Price Differences vs. Quality: Leon Mege v. Taffin v. Garrard

[mrssalvo]

Date: 6/23/2007 10:15:07 AM
Author: decodelighted

Date: 6/23/2007 10:06:21 AM

Author: mrssalvo

Date: 6/23/2007 9:39:47 AM

Author: diamondseeker2006

Woulldn''t it be funny if it turned out that Leon did Taffin''s pave work?

it seems to me, quite possible

I thought the same thing ... but for a random reason: 100% seems to be the standard industry mark-up. If Leon''s work & materials cost 5K ... 10K is *exactly* what a reseller would charge.

yep, agree 100%...

 

[Art Nouveau]

Fanboy,

It seems to me that your heart is set on Taffin and you are just trying to justify the extra $5000. If you can afford it, just do it and never look back. If you don''t, you will always wonder ''what if''. Many ''big name'' designers are charging $10,000 or more for settings, so that is not an outrageous amount. Also go to James Givenchy while you have a chance. After he becomes more famous, he may not do custom work with clients'' stones anymore. I know this for a fact that many big name designers only want to sell the whole piece. Stop the agony and just go to Taffin. Make sure you let James Givenchy know what wedding band you have in mind, because it may make a difference to the design of the engagement ring. I''m sure your fiance will love the ring and appreciate all the efforts you have put into the project. It''s nice to be "surprised" sometimes. Just make sure you post pictures when the ring is done. Good luck!

AN

 

[fanboy]

Date: 6/23/2007 1:53:33 AM
Author: surfgirl

Ahh, New User, this is beautifully said. Exactly! What an experience to go through together, eh? Now that''s a lovely experience. fanboy, if people are getting annoyed, it''s because you keep asking the same questions over and over and over ad infinitum (of course the continued ''bespoke'' speak and references to ''stations of life'' isn''t helping, but then again, perhaps my station is lower than yours

and all this bespoke-speak is going over my head) . People here love talking diamonds and erings, but you''ve had threads for all aspects of this ring. You have already asked if we think Leon is better than Taffin is better than Garrard, etc. At this point it doesn''t matter what WE think, it only matters what YOU think. If, to your eyes, a LM pave ring is not better quality than a Taffin, then again, LM is NOT right for your project. Your choice is made.

As for this comment:
''I did not mean to imply that there is anything necessarily wrong with a woman that wants to be involved in designing her engagement ring. I did mean to imply that whether such a thing is right or wrong is entirely dependant upon the nature of that woman''s relationship with her boyfriend/fiance.''

I certainly do believe you were inferring that those of us with specific tastes and desires for our erings were somehow uncouth or tasteless because we know what we''d like (or would at least like to participate in the process of deciding what it is we love!).

As for this comment (I clearly have far too much time on my hands):
''Under your school of thought, only women who overtly express a desire or need for an engagement ring should receive lavish rings, while more modest women should receive simple ones. Frankly, I would find it in great distaste if my girlfriend spent significant time discussing what she wants for an engagement ring.''

Well yes, women who are ''modest'' usually do not want erings that are blinged out and lavish. That''s because they''re ''modest''. That''s what modest usually infers, doesn''t it? Perhaps I need to consult my Oxford English unabridged dictionary as I''ve mainly been using a Webster''s for far too long, but I thought modest meant ''simple'', ''demure'', ''understated''. You describe your lady as that, and yet you want an asscher that is pave''d to the nth degree. So yes, people will question you. And will bring up the question of WHY you refuse to include the lady in the process since she appears different - by your own description - than the ring you are trying to ''bespoke'', so to speak (heh...try saying *that* ten times fast!).

You seem terribly offended that some have commented on your relationship but what do you expect when you say things like you''d never want to be with a woman who discusses what she''d like in her ring. Those are comments that appear quite controlling and you''re posting on a board that is primarily composed of women who are quite confident in their tastes and opinions (and their love of diamonds!). Just something to consider...opposing viewpoints and all that...cheers.

1. My ''station in life'' only came up because you raised the issue of my finances and the cost of this endeavor.

2. ''Bespoke'' is a word with a specific meaning; I''m sorry if vocabulary offends you.

