Question about importing into the UK from someone who officially lives in the US!

[gwendolyn]

Mellin75''s thread about importing stones/rings into the UK from the US brought my situation to mind. Here''s what I was wondering:

Does anything change with the customs gift thing if I''m ordering from the UK as an American with a US credit card, mailing address, legal residency and bank (which I will need to keep for the next few years, whether I''m living in the US or the UK)? I don''t get legal UK residency until I''ve been here for 3 years, and I haven''t even been here 5 months yet so I''m pretty sure we''ll be engaged before I actually count as a resident here in the UK (again, if we even stay). Anything legally (or morally) wrong with having it sent to myself here as a gift then? Or sent to my parents to send to me as a gift?

Not that I''m sure I would even do that, but it seems like a grey area and was wondering if anyone could clear it up for me, or point me towards someone who might be able to answer my questions.

 

[Cleo]

Hello Gwendolyn!

It''s funny to bump into a fellow Fenlander on here!

As far as I know nothing changes irrespective of your residence status. As far as Customs are concerned, you''re bringing into the country, so duty is payable.

(I''ve actually just got my New Zealand residency through & am heading there in May!).

I was *very* tempted to have my stone shipped to a friend in the USA and have them send it to me as a ''gift''. I see absolutely no legal reason why you shouldn''t do this... although I would certainly make sure you get the package adequately insured. In the end I didn''t do it, as much as I love my friend it was too much of a big thing to trust someone with: although if it had been family I''d have had no hesitation.

After all, who''s to say it ISN''T a gift?

x

 

[gwendolyn]

Date: 1/31/2008 11:03:25 AM
Author: Cleo
Hello Gwendolyn!


It''s funny to bump into a fellow Fenlander on here!


As far as I know nothing changes irrespective of your residence status. As far as Customs are concerned, you''re bringing into the country, so duty is payable.

Ok, that was what I thought would be the case, but I figured it wouldn''t hurt to ask.

Author: Cleo
(I''ve actually just got my New Zealand residency through & am heading there in May!).

Wow, that''s just awesome! I lived for six months in Australia and am kicking myself that I never got over to NZ to see the drop-dead-gorgeous scenery! That is SO exciting!!!

Author: Cleo
I was *very* tempted to have my stone shipped to a friend in the USA and have them send it to me as a ''gift''. I see absolutely no legal reason why you shouldn''t do this... although I would certainly make sure you get the package adequately insured. In the end I didn''t do it, as much as I love my friend it was too much of a big thing to trust someone with: although if it had been family I''d have had no hesitation.


After all, who''s to say it ISN''T a gift?


x

Hehehe, I like how you think!

How would that work for insurance purposes, though, after the package had safely arrived and all, assuming I did have my parents send it to me? I have to show a VAT receipt in addition to the receipt for the ring in order to get insured, don''t I? Or do I just need the original receipt, or an appraisal?

The thing about it that''s weird (and hopefully not illegal; I''m honestly NOT setting out to break the law here) is that, as far as customs is concerned, it SEEMS to be that I''m an American who''s a guest in the UK (on a student visa), and I was actually overly cautious when coming back into the UK last month after visiting my family for a couple of weeks. I got some Christmas presents and bought myself a new coat and was really careful to tell the customs dudes about it so I wouldn''t get hauled off into jail or something, and they looked at me like I was a nut and told me to move on.

So....I don''t get it. Would the game change if I payed my folks a visit again and picked up my engagement ring on that trip? Is the difference that I''m on a student visa, and not a work visa or fiance visa?

 

[Cleo]

Oh my, you must visit NZ if you get the chance... amazing place! I spent 14 months there and LOVED it. I''ve only seen Sydney airport though in Oz, so have yet to explore the other side of the Tasman. We have friends there now so I think we''ll have to go and stay.

You don''t need a VAT receipt to get your ring insured. A receipt from the vendor, or an appraisal will be just fine. DoW paid my duty for me - so I don''t have a receipt from Customs for that. Photos of you with & wearing the ring are quite important for insurance, along with your stone''s lab certificate - for your own records.

PMSL at you declaring the stuff you bought, bless you! I bet you made their day!

If I were you I would certainly buy the ring or stone while you''re over there and just bring it back. I wouldn''t even consider declaring it. Either wear it or carry it in your hand luggage, and post the receipt & paperwork to yourself before you leave so there''s nothing to show you didn''t have it when you left the UK.

