Princess cut e-ring damaged during setting. Now what?

[bellarosa]

Whoa whoa whoa. First of all I wasn't insulting consumers for posting on this site, as obviously I am one myself, nor am I insulting every vendor who posts on here. The key word was "constantly" checking the site. But hey maybe I'm wrong. Maybe they're better multi-taskers than I give them credit for. So if I offended anyone, I apologize.

You're also forgetting one very important fact. I never named Jonathan or his business. It was not my intention to malign his business. He's not the only jeweler in NY rec'd on this site. If I had another post that I was aware of his AV line, well how do you know I didn't visit several jewelers in the NY area? All I did from the outset was try to give a clear picture of the situation so people could best advise. He decided to enter the fray. My guess is ego.

I also never said he doesn't carry nice diamonds, as I said in the comparison test we did, the H&A was very much superior to the other diamond he presented. I don't hide that I think his AV cuts are pretty, and I told him as much, but you'll excuse me if I didn't take at face value that he is the only one who does those cuts. As someone else here attested, he can come across as overly dramatic and glib in real life. It is not unheard for someone to like a product but not the seller, and try to find something similar from someone they trust/like more.

This was supposed to be a happy occasion - I was shopping for my dream ring. I went in predisposed to like this guy based on what I saw and read of him online. In real life I was disappointed, not because he delivered bad news to me but because I don't think he treated me as an equal. You're right no one wants to hear a valuable possession is damaged. All I was saying is he could have presented things in a more balanced way. I really can't believe people can't see the difference between placing another jeweler at fault for devaluing a stone vs user error. It may very well be true, but to not make the distinction? You can't see someone has a vested interest in doing so? If I was a jeweler and I heard that, I would be PO'd.

To the person who said "THEY DON'T MAKE MONEY FROM POSTING HERE. They do it out of the love for their field." how do you know? Do you have access to their books? Personally I think that's overly naive. I don't say there are no trustworthy or sincerely helpful jewelers, I just say my experience has been they are not the norm in my area. If it weren't so, consumers would not devote nearly as much time as they do educating themselves. Yes, there is genuine interest and love of gems (I have that too), but mostly it's protection from getting hosed. You also have to consider what was on the table here: money from the sale of my diamond once it was fixed; and the purchase of a 3 ct ideal cut diamond, new setting, and new wedding band. That's approaching $50,000. I got the feeling this was not the typical sale for him since he doesn't stock 3 ct stones, at least presently for AV. It has to be custom ordered.

Sorry so many found the posts upsetting. Never knew implying someone might use a web site to further their business rather than purely to help others from the goodness of their heart would be akin to claiming the world isn't flat.

 

[Laila619]

Whoa whoa whoa. First of all I wasn't insulting consumers for posting on this site, as obviously I am one myself, nor am I insulting every vendor who posts on here. The key word was "constantly" checking the site. But hey maybe I'm wrong. Maybe they're better multi-taskers than I give them credit for.

It's the word "trolling" that was uncalled for. Many of us came to PS not knowing a thing about diamonds. The knowledge we've gleaned is thanks to Jon and other trade pros who have tirelessly helped and educated posters, and given of their time and expertise without asking for anything in return.

 

[canuk-gal]

HI:

Wishing you success in finding the diamond ring of your dreams.

cheers--Sharon

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I have known Jonathan for 7 years, and if their is any jeweler in the world that is honest, it would be him. I won't go on and on about that, but he has gone above and beyond helping people like me buy and sell diamonds with amazing patience until we find the forever one. I have bought two diamonds from him thus far. I know of no other jeweler who stocks the incredible selection of well cut stones that he does, either. I am sorry he didn't have an AVC in the exact size, color, and clarity you are interested in, but I don't think you'll find a lot of jewelers with a large number of 3+ ct. stones in stock.But I just did a quick search and saw that he lists 27 stones of varied shapes over 3 cts., and you won't find that in most jewelry stores. And in fact, he has 9 AVCs over 3 cts.!!!

Just FYI, part of Jonathan's business model is education of consumers. He does have hundreds of videos and clearly is passionate about diamonds. Another part of his business model is having a local family business as well as an internet business. He is very successful due to that foresight. PriceScope has advertising jewelers and he is one of them. And therefore, it is normal and natural for him to be an observer and occasional participant on this forum. It benefits us and benefits him, just as when other jewelers and appraisers post here.

