Princess cut e-ring damaged during setting. Now what?

[bellarosa]

8 yrs ago my husband bought my engagement ring from his family's trusted jeweler. I took it in to a highly respected dealer here on PS bc I'm looking to trade up. He puts it under his scope and says "oh dear, this is terrible." Not what you want to hear but ok. He then proceeds to tell and show me there is a fracture/chip near one of the prongs and can't be sold as is. It needs to be polished, at the loss of about 2 pts in weight and a new GIA certificate obtained. He said this can happen w/princesses but I should have been informed of it at the time. My husband is skeptical and thinks that he may be making a mountain out of a molehill in order to lowball us on the consignment price and so that we trust him more than our current jeweler to buy a new stone (to be honest he did engage in some deceptive practices and cheesy sales tactics during our visit so I understand his skepticism). Do you agree my DH has a right to be skeptical? Is it common for princesses to be damaged during setting? Is it really that big of a deal? Did my jeweler act unethically? Do I have a right to ask him to fix it even all these yrs later? My understanding from PS posts is that jewelers are not responsible for damage during setting. I have insurance on it but it was probably purchased after it was set so I don't think they will help right? Also the cut is probably only good-very good - should I just have it recut by someone like BG and how much ct weight should I expect to lose? Can he take it from good to ideal? What's the going rate to sell used diamonds for? If it's 50% or less, I'll keep it and have it made into a pendant.

 

[Gypsy]

Yes, damage is VERY common on princesses. If you doubt the jeweler have it sent to an appraiser, honestly you should have done so anyway. I recommend Neil Beaty.

 

[bellarosa]

Thanks but it would be much more convenient to find a trusted appraiser in NY.

 

[Alexiszoe]

You can contact David Wolf from Just Appraisers, he's in NY and several PSers have had positive experiences with him.

 

[distracts]

What's the going rate to sell used diamonds for? If it's 50% or less, I'll keep it and have it made into a pendant.

Yes, it's usually about half of retail on the secondary market... but anyone buying it to resell is likely to offer you less, since buying it is a risk for them as it may sit in their inventory being unsold for a long time. If you have something highly coveted you might be able to get 75% of retail, but a chipped princess isn't going to get that. And that chip lowers the stone's clarity to I1 or I2, so remember any offers he gave you are likely based on that. (And to give you an example, on the PS Diamond search I couldn't find an I1 princess, but a 1.2 G VS2 princess is 9k and a 1.2 G SI2 princess is 5.5k, so a 1.2 G I1 might be, idk, 4k or something, so reasonably you might in that case be offered a max of 2k.)

And yes, princesses are often chipped during setting, and often that is not disclosed. It's certainly unethical but it's also common. I'm afraid that this many years later there is no recourse with the original jeweler, as princesses can also be chipped more easily on the corners during wear, because those corners are fragile, and there's nothing now to prove that your original jeweler chipped it during setting vs you chipping it during wear. Insurance may cover it either way, as long as your original insurance documents show it was not chipped upon being insured, but you'd have to ask and if you are trying to sell it idk what the benefit of having it replaced is, really.

eta: If you can afford a new one without trading in your old one, I'd definitely see about getting it recut to be more ideally cut and setting it in a pendant. I believe a lot of the PS ladies who have upgraded have their original stones in pendants, and it's a lovely way to keep your original diamond close to your heart.

 

[bellarosa]

Wow this just keeps getting better and better. The downgrade in clarity wasn't even mentioned, but I guess it makes sense. It's a 1.5 E VS2. So polishing should maintain the original clarity or even improve it? If he said polishing would take care of it, the chip can't be that bad right? It's no wonder most diamond dealers have lousy reputations and we stress over this kind of purchase...and I say this coming from a long line of jewelers.

 

[yssie]

Not sure what you mean by deceptive practices, but if you truly feel that this vendor was looking to deceive you then an appraisal by a respected independent appraiser is that much more important. That's the only way you'll get an objective review of what you're dealing with.