Maybe I''m a touch naughty, but why give away money when you don''t have to?!

x

 

[Maisie]

You aren''t exempt from the charges if you call your purchase a gift....


2.4 Gifts

Goods sent as a gift are not free of import duties and import VAT. However, customs duty will not be collected if the amount is less than £7, and import VAT is not chargeable if:

• the value of the gift does not exceed £36
• the customs declaration is completed correctly
• the gift has been sent from a private person outside the EU to a private person(s) in this country
• the gift is for the use of either yourself or your family
• there is no commercial or trade element and the gift has not been paid for either directly or indirectly
• the gift is of an occasional nature only eg for a birthday or anniversary.

Please note the purchase of goods from outside the EU to give as a gift to a relative or friend, whether or not addressed to that person, is treated as a ‘commercial consignment’ for which the import VAT relief threshold is £18

 

[gwendolyn]

Eeeenteresting....You are definitely the devil on my shoulder at the moment, Cleo!

<--you

By the way, are there any photos up of your lovely ring? I just did a search and didn't find anything, but I'd love to see some if you have any.

 

[Maisie]

I telephoned HM Customs to ask about bringing an engagement ring from America to the UK. I was told that its not legal to try to bring something purchased abroad back to UK without paying the charges on it. I was also told that sometimes you need to provide a VAT receipt if you ever claimed off your insurance for the item. If you don''t have a VAT receipt your insurer should accept your purchase receipt with proof that you paid your VAT on import.

I always get shouted down whenever I try to talk about Import and VAT. I am just relaying what I was told by the HM Customs telephone advice service.

 

[gwendolyn]

Date: 1/31/2008 12:46:18 PM
Author: Maisie
You aren''t exempt from the charges if you call your purchase a gift....



2.4 Gifts

Goods sent as a gift are not free of import duties and import VAT. However, customs duty will not be collected if the amount is less than £7, and import VAT is not chargeable if:

• the value of the gift does not exceed £36
  
• the customs declaration is completed correctly
  
• the gift has been sent from a private person outside the EU to a private person(s) in this country
  
• the gift is for the use of either yourself or your family
  
• there is no commercial or trade element and the gift has not been paid for either directly or indirectly
  
• the gift is of an occasional nature only eg for a birthday or anniversary.

Please note the purchase of goods from outside the EU to give as a gift to a relative or friend, whether or not addressed to that person, is treated as a ‘commercial consignment’ for which the import VAT relief threshold is £18

So, an item has to meet all of the conditions listed, or one of them? Because either way, it doesn''t make a lot of sense.

My parents wanted to send me computer software (the new Mac OS, so value over £36) for Christmas, but I had heard at international student orientation here that I would have to pay VAT on it, even if it was labeled as a Christmas present.

And it seems weird if you have to have an occasion to send someone something. I''ve wanted homesickness packages from home, although the only ones I''ve gotten so far are ones I packed before I left, of my own stuff.

So are you saying that I''d have to pay VAT on any presents received without specifically being labeled for some holiday, or have it be worth under £36?

 

[gwendolyn]

Date: 1/31/2008 12:50:18 PM
Author: Maisie
I telephoned HM Customs to ask about bringing an engagement ring from America to the UK. I was told that its not legal to try to bring something purchased abroad back to UK without paying the charges on it. I was also told that sometimes you need to provide a VAT receipt if you ever claimed off your insurance for the item. If you don''t have a VAT receipt your insurer should accept your purchase receipt with proof that you paid your VAT on import.


I always get shouted down whenever I try to talk about Import and VAT. I am just relaying what I was told by the HM Customs telephone advice service.

No, no, it''s ok, I made the thread because I want to know the legalities of it all! Thank you.

The thing that makes me feel weird about it is that my whole record of being is in the US--I can''t get a UK credit card until I''ve been here at least a year, and my US credit history doesn''t count here. I have to keep a US bank in order to pay my US student loans (which will only be paid through US banks for whatever obnoxious reason), and my permanent address is still in the US and will be for the next year, probably. So, it feels weird to shell out 17.5% VAT on something when I''m not paying UK taxes and feel like my whole monetary history means nothing here. That might not make sense the way I worded it...