 

[yssie]

Wow.

A) I am not a Jonathan cheerleader. In fact I have been accused of being anti-Jon.
B) I acknowledge and agree, having met Jon in person that Jonathan is very much a salesman and that his entire persona is very dramatic and may at times come across as glib without him realizing it, perhaps.

BUT...

WOW was that post nasty and uncalled for. Nothing he told you is false, either in your version of the events or his. If you don't care for the method of delivery, that's your prerogative, and you are free to go elsewhere and not give him your business. But the attacks were unnecessary. He didn't harm you OR your diamond. Either YOU or YOUR previous jeweler harmed your stone. All Jon did was inform you of the damage.

Way to shoot the messenger.

As for "a reputable jeweler wouldn't troll internet sites...." that's just ridiculous. There is nothing shady about posting on a popular customer advocacy site.

As for Jonathan "outing" himself. He did nothing wrong except, it seems, be himself. Why should he hide?

Ditto every word.

I think you aren't going to get anything useful out of this site at this point bellarose. You are wrong on many counts, and you are correct on many counts, but pointing those out isn't going to do anything but fuel the fire. I suggest that you find a vendor with whom you are comfortable working and continue your pursuit via that venue.

Of course vendors gain from participating here: by establishing themselves as knowledgeable and trustworthy, and by proving to a discerning market that they produce high-quality goods, they earn references from many people who have come to respect them.

The long-time consumers who have devoted lots of time to educating themselves don't continue to do so because they're afraid of getting hosed - they know enough not to. They're the ones helping newbies like you avoid that fate. And the reason they had the opportunity to educate themselves in the first place is because vendors, appraisers, cutters, and designers have taken the time and effort to share their knowledge - knowledge which, by the way, many in this industry would much rather keep well-shrouded. Your cynicism is well-earned - but the vendors who participate frequently here are the solution, not the trolls.

You mentioned in an earlier post that your old stone was a 1.5 E VS? Generic, unbranded well-cut E/F VS RBs w/o fluor start at ~70k, and a branded stone like an AV would be significantly more. In order to stretch your 50k budget to include ideal-cut 3ct round, setting, and band, depending on what you were thinking about for the setting and band, you may well need to drop to G/H SI or I/J VS. It is very possible that since you're used to a very high colour, you'll note the tint in a G-J.

 

[smitcompton]

Hi BR,

This is kind of normal on PS. When a consumer has a problem with a vendor, the vendor often replies on the thread. I do not know how they are informed, but sometimes its another poster who lets them know they are under discussion. Somebody informs them . although I really don't know all the in and outs of it, I can see how it would jarring to you.

Good as Gold's Jon is a remarkably helpful man. I have always found New Yorkers to be a bit more agressive in their sales tactics, (please no flame) and I just keep that in mind when dealing with the New York vendors. Keep in mind that AVC may be what you are looking for and jon was only seeking to clarify.


Good Luck with your new stone.

Annette

 

[bellarosa]

You guys win [waves white flag]. Mea culpa. I have seen the errors of my ways. I should have said it was a mall jeweler and you would have all flogged the guy.

PS I never said I was looking for an E VS, only that mine is. Duly noted I may be more sensitive to color because of it.

 

[yssie]

The "us" vs "them" mentality is unfortunate but persistent, and non-PS-approved-darlings rarely get the benefit of doubt on here. But that's a double-edged sword - we recommend certain vendors again and again and they become PS-approved darlings *because* so many PSers have positive experiences.

It's true that you didn't specify what shape/colour/clarity you were looking at for your upgrade. Most people tend to prefer upgrades of similar colour/clarity to their original stones, but in any case I'd recommend looking at some stones of similar size/shape to what you want in-person to confirm your feelings on colour - a larger stone also means there's more visible surface area from the side, which is where you'll see body colour most clearly, and different types of faceting can change the apparent face-up colour. Even better if you can take the stones home and play with them for a day or two in various types of lights in your house.