3. If you ''certainly do believe'' that I am inferring women with ''specific tastes and desires'' regarding their engagement rings are ''uncouth or tasteless'', why don''t you point out where I''ve said that? The most I have sais is that context is definitive: it depends on the relationship. Are you saying that all relationships should be like yours and you are unwiling to understand different ones?

4. When you talk about participating in the process of creating a ring you ''love'', please understand that not every woman ''loves'' her ring the same way. Some might be even happier with a ring that she didn''t pick. Is that concept so hard to understand? Other women in this discussion have already confirmed that they feel this way. I know personally that my most cherished possessions are those that were given to me despite the fact that they were not just like what I would have chosen myself; they are more cherished because I know how much love and effort went into giving them. My girlfriend trusts me to do the same for her.

5. By ''modest'' I mean a women that did not like talking all day about what she wants for her engagement ring. My girlfriend is a modest person but she has a great deal of style and taste. She dresses very well and understands how to enjoy the luxuries of life. Part of the reason why I love her so much is because she can be glamorous yet maintain her humility. Modesty is a virtue of character and outlook, and does not at all connotate that the modest person is somehow homely, unglamorous, unremarkable, or uninterested in the finer things.

6. I''ve answered the question why I don''t involve my girlfriend more a thousand times: because she would rather not be involved. Clearly, you do not understand or accept this answer, in which case you either do not trust me or you don''t think my girlfriend should have such a preference. The last time I checked, ''control'' is making someone do what she doesn'' want to.

7. I pointed out that I wouldn''t want a girlfriend who discusses her engagement ring before being proposed to because you persist in attacking me as a person who would go through this process without consulting his girlfriend. I also pointed out that I''m not everyone; I readily accept that people shape their relationships differently and have different expectations for their significant others.

8. I may be mistaken, but I get the feeling that you are sensitive about socioeconomic disparities. Yet, this forum is about diamonds, inherently unnecessary, extravagent things that are very expensive. Anybody earnestly participating here is indulging themselves in extravagence, myself included.

 

[angeline]

Hey, can I be the first to offer..... PIE!!!

 

[fanboy]

Hey, I like pie. I wonder if I can have one made for me bespoke.

 

[Kaleigh]

Date: 6/23/2007 11:14:10 AM
Author: angeline
Hey, can I be the first to offer..... PIE!!!

YUMMO!!!

 

[iheartscience]

Date: 6/23/2007 11:16:40 AM
Author: fanboy
Hey, I like pie. I wonder if I can have one made for me bespoke.

Actually, my mother is a master of bespoke pies. Her pies start at $10,000...

 

[angeline]

well I was going to offer next a slice of Tarte Tatin...given your station in life

 

[NewUser]

Fanboy - it is pretty clear to many here that you really want to go with Taffin and are just looking for a reason to justify the extra $5k. Well, you can justify it the same way you can justify paying $1000 for a Louis Vuitton purse. There are many purses just as high quality on the market as LV but that cost half as much. What you are paying the extra money for with LV is not the quality of the workmanship or materials (most are canvas purses for goodness sakes), it is the designer name.

It seems to me like you know in your head that the $5k price differential isn''t worth anything more than the designer name but are trying to justify it based on quality of the work because you really want that designer name attached to the ring but don''t want to admit to yourself that that is all the extra $5k is going to get you. Now if these designer pieces command more at resale, the $5k extra may be a better investment in the long run if you plan on reselling the ring at some point in time. But like someone else pointed out, it is a gamble because a hot designer name today may or may not command more at resale in the future.

The other thing you might want to consider doing with the extra $5k if you use LM instead of T is to put it toward the cost of insurance on the ring. The center stone would be pricey to replace if the ring is lost or stolen and I would think you would want to keep it insured. Over the long term, the cost of insuring it adds up pretty quickly. Just something to think about.

