot more names and liability for your actions (or ill actions) by informing people of your company and structure, including staff. People will knock down your door in good times, and knock out your door in bad times, and they will have the names to do it with...So thanks for taking that risk as well!
Also, I don't see an introduction as shilling a company or product. "Judy" from those old Time Life ads never sold more magazines, except to those who already wanted them, but perhaps felt more assured that they would be greeted with a nice voice on the other end of the line. If you don't want to buy from GOG you won't. if you do, it's just a nice comfort to know who's there if you ever meet them.
Let it go, sometimes it's possible to piss people off and still be a great person, so long as the majority agrees, the outliers are not as relevant. Perhaps in the future you could post a Who's Who for Chaz (PM Leonid to see if it's OK) and then no one can complain they are offended, because they can either read it or not, lovefest aside...Frankly, I have seen lovefests on this board, and even if not in Rocky Talk, they are out there in the Bridal and wedding posts... Who cares (except Leonid!)
I appreciated your introduction, as Strmrdr also said. I can't say I feel good about buying expensive items from people I don't know. Hypothetically even if a person chooses not to buy from you, or anyone else at PriceScope, they still have a more comforted feeling of who they are talking to, getting advice and what their story is. Here on the ominous internet, you never know WHO is who, so it's nice to get something upfront.
The way I see it is, if you put more out there, you are also taking on a lot more names and liability for your actions (or ill actions) by informing people of your company and structure, including staff. People will knock down your door in good times, and knock out your door in bad times, and they will have the names to do it with...So thanks for taking that risk as well!
Also, I don't see an introduction as shilling a company or product. "Judy" from those old Time Life ads never sold more magazines, except to those who already wanted them, but perhaps felt more assured that they would be greeted with a nice voice on the other end of the line. If you don't want to buy from GOG you won't. if you do, it's just a nice comfort to know who's there if you ever meet them.
Let it go, sometimes it's possible to piss people off and still be a great person, so long as the majority agrees, the outliers are not as relevant. Perhaps in the future you could post a Who's Who for Chaz (PM Leonid to see if it's OK) and then no one can complain they are offended, because they can either read it or not, lovefest aside...Frankly, I have seen lovefests on this board, and even if not in Rocky Talk, they are out there in the Bridal and wedding posts... Who cares (except Leonid!)
Rhino - I'll read the thread later & see if I can come up with specific. But, I did say it was my "impression". Often, it's not just one single thing. It's the direction of the thread.
But, I should go and check to see if something set me off. And, in general, I don't mind people oohh & ahhing over people's e-rings. *THAT's* exciting (both for the ring & the incredible life commitment it means). Off the cuff, it's when a vendor (insert anyone there) starts a thread & most reponses are how super fabulouso something is w/o any meat. It's not as bad here. But, makes me gag over at DT. That was part of it.
F&I - thinking aloud as usual. It's a fine line.
But, I should go and check to see if something set me off. And, in general, I don't mind people oohh & ahhing over people's e-rings. *THAT's* exciting (both for the ring & the incredible life commitment it means). Off the cuff, it's when a vendor (insert anyone there) starts a thread & most reponses are how super fabulouso something is w/o any meat. It's not as bad here. But, makes me gag over at DT. That was part of it.
F&I - thinking aloud as usual. It's a fine line.
- Joined
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- 6,341
I appreicate that F&I and thanks for your response too Nicerez. Listen... at the same time I do not want to beat a dead horse here. If you think it more appropriate to respond via PM that is fine with me. I did think however that everyone would benefit from your response so that vendors/dealers/appraisers who wished to share new information, new and interesting products/technologies, etc. will learn from this experience too. As I reread that thread it was the whining of one person who (IMO) spoiled it for the rest of the group who wanted to learn more. The manufacturer was ready to come on and participate and help answer questions as he knew I was having laptop probs and I thought this would have contributed more to the positive aspects/experience of the PS forum. Perhaps I am mistaken becuase I AM SURE that person would have also complained about that too.
I know Dave Atlas is involved in a new technology which I am dying to learn more about and I think the consumers here would benefit from (contributing to the positive aspects of this forum) plus there have been updates to some technologies regarding the cut grading of fancies (all shapes) which I feel the consumers can benefit from as well. At this point I am afraid to share this information here as I am sure Dave would have 2nd thoughts posting about his project on the forum since he would benefit from the technology he is involved with although it is for the ultimate good of everyone. At this point we will not be sharing any new information until we know we can do so safely and with clear conscience. As Nicerez pointed out ... we do not want to offend Leonid and go against any of his rules. He is DA MAN.
elmo
Brilliant_Rock
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aljdewey
Ideal_Rock
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Rhino, you know I love ya, but I have to say that I agree with F&I on this.
I fully support posting information on new cuts, etc that may come out, and I was glad to see the information on the Jubilee. But let's be honest.....if the purpose is EDUCATION about the stone, that's what it should be limited to.
I reread that thread. I saw the following questions asked in the thread: 1) Is it similar to the Regent in needing a more open setting to allow more light in; 2) How does this compare to the 88-cut diamond?; 3) What will availability by like in total and on larger stones?; 4) How are the measurements taken?
These are all excellent questions that deal with *education* about the stone. All of them went unanswered. That seems to fly in the face of *educational* purposes.
Also, all of these questions were asked on 4/20. When you did come back on 4/21, you posted a lengthy post....and not a single word of it had anything to do with the stone you were educating people about, nor did it address any of the questions asked thusfar. It talked about the people in your store....who helps scan and analyze the stones, who's married to whom, how your presentations will be done on plasma once the renovation is complete (which *does* sound like a pitch, by the way). While all of that is nice background information, it's better suited in the who's who.
I didn't complain to Leonid about it because honestly, I've come to expect it and to me, it's not that big a deal. I don't get ruffled about it...I just move on. You know I don't mince words, and that I'm not shy to offer an opinion against the grain. If I had a problem with it, you know I'm direct enough to say it to you myself.
I don't doubt your sincerity when you say you don't *mean* for it to sound promotional, but nonetheless, you have earned a fairly widespread reputation for "skirting the line". The fact that several people perceive it this way might be worth your consideration.
I'm not posting this to pick on you......I'm posting to *come and show you* as you asked. It's offered with all the best intentions because I hold you in high regard. I appreciate that you participation here, and it would deeply disturb me if anyone felt unfairly singled out or held to a higher unreasonable standard. I'm not going to debate my comments; they are what they are. You can take it under advisement and really consider it, or you can dismiss it out of hand. I'm not offended either way.
I'm also posting this because I don't want to miss out on learning about new cuts because this stuff gets in the way.
I agree with Elmo. I said it was the love fest (that was already going on)for Chas that was the *final* straw. IMHO, the thread veered off track from a "new cut" to introducing your staff. That crossed the line to into self-promotion.
Though Balt may have been *one* voice, doesn't mean some others thought that same sentiment.
Again, I'm all for a forum for introducing a new product.
I concur with Al's assessment. And, I do value your time spent here.
CaptAubrey
Brilliant_Rock
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