 

[Ella]

PSers if you don't have anything kind and of value to add to the conversation please do not post. We do not need such negativity here.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Re: successful jewels posting on PS
Can you guys name a few that have been posting assisting consumers lately?
Bella- IMO it's shortsighted for any successful business to ignore the Internet.
But clearly, there's a biased environment making it difficult to have a balanced discussion

 

[Rockdiamond]

Bella- a few general facts
1) there's no way to tell when a diamond was chipped in a case like yours
2) small chips are fairly easy to repair generally
3) the chip is not considered a clarity characteristic - so your diamond did not become an I1 due to the chip
4) in the unlikely event there was a tiny imperfection under the chip you could have actually increased the post repair clarity
5) working your existing diamond into a trade in with a jeweler you're comfortable with might be the best way to maximize return and minimize agrivation
Sorry you've been put through this

 

[VRBeauty]

Re: successful jewels posting on PS
Can you guys name a few that have been posting assisting consumers lately?

Just recently I've seen Jon, James Allen, and WF in the form of Texas Leaguer jump in to offer help and/or perspective when their customers have posted here... and usually, their postings helped resolve the issue or reassure their customers.

 

[Rockdiamond]

I was referring to discussion aside from answering questions directly related to their own business's
I mean to say there's a lack of vendors assisting consumers coming to PS with general questions.

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,

The OP wrote about her own experience at a jewelers, not even mentioning who the jeweler was. Its her experience and she is entitled to it. Good Old Gold can and did speak for himself. He doesnt need the help from the pile-ons. In fact he recently said he doesn't come on more often because he feels like he is walking on egg shells on PS. Its hard to believe what people wrote on here. You are more like a bunch of adolescent girls than intelligent and decent women. I say, Curb your tongues. I like David will say to the OP,
Op, I am sorry you were treated so poorly.
Annette

 

[Ella]

A reminder to be kind to everyone. No bashing others. Posts have been removed that violate our policies, please consider this your only warning in this thread.

 

[bellarosa]

I see the mob mentality is alive and well here. I must say the responses were out of bounds. I can take my hard knocks like a big girl, but damn...

Annette, Sharon, Rockdiamond, Ella (and anyone else who was helpful & considerate),
Thank you for exhibiting human decency. Your kindness and ability to think for yourselves is much appreciated.

This has been a real eye opening "education."

 

[Karl_K]

bellarosa,
What did your insurance company say if you don't mind sharing?
I still think that is the best way to handle it.

 

[Rockdiamond]

The "us" vs "them" mentality is unfortunate but persistent, and non-PS-approved-darlings rarely get the benefit of doubt on here. But that's a double-edged sword - we recommend certain vendors again and again and they become PS-approved darlings *because* so many PSers have positive experiences.

It's true that you didn't specify what shape/colour/clarity you were looking at for your upgrade. Most people tend to prefer upgrades of similar colour/clarity to their original stones, but in any case I'd recommend looking at some stones of similar size/shape to what you want in-person to confirm your feelings on colour - a larger stone also means there's more visible surface area from the side, which is where you'll see body colour most clearly, and different types of faceting can change the apparent face-up colour. Even better if you can take the stones home and play with them for a day or two in various types of lights in your house.

Sorry again for what you were put through Bella

Yssie- if you think about the part in bold, it kind of shows how this problem gets worse and worse.
If vendor "XYZ" is getting recommendations all day long, then they have no need to post anything helpful at all- they have their "minions" keep their name out there.
Here's what I see happening due to this type of thing
1) advertising hype becomes FACT as it's repeated over and over again by prominent members. This is really perverse as PS is supposed to "debunk" this hype - not propagate it.
2) If a trade member has people posting their position so thoroughly, they'll never post unless it's to defend something.
The result is that we loose the benefit of participation by that particular trade member- and even the ability for non biased consumers to discuss the practices of that seller.
Net result, less trade member participation, more people steered thoughtlessly to the same type of stones- and people getting trashed for simply recounting their experiences.

 

[motownmama]

Wait - did the insurance company cover it?

 

[Rockdiamond]

Bella, I'd be interested to hear what your insurance company has to say as well- but remember, you have a lot of options.
Their suggestion may not be your best course of action, depending on the nature of damage.
Something that was basically hidden under a prong is generally not that costly a fix percentage-wise, if its a high value stone. of course I can't make specific statements about your diamond, but in general.