 

[Harriet]

Fanboy may have irritated some people by asking the same question repeatedly. However, I don''t understand why some have taken umbrage at his use "bespoke." The choice between that and "custom" is a matter of semantics. Furthermore, I don''t umderstand the similar reaction to his use of "station in life." Fanboy did preface it by "fortunately." Like it or not, some have more than others. Fanboy appears to have acknowledged that happenstance plays a role in socioeconomic disparities.

 

[NewUser]

Date: 6/23/2007 10:29:20 AM
Author: Art Nouveau
Fanboy,

It seems to me that your heart is set on Taffin and you are just trying to justify the extra $5000. If you can afford it, just do it and never look back. If you don''t, you will always wonder ''what if''. Many ''big name'' designers are charging $10,000 or more for settings, so that is not an outrageous amount. Also go to James Givenchy while you have a chance. After he becomes more famous, he may not do custom work with clients'' stones anymore. I know this for a fact that many big name designers only want to sell the whole piece. Stop the agony and just go to Taffin. Make sure you let James Givenchy know what wedding band you have in mind, because it may make a difference to the design of the engagement ring. I''m sure your fiance will love the ring and appreciate all the efforts you have put into the project. It''s nice to be ''surprised'' sometimes. Just make sure you post pictures when the ring is done. Good luck!

AN

These are all excellent points!

 

[NewUser]

Date: 6/23/2007 12:01:17 PM
Author: Harriet
Fanboy may have irritated some people by asking the same question repeatedly. However, I don''t understand why some have taken umbrage at his use ''bespoke.'' The choice between that and ''custom'' is a matter of semantics. Furthermore, I don''t umderstand the similar reaction to his use of ''station in life.'' Fanboy did preface it by ''fortunately.'' Like it or not, some have more than others. Fanboy appears to have acknowledged that happenstance plays a role in socioeconomic disparities.

It comes across as pretentious and haughty to some. Other people aren''t bothered by it and may even be impressed by it. Different strokes for different folks.

 

[surfgirl]

Date: 6/23/2007 11:31:20 AM
Author: angeline
well I was going to offer next a slice of Tarte Tatin...given your station in life

Angeline, is that Tarte Taffin I see there?!?

New User, you expressed my thoughts too. No umbrage here at all. I may be but a humble surf, but I can use them fancy words too, yanno...

And while I'm usually "anti-pie", I'd like to ask for a piece STAT. Thanks!

 

[canuk-gal]

No pies, no tartes, and no pave; but this one looks tasty and elegant to satifsy even the most discerning buyer/wearer.....

 

[boston_jeff]

Fanboy,

I would go with Leon (I did). But if I were you, I''d go with Taffin. I think that sums up this thread pretty well.

Best of luck.

Jeff

 

[angeline]

Date: 6/23/2007 12:50:11 PM
Author: surfgirl

Date: 6/23/2007 11:31:20 AM

Author: angeline

well I was going to offer next a slice of Tarte Tatin...given your station in life

Angeline, is that Tarte Taffin I see there?!?


New User, you expressed my thoughts too. No umbrage here at all. I may be but a humble surf, but I can use them fancy words too, yanno...


And while I''m usually ''anti-pie'', I''d like to ask for a piece STAT. Thanks!

 

[pyramid]

Date: 6/23/2007 12:01:17 PM
Author: Harriet
Fanboy may have irritated some people by asking the same question repeatedly. However, I don't understand why some have taken umbrage at his use 'bespoke.' The choice between that and 'custom' is a matter of semantics. Furthermore, I don't umderstand the similar reaction to his use of 'station in life.' Fanboy did preface it by 'fortunately.' Like it or not, some have more than others. Fanboy appears to have acknowledged that happenstance plays a role in socioeconomic disparities.

Ha ha maybe I am thick. However one time I was going to get a dress shortened and I went to this tailor in the city which looked sort of upclass because it was only a hem and I thought they would do it nice, I knew I would not at that time be able to afford a suit made by them. Anyway I left my dress came home and looked up the dictionary to see what the word on their window and on my receipt meant it was Bespoke. This was years ago and I didn't even know what it meant, I think I would have known custom though. So ha ha just goes to show. I now don't see it as any different than saying custom other than I feel it may be a more oldfashioned word. Mind you that tailor was a sort of upper class place so maybe it is posher than custom.