Ditto everything distracts wrote re. trade-in value and whether or not it'd be worth getting insurance involved (they may cover it but your premiums will go up).

 

[JulieN]

Wow this just keeps getting better and better. The downgrade in clarity wasn't even mentioned, but I guess it makes sense. It's a 1.5 E VS2. So polishing should maintain the original clarity or even improve it? If he said polishing would take care of it, the chip can't be that bad right? It's no wonder most diamond dealers have lousy reputations and we stress over this kind of purchase...and I say this coming from a long line of jewelers.

No, it can't improve it, it can only make it as good as it used to be. We don't know how bad the chip is. It could have been chipped at any time, at setting or after. You need an appraiser to tell you these things.

 

[bellarosa]

So an appraiser can definitely tell if the chip was the result of use or improper setting? Is it typical for diamonds to chip during normal wear & tear or more so for those who are hard on their jewelry? I fall into the former category. Sorry for all the questions. I'm just baffled by this situation. I thought diamonds were more durable, but I can understand how a princess would be more susceptible to breaks.

 

[Karl_K]

So an appraiser can definitely tell if the chip was the result of use or improper setting?
The problem is a hit just so on the diamond or prong can cause the same damage as setting damage. So I would say no to definitely.

Is it typical for diamonds to chip during normal wear & tear or more so for those who are hard on their jewelry?
It happens even with the best diamonds, settings, and workmanship. Diamonds have perfect cleavage so its a more a matter of where and what angle they are hit than force and what they hit.

I fall into the former category. Sorry for all the questions. I'm just baffled by this situation. I thought diamonds were more durable, but I can understand how a princess would be more susceptible to breaks.
princess corners are weak both from cleavage and design.

Is the ring insured?
It might just be better to let the insurance company deal with it and take a settlement if its properly insured.

 

[bellarosa]

Thank you all for the explanations and advice. I really appreciate it. While disappointing news, I am now better informed. The ring is insured. I will contact the insurance company (Jeweler's Mutual I think) and see if they cover this kind of damage and how it will effect my premiums. It is certainly making me think twice about upgrading since if something like this happened on a much more valuable stone, that would be hard to bear.

 

[Gypsy]

Thank you all for the explanations and advice. I really appreciate it. While disappointing news, I am now better informed. The ring is insured. I will contact the insurance company (Jeweler's Mutual I think) and see if they cover this kind of damage and how it will effect my premiums. It is certainly making me think twice about upgrading since if something like this happened on a much more valuable stone, that would be hard to bear.

I think this is best. Just tell them it's chipped, and let them tell you what to do from there.

You could have done it yourself. Princesses are not great choices for durability. Nor is anything else with a point, unless you really protect it, like in a bezel. And even then, during setting things can happen. If you do upgrade and want a square, I would consider a cushion. No corners to chip.

 

[bellarosa]

No more squares for sure! It would be a round if anything.

 

[canuk-gal]

Thank you all for the explanations and advice. I really appreciate it. While disappointing news, I am now better informed. The ring is insured. I will contact the insurance company (Jeweler's Mutual I think) and see if they cover this kind of damage and how it will effect my premiums. It is certainly making me think twice about upgrading since if something like this happened on a much more valuable stone, that would be hard to bear.

I think this is best. Just tell them it's chipped, and let them tell you what to do from there.

You could have done it yourself. Princesses are not great choices for durability. Nor is anything else with a point, unless you really protect it, like in a bezel. And even then, during setting things can happen. If you do upgrade and want a square, I would consider a cushion. No corners to chip.