 

[distracts]

The "us" vs "them" mentality is unfortunate but persistent, and non-PS-approved-darlings rarely get the benefit of doubt on here. But that's a double-edged sword - we recommend certain vendors again and again and they become PS-approved darlings *because* so many PSers have positive experiences.

It's true that you didn't specify what shape/colour/clarity you were looking at for your upgrade. Most people tend to prefer upgrades of similar colour/clarity to their original stones, but in any case I'd recommend looking at some stones of similar size/shape to what you want in-person to confirm your feelings on colour - a larger stone also means there's more visible surface area from the side, which is where you'll see body colour most clearly, and different types of faceting can change the apparent face-up colour. Even better if you can take the stones home and play with them for a day or two in various types of lights in your house.

Sorry again for what you were put through Bella

Yssie- if you think about the part in bold, it kind of shows how this problem gets worse and worse.
If vendor "XYZ" is getting recommendations all day long, then they have no need to post anything helpful at all- they have their "minions" keep their name out there.
Here's what I see happening due to this type of thing
1) advertising hype becomes FACT as it's repeated over and over again by prominent members. This is really perverse as PS is supposed to "debunk" this hype - not propagate it.
2) If a trade member has people posting their position so thoroughly, they'll never post unless it's to defend something.
The result is that we loose the benefit of participation by that particular trade member- and even the ability for non biased consumers to discuss the practices of that seller.
Net result, less trade member participation, more people steered thoughtlessly to the same type of stones- and people getting trashed for simply recounting their experiences.

David, you've had a lot of thoughtful posts on this subject recently. Kudos. I can't say I've yet internalized everything you've said but it's certainly been food for thought.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Thank you Distracts- and ditto about thoughtful posts.
You're consistently expressing a balanced viewpoint

 

[TC1987]

Re: successful jewels posting on PS
Can you guys name a few that have been posting assisting consumers lately?
...

???
In addition to the ones mentioned, Wink Jones and John Pollard are on here quite a bit.

 

[bellarosa]

The "us" vs "them" mentality is unfortunate but persistent, and non-PS-approved-darlings rarely get the benefit of doubt on here. But that's a double-edged sword - we recommend certain vendors again and again and they become PS-approved darlings *because* so many PSers have positive experiences.

It's true that you didn't specify what shape/colour/clarity you were looking at for your upgrade. Most people tend to prefer upgrades of similar colour/clarity to their original stones, but in any case I'd recommend looking at some stones of similar size/shape to what you want in-person to confirm your feelings on colour - a larger stone also means there's more visible surface area from the side, which is where you'll see body colour most clearly, and different types of faceting can change the apparent face-up colour. Even better if you can take the stones home and play with them for a day or two in various types of lights in your house.

Sorry again for what you were put through Bella

Yssie- if you think about the part in bold, it kind of shows how this problem gets worse and worse.
If vendor "XYZ" is getting recommendations all day long, then they have no need to post anything helpful at all- they have their "minions" keep their name out there.
Here's what I see happening due to this type of thing
1) advertising hype becomes FACT as it's repeated over and over again by prominent members. This is really perverse as PS is supposed to "debunk" this hype - not propagate it.
2) If a trade member has people posting their position so thoroughly, they'll never post unless it's to defend something.
The result is that we loose the benefit of participation by that particular trade member- and even the ability for non biased consumers to discuss the practices of that seller.
Net result, less trade member participation, more people steered thoughtlessly to the same type of stones- and people getting trashed for simply recounting their experiences.

Rockdiamond, quite an astute assessment. I think a site of this type starts off w/admirable goals, but quickly turns into a clubhouse. New members get turned away (literally - I had several old timers tell me I don't belong on PS) and perspectives are no longer unbiased. I'm just a real person recounting a real experience and opinions and I got lashed for it.

Just to update: The insurance company said they would cover it. They didn't specify whether they would cover the cost of fixing it or replacement, my feeling is it's probably the former. I didn't find out yet if my premiums will go up. I'm going to speak to my jeweler first and hear him out. If he's willing to fix it, or better yet upgrade me, that would be preferable to getting the insurance involved.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

The "us" vs "them" mentality is unfortunate but persistent, and non-PS-approved-darlings rarely get the benefit of doubt on here. But that's a double-edged sword - we recommend certain vendors again and again and they become PS-approved darlings *because* so many PSers have positive experiences.