 

[Harriet]

Date: 6/23/2007 1:14:10 PM
Author: boston_jeff
Fanboy,

I would go with Leon (I did). But if I were you, I''d go with Taffin. I think that sums up this thread pretty well.

Best of luck.

Jeff

Agreed.

 

[Harriet]

Date: 6/23/2007 12:50:11 PM
Author: surfgirl


Angeline, is that Tarte Taffin I see there?!?

New User, you expressed my thoughts too. No umbrage here at all. I may be but a humble surf, but I can use them fancy words too, yanno...

And while I''m usually ''anti-pie'', I''d like to ask for a piece STAT. Thanks!

Good pun!

 

[risingsun]

I agree with the others. Go with Taffin and enjoy the process of having this ring designed for your GF.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Date: 6/23/2007 11:16:40 AM
Author: fanboy
Hey, I like pie. I wonder if I can have one made for me bespoke.

Lol!

Glad you are keeping your sense of humor through all this! I just really want to see the finished ring whoever makes it! Please come back with pictures for us!

 

[fanboy]

Date: 6/23/2007 1:31:49 PM
Author: Pyramid

However one time I was going to get a dress shortened and I went to this tailor in the city which looked sort of upclass because it was only a hem and I thought they would do it nice, I knew I would not at that time be able to afford a suit made by them. Anyway I left my dress came home and looked up the dictionary to see what the word on their window and on my receipt meant it was Bespoke. This was years ago and I didn't even know what it meant, I think I would have known custom though. So ha ha just goes to show. I now don't see it as any different than saying custom other than I feel it may be a more oldfashioned word. Mind you that tailor was a sort of upper class place so maybe it is posher than custom.

As technology and buying habits have changed over the decades, 'custom' has come to cover a wider breadth of services than 'bespoke', although they used to mean the same thing.

In the past, when something was made 'bespoke' or 'custom', it was done from scratch as according to the exacting needs of the client. For example, with suits, a tailor would take measurements, draw a pattern, cut the pattern from cloth, then sew it all together. However, modern technology and mass production has allowed other modes of custom production that incorporate pre-existing templates and features. So, with suits, you can now have something 'made-to-measure'. A 'made-to-measure' suit is one scaled up or down in different dimensions from a pre-existing template; the available features are delimited in advance (akin to the features available on a car). A made-to-measure suit is arguably 'custom', but falls short of what has traditionally been called 'bespoke'.

There is reason to distinguish between the two since they are both different levels of service. Typically, you expect to pay more for bespoke--given that the product is of equal quality. That being said, you can have poor bespoke, and excellent custom/made-to-measure. A lot depends on the specific producer.

When someone says 'custom', it can mean many things. When they say 'bespoke', they are more likely to be referring to a specific level of customization.

 

[neatfreak]

Fanboy,

I'm not going to get into the issues that have been raised over and over again by you or others. It's all been said numerous times and those things are NOT the issue at hand. You want to design it, end of story regardless of what we think. We've got it.



But, I will say again PLEASE just go with Taffin. It's obvious that you won't be happy unless you do. Now we in general here are a group of women who would spend our money another way (a bigger rock, another bauble, etc.) and just get a Leon. BUT that doesn't mean YOU shouldn't do what's best for YOU. And what's best for you here is to be "mind clean" about this ring, and I think Taffin is the only way to go for you. I think you'll always be slightly unhappy if you don't. And that's NOT a feeling you want to have about a piece of jewelry that your Fiancee will wear for the rest of her life and you will look at everyday.

Please pull the trigger on Taffin and bring plenty of pictures once it's done!!!

 

[diasurfer]

Wow, this has to be one of the most entertaining threads I''ve ever read. The breadth of viewpoints discussed herein has been most substantial.

Do we really need English vocabulary lessons, or are the differences more about British to American English? I had no idea what bespoke meant. First thing that comes up when I google bespoke is "Bespoke is usually a British English term for ...". Whiteflash makes the distinctions Fanboy mentions as "custom" and "semi-custom". I think bespoke sounds better.