I''m sure the customs dudes don''t give a damn how I feel, though, so it''s a moot point.

 

[Maisie]

I would call them and ask how it works for a non UK resident to receive purchases from their home country. Their helpline is open daily from 8am - 8pm.

 

[gwendolyn]

Date: 1/31/2008 1:16:53 PM
Author: Maisie
I would call them and ask how it works for a non UK resident to receive purchases from their home country. Their helpline is open daily from 8am - 8pm.

Ok, thanks. Sorry to try to dump all that on you! I sometimes get into that frame of mind here, when I think Brits know everything and I know nothing.

 

[Cleo]

Good point Maisie about the value being under £36 for gifts sent by post. You wouldn''t be able to insure your ring for its full value if you have to declare the value as being under £36 for customs purposes.

Drat.

I appreciate it''s not legal to bring something purchased abroad into the country without paying duty on it (as I''m sure does Gwendolyn!). That doesn''t necessarily mean I wouldn''t do it though... I would say it''s a matter for one''s own conscience.

Having said that, it''s fair for you to point out the rights and wrongs from a legal perspective.

Gwendolyn: I haven''t got any great pics of my ring yet but I''ll try & post some for you. I haven''t tried that yet!

x

 

[ladypirate]

http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/channelsPortalWebApp.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=pageTravel_ShowContent&id=HMCE_CL_000282&propertyType=document

If you pick the ring up while you are in the US, you can bring it through as a personal effect. Here are the applicable parts, as far as I can tell:

4.1 Personal effects

You can claim TI relief for personal effects reasonably required for a journey such as clothing, toiletries, personal jewellery and other articles clearly of a personal nature including pets. An illustrative list of eligible goods is given in our Notice 200 Temporary Importations. You can claim relief for your period of stay in the EC up to a maximum of 24 months.

Sporting firearms and ammunition are also eligible for relief, however you will need to hold a Full TI authorisation, and this requires our prior approval. You should apply on Form C&E 1331 at least one month before you intend to import. The form is available on our website at www.hmrc.gov.uk, or from our National Advice Service who can also advise you where to send your completed application. If we approve the application, we will issue you a TI authorisation number.

If you are a student coming to stay in the EC for the purpose of full time study, you do not need to use the TI procedures for the following items:

* clothing and household linen
* items you will use in your studies, for example calculators and PCs and
* household effects for furnishing your student''s room.

There is a different relief available for those items which covers the whole period of your study. You can claim that relief by declaring the items as explained in paragraph 3.2, and completing Form C3 if appropriate.


4.2 How do I declare personal effects?

For eligible goods under 4,000 euros in value (except pets and firearms):

* if you accompany the goods you can go through the Green "nothing to declare" Channel as explained in paragraph 3.1
* if your goods arrive before or after you and will be declared on your behalf, for example by a fast parcel operator, freight forwarder or other agent, you must ensure you have advised them you are claiming TI relief. To clear their inventory they may need to use Form C21. If this is necessary, Form C21 should quote customs procedure code (CPC) 00 00 40. This identifies that goods are eligible for TI relief and, if under 4,000 euros in value (except pets and firearms), that they can be released without any further customs documents.

Note: if the above is not followed and your goods are declared to free circulation, duty and tax will be collected as appropriate.

To claim relief then, you will need to make a retrospective application for Simplified TI authorisation and provide a written declaration on Form C88 (SAD). If we approve the application, we will hold duty and tax on deposit as security. You will need to make an export declaration on Form C88 (SAD) when the goods leave in order for the security to be refunded.

For pets, or other eligible goods over 4,000 euros in value, a Simplified TI authorisation is required. To apply you will need to:

* make a declaration on Form C88 (SAD) quoting customs procedure code (CPC) 53 00 11 or, where VAT only is due, CPC 53 00 41
* provide security - this will be refunded when the goods leave the EC and you make a re-export declaration on Form C88 (SAD) quoting CPC 31 53 00.

For sporting firearms and ammunition a full TI authorisation is required, see paragraph 4.1. You will need to make a declaration on Form C88 (SAD) quoting customs procedure code (CPC) 53 00 00, or where VAT only is due CPC 53 00 40, quoting your TI authorisation number in box 44 of the form.

For further information about completing the entry see Volume 3, Part 3 of the Tariff.