This. BTW, you had a bit of rotten luck, but it doesn't necessarily follow that will be the case going forward. You may upgrade and wear the ring for decades without incident. You insured your ring--very smart girl; please don't let this unfortunate business allow a big "chip" on your shoulder. OK terrible joke, but you know what I mean.....

cheers--Sharon

 

[bellarosa]

Oh and Yssie, just to illustrate some of the deceptive practices of the jeweler in mention...I asked to see a H&A compared to a regular Excellent cut RB, bc I wanted to see if the premium on the H&A was worth it. He brought out 2 stones - one obviously an ideal H&A and the other vastly inferior. I asked him is this an Excellent cut? and he said no it's good to fair. So how can I compare apples to apples? When called on it, you could tell he was a little flustered. We also had to ask for our GIA cert 3 times before he forked it over - he kept "forgetting," I know this is something some jewelers do to get you to come back.

LOL Sharon, it's hard not to be cautious, perhaps even jaded, moving forward. No one ever tells you these things can happen. You have to learn everything the hard way. I mean I just learned my diamond went from ~$12K to <$4K possibly before even driving it off the lot - and I didn't even know it! That's a hard pill to swallow. You go in w/the best intentions trying to get the best product in your budget, not expecting to steal the thing but just get a fair price, and these guys take advantage of all the obscurities the diamond market is riddled with. Nothing is transparent. Granted I didn't pick my stone, but I feel bad for my husband who now feels he has egg on his face when all he did was try his best. My great grandfather & grandfather (and 5 uncles) were jewelers and they never treated customers that way. They had a lot more integrity than that. I realize this is the exception rather than the rule. Maybe one day I'll find that rare trustworthy jeweler (he'll be a lucky man bc I have a real jewelry addiction) and feel confident enough to move on from this incident.

Rant over. Done wallowing now

 

[distracts]

I don't ever count on finding a jeweler that is "trustworthy" to my standards. I count on being educated and knowing enough to not have to put my trust in someone else whose goals are different than mine.

 

[canuk-gal]

HI:

BR:

Your concerns are well spoken. Your trust has been shaken.

Perhaps you need some time to think about your options--what your policy provides, etc.

cheers--Sharon

 

[diamondseeker2006]

This is exactly why we have insurance. Hopefully they will give you the option of a credit for the value of the stone and then you can add to that for your new stone. This could turn out to be a blessing in disguise. And I agree that there is no way you can know for sure when the diamond corner chipped.

 

[Rhino]

Hi bella and all,

Just for clarification I am the jeweler in NY who bella brought the diamond to. I was open and honest about what you had in your possession and showed you plainly how the diamond was chipped and how it extended under the prong under our microscope. I had brought your GIA Report (not your diamond) to my office to research what comparable diamonds were going for and what it could possibly sell for on the open market (after repolishing) should you consider consigning it or selling it on the open market. I did not deliberately "forget" your report in my office. I have no reason on earth to do that. Also when I showed you the two rounds I told you plainly we were comparing a GIA good to a one of our hand picked H&A's. When GIA Ex's come to our store that have extraneous leakage we immediately return them to our suppliers and do not stock such diamonds. I'm sorry that you think I am deceptive but I have not built my reputation both locally and online by being dishonest with consumers and I was completely upfront and honest with you the whole time you were in our store.

Regards,
Jonathan

 

[madelise]

My great grandfather & grandfather (and 5 uncles) were jewelers and they never treated customers that way. They had a lot more integrity than that. I realize this is the exception rather than the rule. Maybe one day I'll find that rare trustworthy jeweler (he'll be a lucky man bc I have a real jewelry addiction) and feel confident enough to move on from this incident.

Rant over. Done wallowing now

Is your family still in the jewelry business? Why don't you use them as jewelers?

Trustworthy jewelers are not rare. This whole forum is comprised of independent users who have many many happy stories about their vendors. I'm sorry you are upset about your situation, but I hope you do realize that not all jewelers are out there to "get" you. There are many, such as a variety of maul jewelers, but PS is extremely "pro"sumer, and I have doubts that any well mentioned PS jeweler had intentions of being anything but transparent. There are jewelers here I won't use, but it's definitely not because they weren't being honest. I have found all the PS raved jewelers I have encountered and worked with to be extremely honest, and each with their own niche of specialty. I may be biased, but I don't think the jewelry business can get any MORE transparent than the particular vendor you are speaking ill of.