I also googled Station in Life. The first thing that comes up is "Britain''s Prince Charles was embroiled in a class controversy on Thursday, a day after a note expressing his candid thoughts about people who try to rise above their station in life was made public." Too funny. You gotta be a Brit, yeah?

Not that it matters of course. I''m off for pie!

good luck on your ring dude! Hope she digs it!

 

[pyramid]

Date: 6/23/2007 3:03:01 PM
Author: diasurfer

Wow, this has to be one of the most entertaining threads I''ve ever read. The breadth of viewpoints discussed herein has been most substantial.

Do we really need English vocabulary lessons, or are the differences more about British to American English? I had no idea what bespoke meant. First thing that comes up when I google bespoke is ''Bespoke is usually a British English term for ...''. Whiteflash makes the distinctions Fanboy mentions as ''custom'' and ''semi-custom''. I think bespoke sounds better.

I also googled Station in Life. The first thing that comes up is ''Britain''s Prince Charles was embroiled in a class controversy on Thursday, a day after a note expressing his candid thoughts about people who try to rise above their station in life was made public.'' Too funny. You gotta be a Brit, yeah?

Not that it matters of course. I''m off for pie!

good luck on your ring dude! Hope she digs it!

Diasurfer, this is funny because I am the one who wrote I had to look up the dictionary to see what Bespoke meant and I am a Brit.

 

[pyramid]

Can I please have some lemon pie, I really feel I need it.

 

[pyramid]

Date: 6/23/2007 2:39:02 PM
Author: fanboy

Date: 6/23/2007 1:31:49 PM
Author: Pyramid

However one time I was going to get a dress shortened and I went to this tailor in the city which looked sort of upclass because it was only a hem and I thought they would do it nice, I knew I would not at that time be able to afford a suit made by them. Anyway I left my dress came home and looked up the dictionary to see what the word on their window and on my receipt meant it was Bespoke. This was years ago and I didn't even know what it meant, I think I would have known custom though. So ha ha just goes to show. I now don't see it as any different than saying custom other than I feel it may be a more oldfashioned word. Mind you that tailor was a sort of upper class place so maybe it is posher than custom.

As technology and buying habits have changed over the decades, 'custom' has come to cover a wider breadth of services than 'bespoke', although they used to mean the same thing.

In the past, when something was made 'bespoke' or 'custom', it was done from scratch as according to the exacting needs of the client. For example, with suits, a tailor would take measurements, draw a pattern, cut the pattern from cloth, then sew it all together. However, modern technology and mass production has allowed other modes of custom production that incorporate pre-existing templates and features. So, with suits, you can now have something 'made-to-measure'. A 'made-to-measure' suit is one scaled up or down in different dimensions from a pre-existing template; the available features are delimited in advance (akin to the features available on a car). A made-to-measure suit is arguably 'custom', but falls short of what has traditionally been called 'bespoke'.

There is reason to distinguish between the two since they are both different levels of service. Typically, you expect to pay more for bespoke--given that the product is of equal quality. That being said, you can have poor bespoke, and excellent custom/made-to-measure. A lot depends on the specific producer.

When someone says 'custom', it can mean many things. When they say 'bespoke', they are more likely to be referring to a specific level of customization.

Oh thanks Fanboy, I see now that Bespoke is better than Custom then or it should be depending on the quality.

I am not the type to make fun of posters opinions and what they are writing about, I think it is great that you are putting so much into this ring and really hope your girlfriend is happy with it and I am sure she will be because you know her and how much she values the sentiment maybe even above her own taste. Also you probably will get it right as you say you know her taste.

I am only asking for pie to join in and not as a slight against anyone. I know that pie is used to diffuse a situation or have a break like in the workplace but sometimes I feel if I was the main poster in a thread and people were going on about pie I would feel sort of ganged up upon. Maybe it is the Brit in me that I do not see it the way you all do but sometimes although funny to us who are reading it I feel bad for a poster if it is just against one not so bad if it is against a few.