4.6 What if I want to extend the period of my visit, or decide to live permanently in the EC?

The period allowed under TI relief can, in exceptional circumstances, be extended within reasonable limits. You must write and explain why an extension is needed to our National Import Reliefs Unit (NIRU). Their address is:

NIRU
Custom House
Killyhevlin Industrial Estate
Enniskillen
County Fermanagh
Northern Ireland BT74 4EJ

Tel: 028 6632 2298
Fax: 028 6632 4018
Email: [email protected]

If you decide to live permanently in the EC, your personal effects and vehicle may then qualify for the other reliefs explained in this notice. You must write immediately to NIRU telling them of your decision to live permanently in the EC, and giving details of your imported personal effects and vehicle.


5.1 Can I get relief from duty and tax on transfer of residence?

Yes. You can bring in your belongings or vehicle free of duty and tax so long as you:

* are moving your normal home to the EC
* have had your normal home outside the EC for a continuous period of at least 12 months
* have possessed and used them for at least 6 months outside the EC before they are imported
* did not get them under a duty/tax free scheme (but see paragraph 5.2)
* declare them to us as explained in paragraph 3.2
* will keep them for your personal use and
* do not sell, lend, hire out or otherwise dispose of them in the EC within 12 months of importation, unless you notify us first and pay duty and VAT on disposal. Our National Advice Service can tell you how to do this.

Belongings include clothing, furniture, portable tools of trade, pets and other household and personal effects, but not alcoholic drinks or tobacco products: you will not get relief on those unless they travel in with you and qualify for the duty-free allowances - see paragraph 2.1.

We will normally waive the second and third conditions if you could not meet them due to circumstances beyond your control. Explain the position to our officer when you declare your belongings or vehicle.

Generally speaking, "possession" means "to have" rather than "to own", but there are particular restrictions in relation to company vehicles imported by travelling sales representatives. Our National Advice Service can give you full details.

See paragraph 5.5 if any of your belongings or vehicle were previously taken out of the EC.

Other goods and vehicles imported for commercial purposes will not qualify for this particular relief. However, if you are also transferring your business to the UK, you may be able to claim the alternative relief on imported capital goods. See our Notice 343 Importing capital goods free of duty and VAT.


So there you go--basically, since you''re not a UK resident, as long as you get the ring while you''re in the US, you shouldn''t have to pay duties or taxes on it in the UK.

 

[Cleo]

Gwendolyn, I put some pics of my ring online just for youuuuuuuuu

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/my-1-00ct-ags0-solitaire-in-18ct-yellow-gold-4-claw-setting.77673/

x

 

[Maisie]

Date: 1/31/2008 1:50:38 PM
Author: Cleo
Good point Maisie about the value being under £36 for gifts sent by post. You wouldn''t be able to insure your ring for its full value if you have to declare the value as being under £36 for customs purposes.

Drat.

I appreciate it''s not legal to bring something purchased abroad into the country without paying duty on it (as I''m sure does Gwendolyn!). That doesn''t necessarily mean I wouldn''t do it though... I would say it''s a matter for one''s own conscience.

Having said that, it''s fair for you to point out the rights and wrongs from a legal perspective.

Gwendolyn: I haven''t got any great pics of my ring yet but I''ll try & post some for you. I haven''t tried that yet!

x

I hope my posts haven''t come across as judgemental or me trying to tell you what to do. I genuinely don''t want anyone to get into trouble. I know each person has to decide what they want to do.

 

[Cleo]

Maisie: not at all! *hugs*

Always good to have the voice of reason, and a couple of differing points of view I think.

x

 

[gwendolyn]

Date: 1/31/2008 2:36:30 PM
Author: ladypirate
*snip lots of awesomely useful info*

So there you go--basically, since you''re not a UK resident, as long as you get the ring while you''re in the US, you shouldn''t have to pay duties or taxes on it in the UK.

ladypirate, I could KISS you for all that! You are awesome and fantastic and amazing and fabulous!!!! THANK YOU!!!!!

Cleo, you posted your ring, just for me!! Aww, I''m so feelin'' the love tonight, guys!

So, that''s AWESOME that I can go and pick up the ring myself and not legally have to worry about being a bad person! And the money I thought I would be paying in VAT can now be used to pay for my airfare home to get it! Win-win.