I am happy for you that you were well informed enough to get insurance on your ring, and hope that they will rectify your situation, and maybe give you the value your ring was worth towards your new upgrade. I hope you all the luck in finding a jeweler you feel at home with.

And if you do want more information on the princess cut being susceptible to damage, do a quick search for "chipped princess" here. There are many threads with users posting about their chipped princesses. Here is my favorite, and maybe this will give you hope if you feel like going the route of recutting your own diamond: https://www.pricescope.com/communit...efore-and-after-pictures.167918/#post-3056186

 

[bellarosa]

Thank you madelise. I don't use them because my grandfather is dead and the rest are in another country.

 

[bellarosa]

Not sure why you outed yourself but if you want to go there... That is your version of events. When you start off a conversation by exclaiming you have a travesty on your hands, you're priming the pump to make the person insecure and believe all that follows. Then you follow up w/oh it's common, you just polish it and you'll lose minimal weight, it makes no sense. If it's such an easy fix & so common why make such a big deal about it to start? You also never mentioned that the stone could have been damaged due to my own fault. You specifically said it was due to setting, which I am now learning may or may not be true, but I believe it was said to make me distrust my jeweler. Is that forthright on your part? Is it right to put down others to prop yourself up?

Certainly you did not tell me beforehand that your stone was a good cut or else I wouldn't have asked the question. So it's ok to stock "good" cuts but not excellent w/leakage, right...I suppose you'll say because it's unfair to have someone pay for an excellent when there are performance issues, but if you're so selective about your inventory, you wouldn't carry either.

The point is certain things were said, and others omitted, to lead us down a path to thinking what you wanted us to think. At the end of the day, we didn't respond well to your sales tactics because if there's anything we can't stand, it's being treated like we're stupid.

Safe to say those who have such established and successful businesses don't have time to constantly troll Internet chat rooms.

 

[ForteKitty]

Safe to say those who have such established and successful businesses don't have time to constantly troll Internet chat rooms.

I think you just insulted all of the vendors in this forum, most of whom run very successful businesses. Just wondering, what did you expect the vendor to say? "great news, your diamond's chipped!"? Of course it's terrible. Nobody wants to know their diamond is chipped. Even tho it may be an easy fix, most people still get upset.

 

[madelise]

Safe to say those who have such established and successful businesses don't have time to constantly troll Internet chat rooms.

BR, you are wrong. I don't know what the heck happened when you stepped foot into GOG, but don't go insulting a man and his business because he has the time to post on NOT A CHAT ROOM, but a prosumer board. Jon has dedicated much of his time educating consumers for YEARS. He DOES have an established and successful business. He carries many propriety cuts, and has created the August Vintage Round.. the exact stone you yourself have described to seek in your other thread. I don't care if you're upset over your situation, and I don't care if you two duke it out over whatever happened that day. BUT DO NOT go insulting jewelers for posting on the internet. Do you seriously think that successful people can't "troll" the internet? Where the hell do you think all of PS'ers come from? UNSUCCESSFUL people? We are all obviously VERY successful if we can afford to spend money on luxury items. But we all spend our lovely expensive time here on PS because we love participating with others who share a similar passion for diamonds and jewelry. We love spending our time getting to know each other, and helping newbies like yourself. We love educating consumers.

MANY of our lovely PS jewelers and suppliers post here on PS. You are not only insulting Jon here, but insulting every one of the vendors who post here by connoting that anyone who posts is not established and successful. THEY DON'T MAKE MONEY FROM POSTING HERE. They do it out of the love for their field. I have enjoyed ALL of our vendors' posts, and informative lessons. The vendor at hand has taught many people the differences between diamonds, and has invested a lot of time and money to create the DiamondInfoMan series on YouTube. What noobie PS'er HASN'T referred to his videos for an objective lesson? I said in my last post that GOG is as transparent as can be, and I stand by that. People are allowed to have their own biases and favoritisms for which vendor they like. BUT DO NOT GO INSULTING PEOPLE FOR HAVING THE TIME AND PASSION TO POST ON THE INTERNET.