It's true that you didn't specify what shape/colour/clarity you were looking at for your upgrade. Most people tend to prefer upgrades of similar colour/clarity to their original stones, but in any case I'd recommend looking at some stones of similar size/shape to what you want in-person to confirm your feelings on colour - a larger stone also means there's more visible surface area from the side, which is where you'll see body colour most clearly, and different types of faceting can change the apparent face-up colour. Even better if you can take the stones home and play with them for a day or two in various types of lights in your house.

Sorry again for what you were put through Bella

Yssie- if you think about the part in bold, it kind of shows how this problem gets worse and worse.
If vendor "XYZ" is getting recommendations all day long, then they have no need to post anything helpful at all- they have their "minions" keep their name out there.
Here's what I see happening due to this type of thing
1) advertising hype becomes FACT as it's repeated over and over again by prominent members. This is really perverse as PS is supposed to "debunk" this hype - not propagate it.
2) If a trade member has people posting their position so thoroughly, they'll never post unless it's to defend something.
The result is that we loose the benefit of participation by that particular trade member- and even the ability for non biased consumers to discuss the practices of that seller.
Net result, less trade member participation, more people steered thoughtlessly to the same type of stones- and people getting trashed for simply recounting their experiences.

Thankfully I would say that Jonathan provides more diamond education than any other vendor here between what is on his website and on YouTube.

http://goodoldgold.com/Technologies/

http://goodoldgold.com/4Cs/

http://goodoldgold.com/4Cs/#script

http://goodoldgold.com/Articles/

http://www.youtube.com/user/diamondinfoman (there are over 600 videos posted on YouTube and there were many posted via other sites prior to that)

I try to treat new posters with respect even when I disagree. But accusations were made (like purposely holding the diamond report to trick the customer into coming back) that totally and completely are at odds from what we have known about that jeweler over 7 years (and longer for some others). Excellent reputations are earned, and yes, those who are repeat buyers have a LOT of experience to share and that is one of the benefits of the board. Every vendor here has had an unhappy customer at some point. But the ones that get 95%+ positive reviews here have earned their good reputations. And I think it reflects incredibly poorly on another jeweler who comes to the thread to jump on the negative bandwagon against another jeweler. There is a cost to that, not to mention I think it is against the policies here.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Bella, I am happy to hear your insurance company will help and sincerely hope you are able to get the diamond you desire.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Thank you Bella.
First- your situation: IMO you're way ahead of the game not involving the insurance company- especially before you get a better handle on exactly what's going on.
How is the diamond set?
Are there 'V" type corner prongs or balls? Or is it set between two bars?


About the other- PS has gone through a lot of changes over the years- I was kicked off for about 3 years p then the site was sold, now I think it's got the potential to swing back, if there's enough people like me that really continue to be involved, and work towards change.

TC- Both Wink and John are fantastic trade members- with great contributions- however neither is really "in the trenches" helping consumers on a daily basis. ti may be due to time constraints, I can't speak for them- but there's plenty of other trade candidates that could really enrich the entire discussion.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I am bowing out of this thread because we are going to be repeating ourselves, and Ella has already asked us to stop.

And I apologize to Bella for participating in the rabbit trail.

 

[Laila619]

Rockdiamond, quite an astute assessment. I think a site of this type starts off w/admirable goals, but quickly turns into a clubhouse. New members get turned away (literally - I had several old timers tell me I don't belong on PS) and perspectives are no longer unbiased. I'm just a real person recounting a real experience and opinions and I got lashed for it.

You still don't get it--nobody argued with your experience. You were rude for calling someone a troll, and you got called out for that.

Best of luck.

 

[Ella]

Ladies and gentlemen, please remove the snark from the thread. There is no need to call out others whom you disagree with.

Simply state your position or point WITHOUT namecalling or pointing fingers. You are more effective that way and newbies are smart enough to figure out on their own who they trust.

ENOUGH.

This thread will now be closed as it has reached the end of it's useful life. I am sure the OP can open a new thread if she still has questions.