 

[Gypsy]

Wow.

A) I am not a Jonathan cheerleader. In fact I have been accused of being anti-Jon.
B) I acknowledge and agree, having met Jon in person that Jonathan is very much a salesman and that his entire persona is very dramatic and may at times come across as glib without him realizing it, perhaps.

BUT...

WOW was that post nasty and uncalled for. Nothing he told you is false, either in your version of the events or his. If you don't care for the method of delivery, that's your prerogative, and you are free to go elsewhere and not give him your business. But the attacks were unnecessary. He didn't harm you OR your diamond. Either YOU or YOUR previous jeweler harmed your stone. All Jon did was inform you of the damage.

Way to shoot the messenger.

As for "a reputable jeweler wouldn't troll internet sites...." that's just ridiculous. There is nothing shady about posting on a popular customer advocacy site.

As for Jonathan "outing" himself. He did nothing wrong except, it seems, be himself. Why should he hide?

 

[VRBeauty]

Way to shoot the messenger.

I think this might be part of what's going on here. Jonathan was the bearer of bad news, and as a result all of his actions were viewed with suspicion.

Bellarosa - I think you should follow Karl's advise and see what your insurance company says. You just found learned that the stone is damaged, and it's insured for an amount that does not reflect that damage, so from an insurance perspective,when the damage happened should not be a factor.

Good luck.

 

[sonnyjane]

There's blood in the water now. This could likely get ugly quickly.

I'll just say that finding out your diamond is chipped is a huge bummer, so if someone broke that news to me, I'd probably be upset if they dismissed it as no big deal. Also your comment about posting online was quite harsh, so if you decide to stay on PS, I'd apologize and realize that this site is so helpful and informative because of the people you've insulted.

 

[Laila619]

Safe to say those who have such established and successful businesses don't have time to constantly troll Internet chat rooms.

Lots of successful PS vendors are on Pricescope, a DIAMOND and JEWELRY forum for both vendors and consumers. It's not an "internet chat room." No need to be insulting.

Rhino has provided PS with invaluable tutorials and knowledge for years.

 

[Laila619]

It's common for princess cuts to be damaged during setting. The sharp corners are prone to chipping. I'm sorry that happened, but I wouldn't assume anyone is trying to get you to not trust your jeweler. Maybe your original jeweler didn't even know he did it.

 

[distracts]

Safe to say those who have such established and successful businesses don't have time to constantly troll Internet chat rooms.

You know, I was giving you the benefit of the doubt with your experiences (everyone has different experiences with jewelers, even ones others like!), even though a lot of your posts have sounded really naive, until you said this. MANY vendors take time out of their schedules to not only answer concerns on here about their businesses (there has been more than one occasion where a concern aired on here resulted in a resolution that was not otherwise forthcoming) but ALSO to educate people about what they do, the ins and outs of diamonds/gemstones and the jewelry trade. This is something they do because they are good people and want to make sure everyone has the info they need to make the best choices. It's part of the entire purpose of PS, and one of the many good things about it. So don't go around insulting them for doing that, kthx. That's probably the fastest way to make everyone on here stop helping you. No one wants to help someone who is ungrateful about it.

I agree with VRBeauty that it sounds more and more like you're just POed at Jon because he informed you your diamond was chipped. The only two possibilities are that your previous jeweler chipped it or you did. You'd probably be MORE POed if he said you did it. There's no GOOD way to deliver that news, especially since in the many years you had your diamond you never found out it was chipped, either through a regular check, appraisal, or by noticing it yourself. THAT part is the travesty, even if it's a simple fix.

And btw, Jon didn't really need to "out" himself... at least I had figured out which jeweler you had likely been to by your previous posts... just "PS-recommended" and "NY area" was enough to give it away as probably him, especially since you were looking to trade up.